I voted for Reagan ..... twice. You got a problem with that? (sorta long)

[Stinky The Clown]

I voted for Reagan .... twice. You got a problem with that?

Let’s talk .........

I voted twice for Nixon, too. I also voted for Johnson. And Carter, but only once. For Bush 1, but again, only once; he lost me when he gave that speech at his convention tossing out gays and pandering to the religious right. I voted for Clinton twice, and once for Gore. I voted for Kerry and did work on his behalf. My voting record’s a mixed bag.

My personal principles are not.

I’m 58 years old. I’m a Navy veteran. I’m married, divorced and remarried. I have two sons and a step daughter.

I work hard for a living and I pay taxes. I’m a business owner. I’ve two degrees and I am able to think for myself. I’ve never discriminated and my first girlfriend was of a different color and race. I use the term ‘fuck you’ ..... a lot. I don’t suffer fools well.

I was raised Catholic but lapsed decades ago. I remain spiritual and consider myself a good person. I laugh a lot. Its healthy. I’m in an industry that many associate with the gay community. Gay men have always been among my personal friends.

In high school I was enamored of the John Birch Society. I also studied UFOlogy and believed there could be aliens out there; maybe I still do. I read all fourteen volumes of Samuel Elliott Morrison’s Naval History of World War II just because I wanted to. I grew up with a picture of FDR in the house and I cried like a baby the day Kennedy was killed. I was always socially liberal. But when I got out of the Navy I had a fist fight with my brother – in front of my mother – on the day I arrived home because he was antiwar and anti military. I loved him then and I love him now, except for the fact that he now criticizes *me* for being a left wing nut. I voted for Jesse Helms when he first ran for the Senate. That same year I drove my first wife to a clinic to have an abortion.

I am fiscally responsible and expect my government to be the same. I also believe in spending whatever it takes to do what’s right.

I'm ethical to a fault. Ask people who've worked with me. I'm a real pain in the ass - and proud of that.

I was a registered Republican until the day they read out the articles of impeachment against Clinton. On that very day I went down to the County offices and changed my registration. I have a copy of a fax I sent to my (then) Congressman, Roscoe Bartlett (R-Insane Motherfucker) telling him to vote against impeachment; it proudly hangs in my office.

I was on the streets of DC cheering loudly on the day of Clinton’s first inauguration. I’ve shaken Hillary Clinton’s hand and wished her all the very best in her Senate run on the day I marched with my wife and stepdaughter in the Million Mom March (that was my stepdaughter's and my Mother's Day gift to my wife).

I believe with all my soul that Viet Nam was a mistake. I am fully and unflinchingly a supporter of our warriors. I am fully and unflinchingly a questioner of our policy makers. I separate the two. I believe our country has enemies and needs to defend herself. I believe our War in Iraq(tm-bushco) is criminal and we have violated every rule of humanity in being there.

I’ve done pro bono work for socially liberal organizations for well over 20 years. That work has real market value in excess of $30,000 (and counting because I am still actively doing it). I donate to NOW. My business partners are women. My doctor's a woman. My lawyer's a woman. My dentist is a woman.

I love my wife and I don't cheat. Prostitution is an acceptable occupation and the War on Drugs is ludicrous. Religious fanaticism is at the root of almost all the evil in the world. It is the root cause of most wars. When I pray it is quiet and between me and God. If you invite me to your son's wedding that will be presided over by a Wiccan, I'll be there.

I knew who I was, but I didn't understand those who were on the same side of politics as I thought I was. I used to be conflicted.

Now I’m not.

I haven’t been for years.

Now I’m a Democrat.

You got a problem with that?

(on edit ... I voted for Johnson ... in a high school poll. I was too young to have actually voted for him)

[roguevalley]

1. No, sweetie. Life is about change. I have no problems with those

who have the guts to keep growing. Its those who see the difference and don't care that I have a problem with. Welcome aboard from a lifelong die-hard dem. You are an inspiration because change is the hardest thing you can do. Clarity is a good thing. :hug:

[Robeysays]

27. i love your dogs, i have two burt winners

the black and tan ones, one is fat and the other is skinny and long. they look like the dauchound verion albert and castello.

[roguevalley]

37. I have five dachsies, that is, I have four with the one in the pictures

sitting up and laying on his side just passed away in March. SNIFFLE!
I love dachsies. They love you more than they love living.

[Deaniac20]

2. I'm glad you saw the light

and hope you see the errors in some of your former ways. If not for Reagan, Bush would have never had a shot at becoming president. He is Reagan times 2 on everything: a wreckless foreign policy, tax cuts for the rich, attacks on the working and middle class, and bigot social policies. But the scripture preaches forgiveness, so all i can say is just don't make those mistakes again.

[Stinky The Clown]

6. "hope you see the errors in some of your former ways"

No lectures ... k?

[Kerrytravelers]

3. My husband is a recovering rethug.

He was raised in a fundy home by fruitcakes who told us, in an email (how brave) that by not coting for *, we had no morals, no values and they felt sorry for us.

My husband is so far left now.

Growing and changing is great. Voting for * is not great. Glad you picked the side of the angels!

[Worst Username Ever]

4. Loved it, but I have to ask,

if you feel the way you say you do, how did you decide on a vote for Reagan? Twice? Doesn't seem like he supported much of the things you feel so strongly about, other than maybe pro-military. But I gotta say, your own post summed up my feelings as well. Well said.

[Stinky The Clown]

5. Good question .... semi shitty answer ...... but its true .....

St Ronnie was a gifted yakker. He sold happiness (never, of course, telling us the cost!). At that time of my life I was in "hard charging young achiever" mode and had just been made a VP at the company I used to work for.

Quite simply ... its what my (work) peers were doing. And, given that (in my own mind) I was on an 'upward' track personally, I simply wasn't paying attention. Sorta the same with my vote for Poppy ... a continuation of the Reagan years in my mind .... "Be Happy .... Don't Worry".

That seems a lifetime ago.

[Worst Username Ever]

8. No, I think that is a perfectly acceptable answer.

And in fact, I think it is the reason a lot of republicans vote the way they do... they were sold some image of happiness or security or whatever. It is up to them to figure out if it is true or not. We sure are glad to have you with us now! :hi: ALso, thanks for your service!

[sendero]

41. I also voted for Reagan twice.....

.... I didn't really "get" it until Iran-Contra. Sometime around 1986, I went from being a Republican to being a Democrat.

But I'm going to say something now that might not sit well with many here, and I apologize in advance for that.

I think Jimmy Carter is a fine man, probably the ex-president of my lifetime I respect the most. But he, and the left in general, were going off the tracks in the late 70s the same way the right is going off now.

Any time either side thinks it has all the answers, any time there is too much power consolidated on either side, excesses will result.

I fully believe that the current right-wing resurgence we are seeing right now is a long delayed and building reaction to cultural changes that, although I agree with 90% of them, came too fast for many to swallow. And along with the good changes came a lot of bullshit that we are still sorting out.

The right has done a stellar job of exploiting this. Any time you "tell" a man what is right without "convincing" him of it, and then expect him to go along, well you will probably not see a happy result.

In re-reading what I've said I realize its pretty muddled. If you understand it, great. If not, let me apologize again :)

[Stinky The Clown]

46. I understand it ... and I pretty much agree .... and as to Jimmy Carter ..

.... a great man at the wrong time. His entire presidency was shitstorm followed by shitstorm.

But he's still a great man. And one of the marks of that greatness is how he conducted himself then and now ... always the consummate gentleman and the consummate caring person. I love the guy.

[Justitia]

7. Not even a little bit!

You sound like a really great guy, would be more than pleased to be in your circle of friends.

Nothing is more impressive to me than someone who never lets up on self-examination, refinement of thought and doesn't lie to themselves. This usually means re-adjustment of position thru life - at least it does for me.

I've been wrong in thought and deed, and taken those lessons to heart. It makes me stronger in the convictions I've arrived at today.

Glad to have ya on our team.

Confession:

I voted for GHWBush (Sr) - only Rep president ever, and only because it was my first vote out of the box at 18, and I was stupid and from TX. All the ensuing scandals opened my innocent eyes real quick and I will always feel the shame of that first vote - keeps me honest!

[kellenburger]

9. Democracy:

NOUN:

Government by the people, exercised either directly or through elected representatives.
A political or social unit that has such a government.
The common people, considered as the primary source of political power.
Majority rule.
The principles of social equality and respect for the individual within a community.

Contrary to the version that Bush is exporting, you have the right to vote however you feel. Whether anyone on the D.U. boards "has a problem" with it or not, at least you voted.

Maybe I'm just a liberal idealist but the best way for a democracy to function is to have an intelligent dialog about issues and the problems that, as a society we all share.

[B Calm]

12. Welcome to DU kellenburger

[Nothing Without Hope]

82. Welcome to DU, kellenburger! Hope to see you again here

Always a pleasure to see someone just starting out here :hi:

I've only been here half a year or so myself, so don't feel intimidated by all those high post numbers. Lots of us lurked for a while and finally made the plunge around the time of the stolen 2004 election.

[nothingshocksmeanymore]

10. Yes, I have a problem with it

YOu are free to vote for whomever you wish, but Reagan's first run was a complete manipulation since he KILLED the economy in California then RAN on the economy.

His second run was AFTER the war in Latin America started and the injustices there were well known.

Anyone even the LEAST bit politically aware, knew that Nixon targetted the south to appeal to racists.

I don't have time for a long post, but I could just as easily fill the pages with what you SHOULD HAVE KNOWN and reasons why the opponents were better choices whether we are talking Humphrey or Dukakis.

I might futher add that Reagan was the beginning of the anti-consumer, privatize EVERYTHING revolution. His breaking up of the bells did not cause phone bills to go down..what caused phone bills to go down was the fact that you and I financed satellite technology via the space program and then all that technology was transferred out of the public hands into the hands of private industry.

I get real sick of people who awoken later acting as though their vote for Reagan was benign when in fact, if it weren't for Reagan, Bush would not have some measuring stick on which to claim his failures are successes.

That said, I do respect you H2S...I just got a problem with a vote for Reagan, Nixon or Bush as though it's all the past...it isn't...

[Stinky The Clown]

11. Actually, it is in the past.

It can't be undone. It might be overcome, but it can't be undone.

What would you have done with/to former Reagan voters? (This isn't a rhetorical question. I actually would like to hear your answer.)

My positions now are fully suportive of the Democratic agenda ... the progressive wing of the Democrats. But maybe I ought to just .... what? Not vote? Not speak my mind?

[noiretextatique]

13. nothing could have been done

the reagan revolution wasn't about any of the things nsma mentioned, it was about...something else. perhaps you can enlighten me as to what it was. i ask because whatever it was, it seems similar to the occupant's appeal to some. perhaps you have some insight as to how to overcome...and undo.

[nothingshocksmeanymore]

14. Nah, you can vote and speak your mind..viva la difference

I was actually too busy working on state politics during the Reagan years to formulate what I WOULD have done...of course the reason I was working on state politics was because during the Reagan years was when the state's rights mantra began which was part of the history of union busting i.e. right to work laws..along with PATCO of course...so you are correct..it's the past

I'll just never give the seal of approval to a Reagan vote...it's against my better judgement....it doesn't mean I pass any judgement on you personally.

[Stinky The Clown]

22. The vote was a bad one .... my intent was to ask if ......

.... in a sense, not literally ..... former Reagan voters are welcome in the Democrat party today. I suspect they are .... and not only welcomed, but embraced .... and not because they voted for Reagan, but in spite of that fact. They're welcomed for who they are ... today.

At least I'd like to think so. (Please read my other responses in this thread if you have the time. Thanks! :) )

[Inland]

72. One would hope Reagan voters would be welcomed

Since there were so many of them, for one, and because many were traditional dem voters, for two.

So welcome. The penalty--I get to say "told you so" even though I didn't even know you twenty years ago.

Reagan's message (or con) was that voting for him was voting for religion and patriotism defense and toughness. What it really was was a vote for prejudice and self righteousness, defense spending and deficits, and a meanspirit towards the weaker masquerading as toughness. Sound familiar? Bush sees himself as perfecting Reagan--Reagan without the moderation.

Reagan is only viewed with any type of tolerance because Clinton saved us from half the crap Reagan started rolling down the hill at us. Bush picks up where Reagan left off--to perfect the revolution and kill the country.

[hfojvt]

16. ought not to assert that it is not a problem

I voted for Reagan once and wish that I had not, so I have a problem with it.

[Stinky The Clown]

21. I am not saying I'm proud of those votes ... or that I'm flaunting them

My real point was in challenging the seemingly growing notion of a litmus test (as said by me, downthread, in the "Groucho" post).

My thread was titled the way it was as much to startle as to engage in discussion. My sentiment, however, is honest and my intent sincere.

I will put my Democrat bona fides against anyone's. I can't and won't stand the comparison if time-in-party is the issue. But for positions ... I'll play the hand I'm holding against anyone. I may not always agree with (the rhetorical) you, but I'll bet my last nickel we're no more than a hair's breadth apart on 95% of the issues.

[GoBlue]

71. Can you just say you're sorry and get over it..

[porkrind]

69. Glad you have seen the light,

But I hope you aren't looking to DU'ers to tell you that being a Bircher and Reagan supporter was a valid position. Also, I disagree with you about Carter. Carter was a great president, IMHO, just demonized and hampered by the right. I also think you are wrong that Democrats were over-reaching in the 70's.

[Clarkie1]

25. It is in the past. Get over it. n/t

[nothingshocksmeanymore]

63. thankyou for sharing n/t

[LdyGuique]

15. This is a good demonstration of what it means to be a

participant in the modern world. It's complex. Issues change and evolve but ethics don't. I get really tired of litmus tests evoked in here (and there are similar ones over in freeper land). We're supposed to be independent self-evolving creatures, not mirror images of each other. Each of us makes decisions about voting based on primary reasons at the time -- we don't share which issues ARE primary to each person.

My reasons for issues are MY reasons -- not because of someone else's perception of what they might be. Yours are yours. You seem to be the kind of man I would like in real life and probably argue with on occasion. :)

[Stinky The Clown]

18. Like the old Groucho "You Bet Your Life" show, you said the magic word!

Ding Ding Ding ...... 'litmus test' was the magic 'woid'.

I can only state that I am as much a mainstream progressive Democrat as anyone. The truth of that statement, however, unless you know me, has to be taken on faith. If we can stipulate that it is, in fact, true, then why would anyone want to litmus test a potential strong ally? My vote counts. My views matter. My positions support (the rhetorical) you. My movement to this position was long and steady and considered. It isn't a fair weather alliance. And if it were, why the *hell* would I chose to be a Democrat?!?!? One thing I am *not* is a masochist! :)

[LdyGuique]

24. LOL -- I have a similar path of arriving at decisions BUT

I always drew the line at voting Republican :) Well, except for one time when Paul McCarthy was in the fight of his life in San Mateo County and Shirley Temple Black was running against him in the primary -- I switched to Republican just to vote for him.

I've written in a candidate or two just because I could not accept "none of the above."

[pretzel4gore]

17. you shouldn't have voted for reagan.....

even during the 60's 70's, the establishment, the 'powers that be' the 'ruling elite' or whatever we choose to call them had their nasty selfish lies reflected throughout the mass media.....everyone forgets, but the media supported that war in viet nam, they loved nixon (comparatively, to the weather underground or black panthers)and cheered the other side from the 'counterculture' of the youthful hippie generation that we belonged to!....the politically aware among the 'hippies' were always a very distinct minority (as history proves with all the creepy 'baby boomers' driving suv's and voting for bushwack!)...the media has always been radical rightwing, devoted to privitizing all wealth for the few and making the public fund their extravagannces, like war and corruption and exploitation and so on.....hell anyone notice that the space program basically died with nixon? Maybe you voted for reagan for what seemed honourable reasons but...i recall someone saying, on the night reagan was selected (with less then 37 % of electorate) that 'there goes medicare' and unemployment insurance and today medicare is pretty well doomed.....by letting the media pigs lie reagan into office (the guy bragged that he never read a book cover to cover!) the reagan voters made geebush inevitable. And geebush inc has committed so many crimes they have no choice but to rule forever, and to put it bluntly, they're even more incompetent then reagan (who more then doubled that national debt in 8 years) was!

[Stinky The Clown]

20. "you voted for reagan for what seemed honourable reasons"

Actually, if you just go upthread, I say my reason for voting for him ... and describe it as "shitty" ... but it happened and I own it and I am where I am ... now ... right here in Realityville

[pretzel4gore]

28. it's not you Husb2Sparkly....

if there's anger, or negativity in my post, i mean the mass media, who KNEW long long ago that reagan and the rightwing were the true extremists in US/western politics, and by granting their extremism equal standing with the hard fought gains that liberalism has given people they devalued the currency...and they kept on devaluing it so that today torture is actually argued about as a national policy! You were too busy (i recall thomas aquinas explaining the importance of theologists by saying that the ordinary people were too busy making a living to think about theology, and it needed alot of thinking about for their sake; the same can be said about politics!) to follow all the threads and connect all the dots and see through all the lies that reagan's backers worked into the national consciousness over the years, to their ultimate benefit. Many guys in your position say 'fukkit' and press on w/out worrying about the fallout, and you should be complimented for not doing that....
btw attacking the 'mediawhores' and not the 'media' is important: if you listen to AAR they were discussing (Eric Alterman was, i believe) that the destruction of the media as an effective part of the social order by turning it into Foxnews etc isn't an accident.....the busheviks think that 'the people' need only be stroked, and the important things will be arranged for them- if they distrust the media, that's a good thing....as it's none of the public's business!

[Stinky The Clown]

34. I hadda chuckle at this ......

I was actually self-flagellating there!

The hell of it is, I *knew* - even back then - what was going on. I just wasn't paying attention. I was self-absorbed in living my life. Your Thomas Aquinas quote, which I recall from my Catholic HS days, is spot on. I was too busy.

That's a reason.

Not an excuse.

But thanks for working with me on this ;) No need for you to feel like I felt offended by your reply. I offended myowndamnself!

(ps: wanna pull my finger? :) )

[lyonn]

58. I was raising teens in the "70.s"

Do you have any idea how hard that was!! They were free spirits, good kids but... I voted for Reagan as I believed he spoke with sincere conviction (yeah) and wanted smaller govt. and would help the image of America in the world after the Iran situation. Well, I was sooo wrong. And to make matters worse I came to realise he was mentally unfit in the later years for the job. My best friend was a Dem. and she put up with my logic at the time. If only I had paid attention to her since she was constantly reading political books and got politically involved. Actually, I had a problem with Dems back then as they came off as wishy washy. What I didn't realise was they meant what they said. That is why Dean was so attractive, he was outspoken and believable, he could win over the doubters.
Edit: Reagan did such a number on our economy that sunk banks and big business, and exposed the dirty dealing of that whole administraation, rights were going down the drain. All it would have taken for me to see things better was to pay attention. I got hit on the head after Reagan. I did vote for Kennedy, Johnson (now he is partly responsible for my switching to Repub, hated the viet nam war from day one.)

[TwentyFive]

19. Great Post!

You're one of the reasons I'm addicted to DU. This would a very boring site if we were all cookie cutter versions of each other.

My first 3 presidential votes were for Reagan twice and Bush. With all the rhetoric of 'morning in America' and 'shining city on a hill' it was easy to get zoned out on these empty slogans. Meanwhile, federal deficits piled up and social/environmental problems were swept under the rug. I was feeling uneasy about these things....they just kept getting worse.

I guess what REALLY woke me up was Bill Clinton. I thought he blew away Bush in the '92 debates....he was so much more in tune with Americans and what needed to be done to keep us competitive in the world. He fixed (or tried to fix) many of the growing problems....job losses, racial tensions, getting people on the fringes of society on their feet, environment & healthcare, protecting social liberties.

By any objective measure, Clinton was a great president. He solved problems the neo-cons have absolutely no interest in....reducing crime, increasing education, encouraging tolerance of differences between us, raising the standard of living for the middle class.

I agree 100% with you on the impeachment. When the republicans tried to bring Clinton down with Ken Starr and all the trumped up charges...it proved to me they never gave a rat's ass about America. All the republicans care about is getting into power....regardless of how much our nation will suffer.

So, I make no apologies for my political evolution.

[Clarkie1]

23. Great thread. Thanks for sharing!

:thumbsup:

[ronnykmarshall]

26. Kicked and recommend!

Great story! :yourock:

[wyldwolf]

29. you're a democrat

don't let anyone tell you any differently. There are those here who will.

[AP]

30. Would you run for president on the argument that you voted for Helms...

...Nixon and Reagan, was a Birch'er and UFO-ologist, but it took the impeachment for you to change your mind about Republicans?

[Stinky The Clown]

36. Please reread all that I said before you ask that question

Clinton's impeachment was no Epiphany for me. My views - particularly my social views - are of very long standing. My fascination with the John Birch society ended with my high school career.

Would I run for president? Sure. But not on that basis. I'd run for what I've believed in and stood for all my life.

.... 'course, like most anyone, I gotta few of these to worry about .... yanno?



edited for shitty spelling

[AP]

48. You had those "social" beliefs when you were voting R, right?

It seems like it was the impeachment which finally got you to see that voting Democratic made sense.

If you ran for president I think there's about 1/3rd of the population which would wonder what you were thinking when you were voting R before 1998 and might not trust your your conviction to Democratic principles.

[Stinky The Clown]

59. The opposite of Forrest Gump - Life is NOT like a box of choc or a tea bag

One doesn''t need ideological 'steeping' to hold one's beliefs. And it almost seems as if you're parsing my words to make some point.

My beliefs are mine. I grew 'em. I own 'em. They're long held. And since it seems you've parsed my words, maybe I can do the same. Lemme try .....

From my original post: and my first girlfriend was of a different color and race ... this was in early high school. I'm white. She was black. I can still remember her name. (i.e.: long held social value)

Also from my original post: Gay men have always been among my personal friends including a boy in high school who I only found out years later was gay. We're still friends. (i.e.: long held social value)

More from my original post: I’ve done pro bono work for socially liberal organizations for well over 20 years would be kinda before Clinton, n'est pas? (i.e.: long held social value)

I think I know where you're going with this. Please know: Homey don' play dat .... and the fact is, Homey never has and ain't startin' now.

[AP]

64. Not being a racist or homophobic is something I expect from most

people on the right. It's not a threshold quality for being liberal. It's a threshold quality for being human.

[CBHagman]

31. Your description of Roscoe Bartlett...

...brought me joy on a stressful evening. :loveya:

And boy, was that an accurate description!

[Stinky The Clown]

38. Ha! Who says Maryland's all blue, huuh?

We're kinda more



yanno?

[Solly Mack]

32. 500 lashes with a wet noodle for each Nixon vote

1000 lashes with a wet noodle for each Reagan vote
and 10,000 lashes with a wet noodle for the Bush vote (just seems a person ought to be noodled longer for a Bush vote)

Now go and GOP no more.

[Stinky The Clown]

39. Yanno, of all my 'red' votes, I regret Nixon the least

Now, I'm not condoning the guy ... but he had his upside too.

Not so bad on the environment.

The China thing.

Not so bad.

The plumbers ... the southern strategy ..... 'not a crook' .....

Not so good.

On second thought ... he wasn't a good guy, was he?

[Solly Mack]

40. Get busy noodling!

and pictures...we want pictures!

[Stinky The Clown]

44. Soba noodles ... maybe some fettucini ....

mmmmm-MMM :)

[ourbluenation]

33. No Way! I love you and I love America

thank you for getting off your ass and voting, which is more than you can say for a large chunk of americans.

viva la difference...

[DoveTurnedHawk]

35. You Rock, Husb

I'm glad you're on my side.

DTH

[WildEyedLiberal]

42. Sorta reminds me of my dad

He grew up the son of a tenant farmer, one of nine, old-school rural farming Republicans. He voted for Nixon, and maybe Reagan - the first time. I am pretty sure he didn't vote for Reagan again, though, because he's a union man - UAW for 40 years, and he saw what Reagan was doing to the unions. He voted for Perot in '92 (the only anti-NAFTA candidate), and Gore and Kerry. He HATES Bush with a passion. He likes to call himself independent, but the way the Republican party has been going, it'll be a long, long time before he ever votes for one again- if he ever does/

[tabasco]

43. I wish more people had your moral courage.

Too many people are too stubborn or cowardly to admit mistakes.

I know republicans who will not admit to being Bush supporters, but vote for him and refuse to support other candidates. These people were outraged when Dan Rather told the truth about Bush, but happily believed the swift boat liars. These people know the diffeence between right and wrong, but are too cowardly to take a stand and admit a mistake.

I am always impressed by those who display moral courage and I hope I would do the same if it was Democrats fucking up the country.

[bpilgrim]

45. America has a problem with that

but times are a changing... welcome aboard shipmate :toast:

peace

[Stinky The Clown]

50. Thanks brother!

Wooden Ships and Iron Men


R.I.P ... USS Adroit - MSO 509

[Disturbed]

57. Most of us make mistakes.

Even I have. Some people still say that I should not have joined the Green Party. hehe

This is the Democratic Underground btw, not the Democratic Party.

I am glad that this topic was brought up. It has been interesting and educational.

Thanks

[ArchTeryx]

47. You know...

Politicians may not be allowed to run away from their pasts, but that doesn't mean that it's a sin to evolve and change your mind and LEARN from your past.

I used to be a rock-ribbed Reagan Republican myself. It was my first friendship with a gay person that permanently cracked that. What finally destroyed it was spending a stint in the Clinton years with no health insurance -- and very nearly dying from an untreated ulcer. I still suffer the consequences of that. It made me alot more politically active, and once I started looking at the issues, I knew exactly where my principles stood.

Hats off to you, sir.

-- ArchTeryx

[dhinojosa]

49. Yeah, but....

tell us how you really feel.

[Stinky The Clown]

54. To quote St. Ronnie .... 'weeeeeeeeeell, Mommie .... "

;)

[spooky3]

51. Please tell us where we can find more like you!

[Stinky The Clown]

53. There's a shitload of 'em .... but they need conversion. They were called

Reagan Democrats .... now they're called Republicans.

[spooky3]

52. self-delete-computer burp

[Stinky The Clown]

60. ::::sniff sniff:::::

You sure that was a burp? :)

[Geek_Girl]

55. I wish every American was like you

:)

[bridgit]

56. yeah, and in civics class i picked Polaroid @ 6.25...

what the hell does that have to do with anything :shrug:

[Sparkly]

61. I never voted for a Republican for anything, ever.

The only person I ever voted for who made it to the White House was Clinton. And I am no more of a Democrat than H2S is -- not in terms of what I believe nor in how strongly I believe it.

Two points about that: First, we need the votes of people who voted for the Chimp in order to win by an unstealable margin. Second, I have a harder time understanding what on earth they're thinking than H2S does. Since I was born and raised a liberal Democrat, I don't easily get the "other side," and never did. I think H2S has thought it through more than me.

One other point: the whole country has shifted right, across the board. Much as I cried in frustration and disbelief that so many people voted for Reagan and Poppy, even they were not like what we're seeing today. This is the nightmare I feared when I saw their fiscal policies combined with anti-rights and rightwing religious groups -- all coming to fruition, faster and more tragically than I could have imagined. Reagan and Poppy seem like sane liberals compared to this cabal.

There was an array of reasons people voted for them (and part of that probably did have to do with the Democratic party as well, as someone noted above). But 'centrists' then are now either voting for radical rightwingers or they are liberal Democrats, because of that rightward shift from where we were then, and the deep division we've got now.

[daydreamer]

62. I am still a conservative

But Bush is not a real conservative. I would liked his tax cut if it did not come from borrowing from our future. Republicans only talk about small government, but Clinton actually reduced the size of government. Bush is a Texas borrow and spend hypocrite.

[seabeyond]

65. i love you, what a man, or a girlie man anyway, per arnie, lol

ah that is a wonderful story and you told it so well. truly, i enjoyed the read.

[tallahasseedem]

66. Bravo!!!

wonderful post.

[BrendaStarr]

67. Hey, I adored Ayn Rand in high school, LOL

So I totally understand.

[Festivito]

68. Strong, but easily swayed. A not unusual combo.

I hope you continue to learn how to see clearly, and to react with appropriate speed.

For some one year of Reagan taught enough to avoid him and Bush. That's me.

Some realize it sooner, some later, some not at all ... yet, they vote.

The timing has little import. The important question is how does one reach someone like yourself? How do we differentiate between the chngeable and those not worth the time?

[burrowowl]

70. Pax vobiscum!

Your sins are forgiven you.
It is too bad Raygun got elected not only once but twice. This has set the stage to where we are now. I was in Europe at the time. It wasn't until I came back in 1994 and also saw the paeans to Raygun on TV at his death that I realized how much and how long brainwashing and the destruction of the public school system have been going on (I left for Europe in 1974 and with Nixon's impeachment, the soon to end VN war and then from Europe reading under the Carter Administration that covert action and crimes were being reined in ....).
Sic transit gloria mundi.

[SmokingJacket]

73. No, you're an interesting, complex person.

But I still think you should have voted for Carter in 1980. ;-)

[ProfessorGAC]

74. A Little Problem, Yes

Nothing earth shattering, and welcome back to the fold of thinking, caring voters.

But, i only have an issue with your history because i can say, without any fear of contradiction, that i have NEVER drunk the Koolaid.

I knew Reagan was a lying buffon surrounded by know-nothing/know-it-alls, who were focused solely on their individual success. I knew it then, and i was right! I knew the economic plan was a short term fix that would create far more problems than it solved. I knew he was anti-labor and a frightened little twit with an unreasonable fear of communism. (There was never anything to fear about communism. It was NEVER going to take over the world. Only the firghtened or the braindead ever believed that.)

He was an empty suit, and so is Li'l Georgie. I knew that early on about both of them, and again, i was right.

While i'm glad you have taken on a much more progressive mindset, and see the ills in our gov't today, i'm still a little concerned that folks like you (in general) voted for Ronnie because you were an "up and comer". That means you voted for someone you should have known was going to be generally poor for the country because you would personal benefit.

It seems, from your post, that you are capable of so much deeper thought than that. Apparently, at the time, you disengaged your brain and voted solely in your own interest. So, yeah, i have a little problem with that. But only a small one.
The Professor

[Stinky The Clown]

76. Thanks for a thoughtful reply

(No that wasn't snarky ... I sincerely thank you for a thoughtful reply.)

My path to where I am today is mine and mine alone. You're right when you say I voted for a self interested reason. No argument there. But it is also not quite that simple. It was self-interested ... but it was also shallow and thoughtless. And as I said elsewhere in this thread, that's a reason, but not an excuse. At that point in my life I just wasn't thinking about politics .... and from that it is fair to conclude I wasn't thinking about others. I just want to say that. My vote wasn't callously self-interested, it was mindlessly self-interested. I consider that part of my life a transitional period. And you're quite right where you say: 'Apparently, at the time, you disengaged your brain and voted solely in your own interest'. Yup, I did. I'm not proud of that. But neither am I ashamed of it. It simply 'is'.

When I was young - like back to my high school days - I was quite interested in politics. I was reasoned about it, too. Faulty reason, probably - the flawed reasoning of youth, perhaps - but reasoned none the less. At that point, I was a conservative. In the zeal of youthful thinking, that conservative core went to the extreme - John Birch type thinking (no, I never joined that ... was just interested in what it was about). That ultra conservatism softened over the years. By the time Reagan was around, I guess I was, politically speaking, at the top of the parabola ... the weightless place before one moves to the opposite leg of the parabola. As much as my vote for him was self-interested, so was it largely intertial.

In fact, what concerns me today may be how far to left I'm capable of going. I've been a 'reasoned' liberal since at least the time of my first Clinton vote. I was certainly liberal before that, but wasn't paying attention to myself. Also, hidden perhaps, in my original post is the fact that I was conflicted, even way back to high school, between my liberal social views and my otherwise conservative mindset. At this point in my life, I honestly can't say what good I saw in conservatism .... and maybe that's why I never really was. I was more likely self deluded and uniformed. Not as deep a thinker as I'd liked to think I was, back then. These days, I'm far more likely to err on the side of being more to the left rather than reigning myself in. But on balance, I'm also far more mature, so maybe its one of those fears for which there's no basis in fact.

Sorta like that fear of communism you mentioned ... that was a big part of it with respect to why I acted from a conservative viewpoint. I saw, back then, the liberals as being soft on communism. I abandoned - or at least ignored - my own liberal social views in favor of the "tough on communism" perspective.

In the end, I suspect I'm not at all different from many others in this country - probably in the world - who hold views now that are quite different from what they once held. Just look at who the neocons were 'way back when'! Many of them were my political opposites back then. Liberal in their youth and ultra conservative now. Hell, just look at Saint Ronnie ..... former union leader and former Democrat!

Then there's the whole issue of the ever rightward shift of the political spectrum. There are many out there who hold long standing views. Once Republican, they're now, at least philosophically, squarely on the left side of the continuum. I'll risk some broad generalizations about them: They're fiscal conservatives, appalled at what's been done to out economy. They want smaller government and can't believe the bloat we're seeing. They're socially liberal and looking for a far more welcoming home than the Republican party. They're strong on defense, but appalled at using our national might to bully.

In the end, I made this post as much or more to make a point as to speak about who *I* am. Who I am is really exceedingly unimportant. I simply am willing to use my own experience as an example. An example of the many current Democrats who came to the party - and more importantly, to the liberal viewpoint - later in life. Their paths may be somewhat different. They may have gotten here gradually or they may have had a single day of epiphany. But they're (we're) here. And we're on (the rhetorical) your side. Four square on your side. I am not asking for forgiveness. I am asking for full acceptance as Democrat. 'We're' asking for full acceptance as a Democrat.

(This is to a larger audience than just you: ) Acknowledging that would go a goodly way toward welcoming back to the fold all those Reagan Democrats who are now reliable Republican voters. Telling us we're not worthy of being a "full Democrat" won't win us back. Telling us we don't pass some litmus test won't win us back. Lecturing us on the error of our ways won't win us back.

As for me .... I'm here because I choose to be. And I ain't leavin'

[DanCa]

75. Thank you for your service

Husb2sparkly I wanted to thank you for our service to our country.
Your post was truly amazing please continue to write

[BiggJawn]

77. you evolved. Now, if you said "I voted for RR twice and I'm PROUD!"

Well...
And no, I WON'T pull your finger. Nor His...

[Stinky The Clown]

80. Pride .......

I'm not proud of it. But neither am I ashamed or running from it. It is part of the sum of who I am as a man and a person.

And I love that picture!

[Cobalt Violet]

78. Reagan hurt alot of us.

[Stinky The Clown]

81. Indeed he did.

And if I had been more careful when I voted for him, I wouldn't have. But I did and I am too honest to run from that.

[lala_rawraw]

79. I don't have a problem with that at all

In my opinion, it is never too late to come over from the dark side:) Welcome and make yourself at home.

[Nothing Without Hope]

83. Your post helps me keep my hope going. You represent the backbone of

the country. You saw enough to change your mind and despite people who pushed against it and the pain of turning away from the faux happy-face world of Reaganism, you are turning your strength to join in taking this country back for the rule of the people and of law.

Bravo! You sound like someone I'd like very much. No, I have no problem at all with that. I think young people often tend to be vulnerable to conservative talking points. Hence Young Republicans. Thank goodness at least SOME of them grow up.
:toast:

[Unions]

84. Like Clark, yes

I have a problem with it. When someone votes for such people it speaks volumes about them. Countless people were hurt (and killed) or otherwise had lives ruined due to the people you voted for. That can't be taken back.

[Stinky The Clown]

85. Should I slit my wrist? Go back to the other side? Am I not welcome here?

You speak in absolutes. I wish everyone were so perfectly thought out.

And where did the name 'Clark' come in? This post is not about him and I won't address that. So far this post has been a discussion ... and generally mutually respectful.

[Unions]

86. Please cut the drama

People should be accountable to their votes. I can understand those who were naive and young when they voted. But over and over again multiple elections? I would be a hypocrite for condemning congress people for their votes, but giving the ones who vote for them a free pass.

I bring up clark because he also voted republican multiple times. He's a smart person and should have known better.

Such votes speak volumes about a persons true feelings.

[Stinky The Clown]

88. And absolutism speaks volumes about the openness of one's mind

The drama was intended .... as was the provocative nature of the title of my original post.

But you failed to answer the three questions I posed (no, they weren't rhetorical).

1: Should I slit my wrist?

2: Should I go back to the other side?

3: Am I not welcome here (meaning on the left side of the dial, not DU)?

And I'll add a fourth .....

4: What would *you* have me do?

[Unions]

94. I'm glad you've seen the light

Yet the fact remains people should be accountable for their votes. I'm glad you've done things differently now and that's a good thing.

I don't know what else to tell you except stay on the right track.

[T Town Jake]

91. Please cut the snarky bullshit...

...and learn some manners.

[Unions]

92. I'm sure it's nice to sit around the keyboard

and be forgiven from people who really can't even forgive you.

Take a twice bush voter for example. Am I in any position to forgive him? No of course not. Maybe he should ask for forgiveness from the child in iraq who no longer has any parents thanks to his vote. Or maybe the soldier who doesn't have arms anymore.

Votes have consequences, and I'm not going to sit around and say "Oh I forgive you!" in a little feel good circle jerk.

I'm sorry if glossing over that little detail is considered not having "manners". Maybe more people should be held accountable for their votes and perhaps we wouldn't be in the situation we are in now.

[Stinky The Clown]

95. I'm not asking for forgiveness ... as stated several times by me ....

.... in this very thread.

Do votes have consequences? Of course they do. Do views change? Of course they do. Do I regret those votes? I said I do ... and I do. But I'm not asking forgiveness. But (also as stated) I *am* asking for acceptance. Failing to get that, however, I am still who I am and am still here, at **your** side.

Those questions remain unaswered. I'd really like to see how you address them.

[Unions]

96. If it is just acceptance you are asking for

you have that from me and I'm sure most others.

[Stinky The Clown]

97. Thanks ....

.... and just to put a noose around the neck of what I hope is a quickly dying branch to this thread .... had you read the post with an open mind and tried to understand the point and tone, you'd have already known that.

But thanks for the acceptance. I appreciate that. (<---not snarky)

[Stinky The Clown]

93. Self delete

HUGE oops here

Mea Maxima Culpa

[leftofthedial]

87. you sound like a good guy

who learned and changed

so I don't hate you quite as much.

;-)

[Stinky The Clown]

89. That's good to know.

Today's my birthday. Can I assume there'll be a card? No?

:)

[leftofthedial]

90. there'll be a belated card

someday