Is it a good idea to encourage 12, 13, 15 year-olds to "come out"?

[UdoKier]

Is it a good idea to encourage 12, 13, 15 year-old kids who feel they may be GLBT to "come out"?

I see that many groups are now promoting this. Aside from the fact that these kids are not yet at the age of consent, shouldn't these be the years of exploring one's sexuality, finding out who you are, rather than deciding that this is what you will be FOR LIFE?

[Cuban_Liberal]

1. It's different for every kid.

I came out relatively late, at 20, while Paddy came out at 15. Kids are individuals, and there is no 'one size fits all' time to come out.

[janx]

6. CL, I just noticed your avatar!

I grew up watching the Cardinals and hearing their games on AM radio. Hot summers though. The beer got warm fast.

[Cuban_Liberal]

7. Heh.

KMOX-AM 1120 is my friend from March to October.

:)

[nothingshocksmeanymore]

No..I think we should leave them crammed in the closet and let them

commit suicide with no venue for expressing themselves.

You make the assumption that they are deciding WHO THEY ARE FOR LIFE rather than RECOGNIZING who they are.

Your poll is filled with those value judgements.

The whole point of ENCOURAGING a kid to come out is to allow them to acknowledge who they are..not to tell them or convince them they are gay when they aren't..and if they aren't gay, they certainly aren't stuck being that for life..but if they are, then certainly they have some space to be accepted.

[Bill McBlueState]

2. "for life"

Does "coming out" have to mean "for life" as you seem to imply? I think at that age, coming out may only mean considering the possibility that one may be gay. Kids at that age are certainly wondering about sexual relationships, even if the thought of intercourse won't hit most of them for several years.

[UdoKier]

15. "Coming Out" meaning announcing to friends and family...

"I'm gay (or lesbian or transgender)"


In my case, when I was unsure and still trying all kinds of things sexually, I was encouraged by lots of gay friends to "come out". I did. to my parents, friends, everybody. And everybody (mostly) was pretty cool about it. But I was only 19, and still unexperienced. A little more experience with girls and I realized that I was bi, and leaned a little more to the hetero side than I had thought. I eventually married a wonderful lady and have two great kids.

I consider myself to be bi, but I am strictly committed to my wife, so "being out" as bi seems to be an unnecessary complication for me. Both straight and gay people are uncomfortable with it, and most don't realize that one can be bisexual and totally monogamous to one person of either gender.

I never "took it bacK" and I consider myself to be a strong supporter of GLBT rights, and sexual freedom in general.


But I really can't say that coming out at age 19, when I wasn't really quite sure yet, did me any good, except that I know what it's like to come out.

But I don't like to call myself "straight" either, because although I am in practice, it's not entirely true...

[progressivebydesign]

59. Thanks for sharing that... You make valid points.

It's interesting to hear such a personal take on it.

[libnnc]

3. What "groups" are you talking about specifically?

I'm not sure I like the tone of this poll.

[UdoKier]

8. I think most GLBT advocacy groups favor it, if tacitly.

What "tone" do you object to?

[libnnc]

11. to me it sounds like you're baiting

[noiretextatique]

70. which ones? please tell me which GLBT advocacy

groups you are talking about. thanks.

[Bill McBlueState]

4. "It's different for every kid."

I think this option avoids answering the question.

I agree with that statement, but I still have a yes-or-no opinion on the question in the subject line.

[VelmaD]

5. Oh good lord...

hetero kids don't have to put up with this nonsense. Why should gay kids? Or bi kids? Or any kids?

[noiretextatique]

62. it's a part of the "gay agenda"

:scared: the recruitment force :scared:

[readmoreoften]

9. You really do have a hard time with gay people, don't you? n/t

[UdoKier]

17. A lot of bisexual people do.

Gays are as unaccepting of bisexuals as straights are of gays.

[nothingshocksmeanymore]

18. Wow..that's telling

[UdoKier]

25. No, what's telling is...

When I started dating a woman, most of my gay friends started to blow me off.

When I got married, NONE of them would attend.

Most gays and straights insist on either/or.

[nothingshocksmeanymore]

36. Bullfuckingshit..you don't even KNOW most gays and straights

but I love that you use this anecdotal evidence to justify your anti-gay screeds

[UdoKier]

42. All right, fair enough

"most gays and straights I'VE KNOWN from personal experience. I have only one close gay friend left who actually listened and was understanding.


I guess the guys I hung with were really unusual or something.... :eyes:


"anti-gay screeds" ?WTF?

[readmoreoften]

45. especially when those bisexuals engage in heterosexual

rights like marriage and then deny those same rights to gays claiming that they are 'unimportant' and something that the 'party can sacrifice in favor of working people.'

So why can kids come out as bisexual at 12, 13, 14? Then they can either say bisexual or pansexual or decide they're gay or lesbian?

You know, as a femme dyke the gay community has been pretty shitty to me at times, but I didn't come to DU and start claiming that gays have no right to marry. Bisexuals slicing the throats of gays is as stupid as gays voting republican because the democrats have avoided their issues.

There's still a B in GLBT.

[nothingshocksmeanymore]

47. The gay community can be unaccepting of everybody at times

When you take a population of people and societally attempt to force them into repression..it sometimes has negative effects. That said, we all find our place sooner or later.

[UdoKier]

50. Since when do all bisexuals oppose same-sex marriage?

Since when do all gays favor it?


I personally am in favor of it, but I do think timing and strategy are crucial factors.

[Misunderestimator]

69. Oh... W H A T E V E R !!

:rofl:

[ruggerson]

71. That's kind of a generalization

I have no problem with bi people at all. And on a scale of one to ten, i'm a 11.5 on the gay o' meter.

There are many women I love, I enjoy them, I love having them in my life... I just have zero sexual/romantic interest in them.

Which leads to another question, where did the myth come around that gay men hate women and gay women hate men? Totally and completely untrue.

[ProgressiveConn]

10. Other: Gay, Straight... Who cares? nt

[jdj]

12. I didn't vote. I think it's good for kids to express how they feel regard

less. I thought the "no, celibate" option was disingenuous, because that is saying that all children under 18, heterosexual or homosexual, who express any feelings toward any gender or date or pet or kiss are somehow wrong. Just because kid feels he or she is gay does not mean he or she will have sex for months or even years after they make that decision. It is about their feelings at that stage, not their sexual activity, and they need to have someone in whom they can safely express their feelings. I came out about 2 years before I actually lost my 'gay virginity'.

[readmoreoften]

13. How many approve of straight kids insisting that they are straight?

Is it okay to tell straight kids that it's okay to be straight, considering so many of them will realize that they are gay later in life when they stop trying to be 'normal'?

I think the Straight Community is really manipulative in insisting that these kids proclaim their heterosexuality with proms and 17 magazine for girls. Insisting that straights be straight for LIFE is really kind of wrong at 12 or 13.

Give it up. No one in the gay community is TURNING KIDS GAY and STOPPING THEIR AVENUES OF EXPLORATION.

You really have it in for the queer community, huh?

[UdoKier]

20. "TURNING KIDS GAY and STOPPING THEIR AVENUES"

You said that, not me.

Yet another gay person who conveniently forgets about the existence of bisexuals....


And I actually agree with you about proms and those magazines. It is a mindfuck on kids.

So is football, so is PE class.

[readmoreoften]

52. You know, you're pretty presumptuous.

As a femme who has ALWAYS been assumed to be bisexual whether or not I sleep with men, and as someone who is in an LTR with a pre-op FTM transsexual, I think I know very well the complexities of sex and gender.

I consider all queers to be part of the gay community. Saying GAY doesn't mean not-lesbian in my mind either, nor does it mean non-trans.

But I know what we're up against with the RW fundamentalists and I'm not hanging anyone out to dry and I have NO IDEA why any other progressive would be so willing.

I hardly think it's the GLBT community fucking up kids.

[UdoKier]

56. Of course it's not.

This is one permutation of a huge, complex issue. It's not as though the whole issue boils down to this question. It just resonates with me because of my experiences.

I was lucky enough to have no fundies in my immediate family. My heart goes out to all the GLBT kids trying to find their way with that kind of repression. It's BECAUSE I had cool liberal parents that I was able to explore, come out, and then come to terms with my bisexuality. If my parents had been fundies, I can't imagine how I would've ended up.

[ComerPerro]

14. Well, I don't know what its like, but are many kids able to recognize

that they are homosexual at age 12?

I am sure its different for everyone. But some people don't know until they are 30.

I'm just not sure if kids in their early teens are self-aware enough to be 100% certain.

There is a lot of crazy stuff going on in the body at that age...

[Democrats_win]

24. Many say they knew by 12.

Honestly, our society is a long way from positively directing gay youth toward some utopian ideal.

We shouldn't worry about "when," but "what." What we do now is stigmatize homosexuality and for that, America will have a leader so bad....

[UdoKier]

28. Not me. I was turned on by pics of nekkid ladies at 8

I was turned on by other boys at 13, and turned on by both at 18. It was very confusing.

I'm always amazed by people who tell me they were SURE one way or another at such an early age.

[Terran]

26. Yes, I'd say nearly all are.

are many kids able to recognize that they are homosexual at age 12?

Just a guess, but as one myself, I feel I have some right to say this. I was a late bloomer, coming-out-wise, but I knew I was gay when I was 10 years old. 12 year olds are in junior high school, and by that time they're already in a world functionally similar to high school. Once you hit puberty, you know damn well what stimulates and what doesn't. I'm sure there are some kids who don't know by that time, mainly, I'm guessing, bisexual kids. But those who are oriented solely toward homosexuality, they will know by that age.

That said, I voted for 'it's different for every kid', because it *is* an individual thing. I think it's good to have understanding adults out there who will encourage coming out, but kids can be really awful at that age toward each other, and it's a tough time to do it; probably why I waited until I was 21. No one should be pressured to come out before they feel it's the right time. Unless of course they're a hypocritical self-hating republican hack, in which case...

I also agree this thread is possible flame bait, and am curious to know who *exactly* these groups are. If the OP cannot state that information, I wonder why the statement was made at all.

[Lone Pawn]

16. It's not like they can't go back.

There's not some form you sign that you can't unsign or anything.

[UdoKier]

22. Come on, please. Once you're out, you're out.

What about David Gest? How much ridicule did he endure for his "marriage" to Liza Minelli?

Once all your friends and family know, it changes their perception of you for good.

[Terran]

35. Mmmm, it's not that simple.

I don't know about "going back" (I agree that, emotionally, once you're out, you're out), but I know people who are selectively out. Many gay people are out to, for instance co-workers, but not to family; or out to some siblings but not others, and not to parents. It can be complicated, and it's not like taking a mask off. Tons of gay people are not out to their clergyman, but may be in almost every other aspect of their lives.

[UdoKier]

44. Yeah, I knew people like that...

But I was out TOTALLY to EVERYONE. I guess I was lucky because I don't have fundy parents and they were pretty cool with it.

It must suck to have fundy or homophobic parents.

[Inland]

38. But then your mom gets to say, "told you so."

Just as well to wait.

[libnnc]

19. hows about a poll...

that asks how many DUers are sick and tired of passive/aggressive heterosexist polls aimed at picking on lesbian/gay issues?

Please! Enough!

[quinnox]

21. my opinion

All sexuality is a private matter, and should not be "proclaimed" in the public square.

[Democrats_win]

30. Okay. But that's not reality. Ever see someone hold hands....ok bad

example. You get the idea. Part of youth is to be able to proclaim your love publicly. For a guy, its somewhat a matter of pride to walk around with your arm around your sweetie.

[gollygee]

39. Where is sexuality a private matter?

we had a small wedding, but we certainly invited guests.

We take our daughter, a direct consequence of our sexuality, out with us all the time.

It's ridiculous to think that it's even possible to keep sexuality private. It is public.

[Inland]

43. The business world.

You can go a long time without knowing what's up in the sexuality department. Just saying.

[gollygee]

46. I guess

my husband keeps a photo of the two of us, and several photos of our daughter in his office. I think it's pretty clear he's straight.

I suppose if you never see anyone's office - most people have personal photos. And if you never know anyone well enough to ask, "What did you do this weekend?" because with married people the answer will often tell. And if no one in your office ever has a new baby and you don't have to discuss the birth and child. And if your company never has family picnics.

[UdoKier]

49. I have pics of my wife and kids in my office but I'm not "straight"

Bisexuals...the most invisible minority.

[Inland]

51. You spend a ton of time with people who aren't in YOUR business.

Telephone, meetings, presentations.

Sometimes small talk comes up, but not a lot. Maybe I am more brusque than most, but MY weekend doesn't come up much.

[readmoreoften]

53. Yeah, no need to get married in the business world.

A 50 year old unmarried man.... no rumors there.

[Inland]

55. I don't ask for age or marital status. I ask for a check.

Just saying.

[gollygee]

23. How about letting the kid decide?

since it's his/her life?

[coffeenap]

27. I would like my kid to come out to me, his mom, so I could help

him navigate the road ahead and encourage him or her to talk to trusted adult friends who are already out. I would talk about the many ways we feel sexuality, especially in these early years, and suggest that s/he keep exploring his/her feelings as the months and years pass. (And proudly, I can say we do talk this way in my family--yay!)

[UdoKier]

32. That's pretty much what I would do.

There should be no rush to pigeonhole oneself.

[Inland]

33. You would always want your kid to be able to come to you

for anything, in the hope that the best decisions are made with your input.

[Inland]

29. Let them keep quiet and have guilty, furtive and dangerous sex like I did

when I was their age. And I had to walk ten miles to school through communist-held territory, uphill BOTH ways.

[gollygee]

31. ROFL

:D

hilarious

[UdoKier]

40. I hated sports and liked art and music, wasn't aggressive in high school

Therefore I HAD to be gay. At least that's what everybody kept saying, but after a year or so of dating guys, I felt something was missing. I found a great girlfriend, and have been with her since - married 10 years.


I am not an "ex-gay", because I'm not sorry for the relationships that I had with men. And I sure as hell don't think it was a sin, since there is no such thing. I enjoyed them, but it turned out not to be what I wanted for life. I'm still 100% for sexual freedom. It's the pigeonholing of one's own sexuality at a young age that concerns me.


As for sex at 12, 13, 15 - I never had any. Waited until I was 19 to do anything with anybody. Shy, I guess.

[Inland]

48. Now that I look at the original post--

I had better bump up the "their age" comment. Not so active at 12.

The whole high school thing--I was smallish town in the seventies, homosexuality hadn't been invented yet. I don't remember much going on that was particularly healthy or gratifying in any direction.

Although I suppose there were a few going steady who had something resembling mature sex.

So you didn't miss much.

And this is my fourteenth anniversary today. I had better go buy a card, or there isn't going to be any sex of any kind in the near future.

[ghostsofgiants]

34. What about the 14 year olds?

Won't sombody think of the 14 year olds?!

[SmokingJacket]

37. Just encourage kids to be who they are.

Teenage culture is so sexualized, that the alternative to "coming out" is often pretending to be straight.

Personally, I'd like my own kids to be celibate until they're 21, but I know that probably ain't gonna happen. But sexual identity happens long before actual sex happens (usually!).

My kids are young, but I plan to encourage them to put off sex as long as they can, because it's so much better when you're emotionally ready. Meanwhile, they shouldn't pretend to be something they aren't.

I have a friend who knew he was gay when he was four. On the other hand, I have another friend who figured it out when she was 26. Everyone's different...

[Inland]

41. Is orientation more or less troubling than activity?

You mention activity and the sexualization of teen culture. Is the orientation less troubling for you than activity, or a great deal of activity?

[SmokingJacket]

63. Oh, shoot, orientation is not an issue with me.

It's activity that concerns me.

But it also bothers me that so much of teenage culture is about sex, whether or not it actually happens. Unless I homeschool, and move to the woods, there's not much I can do about that.

It would be great if kids could be free of the burdens and pressures of sex -- because sex is a burden, straight or gay -- for as long as possible.

You have to balance your desires for your kid with reality. I guess!

[nonconformist]

54. Obviously it's different for every kid

One thirteen year old will come out and feel better about himself and less conflicted. Another will get his ass relentlessly kicked and be shunned at school until he graduates. Yet another will be shunned by his parents. Yet another will regret his choice and opt for suicide.

This is a highly personal choice that can only be made by the person making it. If I knew a young teen who suspected or knew he was gay and wanted to come out, I would support him 100%. At the same time, if I knew a young teen who suspected or knew he was gay but is choosing to lay low until he's sure or feels more secure in sharing that, I'd support that 100%.

[CoolOnion]

57. I knew I was hetero as soon as I had consciousness

I imagine it's the same for gay people. A gay friend says when he was a toddler, he used to watch TV ads with couples in them, and wonder why they were all male/female. He wondered why there were commercials or TV shows with two men or two women as a couple.

You are what you are--why not allow kids to talk about it whenever they're ready?

[Mondon]

58. I can see the RW headlines now--

"the homos are recruiting your kids!"

[UdoKier]

60. They already say that anyway.

It's a fine distinction, but that's not what this is about. I wish GLBT groups would stress young people exploring their sexuality in a healthy way until young adulthood with whomever they want.

But I don't think the present emphasis on "coming out" is really "recruiting" at all. You cannot recruit a straight kid to be gay. Problem is that a lot of kids are not straight or gay. They are bi, but being told by society that they have to be one way or the other.

(And it's not just the GLBT groups to be fair. I wish I had put that in the OP. Straight society is even worse about trying to make kids define themselves as hetero, with all the proms and oversexed ads aimed at teens...)

[Mondon]

66. Of course it's not about recruiting

but that's the inevitable spin

[donheld]

61. Kids should be encouraged to be who they are

at any age. If at 12 they know they are gay, then let them be.

[ruggerson]

64. Not to be callous

but the only straight people who have any grasp of this is those who have either raised gay kids, been best friends with one or been a sibling of one.

Kids should be encouraged to be kids. Some kids, both straight and gay, have sexual feelings very early on. Those kids should be taught that it's good to wait to express them when you're a little older and have a grasp on your feelings, because sex, attraction and love are powerful human experiences.

Gay kids in puberty should be treated no differently than straight kids. If they think they're attracted to members of the own sex, great, then their parents should encourage them to date the people they wish to date.

The very premise of this question implies that sexuality questions should somehow be different for gay kids than straight ones. That gay kids should "hide" who they are until some magic age.

Nope. They should be honest about their feelings from the get go, and they should receive honesty in return.

[noiretextatique]

65. the post seems to imply that by coming out at an early age as gay

one is "stuck" somehow. i don't think it applies to heterosexual kids :shrug:

[Mich Otter]

67. At any age...

At any age, it is most important that everyone feel positive about their sexual identity, whatever it may be, and it may change with time.
For some kids, that can happen at five years old. Other "kids" might figure themselves out when they are collecting Social Security.
There is no "age" that is right for everyone.

[Misunderestimator]

68. There's a huge difference between "coming out" and deciding for life...

What on earth do you think the alternative should be? Should the only "exploration" be heterosexual exploration?

Sorry, but that's what I had to go through as a kid, and I wouldn't wish it on anyone. Like the only way you're allowed to "come out" as a gay person is if you have already explored the other side. It's not true for you, it's not true for us.

What I would have given to have grown up in an environment that encouraged me to understand and accept myself, instead of the one you suggest.

[The Magistrate]

72. Locking

This topic is inappropriate, and flame-bait.