Any thoughts about the UK General election?

[T_i_B]

That dear Friend of DU Tony Blair is up for re-election next week.

Do you lot have any questions about the UK General election such as how it works, what are the main issues and how badly do the main parties all suck?

Blair looks to be heading for another victory, but he is defending an unassailable position of a landslide majority in parliament and the main opposition are the Conservatives, who are even worse! The Lib Dem's are more DU friendly but they are only a third party.

And then we have the rest of the parties such as the SNP, Plaid Cymru, UKIP, Greens, RESPECT, Veritas, BNP :puke: and so on. Here's the UK forum for reference.

http://www.democraticunderground.com/discuss/duboard.php?az=show_topics&forum=191

[ananda]

1. hmm

I think I understand how confused and crazy it is over there. It looks to me as if Blair is just the lesser of other evils, and he's starting to lose his cool. A couple of days ago he was fielding questions with a kind of frazzled, maniacal desperation ... and he's constantly repeating the mantra "I think I was right," when he definitely knows he was wrong.

Pretty pathetic.

Sue

[Cessna Invesco Palin]

3. He does that all the time, though.

Journalists are actually allowed to talk to politicians here, and they don't necessarily throw softballs.

[T_i_B]

4. If you are referring to the Iraq issue

It's only actually been raised as an issue in the past few days. The Conservatives are, with quite breathtaking hypocrisy coming out with a billboard campaign pointing out that Blair lied over Iraq, but they supported him in that so it's pot calling kettle black there I'm afraid.

The only main party that opposed the war on Iraq were the Liberal Democrats, who are a third party. Both the Labour and Tory parties were all for it. :grr:

[mr blur]

2. It looks as if we're on our own on this one!

20 years ago I would never have thought that the time would come when I wouldn't be excited at the thought of a Labour election victory. Of course, this was before Bliar and his shiny-suited slimeballs got his hands on the party I cared about and which used to care about the rest of us.

[ReadTomPaine]

5. "What if Bush somehow managed to run as a Democrat?"

This is how I see the Blair situation in the UK, in rough analogy. We have had problems with ineffectual Democrats, but at least we have the fundamentals of a large opposition party in place. With Labour being led by Blair, one of the wars co-architects, where can British voters take their vote? Nasty place he's left his own supporters.

The real question is why he did this, I'm still mystified.

[Spider Jerusalem]

6. I got a rather amusing analysis of the election in my email not long ago.

I'm on Warren Ellis' mailing list (he's a comics writer, lives in the UK), and he sent this a few weeks ago...

No-one with two brain cells to rub together has any trust left in Tony Blair. The economy's overheated, there's been no attempt to recover the public services from the mess the Tories left them in, and he's got George Bush's hand up his arse. That's a list that goes on, but I've only been awake an hour and a half.

However, the party of opposition is the Tories, as run by Michael Howard, who as Home Secretary in the last Tory govt was a criminal prick denounced as a moral mutant by his own colleagues. His grinning, glass-eyed presence is nothing short of Satanic. His campaign so far has been nothing short of loathesome, playing to the lowest instincts in the worst of us. If he gets into power Britain is going to make America look like classical Greece.

The third party are the Liberal Democrats, currently fronted by Charlie Kennedy, an amiable Scots bloke who likes a drink. He used to be deputy to Paddy Ashdown, under whom LibDem iterated their only coherent soundbite of a policy. "A penny in the pound for education." 1% tax rise that would pay for schools. Great idea, simply put. So simply put, in fact, that everyone heard nothing but "tax rise" and told them to fuck off. Paddy Ashdown was great. Ex-SAS. The only political leader in living memory who could kill you with his thumbs. Prime Minister's Question Time would have been must-watch TV. Prime Minister Ashdown plunking his machine gun down on the box and saying, "the Prime Minister would like you all on your knees now."

Charlie Kennedy's wife just had their first baby. They've called the poor little sod Donald. Charlie Kennedy's going to be listening to crowd renditions of "Donald Where's Your Troosers" for the next month.

He comes off as a nice guy. No gravitas at all. He was great as the friendly, funny deputy to stern, grizzled, Paddy Ashdown. With no-one to play off, he kind of looks like a kid shuffling around in daddy's shoes now.

And then there's the Green Party. Whose political statement of today was "we're not going to get into power." Which might be refreshing in its realism, but doesn't quite stir the masses to action. It's a shame, because their basic planks -- cut the Labour plan for new roads dead and re-route that committed budget into the national health service -- are easy to grasp and ring with some plausibility. Which isn't the same thing as BEING plausible, but this is politics.

So there are the choices: the scum, the thing worse than scum, Donald Where's Your Troosers and a bunch of hippies who appear afraid to be in charge of anything.

[T_i_B]

8. Not a bad analysis

Although it doesn't touch on the likes of the UK Independence Party, who are even more right wing then the Tories!

[Spider Jerusalem]

9. The hardcore Eurosceptic vote isn't all that large, though...

from what I've read it doesn't seem too likely that the far-right parties like UKIP and BNP are much more than a nuisance, and if anything help Labour by taking votes from the Tories...

Given the way things seem to be going, I wouldn't be altogether surprised to see the election result in a Labour minority government.

[tjwmason]

12. The Euro-sceptics come out for European elections - not the others

The last elections for the European Parliament had the UKIP in third place (Tories first, Labour second, LibDems fourth). I'm guessing this time round most of the UKIP vote will go Tory - people know full well that the UKIP isn't doing anything or going anyway, but they're willing to throw a vote that way in what they consider to be a pretty irrelevant election.

[Tierra_y_Libertad]

7. Neo-Lib vs Neo-Con. Lose/Lose situation.

I'd be voting 3rd party.

[sweetheart]

10. All in all, I support Labour

Tony Blair is a realist and he's doing an Ok job, soon to be passed on
to Gordon Brown. Labour has done all right for most people in britain,
enough so, that they can afford to be petty and ungracious, that this
election is being fought on the lowest subhuman levels of deception and
trickery (the conservatives using the bush technique).

I like the Libdems, and i hope they garner more votes, but they are not
ready for power. So basically, its a car race, where only 1 car has
NOT run out of petrol... "Labour"... and labour, for all its faults,
and bush poodles, has done good for the british people.

There is this unrealistic thinking that somehow, what was a warm war
of air patrolling iraq was somehow going to sort itself out, and when
the yanks went to a hot war, tony should have come clean and opted out,
but he did not... bad, naughty... even worse, he stuck by boosh to get
him a second term... even badder, naughtier... but this is nothing
compared to the stupid fools who are running against blair. They
are incompetent... really incompetent, not ready for government, a
bunch of wishy washy wooly thinkers and nob-heads, not the least bit
ready for power, the lot of them.

I'll attach my cart to Blair's wagon train for this one. He's the
best thing going, and for all his crimes, is still the best act in
town. May the blessings of all the buddha's support blair in his time
of need (and may he be humble as hell given his sins).

[mr blur]

16. What to do?

I'm a lifelong Labour supporter (card-carrying until recently) but I think Blair's a lying scumbag who should be taken to court. I always believed you should support the party and not the Presidential-style bastard who's at the head of it and I agree that Labour has done much good for the country but, short of Labour winning but Blair losing his own seat, this will be a very depressing election. Despite all the Blair-lied-about-Iraq protesting that's going on, I fear he will win the election and then trumpet his Bush-style "I have a mandate from the people" justification for his past illegal actions. Then we'll all be expected to shut up and not mention the war again.

[sweetheart]

11. kick

din't mean to sink your thread TIB, so kick ... :-)

[T_i_B]

13. I didn't think that you sunk it!

:-)

[ObaMania]

14. What happened to all the times..

.. they were talking about getting rid of him? And now he's up for re-election and will win?

I'm thinking the Brits are more stupid than 'Muricans are!

[T_i_B]

15. In the last two elections...

...Blair has won landslide majorities against a Conservative party that is even worse! As such Blair is in an impregnable position. Not good for democracy but there you go.

There was a very good documentary about how bad the UK General election is on British terrestrial TV on Monday. I guess I'll have to get a link to it for future reference.

[sweetheart]

17. He's a lame duck already

He's announced that he'll step down, and he's under tremendous pressure
due to the exposure of the legal advise that he recieved and lied about
that advised the war was illegal.

I'd wager the odds that he'll be retired within 2 years time, and a
vote for labour, is rather a vote for Mr Brown, a one time lover of
queen victoria... :-)

[Taxloss]

18. I disagree that the Lib Dems are "more DU-friendly".

Anything but. I suppose the greens are DU-friendly, but the Lib Dems are hardcore free-marketeers in disguise. The "Orange Book" proposed breaking up the NHS, for pete's sake! I like Chazza, but the Lib Dems are a lousy party with a likeable leader. They simply can't be trusted, and their record in local government isn't much to write home about. Blair is loathsome, but Labour still offers the best bet for Britain.

Living as I do in a safe Conservative seat, I will be voting for Brian Haw, the local independent protest vote, confident that my vote will make no difference. But I urge voters in marginals to hold your nose and vote Labour.

[muriel_volestrangler]

19. The proposal to switch to National Health Insurance was from one guy

and was pretty quickly stomped on by the leadership. There's a discussion of it here: http://www.bma.org.uk/ap.nsf/Content/hpd1to8sept

I'd urge anyone in a marginal seat where Labour is involved to look at the record of the Labour candidate. If they haven't rebelled against Blair on a significant issue (Iraq or house arrest - anything else where Blair is being horribly militaristic and authoritarian?) then vote against them. If that means voting for the Tory, and that's too much for you (or the particular Tory is just as bad as Blair), then vote for a protest candidate - or stay away (and tell the Blairite and the Labour constituency party why you can't vote for the little shit).

[Taxloss]

20. I agree about checking the records of your local PPC,

but you wouldn't endorse the Lib Dems, would you? It's not just the NHS thing, they can't be trusted on anything.

[muriel_volestrangler]

22. I trust them more than Blair, Milburn, Straw, Clarke,

Kelly, Prescott, Hewitt, Jowell, ...
More than all Conservatives.

About as much as Brown, or Claire Short.

Perhaps Robin Cook would be better than the average Lib Dem. Though I think I trust Kennedy more than him.

[Taxloss]

23. Muriel, they really don't deserve your trust.

Blair will be gone shortly, and his inner circle is lost without him.

A change of leader would shake up the whole upper party.

And why don't you trust Prescott? He strikes me as one of the most solid, dependable members of the Cabinet.

[muriel_volestrangler]

24. What has Prescott achieved? Nothing, as far as I can see

He's just sat in the cabinet, supporting Blair. At least Brown has occasionally leaked how much he dislikes Blair, and made him sweat on one of two topics.

I wish I did feel that New Labour would be gone once Blair is dispatched. But they still have so many of the top places in Labour. I can't see Brown suddenly sacking all of them - he's been quite happy recently to support Blair fully.

PS: OK, one thing that Prescott sounded reasonable on - travellers, since he was telling councils they had to do more to allow them places to live.

[Taxloss]

25. There's an absolute tonne Prescott has done, but it never gets

reported. He has done enormous amounts to regenerate cities and turn around housing in low demand areas. This government - via Prescott - is investing more in housing than ever before, regenerating deprived neighbourhoods and building proper mixed communities. And this is all thanks to Prescott and Brown - Tony had little involvement.

[T_i_B]

27. If you know DU you will know it's quite accurate...

...to portray the the Lib Dem's as DU friendly. In polls of which UK parties DUer's prefer Lib Dem's come top every single time.

Being the biggest UK party to oppose the war is a big plus for DUer's, plus Lib Dem policies on matters from council tax to Europe tend to be well received on here. Labour policies such as PFI, top-up fees, foundation hospitals, immigration controls and ID cards are not well received on DU.

[rfkrfk]

21. most Americans are familiar with UK politics from viewing the BBC

documentary series about life in the British Isles...
Monty Python.
Who is standing for election from North Minehead?

[Lone Pawn]

26. Other than being Bush's poodle on Iraq, Labour's been pretty good.

I'd much prefer to see them in power than the Tories. And since the LibDems have no chance, I'm hoping for Labour gains.

[mr blur]

28. I agree, but,

that's still a pretty big "Other than..."

[Endangered Specie]

29. I recommend watching QuestionTime...

from the BBC website:

90 minute program with the 3 party leaders being grilled (if only they did this here): http://www.bbc.co.uk/newsa/n5ctrl/progs/question_time/latest.ram
(realplayer)
main questiontime page:http://news.bbc.co.uk/1/hi/programmes/question_time/default.stm#


main election page:
http://news.bbc.co.uk/nol/ifs_news/hi/uk_news/politics/vote_2005/default.stm

parties:
http://news.bbc.co.uk/1/shared/vote2005/issues/html/grid.stm?s1=CON_UK&s2=LAB_UK&s3=LD_UK&x=9&y=11

'basics' of UK voting (apparently they use this ridiculous wacky method of hand counting and Paper ballots, where you make a BIG X in a BIG SQUARE, of the party you want to VOTE FOR :sarcasm:
http://news.bbc.co.uk/1/hi/uk_politics/vote_2005/basics/default.stm

Click on the "Election news in video" button for lots of goodies there too. Better coverage than our media in our elections :grr:

I for one would like to see a liberal-democrat gain, I imagine alot of people are ticked off with Tony and subsequently, Labor; but then again, if people split their votes too much, the Torries could win :scared:. Remember, the UK has a "first past the post" NOT proportional elections.:thumbsdown: