After seeing "JFK" tonight I'm surprised they didn't assassinate Clinton.

[jdj]

Really.

They've killed just about every other good person that has come down the pike. They didn't have to kill Carter because of the gas shortage and the hostage crisis... and sometimes I wonder if that whole Reagan thing was faked (kind of like the terra warnings today) since the Bushes were in so tight with the Hinckleys.


?????????

[FreedomAngel82]

1. I remember reading

on a JFK thread that Bush senior was involved in trying to kill Reagan because he wanted to be president and it wasn't a sure way with running but it would've been if he was killed. So I think he really tried to kill Reagan. I'm surprised nothing happened either (that we know of anyways). Clinton did a lot for the country with the ecnomy.

[jdj]

3. I just read about the dubious evidence linking Sirhan Sirhan

to the killing of Robert Kennedy, apparently there is no way whatsoever that he could have been the assassin, he was standing about 2 feet too far away.

[Media_Lies_Daily]

37. Sirhan Sirhan did empty his 8-shot revolver while facing RFK, but....

...RFK's fatal wounds were behind his ear and had been fired from close range. Photographs taken at the scene of the shooting prove that more than eight shots were fired at RFK.

[Charon]

45. I remember reading

Why not, it worked for Lyndon Johnson

[Rich Hunt]

71. excuse me?!?

What sort of lie are you trying to slip in here?

[Skink]

2. Here's something interesting...

Lawton Chiles the popular Florida Governor apparently said and I'm paraphrasing nothing good can come if that mobster Bush were to become Florida Governor. Then shortly after he died in office. I just found that out and thought I'd share.

[jdj]

4. I know they are thugs but I have never heard them linked to 'the'

mafia. Is it the mafia, or the military industrial mafia? Bush, Sr. is evil incarnate, and it makes it that much worse for Clinton to even be in the same room with that son of a bitch.

[FreedomAngel82]

5. I wonder why

Clinton hangs out with them? :shrug: It boogles my mind. I know he's a nice guy and all but still. I would be worried personally.

[Ironpost]

36. I believe it's his strategy to cozy up to them to get inside info

to help bring them down. I think he feels it's his responsibility to help save our democracy.

[FreedomAngel82]

48. Could be

:shrug: I really don't know.

[kenny blankenship]

35. why didn't they just kill Oliver Stone?

If one bad movie was enough to make you realize the "truth"?
Wouldn't it make more sense to just dispatch him and let people wonder if the Grand Conspiracy got him than to let his film come out? Movie projects aren't big secrets after all. They could find out JFK was in the pipeline and take out enough of the principles to ensure it never reached its premiere. Don't forget who was President while it was in production and at the time of its release.

After watching that movie, I'm amazed Oliver Stone hasn't been committed to the booby hatch. Hiding this POS thread.

[Media_Lies_Daily]

39. I guess you missed all of the attempts to vilify Stone and "JFK"....

...long before it hit the theaters.

Most people that believe "JFK" to be a "bad" movie have done very little if any independent reading/research to understand just how much of that movie is based on factual information. People like that usually get their "facts" from whatever the government wants them to believe. The Warren Commission fiction is their bible.

I'm surprised that most of the people that were foaming at the mouth to destroy "JFK" long before it hit the theaters weren't committed to the "booby hatch".

[LibraLiz1973]

56. I loved JFK. It's a fanstastic movie.

Stones conclusions as far as who did it may have been wrong, but he was onto something. Anyone who believes Oswald acted alone hasn't been paying attention. And for RFK & MLK to also be assasinated? Puh-Lease. The thinking men of that era were doomed.

http://www.amazon.com/exec/obidos/tg/detail/-/0786712422/qid=1114367994/sr=8-7/ref=pd_ka_2/102-4034504-6752119?v=glance&s=books&n=507846


http://mcadams.posc.mu.edu/home.htm

[FreedomAngel82]

49. That's easy

Jennings did it in his little special. He claimed Stone was a "consperiacy theorist." Of course.

[lala_rawraw]

54. the problem

Is that Stone did not adhere to the facts of the story as he had originally wanted to, but was forced not to by studio execs.

He downplays really important information but plays up trivial information. Some facts are missing and some are not presented fully. It is a great film, but it is not the reality of what actually happened. There is enough research and court documents, plus litigation information that puts the picture together nicely. There were people willing to help Stone on the script, but in the end they had to walk because the story was not accurate. They demanded to have their names removed from the credits. The "they" I refer to are Mark Lane and Jim Garrison.

It is true that their were Cuban nationals involved, but they were CIA assets under a department in the CIA called "special plans". Within that department there was a group called operation 40 (look up liberty lobby case) who were assigned to frame Cuba using Cuban CIA assets.

What Stone left out is the operation 40 information almost entirely, because of the implications (well, facts). He also left out the names of the ships during the Bay of Pigs, the name of the Bay of Pigs project, the conflict of interest placements on various investigation commissions. He focused too much on Clay and not enough on Hunt, Rodriguez, and the so called "Russian embassy" lie. It was a long movie, but it left out the crucial facts and focused on the scandal aspect of CIA operatives using gay hookers. That sort of muddied the waters. Notice that the key Operations 40 people (still alive) are now in power positions and guiding this country.

[Rich Hunt]

72. because the movie's a mess

It has just about every conspiracy theory on the planet in it, so obviously much of it is wrong. Hence, it's not problematic to anyone who might have something to hide.

[bobthedrummer]

6. Some of it was just letting organized crime do it's thing-this is widely

known to all decent law-enforcement and prosecutors that have come up against that broad shield that hides so many crimes-"national security".

They've reached the point of privatizing this and getting no-bid contracts for private armies, paid for with our taxes.

It's the BFEE.

[jdj]

7. so what if the BFEE vanished, then who would take over?

are they so evil that it would take years for another org or family to dominate, or would another evil entity spring up immediately to replace them?

[FreedomAngel82]

9. Knowing them

they probably are training someone now. :shrug:

[jdj]

18. instead of Boys from Brazil, it's "The Boys from the BFEE"

I guess I need to start breeding dobermans.

[bobthedrummer]

21. There would be a power struggle in the vacuum of the absence of the

neo-conservative dominated structure that I wouldn't care to consider right now-we've got to be in opposition to these traitors and criminals today.

[Djinn]

8. Clinton didn't threaten the established order

so why kill him? whether you beleive it was the mob or the CIA or both who killed Kennedy, he had actually threatened the livelihood or power of people in a position to do something about it.

Clinton didn't threaten "free trade" he didn't threaten big business, he didn't threaten the mob. He worked very much within established allowable parameters. Why would anyone kill him?

[FreedomAngel82]

10. Very true

That's true. Clinton was just a politician. Nothing like Kennedy.

[DerekG]

38. Hunter S. Thompson said something very similar

Clinton posed no threat to the military-industrial complex; anyone who was paying attention to "Big Dawg's" stunning eight-year reign of mediocrity shouldn't be surprised that he's taken a liking to Bush Sr.

They only kill the principled ones...which is why Dennis Kucinich should probably stay away from airplanes for a while.

[lala_rawraw]

55. As should...

Dean, Conyers, and every single Kennedy male.

Notice that JFK, RFK, MLK, Malcom X, etc., were killed so quickly in such a short time. Have you seen any such murders again? The only attempt was on Ronnie, but there again, the Bush family is connected to the assassins family. There is a difference between what used to be known as organized crime/mafia and the WASP mafia. The Italian mafia had a code of honor (i know, hard to believe) but it was a code. They had a deep respect for tradition and their culture. They also did a great deal for their communities. It is the WASP mafia that holds no code of honor, no respect for anything or anyone, and cares only about their sphere of existence. The real mafia should be outraged for being used by WASP rich kids as pawns. I am not defending the Italian mafia, but I have more respect for the days of Meyer Lansky than I do for Capo Bush.

[mitchum]

61. Exactly!

[AndyTiedye]

11. Then They Would Have Had to Deal With President Gore

whom they would have found considerably less accommodating,
particularly on environmental issues.

That is why Bill Clinton is still alive today.


The Republicans use VPs as "life insurance" too,
Nixon was safe with Spiro Agnew as VP,
as was George I with Dan Quayle.

[jdj]

14. ouch, that there is probably true.

they would have had to kill both of them.

[BlueIris]

27. That is completely right about Gore.

Who was schooled proper in the evils of the BFEE by his father, one of the best men to ever serve in American government, who had the misfortune of getting wind of what They wanted to do to JFK, screaming his head off about it, and not, from what I've read, being fully believed. Senator Albert Gore, Sr. is actually a hero of mine for that reason.

[pretzel4gore]

12. the government forced a 'not guilty > insanity' verdict

i heard a juror, a young woman, crying and saying they thought hinckley was criminal, should go to prison, but they were pressured to let hinckley off on the psych bit.....and never heard another word about it! Frigging media was too busy hearding the cudchewers towards the cliff apparently....the bastards.... sam donaldson voted for goldwater in '64 (remember 'extremism in defense of liberty is no vice etc'?)....sam donaldson was supposedly a 'liberal' hahaha (it was george will who exposed donaldson during last show (meat the pross was it??)...he told donaldson that now he was leaving news biz, was it ok to reveal his voting record?? donaldon stared helplessly as gweewill ratted him out, though it seems i was only person on earth who saw that (outta 6 billion people ferchrissake!)
btw though clinton never say it, i betcha threats to his daughter were made plain to him....

[H2O Man]

13. They did.

Character assassination raises fewer questions.

[jdj]

15. true, true.

and stays in the news alot longer too.

JFK's death didn't cast aspersions on a whole group of people like Clinton's philandering did on democrats.

of course he make the mistake of banging an amateur, whereas the repukes dilly-dally mostly with the pros (like Gannon) who have to honor confidentiality to stay in business (and alive).

[H2O Man]

19. Yep.

Further, democrats didn't hesitate to be associated with JFK after his death. LBJ ran in 1964 on a platform that promised to fulfill JFK's agenda, and in some areas he did. But Gore distanced himself from Clinton in 2000, in large part because of Fox News and similar republican propaganda.

[bush_is_wacko]

16. You might also want to wonder if there is a possibility that Reagan wasn't

quite on board with the BFEE! In all my research on the issue. I have come to realize he LIKELY was NOT on board and his Alzheimer's may have been aggravated by the fact he could not deal with the knowledge of what others convinced him to release upon the world in the guise of his "chosen" VP. Reagan NEVER like Bush. he was ADVISED to nominate him for VP. It was the chance of a lifetime for the whole gang. Rummy, bush, Cheney....

Notice while your researching that those secret negotiations with regards to Iran-contra were conducted in the White House while Reagan was recovering from a VERY nearly fatal gunshot wound. It wasn't contrived. It was deadly serious we nearly had VP bush as our president for many more years than we elected him to be one.

I disagreed with a lot of Reagan's policies and beliefs, but I really do believe, he was NOT on board with Poppy's world domination plan.

Mark this post. It is likely to be the ONLY time you ever hear me defend a Republican!

[jdj]

20. was it purposely not fatal?

I wouldn't put anything past these people.

These gov't marksmen are pretty well trained and accurate.

Is there any evidence like in the Bobby Kennedy assassination that perhaps it wasn't even Hinckley who fired the shots at Reagan?

I mean, maybe Hinckley was just a convenient troubled young man that Bush happened to know through Scott Hinckley, a convenient pawn.

[bush_is_wacko]

22. No it was most definitely meant to be fatal!

And without a doubt the BFEE was behind the whole thing. They wanted him out of their way and they used his recovery to start their evil plans in motion when the attempt failed. I am positive he started to decline far more rapidly after that incident than has ever been admitted publicly. I almost wonder at times if they weren't drugging him with something to keep him out of the way. I have no proof of that statement. So don't go spreading it around, but something was wrong with him after that. Either he was really having a difficult time recovering or his Alzheimer's had started to rear it's ugly head or something but he was not the same after that incident.

[pretzel4gore]

34. KAL 007...

the memory hole has taken the KAL007 incident far away, but.....they probably used electronic hijacking then too, and the media skimmed over the obviously ridiculous (a state of art passenger airliner 'straying' off course 300 miles over several hours into most deadly airspace on earth w/out warning from any parties involved; this despite constant radar contact/radio comms. etc) just the fact KAL 007 remains a non event says 911 was inevitable. Reagan must have been on a rolling log that day because it's hard to believe he could have gone along with such a scheme; had no time to react coolly...and then he along with the entire society and just just said 'fukkit' and never looked back(?)
The BFEE should have been nailed then- but notice how they used the national security symbols to hide their crime...the USA should torture the truth outta oldbush and cheney and rumsvelt and james woolsey and that rabbi guy who ran the pentagon money biz until he felt he attracted too much attention last year....

[bush_is_wacko]

47. EXACTLY! Do you think it was his Alzheimer's though back then?

I sometimes wonder if Alzheimer's wasn't really what he was suffering from. GUILT can be a powerful amnesiac! Notice the Reagan family has NEVER endorsed either bush! I find that VERY telling. In all honest i don't like Nancy Reagan, but her grief at her husbands funeral was very touching. She loved that man with all her heart and I think she will die with all his secrets, but I bet money his kids know enough to be telling people where to look for the evidence against the people I REALLY feel were responsible for that mans condition.

[pretzel4gore]

50. Reagan was old when elected...probably too old

Time Magazine (newsweek?) published an undoctored photo of reagan back in the early 80's...he was in what looked like a wheelchair and looked like granny clampette, wrinkled, white haired and his legs covered with a blanket, obviously an old man ...as far as his alzheimers...let's just say even a ronald reagan, with nancy by his side, stood no chance against an organization so devoid of ethics as the BFEE...the real soft spot on the repuke flank is and was the liar media....who would have killed a reagan presidency (and thus the bushfamily's aspirations) had they honestly and objectively reported what was going on at the end of carter administration....check out the media's highlighting the outrage over the carter admin's last budget, with its $58 billion deficit....all front page lead news item...2 years later, reagan began first of $200 billion deficits (aided by the KAL007 event) that took the Nat. Debt from 1 trillion at end of Carter to 2.6 trillion end of Reagan (it was nearly 5 trillion(?) when clinton took over)..just ron's age alone shoulda kept him outta the white house; nevermind his being a front for the worst criminal organization on earth

[bush_is_wacko]

59. Yeah, but he was in good shape for his age. Look how long he lived

afterward! That heart never gave out in all those years. He was a tough guy! I never saw the picture you refer to. Do you know where it is now? He was always heavily made up back then I don't think we ever saw the true face of Reagan. Being an actor he had access to the best makeup artists around. Rosy red cheeks always, and the picture of health! Looking back, I can see he had to have been made up. He was freaking ancient even then!

[Media_Lies_Daily]

40. Think who would have come to power had Reagan been killed....

...and then think about the fact that the Bush and Hinkley families knew each other quite well, going back to the oil days of Midland, TX. Neil Bush and Hinkley's brother were about to have lunch together when the news of the assassination attempt hit the airwaves.

Most people believe that Poppy Bush was running the country while Reagan was president in name only.

[H2O Man]

42. I agree

100%.

[ComerPerro]

52. I always thought the attempt on Reagans life was a Bob Roberts thing

[Hippo_Tron]

60. Other evidence would suggest that he was more on board than Bush I

Many historians would suggest that Poppy was more of an old-style conservative than Reagan as suggested by his statement about "Voodoo economics" when referring to Reagan's supply-side economics. In 1992 he raised taxes because he was seriously concerned with the rising deficit.

Reagan did none of those things.

As to where Cheney and Rumsfeld come in, it's an interesting question. The two of them really reached their original prominence in the Ford administration which is hard to believe considering that we look at Ford as actually being one of the good Republicans.

[bush_is_wacko]

64. And Ford LIKED Cheney after he got over his initial mistrust of him!

I know, I have a VERY hard time figuring out Ford, but here's kind of what I concluded in the end. Ford was set up to calm down the country. He was FAR smarter than people give him credit for. he did EXACTLY that. he played the real good guy for the remainder of his term and from what I understand he was never really too keen on being president anyway. His pardon of Nixon was really just a move to make sure the country could settle back down and NOT attempt to overthrow the the government. If he had allowed the impeachment to go on and the truth to come out this country would have gone ballistic. Much is STILL not known about that whole thing and I think it STILL applies to today's world.

Ford was his own man, no doubt, but because he lacked the drive to be president and felt completed without being one, he was the PERFECT face to show the world at a time when our government needed to protect itself from it's citizens finding out some very DARK secrets. Do I know what they are? NO, not really, but I'm sure they are STILL very DARK secrets and I'm sure they have the power to change the way Americans view their government PERMANENTLY!

[bobbieinok]

66. was Ford on the Warren commission????

[Hippo_Tron]

67. Oh I agree 100% about Ford

I think that he was genuinely trying to do what was right and he knew that putting Nixon on trial would've been horrible for the country that had already been through so much.

The one response that I do have to your analysis is that perhaps the current administration has shown us that Ford was wrong. Perhaps Americans DO need to distrust their government a LOT more than they do now.

And we still can't seem to explain the Cheney and Rumsfeld thing. My only guess is that they were different then than they are now.

[Catherine Vincent]

17. I've always thought that.

As much hate they had for the man. But they did character assasinate him.

[brettdale]

23. How were the Bushes tied to the Hinckleys

How were the Bushes tied to the Hinckleys?

[jdj]

24. Scott Hinckley, brother of John, was a friend of the Bush boys.

the Bushes were supposed to eat dinner at the Hinckley's either that night or the next day.

Of course there are some business dealings with the senior Hinckley that I can't remember the details of.

google it, because I may have a few of the details wrong, but the two families were good friends...I think Scott went to the same school as some of the younger Bushes or something.

[Media_Lies_Daily]

41. Oil business in Midland, TX.

[Zen Democrat]

62. Here's a link. You can google lots more.

http://www.ciajfk.com/home4.html

[BringEmOn]

25. They needed to build a huge surplus so they could steal it...

...and have Clinton to blame the deficit on.

[jdj]

26. just when I think I can't get any more depressed.

I have never even thought of that.

Is that why they let us live? because they know we'll make them tons of money and while they are on their vacation terms...

just when I thought I had heard it all.

[pretzel4gore]

65. if you calculate the waste....

china's military budget is $45 billion...less then a tenth of USA's....fact is, weaponry is so terrible any modern society really can't be beaten on any old military terms (you basically got to kill everyone) the Chinese know this, thus....'war' being politics by another means, retreats to the courts, diplomacy etc (where 'leftists' and 'peaceniks' etc say is where disagreement should be worked out all along!)...therefore, if you deduct military waste from global national product, and all the hidden cost (35 years ago, one big reason to stop military spending increases was to prevent 'tooling' the economy up in a way that served only one purpose: war, or waste) which necessitate tax burden and protectionism and so on...the depressing thing is that for a couple trillion we could have large colonies on the moon/mars and in space...we could solve all illnesses, establish global standard of living floors, create large reserves for wildlife, stop pollution and so on....none of this can ever happen, because the reagan patriots feared communism (which wanted to do exactly the same thing, only w/out letting the pigs rule!)

[rman]

28. people might become suspicious

if to many well known people of a certian conviction end up suicided or shot down by a lone lunatic.
As it is, so many have already died like that, it's just that not all of them are well known.
The next best thing after assassination is political assassination, and it doesn't draw as much attention as actual assassination does.

[Is It Fascism Yet]

29. they DID assinate Clinton, they just decided to do a character assination

this time and avoid all difficult to subdue investigations.

[bklyncowgirl]

30. Going along with this conspiracy line--I'm not sure I believe it but...

Assassinating Clinton would have gotten them Gore who was not someone they could manage or influence.

I think that Clinton getting into the White House was a big blow to their plans--thank you Ross Perot--but out and out assassination just wasn't going to work. Character assassination had the advantage of tinging Gore, when he ran in 2000 with the same brush.

Besides, Clinton gave the NAFTA and GATT--a Republican couldn't have gotten those through Congress. Has anyone ever noticed that once the trade agreements passed, the trickle of accusations regarding Clinton's personal conduct became a flood until he was frankly overwhelmed by the need to defend himself against the indefensible.

I don't think that was an accident.

[B Calm]

31. Now you know why Al Gore didn't fight Bush's selection by SC..

[eek MD]

32. They thought impeachment would be enough to make him resign

That said, i'm sure many of the insiders wanted to have it done.... :(

[B Calm]

33. They never dreamed the impeachment ended up being an honor

a brave man that wouldn't resign, but instead stood up and stared into the face of the political right-wing hypocritical smear mongers who tried and failed to undermine democracy..

[MadHound]

43. Why should they?

After all, Clinton was a good corporate president. And he aided the military industrial complex at every opportunity. His corporate masters had nothing to be pissed at him about.

Of course the Republicans had good reason to be pissed, he was the model of the New Democrat that could keep them out of office for a long time. Thus, it was them who tried to rip him down. But the military industrial complex, no. Why should they kill the goose laying golden eggs?

[Frederik]

63. Not every opprtunity

Clinton reduced defense spending, which the right-wingers and military-industrialists never forgave him for. With Bush, they have gotten everything they asked for. PNAC's Rebuilding America's Defenses from 2000 calls for 3.5-3.8% of GDP to be dedicated to the military, and now they have 3.8% at least.

[MadHound]

68. Clinton reduced military spending by a relative pittance

A few billion at most. If you want the numbers, let me finish my coffee and I'll dig out the books. If you've got Howard Zinn's "People's History of the United States" look in the last few chapters, he's got the sad news there.

Clinton made a token gesture at delivering the peace dividend. Sad to say, it wasn't even enough to make a difference.

[Frederik]

73. Yes, I agree on that

It wasn't all that impressive, that peace dividend. But it wasn't very popular with the people who wanted to seize the opportunity of the end of the Cold War to assert US world domination.

[orpupilofnature57]

44. It's a wonder kkkarl doesn't stage fake attempt ,with Shrub cuffing the ..

Liberal bastard,they wont be able to assassinate Bill's presidency,Shrubs legacy a due punishment, worse than death.

[chieftain]

46. They did. It was character assassination rather than

the physical variety, but it was an assassination none the less. There is still a perception that the Clinton Presidency was scandal ridden, when all they were ever able to pin on the entire administration was Bill's colossal, self-indulgent dalliance with Lewinsky.

[reality based]

58. Yep

[ComerPerro]

51. There was no need to

Its better to pretend to be victims, and constantly attack and disrupt.

[UdoKier]

53. Why? Clinton was a moderate republican for all intents and purposes.

He slashed welfare, passes NAFTA, kept taxes low on the rich, used up plenty of weaponry on Iraq and Kosovo, so that the military could keep padding its orders. He kept military spending up, after implementing Bush 1's "peace dividend" cuts.

Her continued the 12 years of supply-side economic policy with only a tiny increase on the taxes of the rich to help cover the huge Reagan-Bush deficits. I don't see why the Powers that Be should have had a problem with Clinton. Like Kerry, he was a "democrat they could work with".

[Deja Q]

57. I'm not surprised:

NAFTA
DOMA
DMCA
55mph speed limit revocation
1996 telecom act
1995 welfare 'reform'
Jocelyn Elders


There are a couple mor emajor ones I'm not remembering right now...

All of those had massive repuke influence and Clinton was 'bipartisan'. Had Clinton been less of a 'centrist', he may have been a target.

[BiggJawn]

69. Poppy didn't need to. He thought Billy's Willy was gonna be enough.

And since Algore tried to run his campaign with a minor theme of "I only fuck my WIFE, unlike that OTHER guy!" there was no need to get one of Neil's friends to try and hit the Big Dog.

[Rich Hunt]

70. well...

The times were very different back then. And, of course, the Kennedys were Irish Catholics.

It's not as if they didn't try anything and everything to unseat Clinton though. But more than one presidential assassination in forty years would be a little suspicious.