Frist Fundy Sunday Event

[TornadoTN]

I am just learning a little more about this mass rally that Frist and his ilk are organizing around the country on Sunday. I guess I shouldn't be surprised that they are using religion (again) to promote one of the biggest assaults on our democracy.

My problem is this: If these churches officially sanction this event, why can their tax exempt status be revoked since they are actively participating in an effort to circumvent the constitution? I know that it wont happen, but I'm getting sick and tired of this assault from the right-wing. My wife and I go to church (although I have my reservations and problems with organized religion and the blatant farce that it has become. but I mainly go out of respect to my wife) and it seems that every Sunday that we attend, the sermon is a thinly-veiled attempt to criticize liberals or anyone that disagrees with our current administration as well as attack people of other faiths, mainly Islamics. The right-wing is using these people to promote their hate-filled agenda under the guise of "morals". What they are doing is taking away our democracy and turning us into a facist theocracy.

I would be scared to use the name of God or Jesus to promote an agenda that is based solely on lies and misconceptions. Of course, I have a conscience and a mind that has not been corrupted by the right-wing or the church. Thinking for yourself is a good thing and I like to believe that whatever God(g) you worship intended you to use logic and question things as a means to higher learning and bettering your self.

[FreedomAngel82]

1. I was wondering about that the other day

I hope my preacher doesn't talk about it. I've never had any problem with him talking about things that aren't Biblical. I think if a church does get involved in politics they should get their tax exempt taken away. It's crossing the seperation boundry. So aren't they doing something illegal?

[in_cog_ni_to]

2. If I were sitting in a church, listening to a sermon

criticizing liberals and supporting the chimp...I would stand up and leave and NEVER go back. I would make damn sure the minister knew why too. That is uncalled for and he should be reported for having a political agenda and not paying taxes. :grr:

[TornadoTN]

3. Agreed, but

Trust me, I would like to never go back myself, but my wife (who is liberal like myself) feels like she needs to go to church just for herself, not to pay attention to the minister. I go out of respect for her, and it usually gives us a real lively conversation at lunch!

Plus, the minister knows where I stand politically. I have let it be known that what he is saying is just plain wrong and lies (when its political, not religious, I don't debate religion in church) after church out of respect. When you are living in eastern Tennessee, this type of thing is very common. There is noone to go to about the tax exempt issue, and if you do, you will get the typical "you dont love America or God" response. Not worth my time.

But, I have seen a lot of positives around the area that lead me to believe that the Christian support for Bush is eroding ever so slightly.

[AValdoux]

4. Tax Exempt - the solution

I think this is the solution to fighting these organizations. They are raising money in churches for this cause. This is differnt than raising money for orphans and giving it to an orphanage you get kickbacks from. This is trying to change our government so isn't the money going to end up in politicians hands?

I beleive if you went after some of these mega churches and threatened their tax exempt status, they would slink back under their rocks. They aren't in this for the issues they claim. They are in it for money. We can't fight them on the issues because we come off as satanic pedophile terrorists. Go after what they are really about, threaten their money, legally. They will reveal their priorities quick if they think they will lose their tax exempt status.

Can you imagine the church hosting this saying, "We feel strong enough about this issue to fight it fairly. We will give up our tax exempt status and pay our fair share of taxes on all fund raising from now on."


AValdoux

[TornadoTN]

7. Level Playing Field

That is the best solution, especially in areas where more moderate heads prevail. I think that our friends in conservative, deep red states are going to have a harder time with this, simply because enforcement is an issue that is going to get tricky. Plus, Mega-Churches are only part of the problem. Right-Wing organizations are constantly setting up exhibits in lobbies of churches, passing out pictures of aborted fetuses during services, collecting money for organizations that are clearly affiliated with the right wing agenda.

I dont have a problem with people giving to these organizations, but just because you think that these organizations represent what YOU think is proper "christianity", doesn't make it true. Plus, doing this during church is just bad taste, period. wrong time. wrong place.

Church has devolved into a hate and scare mongering instead of the beauty that it was originally intended.

[chomskysright]

5. write and thank the presbys who are laying into these hypoChristians...

ask and support the Presbys: here: http://www.pcusa.org/form2mail/Form2MailCtrl

As I noted below, the Presby church USA is in Louisville----where the same fundie meeting is taking place.

Plus, Frist is Presby: SHAME HIM.










Hello West Asheville Presbyterian church and other Presbyterians throughout the United States:



I've known some fine Presbyterians in my time. THANKS TO THE PRESBYTERIAN CHURCH LEADERSHIP for this on the front page of today's New York Times:

Remember this: FRIST IS A DIVIDER though he be a Presbyterian.

Moreover, per your web page and as associated with your fine Social Issues: http://www.pcusa.org/101/101-social.htm

Social Issues
The General Assembly: Affirms.....its responsibility to speak on social and moral issues ....Reminds the churches that their duty is not only to encourage and train their members in daily obedience to God's will, but corporately to reveal God's grace in places of suffering and need, to resist the forces that tyrannize, and to support the forces that restore the dignity of all men as the children of God, for only so is the gospel most fully proclaimed;

thank you for your hard work, Presbyterian Churches of America. I hope, that since you are in Louisville, KY, where Frist's divisive meeting will take place, that you will have something to say about this matter come this Sunday, April 24th, 7 p.m.





Sincerely,


NY Times today, front page:

Religion at issue in judicial fight
by David D. Kirkpatrick and Sheryl Gay Stolberg

"....Among those scheduled to speak in the conference call is the Rev. Clifton Kirkpatrick, a top official of the Presbyterian Church U.s.A.

"One of the halmarks of our denominations is that we are an ecumenical church," Mr. Kirkpatrick said in an interview on thursday. He also said

Elected officials should not be portraying public policies as being for or against people of faith......"

[TornadoTN]

8. Frist is a joke

Most everyone in Tennessee (at least the moderate republicans, independents and democrats) wonders why the hell this guy was elected. He has done nothing for Tennessee, represents nothing that is in our best interests and has yet to try to find out what the majority of Tennesseans believe and how they feel on any particular issue. He rarely, if ever, goes around the state. From what I understand, Gov. Phil Bredesen was going to make sure that we had a viable Democrat running against him in 2006, if he chose to run again. He chose not to when he was annoited as the golden boy of the GOP (about the same time when his polling numbers in TN dropped into the 30% range)

He is the Republican equivalent of a wind-chime. He only sways right, but he sure can wiggle back and forth.

[AlCzervik]

6. Frist and Dobson and the other nuts are high jacking Christianity

I'm not into organized religion myself but i do have sympathy for Christians that are getting bent over the table. I haven't seen the media show the other side all they do is pay attention the the extremists.

[Terre]

9. Because this event bothers me so much. . .

I wondered why the Highview Baptist Church can still claim a tax-exempt status if they are promoting "politics".

Here is a good explanation of Church & Politics over at the Americans United website:

http://www.au.org/site/PageServer?pagename=resources_pastorsguide

Churches and other non-profit organizations that hold 501(c)(3) tax-exempt status must abide by Internal Revenue Service regulations barring any involvement in partisan politics. The blanket prohibition concerns only races for public office, not issues. Religious leaders may speak out from the pulpit or in other forums on moral and political issues.

*sigh* Oh well, can't say it wasn't a nice thought though.

[TornadoTN]

10. Ah, that explains it

Well, nothing like saying "Democrats are murderers" in church that says "we're not trying to effect public races"