Anyone else get a kick out of the Chinese government?

[Sean Reynolds]

These fucks bitch and moan about Japan's past human rights atrocities, yet they turn around and commit human rights violations on their own people.

Bunch of hypocrites and I can't help but laugh at these 'protests'. I feel bad for the Chinese people.

[Redstone]

1. They're a real piece of work, all right.

First they foment the "demonstrations," thenin the paper today it said they were telling the Chinese people to cool it.

They're a pack of fucking murderous thugs.

Redstone

[Warpy]

15. Um, do they remind you of somebody

in Washington, DC?

Remember, our demos have been peaceful. Theirs have been violent with a lot of property damage.

[Redstone]

102. Yup, they do. Good observation.

Redstone

[Name removed]

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[Sean Reynolds]

3. Excuse me?

I'm sorry, but governments that commit human rights violations shouldn't throw stones....or yeah...however that saying goes. ;)

It was bad what the Japanese did during WWII, however it's just as bad what the Chinese government does to its own citizens. But I guess that's ok, right?

[Maple]

4. No, you shouldn't

So stop throwing the stones.

[Sean Reynolds]

6. I don't commit human rights violations....

So I believe I have every right to speak my mind on this issue. I truly feel bad for the Chinese because their government is corrupt, and inhumane.

[Maple]

7. Your country does

every day, everywhere...in your name.

And the world sees your US government as corrupt and inhumane

[Sean Reynolds]

9. And so by your logic, no one can really talk 'bad' about the gov?

I mean people in Cuba can't really attack the US government, because they too live under an oppressed regime? What about people in England, whose government has allied themselves with the United States? Does that mean people in France can't say anything bad about the US government, because their government has done some shitty things in their past?

Sorry, but that point doesn't wash. I'm a citizen of America, but I'm entitled to speak out against MY government and any other government I feel is squashing human rights (something you can't do in China).

You need to realize there is a difference between the American government & American citizens.

[Name removed]

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[Maple]

17. Nooop

and take the hurt feelings elsewhere.

It means you don't get to call everyone else 'fucks' because you disagree with them.

[Sean Reynolds]

18. I'm glad you're ok with the Chinese government oppressing its people.

Now let's just hope you support American oppression as well...ya' know, gotta be consistent.

[Name removed]

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[HEyHEY]

38. Stop killing baby Iraqis!

[Name removed]

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[ClarkUSA]

36. Um, Taiwan is pretty fascist and most corrupt while PRC is communist

and most corrupt.

Have you ever lived in either country or known people from either nation?

[w4rma]

46. I have zero problems with the *people* in either nation. It's the fascist

Chinese *government* that is the problem and they are oppressing their own people in addition to building up power for their government's expantionist pipe dreams.

As far as Taiwan goes, the party currently in power takes care of their citizens and I've seen nothing at all totalitarian about the Taiwan majority party, although the minority party worries me a bit.

[ClarkUSA]

81. Are you sure you're not talking about Bush/PNAC?

"Chinese *government* that is the problem and they are oppressing their own people in addition to building up power for their government's expantionist pipe dreams."

LOL! Sorry, but I have PNAC on the brain.

BTW, do you live in Taiwan or ever known people who live there or are friends with Taiwanese? They are fascist. Always have been. And they are corrupt. In the last election, votes could be bought by the majority party for $100.

But hey, who are we to talk, with the bunch we have ruling this country?

[smirkymonkey]

23. Thank you for introducing some logic into this thread.

[KlatooBNikto]

14. I think your outrage would be better directed at our own Fuehrer who

has declared the Geneva Convention on the treatment of prisoners null and void ( quaint is the word he uses).He has also invaded a country without provocation, an act our own prosecutor at the Nuremberg Tribunal called illegal and called for the death penalty to the Nazis who invaded Poland, Czechoslovakia and other countries.

When it comes to atrocities, we are novices compared to the Japanese.
The Imperial Army had orders to shoot to kill every man, woman and child in Nanking.Their brutality was so intense and uninhibited that the Nazi Ambassador to China, not a squeamish person when it comes to brutality, was forced to report to the Fuehrer how brutal the Japanese were and asked for intervention on behalf of the Chinese civilians.If things turn for the worse in Iraq, we can expect our own megalomaniacs to order similar treatments to Iraqi civilians.That will, of course, be presented as another glorious episode in the march to freedom and democracy.

[Sean Reynolds]

16. Who says I haven't directed my outrage toward Bush?

I have. However that doesn't mean I can't look past America and toward China's utter hypocrisy on this matter. How many times have I seen posts from American DUers talking badly about Israel's government? Or other right-wing governments throughout the world? This is a discussion forum and I'm only discussing the holes I see in Chinese government sponsored protests.

[KlatooBNikto]

20. As I noted in my post, the brutality of the Imperial Army on the east

coast of China ( in Liao Ning Province for example) is still remembered by old survivors and their relatives.Bad as our own atrocities in My Lai and Fallujah and other places were, they are no match for the Japanese Army's deadly march through China. China can be forgiven for remembering those atrocities which ,true to all conquerors, Japan is now trying to portray in a benign light.

[Sean Reynolds]

21. But the problem here.....

If the Chinese cared so deeply about the crimes toward their people, why are they oppressing their own? I understand still being sour over what Japan did, however the government should also look at their own actions before condemning Japan. Just like the American government should look at their own actions before condemning many other nations.

[KlatooBNikto]

25. What kind of oppression are you referring to? Economic,political or

sheer brutality of the scale I have mentioned?

[Sean Reynolds]

98. I'm not getting into a pissing match with you....

Both countries have a brute history. But it doesn't change the fact that China has stripped its people of their freedom. It doesn't change the fact that the Chinese government has killed citizens for protesting.....

China is still a very oppressive nation and I don't understand how they can attack Japan for crap when they're doing it to their own people.

[Name removed]

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[Sean Reynolds]

103. LOL!

Is that "MY" human rights record? No. It's my government's record. I've never once endorsed the crimes of my government and I'd of thought you would have the brains to separate citizen from 'crime'. Let me guess, you believe that every German is a Nazi? And that every English man a tyrant, right?

[catastrophicsuccess]

104. Think about it

So China's human rights record is the fault of its citizens, but the USA's isnt the fault of its citizens. All i am saying is you cant have it both ways.

Those Chinese criticizing Japan are doing the same thing you are. They are criticizing another country even though there own country has huge problems. Get it?

[Sean Reynolds]

105. Whoa, step back.

Who said China's human rights record was the fault of its citizens? I never said that, in fact I side with the Chinese citizens because I think they're getting a raw deal.

[catastrophicsuccess]

107. Read the latest reports

These are real protests by ordinary citizens. Actually i think the protests took the government by surprise, in the past they were government organized and very tidy. Dont you see how you are being hypocritical? Both the USA and China have horrible human rights records, but you can criticize other countries, and they cant? Sorry i dont get it.

[Sean Reynolds]

108. That is not what I heard....

To protest in China you must have the consent of the government....so that means the government ok'd these protests.

[catastrophicsuccess]

109. I fail to see why that is relevant

They are protesting. You are protesting. You are both citizens of countries with horrible human rights records.

[Sean Reynolds]

110. Except, their protest was endorsed by the government.

THAT'S my problem. Not that the people were protesting, but that the government endorsed it....that, to me at least, is hypocritical of the Chinese government.

[JohnLocke]

120. That wins the award for most incoherent post of the night.

Congratulations.

[Name removed]

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[catastrophicsuccess]

129. Care to elaborate?

I read it and i can see a missing '?'. Other than that looks ok to me. Not Shakespeare or anything.

[MADem]

134. Hey, 'President' Reynolds, get off your ass

...and pass a DU membership tax cut, oh, and get those troops out of Iraq while you are at it...come on, chop, chop!!!!

I can't understand people who hate, rail at, or assume that the policies of a government are shared by every single one of that government's citizens. Such a lack of logic in their thinking!

[twenty4blackbirds]

74. rating system for atrocities?

... there oughn't be a 'rating' system for atrocities before people are 'outraged'.

The PRC government isn't very amusing. Neither is the fact of Japan & Japanese goverment consistently refusing to deliver an apology for the Rape of Nanking. http://www.tribo.org/nanking/
(Please correct me if I'm wrong, as it's not nice to walk around holding the wrong history in my head.)

I tried to read the book, but found it too harrowing - it explained a phrase I'd heard in my childhood. The phrase makes me bilious*.

I'm unsure Japan refusing to apologise for wartime atrocities is comparable to the Jewish Holocaust nay-sayers. I'm not qualified for that judgement. Both make me queasy.

Not only Chinese women, but European women and Korean women were forced to be 'comfort' women to the Japanese army during their conquest in World War II. Please correct me if you have heard of Japan apologising for that.


Footnote:
* "pi-pi kan" translating to "I want a look" - a phrase a Japanese soldier would say. A fleeing Chinese woman would be chased, pinned down, her trousers pulled down, then raped by the group of Japanese soldiers, then killed with a bullet to her head. Variation: after the rape she'd flee, and be shot by the group of Japanese soldiers. The implications of the rape is worse than I can describe in a simple post.


(de-lurking because this discussion seemed to be on the road to trivialising the badness of the bad actions of bad people)
(Edited for spelling)

[Name removed]

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[Selatius]

5. A wrong should never be answered with another wrong

[Maple]

8. Charming sentiment

Not realistic, but very charming

[Selatius]

24. Could you please elaborate on your statement.

Do you justify things such as the death penalty? Do you believe in the sentiment behind "an eye for an eye"?

[JVS]

22. Do they have Canada by the short and curlies too?

[KlatooBNikto]

26. One of the most celebrated Western person in China is Norman Bethune,

a Canadian, who went to China to provide medical assistance to the People's Liberation Army during Mao's Long March. I have personally seen his pictures given the same prominence in many homes that Chairman Mao commands.So, to answer your question, the attitide of the Chinese toward Canada is very different, simply because of the spirit of service and sacrifice Norman Bethune brought to China in its hour of crisis.

[JVS]

28. That doesn't answer the question at all

Having someone by the "short and curlies" is a matter of power, not a matter of how much you are liked. Put bluntly: what strength does Canada have that the US doesn't when it comes to being independent of Chinese domination?

[KlatooBNikto]

31. Canada is not an imperial power and is not distrusted by Chinese.

That should be enough of a difference in my opinion.But, if you want to put it in money or resource, Canada's Tar Sands in Athabasca, Alberta, hold as much oil as Saudi Arabia and the Chinese are very interested.

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[KlatooBNikto]

33. Bingo! Now , by reflex, you have made apparent why the Chinese people like

Canadians.

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[KlatooBNikto]

37. What has Canada done to provoke the US?Does Canada pose the same threat to

the US that Iraq did?

[HEyHEY]

45. Crushed? You can't stabilize Iraq

And we have a technologically advanced air force and navy plus what's regarded as the best trained military in the world.

It would not be as easy as many Americans like to think.

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[CHIMO]

61. Let Me Know

What it is that you would destroy. I think that it would be pretty hard without biting yourself in the ass.

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[JVS]

84. And saying "They have you by the short and curlys so play nice"...

is the same.

[ClarkUSA]

91. I thought it was said in a half-joking manner.

You know how the internet obscures sardonic humor. But you came off bullying. Maple sounded teasing. I woudn't have said either remark. But attacking Canadians as some have is below the belt and doesn't get us support - it just makes DUers second-cousins to freepers.

[JVS]

92. I think your interpretation is incorrect

I saw nothing in Maple's comment and in the latter posts with Sean to indicate any joking nature. If he gives crap, he'll get crap

[ClarkUSA]

95. Okay then. But I can only speak for how I interpreted things.

Bullying remarks are always ugly and saying that the U.S. can crush Canada anytime is nasty. It gets us nowhere.

The fact is that Japan holds more U.S. Treasury notes than China, anyway.

[Jose Diablo]

93. Good point.

Maybe China and Japan need someone to mediate the dispute. Oil and natural gas they say. Hmmm, how much is there?

[CHIMO]

35. Forget China's Investment

In the oil sands. I don't think thank they would be willing to invest the billions required, only to be subject to the NAFTA rules that could cut off the flow of oil in any shortage.
China is not rushing into anything.

[HEyHEY]

41. However the quality of oil is not nearly as good

Thus costing more to refine

[HEyHEY]

43. For some fucked up reason - we give china aid money

So, Canada is giving aid money to a repressive regime... :wtf:

[ClarkUSA]

48. No. Canada has had a budget surplus during the last few years.

But then again, they don't have insane megalomaniacal PNACers who are deliberately trying to "Starve The Beast."

[HEyHEY]

50. So much so our government's been taking extras!

[JVS]

63. This might come as a surprise, but when push comes to shove...

the opposing countries don't get out the books and say, "See there, we're in the black, you're in the red, we win"

Canada's economy and the US' are so tightly bound that a collapse of the US economy would also be devastating to Canada. To pretend that China could send the US to hell in a handbasket while Canadians sit by comfortably is insane

[HEyHEY]

49. Whether or not anyone has anyone by the pubes

I personally refuse to make nice with any repressive government merely because of the financial benefits.

[The Straight Story]

65. So, do you see any negative in reagrds to china yourself?

I can - as well as US, and many other countries....

[Redstone]

11. Uh, Sean, and selatius?

Don't waste your breath. There are some people who refuse to blame anybody except America for anything, any time.

Friendly advice: Let it go. I'm going to.

Redstone

[Maple]

12. Mmmm no

People don't blame America for everything.

But they do find the hypocrisy amazing.

[ClarkUSA]

57. I do too. And I'm an American.

This type of ego chauvanism is unfortunate but nor surprising. Too bad liberal Democrats in this country can be as ass-backwards as any freeper.

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[CHIMO]

27. No. Not Really

After the Red Brigade and everything else. Seems like maybe they speak with one objective.

I don't think China Inc.(Wally World) is too worried.

[HEyHEY]

39. Or tibet, another fine example

[ClarkUSA]

40. The Dalai Lama has said he wants Tibet to remain a part of China

[Selatius]

42. Do most Tibetans agree with him?

[ClarkUSA]

51. The Dalai Lama is their "Pope" so to speak and there has been no protests

since his remarks last month.

[Selatius]

52. Doesn't really answer the point of the question though.

People have the choice of agreeing or disagreeing with the Dalai Lama on any point.

[ClarkUSA]

59. Why don't you go ask a Tibetan or arrange to travel to Tibet and get back

to us here?

What you are saying is patently obvious - you are rejoining my factual statements
with these thinly-veiled hostility.

You ask questions. I answered. You want more? Go do some research.

[w4rma]

66. You research. Start here.

http://www.freetibet.org/

[ClarkUSA]

77. I was involved way back when before there was a website.

Don't need to read it. Met the Dalai Lama a few times on both coasts. Also travelled to Tibet with a friend for a buying co-op founded there by my friend.

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[ClarkUSA]

99. I am not the one presuming omniscience about another's intentions...

so I feel quite adult, thank you.

I meant there was no hint of any kind of protest against what the Dalai Lama said anywhere, inside or outside of Tibet; I did not mean protest against the Chinese government in Tibet.

I have no dog in this fight. I have more immediate worries, namely this fascist dictatorship we live in. There are political prisoners everywhere. Besides, unless
Tibetans feel strongly enough to rise up, nothing will change. The Dalai Lama has rethought his position. As I said, more Chardonnay-sipping Westerners care about Tibet's independence than Tibetans. Travel there and see.

It's goodhearted of you and others to care, though.

[Selatius]

97. I mean absolutely no hostility when I ask this question.

The point of the question is what do Tibetans want. The Dalai Lama has said where he stands on it. What have the Tibetans, as a people, stated on the issue? Has there been a plebescite, for instance? The truth is the question remains unanswered because no one has yet asked them. You simply threw out an answer to a different question than the one posed. There is no reason for me to be hostile over that.

[ClarkUSA]

111. Prior to the annexation by the PRC, Tibet was a strict theocracy

not known for its people-power, so to speak. Thus no plebescites. No polling.
Ever. On anything. Certainly not now as an autonomous region of China. The vast majority of Tibetans take the words of the Dalai Lama very seriously as is their tradition.

[HEyHEY]

44. So, he's the final word on everything I suppose - Tibet residents

Don't matter?

AS well, why is he saying that? Perhaps to avoid slaughter?

[Name removed]

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[w4rma]

55. You're being disingenuous.

What the Dalai Lama *says* and what the Dalai Lama and the people of Tibet believe, on this subject, may be very very different.

Politics works that way.

In fact, everything I've read about the Taiwan people says that they do *not* like being occupied by China.

[mmmbeer]

64. exactly- the Dalai Lama is just being realistic. nt

[ClarkUSA]

68. Have you asked him?

[mmmbeer]

80. Now that's just juvenile

Obviously I haven't- I'm just expressing an opinion of why the Dalai Lama has come to adopt such a viewpoint given the circumstances. But then, I think you knew that, and you're just going for a cheap shot.

[Name removed]

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[w4rma]

69. 40."The Dalai Lama has said he wants Tibet to remain a part of China" (nt)

[ClarkUSA]

71. So? That's factual.

Gimme a break. When you accuse someone of lying, get YOUR facts straight.

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[NNN0LHI]

47. I have a better idea. Fuck both the Chinese and the Japanese governments

The people in both countries are fine. But both their governments blow. Just like in America.

Don

[mmmbeer]

62. Agreed! nt

[mmmbeer]

60. Agreed- the Chinese government are fascist fuckers.

One of the few governments that sucks even harder than the Bush misadministration.

[ClarkUSA]

70. Communists are at the opposite political spectrum as fascists.

Technically, Communists are far left, fascists are far right as in reichwingnut or Nazis.

Fascists hate communists and communists detest fascists. The two types of government are quite dissimilar. The Bush administration is much more fascist than China and China's economy is definitely no longer governed by Communism and is more free market than most so-called democracies right now.

[mmmbeer]

72. I fully realise that- but I don't believe the Chinese government

even qualifies as communist any more. The much lauded "economic reforms" have simply transformed them from a communist to a fascist dictatorship, with capitalism increasingly flourishing but the government retaining dictatorial control- hence my choice of words was deliberate and I stand by it.

[ClarkUSA]

76. Hmm, I disagree.

The hallmarks of fascism are not there.

Not all dictatorships are fascist. Just ask those who lived under Mao Tse Tung or Stalin.

[mmmbeer]

78. Again, I fully realise that.

But the current Chinese government is far from anything I would imagine Mao or Stalin as having endorsed. Personally, I believe the combination of dictatorship, corporate crony capitalism and chauvinistic nationalism justifies my- admittedly loose- classification of the Chinese government as a fascistic regime.

[ClarkUSA]

89. I understand the sentiment.

It seems Russia would fall into this category, too, then.

[fujiyama]

94. So is the pseudo communist

system that exists currently any better than the previous one?

The hallmarks of fascism do indeed exist in China and I'm amazed that we have people defending the Chinese government on this website.

Let's see, China is at the moment at a rapidally expanding nation with imperialist tendancies. They have one party authoritarian rule, and in the current state, multinational companies rule. That doesn't sound very communist to me. At this point, the hammer and sickly are mostly a show piece. They are spending a massive amount of their GDP on military spending. Also, maybe it's worth mentioning their nuclear and missile technology proliferation to Pakistan?

O h, but as long as they hate the Bushies, it's all right, right? Oh, wait, according to some here though, only the US has imperialist tendancies.

Yes, Taiwan has had an ugly past and did have dictators supported by RWers here in the US, but at the moment Taiwan is much more democratic than China. Therefore, they do deserve the support of the West. Also, I'm amused by how you note that some in Taiwan are sabre rattling, but fail to mention China's own threats in recent weeks.

You know it is possible to oppose both the US and Chinese governments?

I see faults in both this fascist administration here at home and the FASCIST Chinese government.

[ClarkUSA]

139. I believe the proper disignation is quasi-Communist

No one is defending the Chinese government. You are jumping to the wrong conclusions and being a bit ridiculous about your assumptions as well as patronizing. In fact, I agree with your first post on this thread. If China really hated the Bushies, they'd stop subsidizing Bush's deficit. Remember, these are people who admire Nixon.

China has no more imperialist tendencies than Japan at the moment. See Japan's recent grab to annex disputed islands with gas/oil prospects in East China Sea.
During the North Korea talks, China said that the U.S. has the responsibilty for carrying the lead, not China. The one-party authoritarian rule is no surprise, given its communist past. Where do you get that multinational companies "rule" China or is it just your opinion? That's news to me, given that very few people understand the inner workings of Chinese power dealings. The USSR spent much more of their GDP on military spending and they were avowedly Communist, too.

As for Taiwan, its leader has been needlessly provocative and many in Taiwan don't even agree with him. China has always had the same position, which I don't agree with, btw.

However, I do not agree that the Chinese government is fascist; in a purely academic sense, they are a variation on communism that is peculiarly Chinese.

[catastrophicsuccess]

140. Why would you say

that China has "imperialist tendancies"?

[Darranar]

87. There are few differences between state-sponsored capitalism...

in China and state-sponsored capitalism in the United States. China calls their system communism; aside from that the two are rather close.

Stalinist "communism" is in effect identical to Nazism; a few economic differences exist, but both involve control of pretty much everything by a small group of people.

The Chinese regime is a vicious violator of human rights; admittedly, so is the US government, though the US is less oppressive of its people and more of large portions of the rest of the world.

It would be good news if both countries experienced radical political change.

[ClarkUSA]

90. Brilliant.

I agree completely. Add in Russia, too. They started choking off oil to the Ukraine in retaliation for Yushenko's break to the West. Let's not even start with what happened to that Chechnyan leader.

[JohnLocke]

113. I think the best word to describe it is "deformed workers' state."

"Deformed workers' states are states where capitalism has been overthrown through social revolution and the property forms have changed into a collectivized planned economy, but where the working class has never held political power (as it did in Russia shortly after the Russian Revolution). These workers' states are deformed because their political and economic structures have been imposed from the top (or from outside), and because the people have no real power. A deformed workers' state is an incomplete form of socialism--it has a planned economy, but not the democracy that is necessary for any fully socialist system."
--Wikipedia

[Darranar]

115. No, China does not qualify any more. Several decades ago it may have...

but not with the economic changes since Mao.

[JohnLocke]

116. The changes in China are frightening.

*An authoritarian but relatively stable government with a rising economy
*Diplomatic relationships with nearly every country, and a permanent seat on the UN Security Council with veto power
*Great demand for and production of consumer goods
*A large military with multiple weapons of mass destruction and an ongoing naval modernization that will allow it to challenge our Third and Seventh Fleets in the Pacific
*The lifting of the European Union arms embargo

This is frightening stuff. We are watching another superpower grow before our very eyes.

[catastrophicsuccess]

117. Whats so scary ?

The world could use a balance if you ask me.

[JohnLocke]

118. Gee, I dunno.

World War III, maybe? :eyes:

[catastrophicsuccess]

119. Oh lemme guess

You one of those folks who wants to end the world over Taiwan?

[JohnLocke]

121. Say what? (nt)

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[JohnLocke]

125. Simple.

A few ways.
1) North Korea invades South Korea. The U.S. defends South Korea. The Chinese enter the war on the North Korean side. We have the Korean War redux, but worse.
2) (most plausible) China is provoked and invades Taiwan. The U.S. defends it. We have an instant clash of superpowers.

[catastrophicsuccess]

127. So would you support defending Taiwan from China?

Don't think China would support N Korea in your scenerio btw...

[JohnLocke]

128. Obviously.

Yes. If China invaded Taiwan, I would support defending Taiwan from totalitarian aggression.

[catastrophicsuccess]

131. What if China was a democracy? n/t

[ClarkUSA]

130. No way.

1. North Korea and South Korea have been kissing up bigtime lately.

2. Taiwan is not that stupid to provoke China and Bush administration has more self-interest in perserving status-quo with China than starting a war when it is bogged down trying to turn the Middle East into a big Exxon-Mobil gas station.

[JohnLocke]

136. Hey, I said possible, not probable.

I fear another cold war far more than an actual shooting war. We shall see.

[Sean Reynolds]

101. China is not communist.

Communism's ideology has its roots in the workers plight. Chinese government has done NOTHING to combat poverty and has stifled workers rights. That goes against everything communism was built on.

[JohnLocke]

114. See post #113 (nt).

[ClarkUSA]

126. Do you think the USSR was communist or any of the Eastern bloc countries?

How about Cuba? I assure you they were and are and you could say the same of all of them that you say about China.

The PRC was born as a communist country though when Marx wrote about communism, he had in mind 19th c. Russia. It is a communist country albeit
with traditional Chinese mercantile overtones and the echoes of traditional feudalism espeically in the countryside.

Regarding poverty in China:
China has had the highest GNP of any nation for over 20 years...there is no longer yearly widespread starvation as there was prior to 1949. BTW, Communism in theory is lovely but utterly flawed in practice due to the greed inherent in human nature. Marx was tilting at windmills.

China is going through their own version of The Industrial Revolution now,with similar abuses and excesses. There are many many former peasants who are now millionaires. The SEZ (Special Economic Zones) are bursting with prosperity. Every worker wants to work in them. More Chinese own cellphones than Americans per capita. Corruption is rampant but I can't feel superior given what a banana
republic the U.S. has become.

China is not a triple-distilled communist country as conceived by Marx but which country ever has been or will be? I mean, everyone says this country is a democracy, but is it really anymore?

[Sean Reynolds]

133. Not really....

The basic foundation of communism was to put power into the workers hands. Do you see that in China? I don't. Pay isn't great, the working conditions stink and the government oppresses the citizens. That isn't communism.

[Name removed]

132. Deleted message

Message removed by moderator. Click here to review the message board rules.

[fujiyama]

96. My take on this

I think there is some genuine rage and anger over the Japanese Imperial army's cruel and barbaric treatment of the Chinese. Japan has not yet apologized for its crimes and has given little if any in compensation to the Chinese and Korean victims. Worse yet, it is trying to deny what happened in the first place as evidenced by their recent textbooks.

The current revisionism among some in the Japanese government is very disturbing. It is worth noting that the current PM Kouzumi visited a shrine for war criminals several years ago.

That said, there is no doubt the Chinese government is using this to their political advantage. The PRC is exploiting this anger and using it to further consolidate its power. This happens in all countries, including the US. After all, Bush was able to convince over half that Saddam had something to do with 9/11.

[JohnLocke]

135. Thank you for a sensible post.

...in an otherwise insane thread. :)
:yourock:

[MADem]

137. Ah yes, the rise of NATIONALISM, all around

This one is strong, that one sucks, we are the champions...etc. etc. and so forth.

Funny, how that theme preceded both world wars...

[JohnLocke]

112. Psst.

http://www.democraticunderground.com/discuss/duboard.php?az=printer_friendly&forum=102&topic_id=1399314&mesg_id=1400470

I agree with you. :)

[genieroze]

138. Sounds like our government. eom

[Moderator]

141. Locking. Flamebait.