I know a fundy who thinks he is a moderate.

[Ladyhawk]

He doesn't realize that the Republican Party took a hard jaunt to the right and he is merrily following them down the path to destruction. What's worse, he is a college professor and should know better. Other profs have worked on him. A friend I know has worked on him. Mostly I've been a pain in the ass by simply being an atheist.

Three years ago, he invited me to the county fair with his family. I saw a Democratic Party booth and got excited.

"Oh, hey, all right!" I exclaimed. "I've been meaning to change parties for awhile." Yes, it took me awhile to wake up to what was happening.

"Isn't that the wrong booth?" the prof asked.

At the time I just shrugged off the implications of his question. "Hell, no! George W. Bush is evil. He has to go!"

Last October, this fundy finally tried to proselytize me and I've wondered ever since if the nicey-nice stuff was just an act designed to entrap me. I don't trust him anymore. Not one bit.

I've changed my mind when presented with undeniable facts. I admit it wasn't easy to overcome years of brainwashing. What I don't understand is how I did it. :shrug:

How do you convince a fundy that he is NOT a moderate? He thinks he is because he's maybe slightly to the left of other fundies he knows. Considering how far right the Republican Party is these days, that does NOT make him a moderate.

[democracyindanger]

1. What does he teach?

[Ladyhawk]

2. Music n/t

[democracyindanger]

4. Keep reminding him that it's a liberal art

[Ladyhawk]

7. LOL! My parents hated the name of my major: "liberal arts."

Seriously, they commented on it more than once. If I ever differed with them, they would call me a "liberal." Instead of questioning whether or not this was an insult, I would insist I was a conservative.

Man! Those neocons really knew what they were doing when they usurped certain words in the English language. Every time I read one of Sniffa's posts, he reminds me that the "L" word isn't bad.

[Hissyspit]

11. The term 'liberal arts' comes form the Latin 'liber,' meaning free...

Slaves in Roman society could learn about subjects with practical implications, but not learn subjects of persuasion, rhetoric, art, etc., so that they could possibly figure out that they were being held in an immoral state, and/or influence others on the same.

I guess your parents wanted you to remain in the slave state. Kind of shitty of them if you think about it...

[FreedomAngel82]

22. Yep

It makes me so mad that they made being a liberal and democrat evil. :mad: So from now on whenever someone tries to be little being a liberal and/or democrat I speak up and say how I'm proud to be apart of the democratic party and nobody is going to take that away from me.

[Jade Fox]

3. Here is my comment...

to another post, but I think it applies to this guy as well.

http://www.democraticunderground.com/discuss/duboard.php?az=show_mesg&forum=132&topic_id=1727487&mesg_id=1727518

[Ladyhawk]

5. That's very good. I like that. In fact, let me quote it here

for future reference:

Jade Fox said,

That's what gets me. These people have no real faith, in God or anything else. They are control freaks, and people lacking the self-esteem to be satisfied with living their own lives as they see fit.

I came across this wonderful quote this week:

Selfishness is not living as one wishes to live, it is asking others to live as one wishes to live.--Oscar Wilde.

[SouthernDem2004]

6. Maybe he is just a nice guy with different views. No need to distrust

someone just because you disaree with them on some issues. There are nice Republicans out there and most are not evil.

[Jade Fox]

9. See my quote above....

I work with Christian Fundamentalists, and even the nice ones have, IMO,
unhealthy reasons for choosing that strain of religion. Many of them seem
very insecure and unable to deal with life. A number of them are obviously
suffering from depression. Many have histories of unhealed substance
abuse (like our President), criminal pasts, and other major life issues. Most
of them need to be surrounded by only those who agree exactly with their
views in order to feel their views are valid.

[Ladyhawk]

14. True, that.

I'm a recovering fundamentalist. There's no way to even begin to tell in one post the damage it did. As a fundy, I was dangerous.

Being raised in a fundamentalist family is, in my opinion, inherently abusive. A good fundy parent can mitigate some of the damage caused, but any religion that teaches children they are inherently flawed (original sin) and must accept the blood sacrifice of God's only Son in order to be "good," is bound to create serious problems. Not only will the child suffer from low self-esteem, but also from immense guilt for having caused the death of Jesus by being impure.

Consider the lyrics from this fundy song:

And I'm the one to blame.
I caused all the pain.
He gave himself
The day he wore my crown.

Children of fundies grow up penalized from birth.

[SouthernDem2004]

16. I would have to disagree with your views on...

religion. I grew up in a very Catholic family and my wife was a member of one of those interesting Southern churches. We grew up without any problems just like the majority of people that grew up with a religious background. It goes back to my original point. All people are not the same be they Democrats or Republicans. All people are not harmed by religion or its beliefs. I am a big ol' heathen now but hold no ill will to the Church.

[Jade Fox]

19. Yikes, that song is scary!

Some of the saddest people I work with are the children of Fundamentalist
families who have never strayed from the fold. Now in the 20's and 30's,
they are people filled with resentment, and seemingly have no clue as
to why.

[SouthernDem2004]

17. That is generalizing. I know alot to, Heck I live in the South and most

are not that way.

[Jade Fox]

18. It's based on experience. n/t

[readmoreoften]

21. I lived in the south for 6 years and basically what I saw was

outrageous fundamentalist hate served with a smile. That's not 'nice', it's polite. When the smiling fundamentalists very politely hung the sign HONK IF YOU HATE GAYS over the 12th street bridge in Austin, they may have been very polite to other Christians, but they are not very nice to others. All the people who honked might volunteer to help the elderly on the weekends, but it doesn't take away from the fact that they still honked.

I don't recall a since pro-gay fundamentalist organization taking to the streets and calling these people on their hateful bigotry. Until they do, I'll call it like I see it.

[SouthernDem2004]

23. There are idiots in every group. When I attended Church wat back when

those types of idiots would not have been tolerated. There is just to much generalization going on.

[Ladyhawk]

10. Um, he promised never to proselytize me and then did.

That's a betrayal of trust and as such, it's a huge deal. I tried to "get over it," but my gut instinct is that he can never be trusted again. He may not be as bad as the fundies I grew up with, but breaking an important promise like that is not OK with me.

I know a lot of Republicans. I'm sorry to say that most of them do have evil tendencies. That isn't to say they're completely evil, but even before shrub came into power, when I was trying to repair rifts with my family, my counselor commented that they had "fascistic tendencies." One of the Repubs I knew is now Schwarzenegger's home-boy. He represents District One in California and he is as close to evil as you can get. My family campaigns for him.

I grew up in the world of fundamentalist Republicans and I can tell you that their beliefs warp their humanity and cause them to behave in ways that are dishonorable. Before I denounced fundamentalism, I did some pretty evil things in the name of my religion. For fundies, politics is part of their religion. The two cannot be separated. Dogma is dangerous and causes its inherents to act in dangerous ways.

[The Doctor.]

12. Thank you.

There is clearly an overt operation going on to keep people polarized in this country. That way there is unlikely to be constructive discourse.

So long as we are led to believe the 'other side' is irrational and unreasonable, we will reject their ideas and opinions out of hand.

Spend just a little while listening to Coulter, Limbaugh and even Malloy and you'd think that 'the other side' is comprised entirely of the minions of Hell.

Fact is, only a small number of people on either 'side' are really unreasonable. But because they are so vocal, they seem to represent al the ideals of their party or affiliations.

For a while I've posted on some 'conservative' sites where many people were open to rational debate, but a few zealots were more concerned with labelling people so they could ignore what they didn't want to hear.

On one of those sites, I have to use a ghost IP and post under a name they don't know because they didn't like what I had to say openly.

Ignorance will cost us.

[housewolf]

8. Keep referring to the Repubs as "radicals"

They are all radicals, they are calling for radical changes to government, policies, institutions and culture - there is nothing moderate about them in the least. Keep hammering it home that the Repubs today are radicals.

[Hissyspit]

13. 'Extermist' would be a better term; being a radical/radical is not ...

necessarily bad. Neither is extremism, but it has a much more negative connotation.

[immoderate]

15. Check your definitions.

I respectfully dispute your use of words here. Radical means "root." A radical would be someone who solves a problem by fixing the root causes of that problem.

Repubs are not radical. For instance, they would tell you that the problem with our society is that we don't pray enough. I don't think that's the cause of our problems.

--IMM

[housewolf]

20. I did check my definitions and I stand by my use of the word

While you are correct in that the genesis of the word "radical" means "root," there are additional meanings of the word, one of which is "extreme" (see adj 2 & 3 and noun 1). From Dictionary.com

radical
adj.
1. Arising from or going to a root or source; basic: proposed a radical solution to the problem.
2. Departing markedly from the usual or customary; extreme: radical opinions on education.
3. Favoring or effecting fundamental or revolutionary changes in current practices, conditions, or institutions: radical political views.
4. Linguistics. Of or being a root: a radical form.
5. Botany. Arising from the root or its crown: radical leaves.
6. Slang. Excellent; wonderful.

n.
1. One who advocates fundamental or revolutionary changes in current practices, conditions, or institutions: radicals seeking to overthrow the social order.



And Roget's thesaurus (http://www.bartleby.com/62/37/R1223700.html) offers the following:
radical

NOUN:
One who holds extreme views or advocates extreme measures: extremist, fanatic, revolutionary, revolutionist, ultra, zealot. See EDGE, CONCERN, POLITICS.
ADJECTIVE:
1. Holding especially political views that deviate drastically and fundamentally from conventional or traditional beliefs: extreme, extremist, fanatic, fanatical, rabid, revolutionary, ultra.
Slang : far-out. See CONCERN, EDGE, POLITICS.
2. Arising from or going to the root or source: basal, basic, foundational, fundamental, original, primary, underlying. See SURFACE.
2. Mathematics. The root of a quantity as indicated by the radical sign.
3. Symbol R An atom or a group of atoms with at least one unpaired electron.
4. Linguistics. See root1.

I stand by my use of the word - in my opinion, the repubuplicans in power today are radicals pushing a radical agenda.

[immoderate]

28. I think of myself as radical.

And I like to think that's a good thing. That is, solve problems at their cause.

--IMM

[housewolf]

29. It makes it so hard to communicate

when one word had different meanings that can be construed to have opposing meanings, doesn't it?

I believe in solving problems at their root causes, too.

Peace

[immoderate]

30. Yep.

--IMM

[Jamastiene]

24. You don't.

Simple as that. You can only state facts while he ignores them. These people are wanting to lean right so they will no matter what proof you show them. You can even point out that the far right has ties to nazis and even the KKK, and they will not budge. I severed ties to a person I used to be friends with because he insisted on voting for Bush no matter what I pointed out to him. He has been molded into a total right wing nut since moving down here. I sometimes get that feeling about people who move south on purpose. They kind of wanted to be what they see on television to begin with. I don't go for it. I know what the people on the far right are capable of and won't budge on my liberal voting or views.

And my biggest gripe with certain Christians (and I have heard of Muslims doing it too, but never personally experienced it from them) is proselytizing. I think that should be illegal if the person tells you they aren't interested and you continue to harrass them. As a matter of fact, if I knew of just one lawyer who would be interested in taking that all the way to the Supreme Court, I'd be their client hands down all the way. I have high blood pressure and after experiencing violence on more that one ocassion from fundamentalist Christians who would not just leave me be, I can feel my blood pressure and stress level going up when someone preaches at me. I think it should be illegal to do the proselytizing the same way it is illegal to yell, "Fire!" in a crowded place. I say leave a person alone if they ask you to. If they aren't interested, they aren't interested. That's one thing we have in America that separates us from all the other countries. We can believe in whatever we want to believe. The whole idea of trying to force someone to believe something they really aren't buying IS harrassment if you think about it. Hell, even in China, there are dissidents. Even in 1984, there was one man who didn't just allow himself to be steamrolled into believing whatever the latest line of thinking the government wanted him to believe. Some of us are just going to feel differently about whether or not there is a God. I can get along with some Christians on DU pretty well. I see someone like Jessie Jackson and I could listen to him and talk with him and feel perfectly comfortable, but when a fundy starts preaching at me, I just say to them now, "I'm so glad that as long as I refuse to let you beat me down, it ensures that I won't have to spend eternity with you." and walk away. That's the key. If you can walk away, you are better off for it.

And to Christians who feel the need to proselytize after the person has asked you to stop, I have this to say: If a person asks you to stop doing that and you feel the need to contiune, you should sit down and reexamine who your master really is. You are doing your religion a disservice, because IF you TRULY believe you are supposed to win souls to your God, you will NOT do it by threatening and harrassing people. That's not the way. They way is to lead them by example. Those are the Christians who might win ME over. They are the only ones I will talk to at all any more. It's just food for thought. It's all about attracting people in a way that meets their needs instead of cajoling, threatening, and harrassing. That's no way to help a person who needs simple love. Follow your leader and you'll do fine. Try that proselytizing bull and you'll get an earful from me. That't not a threat. That's a promise.

[RUMMYisFROSTED]

25. I know a moderate who thinks he/she is a liberal.

:patriot:

[Fescue4u]

26. lol...Everybody thinks they are a moderate

Its unusual that an extremist knows they are an extremist.

[bullwinkle428]

27. These types are everywhere...

Another site I frequent has a section where political issues are discussed is a place where several members of the flying monkey right continuously love to refer to themselves as "moderates", and ask why Democrats are so out of touch with the rest of the country...(like on the Schiavo case)...LOL!

[Warren DeMontague]

31. Moderate? Let me guess. He thinks gays should be re-educated instead

of put to death..

He thinks that the birth control pill should be illegal, but favors probation for first offender women who use it..

He thinks that evolution can still be discussed by the members of the science community; so long as they aren't within 500 feet of children or a public school.

He favors public stocks instead of whipping for crimes like blasphemy, swearing, and adultery.

Yep, sounds like a moderate to me!

[R. A. Fuqua]

32. the religion I grew up in (they would label

themselves as fundy--I would call them pseudo-Christian)--were not political at all.

participating in "things of the world" was discouraged and people who voted or were active in politics were either looked down on or activiely discouraged. We had an even mix of people who were right and left leaning (from what I could tell--discussion of politics was quite taboo).