They are deadly serious about our becoming a theocracy.

[madfloridian]

This is so long, just a few snips do not do it justice. I know two of the people quoted here, and they have no tolerance for dissenting views. I think that some of the "megachurches" are joining together.

I posted once that Southern Baptists were joining with other denominations, and Catholics to push their agendas. This is a Presbyterian church. Richard Land and Al Mohler are high up Southern Baptists.

http://washingtontimes.com/national/20050415-124649-3229r.htm

Justice Moore's monument is in this church in Florida.

"The 5,200-pound slab of granite bearing a replica of the Ten Commandments rests in isolated splendor, set off by red and blue nylon sheets, on a flatbed truck parked on the front lawn of a church. It's not just any church, either. Coral Ridge Presbyterian Church is a signature evangelical congregation in southern Florida — its gleaming white, 303-foot steeple visible for miles around. Justice Moore's monument is something of a piece de resistance in the renewed effort by Christians and others of faith to preserve the place of the Almighty in the public square."

SNIP.."In such a "God-blessed America," he says, streets and schools would be safe, divorce and illegitimate children would be rare, and the elderly would live with their families and not in nursing homes.
In an American society that preaches Judeo-Christian values, rooted in biblical theology, not all will be Christian, but they can at least live according to values," Mr. Land concludes.
The conference, designed to energize Christian activists, is the work of the Center for Reclaiming America (CRA), an eight-year-old public-policy group founded by Coral Ridge."

Very long, just a couple of paragraphs:
"Mr. Cass says his goal this year is to raise $2 million, including $1.2 million to finance the lobbying group and three other initiatives: media outreach, an online campaign called National Grassroots Alliance and a think tank, the Strategic Institute.

'Intellectually engaged'
The Strategic Institute, with a staff of five analysts, expects to enter the debate on pornography, homosexual activism, the creation-evolution divide and "life" issues such as abortion and stem-cell research. First to sign on is Kelly Hollowell, 40, a Virginia Beach patent attorney who taught bioethics at the University of Richmond and Regent University in Virginia Beach...."

Can't tell if Al Mohler spoke there, or just referred to. He is head of the Southern Baptist Seminary.
"In the past three years, Mr. Mohler dramatically increased his output of Internet and radio commentaries and newspaper op-ed pieces on topics such as stem-cell research, same-sex "marriage," human cloning and the definition of the family.


DR.Richard Land speaking in the sanctuary at the Reclaiming America for Christ Conference at the Coral Ridge Presbyterian Church in Ft.Lauderdale,Fla. Fla.
Joseph Silverman (THE WASHINGTON TIMES)

[bobthedrummer]

1. Look at that "sanctuary" in the church-it looks like something out of 1984

or THX1138-note the huge tv screens and use of staging in this "sanctuary" in Florida. I'd bet that Goebbels would be appreciative of it.

The RW American Taliban embraces technology and mind control imo.

[Tierra_y_Libertad]

5. But, it's well decorated in Trailer Park Roccoco.

And, well funded by the drooling bible thumpers who would throw Jesus out the door if he made an appearance. They sure as hell wouldn't appreciate having someone show up dirty, unshaven, homeless, and talking about the needs of the poor and outcast.

[bobthedrummer]

18. It's got lots of high-tech for folks that eschew high-tech in dogma.

Nice lighting.

[susanna]

74. That is a fascinating insight.

You are completely, utterly right. These people despise technology in any other venue...especially secular.

Wow. You really gave me something more to think about. Thanks!

[hootinholler]

57. Since I was raised white trailer trash

I am seriously offended that you would lump me in with these assholes.

You elitist prick.

-Hoot

[susanna]

72. "Jesus wept." n/t

[FreedomAngel82]

35. Only thing wrong with

his whole little statement is many people can't take care of elderly because they have their own families and jobs. There is nothing wrong with living in a nursing home. My dad is a deacon at our church and one of his jobs is to take the communion to people of our church who are in a nursing home and they have very nice homes and the nurses are very nice as well. People are busy with trying to survive today's world and the nursing home is there to help them take care of their loved ones while they are busy with their own families. I've tried aruging with republicans and it's just useless and ridiculous to try. I just want to bang my head into a wall. :banghead:

[EvolveOrConvolve]

59. For some reason

calling a gaudy, football field sized theater a "sanctuary" seems to kill the definition of sanctuary.

[susanna]

75. Rationality Alert!

I agree with you. I frequent smaller churches with real sanctuaries. The massive glitz-domes do not make me feel closer to God at all...much further away, in fact.

[Warpy]

2. Mr. Land needs to live with his mother in law

for about five years. Mr. Land needs first hand experience being the full time caretaker of a frail elderly person who can't bathe or toilet him/herself. Mr. Land needs to be the recipient of battery in an abusive marriage with no way out.

Mr. Land is a lunatic.

[Tierra_y_Libertad]

3. Praise Jeebus...and, pass the baskets to the suckers.

Only 2mil? This guy thinks too small considering the number of morans that will buy his snake-oil. He must be a beginner in the savior business.

I may be wrong but I'm beginning to think that the holy-rollers have reached their high-water mark and have lost their pious veneer. Between the Terri Schiavo fiasco and Frist's and DeLay's antics, the American people are beginning to realize that it's all a load of sanctimonious crappola run by greedy Jesus Jumpers and Taliban wannabees.

[SammyWinstonJack]

28. You got that right!

Self-righteous hypocritical snake oil salesmen conning the suckers out of their hard earned bucks under the guise of Christianity , morals and *cough* family values *cough* Much like what the chimp IS doing to the same suckers. What makes millions fall for this crap? :crazy: :banghead:

[Warren DeMontague]

51. I Hope You're Right.

I fear you aren't.

[seabeyond]

4. i am taking them seriously, i am watching

the invasion and they are not too awfully sudtle. yup

[MuseRider]

6. Me too.

They are cranking up here in Kansas in a big way and I am at a loss at how to combat those who will not listen and do not use logic to determine an answer to a problem. They are very scary.

[seabeyond]

9. you have in kansas, not too far from me the other way

what dude do you have. you hvae the guy that puts hate out in front of his church and his daughter mouths

oh and you all just had the marriage act

[MuseRider]

14. You mean Phelps?

He is nothing, really his church is just a small thing but very loud and obnoxious. His involvements(White Supremacists etc) are far worse than he is. We have a big group growing and spouting off in Wichita and in Overland Park and they are causing a lot of trouble. I read once somewhere that about 20 years ago these creeps decided that Kansas was a good spot to begin. First the school boards then on up. They have been slowly and for the most part under the radar screen been building steam and it is really beginning to show.

[mwdem]

21. Do you mean Jerry Johnston, here in OP?

We've been hearing way to much from this creep. I even suggested going to one of his services, but I don't think I could stomach it!

[MuseRider]

22. He and Fox are

worrisome. I can't imagine what goes on in those services. I don't think I would last very long without screaming.

[mwdem]

24. Johnston was quoted before the vote about the marriage amendment.

He said if it didn't pass, the gays would be free to push their agenda, even teaching homosexuality in elementary schools! Now, he feels the need to start in on abortion rights. The man is scary.

[MuseRider]

26. Abortion in next

and creationism and then they are going after fostering and adoption rights for the gay community. Kansas ranks very high in the number of gay families I believe it ranks #8. This will be a horrible battle. Also I think I remember reading that covenant marriage is also on the table. I won't run from the fascists but if these Talibornagains are allowed to take over this country I just might.

[mwdem]

27. I think it's high time we started a movement to tax the churches.

Hit 'em where it hurts the most. I know it will never happen, but I've been talking it up here, much to some of my so-called friend's dismay.

[MuseRider]

29. So far I think

they have been very careful not to overstep the rules. We looked into it here too but as long as they do not endorse a candidate specifically by name I think they are OK. So they have thought of ways around it, not too difficult. We need to come up with something to stop this though and logical thought has not been working nor has appealing to the compassionate side of religion. This has been about all I have been thinking about lately, how to break through this and I have come up with zip.

[mwdem]

30. Maybe I'll see you guys at the meetup next week...

I'm going to try to stop by. It's my husband's last day at work (he's been "restructured" out of his career after 27 years), so it's going to be a sad day.

[MuseRider]

33. That is very sad.

I am sorry, please tell him. On the other side, I do hope you come. That would be great to meet you. Maybe he would like to come too and it might cheer him up a little? Just a thought.

[mwdem]

34. We'll try.

Hope to meet you next week!:)

[Daphne08]

71. I agree! If they are going to be this involved in politics

they should be taxed!

[FreedomAngel82]

37. We should call them what they are

From now on when we're talking about these people we should call them for what they are. Neocon fascists. I've started doing that on this Christian board I frequent on so now I'm going to wait and see how they react to being called a facsists.

[MuseRider]

44. I am partial

to Talibornagains. They really do not like that very much. :)

Add to say, I do not call them that to their faces. I probably should but I do try to be better than them. That, however may change since being nice is getting us nowhere.

[FreedomAngel82]

36. One thing that makes

me want to pound my head into the wall is how they are with abortion and gay rights. I've tried aruging with them that it's none of their business to butt into my bedroom but they repeat the same old crap all the time. Abortion and gay's bad, killing Iraqi's good. I'll never understand. It hurts my head too much.

[Melynn]

41. Bloody Kansas

Didn't pro-slavery and anti-slavery fight it out in Kansas in the 1850's.

I wonder if the Christian Right and the non-Christian Right are going to fight it out in Kansas as a prelude to the next American Civil War.

The more things change.......

[MuseRider]

47. I for one,

would like to have a large enough coalition here in this state to actually make this the flash point. I do not mean the guns and raids of the 1850's but we need to handle this. We are working on it but I find that state wide coalitions are very different than city wide coalitions. We have a strong one here in our city but other than that it seems a bit scattered. We are working on it though. We need to all get together instead of being so fractured. Step one I guess.

[MoonRiver]

73. Interestingly, Kansas was against slavery.

That's where a common term in Kansas, Free State, originated. Missouri pro-slavery terrorists, particularly a gang known as Kontrel's raiders, savaged little Lawrence, the liberal mecca in Kansas, over and over. It's very sad to see how far in the opposite direction of progressive thought this state has gone. Lawrence, however, is still a liberal oasis.

[madfloridian]

7. Center for Reclaiming America is James Kennedy's group.

I truly do not like this man.


This is mentioned in the article.
http://www.reclaimamerica.org/

Note they brag about the new Florida abortion clinic regulations.

Note the obsession with judges, and how they don't agree with them.

[bear425]

15. I tried to listen to his sermon last weekend, *gag*

just to hear what the fundies are cooking up. He was really trying to rewrite history and teach his sheep his view of history. He was saying, essentially, that separation of church and state really was never meant to be and that Jefferson was misinterpreted. He was really denegrating and demonizing the ACLU, too. What I could bear to listen to didn't sound at all like a Christian sermon to me! These activist preachers are arrogant and out of control and must be stopped.

[SharonAnn]

19. So, he has never read Jefferson's writings or his edited Bible.

That should tell anyone what they need to know. The man is ignorant and ismaking things up.

[bear425]

53. I totally agree: ignorant and making things up to fit his world view.

He's very dangerous because he's being listened to; the place is packed every Sunday. I live nearby.

[FreedomAngel82]

38. If they are turning

their church into a political realm I think they should be taxed. They are getting involved in political things and why shouldn't they be taxed? I do have mixed feelings since I know not every church does this (mine doesn't) and it might be hard on them (especially small churches like my grandparents) but then I think of these people and I WANT to do that. Just so they'd shut up. Maybe they'd think it's a punishment from God or something. :shrug:

[SammyWinstonJack]

31. Ewwwwwwww!

Television preachers with bad hair and dimples......... Why do all these Con artists look sleazy and slimy? It couldn't be because they are, could it?

[checks-n-balances]

8. Recommended twice; do I hear a third?

Scary stuff, and they've been more under the public radar until the Schiavo case. This is a Presbyterian Church of America (PCA) church, which is different from the larger national Presbyterian Church in the U.S.A (PCUSA), which hasn't been taken over - yet, anyway - by the right wing. But they've been subtly chipping away at it for over 20 years.

They took over the Southern Baptists years ago and are going for control of all the major progressive-to-centrist mainline denominations.

[cornermouse]

10. Have you ever looked at these mega churches and

thought about how far away it is from what we were taught in Sunday School? Have you wondered if they have ever seen an real, living, breathing, poor person? Have you ever thought of all the money they poured into building that monument and wondered how many poor people they could have fed and clothed with all that money? Have you ever wondered how many people in those monuments even remember the real reason that they should be there?

[MuseRider]

17. We have a new one here

a BIG place and very obnoxious with electronic billboards, basketball courts (right on a busy street with LOUD christian rap that you can hear for blocks) and who knows what else. They stop traffic on that busy street whenever one of their services lets out. I have sat there for 10 minutes waiting to go and it really pisses me off that they have the right to drive while the rest of us "heathens" have to wait for them.

[bobthedrummer]

20. They are invested in high-tech crap not their worshipper's spiritual

needs, it's also a form of class warfare when you compare these megachurches to some storefront ministry in a central city that meets members spiritual needs without expensive gadgets.

It's disgusting to see such a lavish waste of technology on self-promotion of RW theocracy.

[MuseRider]

23. Yes it is.

The hell of it is, we have 4 churches on every corner it seems. Many of them are just Morton buildings with gravel parking lots. Some a bit better and some old and beautiful. This thing can be seen for blocks, it is tall with a large dome and a cross that seems to go up for miles. It is pretty strange to me to see this.

[FreedomAngel82]

40. There's that

"holier then thou" attitude they have. :eyes: Boy it burns me up and they claim to be Christians. :mad:

[MuseRider]

43. That loving look

of pity they save just for those of us who would rather keep our personal faith personal.

[orpupilofnature57]

46. Thank God for men like Robert Kennedy j.r, educating people on the...

Dominion theocracy for year's now.

[BR_Parkway]

54. I call them the Church of the Pharisees n/t

[goodboy]

11. In their utopia, there'd be no garbage men, nobody working at McDonalds

everyone would be lawyers and doctors and well-to-do business types.

[madfloridian]

16. And one could quit work to care for one's parents. In their ideal world.

I have been there with both my parents and one of my husband's parents. There is no way we could have managed to keep them at home. We would have had no income at all.

[onager]

12. Here's the main point, and I've been saying it for years...

In an American society that preaches Judeo-Christian values, rooted in biblical theology, not all will be Christian, but they can at least live according to values," Mr. Land concludes.

The Fundies don't give a damn whether or not we all convert to their wonky beliefs. But they want to pass laws that will make all of us ACT like Fundie Xians, with serious penalties if we don't.

The scary part is how well-funded and organized they are. They are attacking secular society on multiple fronts simultaneously.

A casual stroll thru the DU threads will show just how successful they are nowadays: the crackdown on abortion rights, the "right" of Fundie Fharmacists to not sell birth control, the "values" smoke-screen that the MSM is currently helping them pimp, the Creationism/Intelligent Design campaign, etc. etc.

[madfloridian]

13. Exactly! We will live by "their" values.

And they think that is just the right thing to do.

Disclaimer: I was a Southern Baptist. I know what I am talking about.

[onager]

65. Hey, I was an SoB too!

:toast:

[madfloridian]

68. I am still recovering.

I was raised there. It is not easy.

[lyonn]

25. That church looks so fine!

Looks like they are making too much money. Let's tax them and help pay for the war they love so much. Notice how much they are spending on politics, getting the churchs' msg. out and yet no taxing. What is wrong with this picture?

[Lydia Leftcoast]

32. Welcome to Tehran, U.S.A.

:-(

I feel as liberal Iranian Muslims must have felt when the Ayatollah Khomeini took over.

[bush_is_wacko]

39. They are indeed joining forces! I have been a victim

of their wrath when I spoke out unknowingly to the daughter-in-law of one of the leaders of one of these mega-churches. She slashed my tire and sabotaged my job as a result of me saying I was sick to death of churches "using" the bible to hurt people and condemn gays! This church is now joining forces with other churches in the area and they are beyond a menace to ANYONE that stands in their way and speaks out against them.

We are in big trouble, folks, if they have their way. I predict mass suicides and religious crusades are NOT that far off!

[FreedomAngel82]

42. Very scary indeed

She got violent? Huh. Sounds like how in Revelation it talks about false Christians and all that. Whenever I do read the book I do see why the Pope would think Bush is the anti-Christ.

[lyonn]

45. Those type churches scare normal/regular ones

Just thinkin'. Since I don't attend a church I am not sure, but, I once did and they were not spouting this stuff. And I'm talking Methodist, Morman, Unitarian. That was a long time ago and things very surely have changed according to this rhetoric. This babble that is coming from fanatics cannot be what so many religious people believe - - (hopefully) and that there will be a backlash real soon. Enough is enough, we the people can think for ourselves, the Schiavo case could be an example.

[bush_is_wacko]

48. While I agree with you that "normal" people who believe in the

existence of a higher power do NOT believe these people are speaking the words in the bible. Revelations DOES clearly say that there will be a time like this in our existence. I'm not sure when I believe that time will come, but I surely believe we have NEVER been this close to a time like that in history. I also USED to attend church and NO they never talked about this stuff. There are very few churches like that left from what I can tell. I have searched high and low for one around here and cannot find a single one that hasn't attempted to cash in on this legacy of fear at the moment!

[orpupilofnature57]

50. Revelations starts with a warning about the severity in punishment...

In playing with it's accuracy and USE.

[bush_is_wacko]

63. Yes it does and there is a passage in there specifically addressing the

fact that there will be more people using the book for evil purposes than to spread the word of God. Their numbers are increasing and that is scary. There has never been a single word they have ever uttered that would sway me they are the ones preaching the right and true messages of God. I really do see that I have become incredulous over these people and Revelations discusses that too.

Like I said, never in history have we been so close to a time that more closely resembles Revelations in the bible.

[Cats Against Frist]

56. Let the mass suicides begin. n/t

[Pushed To The Left]

49. We need to protect the separation

of church and state. I would think that people of faith would be offended that their religious beliefs are being used as a tool to push a right-wing agenda.

Here are some links to some groups that support church-state separation:

www.au.org
www.aclu.org
www.pfaw.org

These groups need our support, now more than ever!

[Warren DeMontague]

52. There's a lot of money in being a self-righteous control freak.

I'm starting to think that telling other people how to live their lives, not baseball, is the American National Pastime.

[Cats Against Frist]

55. Yeeeaaah -- right. The elderly will live in your home.

Let's see:

Gramma.........or Flat-screen TV?
Gramma.........or Chevy Tahoe?
Gramma.........or Tickets to Mammon Jesus Diamond Amusement Park?


I have a serious feeling that these people are full of bull-shit. I happen to know an "Evangelical" that has a giant house, who's mother died alone in a 300 sq. foot room in a retirement community, less than a half hour away from his estate.

Of course, maybe she didn't want to live with his obnoxious ass.

[bunkerbuster1]

62. Did that "evangelical" call herself "Dr. Laura" and host a talk show?

Did that "evangelical" learn that Mom had rotted for weeks, without anyone noticing that she'd died?

I loves me some a' them "Family values!"

more about that at
http://slick.org/deathwatch/mailarchive/msg00954.html

[bush_is_wacko]

66. I heard this too! How disgusting is it that you don't even bother to

check up on your own mother?! Dr. Laura, what and idiot! Although, I have to say, there have been several times I have agreed with her suggestions to her even MORE idiotic callers! I think mostly rednecks call her show from what I can tell and apparently they NEED lessons on how to live a normal existence!

[bush_is_wacko]

64. She probably didn't want to live with him, but he was obligated to

take care of her don't you think?

I have to admit I have been witness to two cases that were just the opposite. One family tried to help their grandmother but she had Alzheimer's so bad she was uncontrollable and ended up tripping on the kitchen floor and breaking her neck. They were, of course, horrified and blamed themselves for it. It wasn't their fault,but they loved her and I don't think they really realized how far gone she was. I remember thinking she was a danger to herself the first time they called me saying she was missing. They found her completely naked trying to climb into a neighborhood pool enclosure once. She was NOT a small woman to say the least and her temper could be violent when she was lost in her own world.

The other family ALSO tried to take care of the mother with Alzheimer's. When they both ended up with cancer, IMO, due to worrying themselves to death over the situation, they HAD to put her in a home. She got kicked out of three homes while they were both undergoing cancer treatments! She eventually passed away in the fourth home. That was like a maximum security prison so that the Alzheimer's patients wouldn't escape and hurt themselves. They were really good to her there, but she had no freedoms. They were able to visit with her there, but by that time she didn't even recognize them most days. Sad, really sad.

[Sparkly]

58. What do you think of the Interfaith Alliance?

http://www.interfaithalliance.org/site/pp.asp?c=8dJIIWMCE&b=120695

They seem to welcome people of all religions and no religion, and are banding together to fight the very thing you're talking about.

[madfloridian]

60. I have had mail from them.

Sounds pretty interesting.

[madfloridian]

61. Mother Jones: "Jesus Christ's Superflock"...Megachurches.

I was really not aware of the church/communities until lately. This one is really large. Not sure if the one my OP fits into this pattern, but interesting article.

http://www.motherjones.com/news/feature/2005/03/megachurches.html

"In South Barrington, Illinois, just northwest of Chicago, lies a 155-acre campus resembling a junior college or perhaps a manufacturer of something clean, like pharmaceuticals or computer parts. On one side of the main compound is a greensward, on another side is a five-acre reflecting pond, and out in front are vast black slabs of endless parking, where swarms of men wearing reflective vests and radio headsets assist drivers attempting to find an open space. Shuttle buses loop around the lots; sometimes it's so busy that off-duty cops are hired to help direct traffic.

It looks like a mall on a busy holiday weekend, but it is the Willow Creek Community Church, and it could be any weekend. In almost every city or suburb of more than 200,000 there is a similar megachurch, as they are known, a product of suburban sprawl, religious marketing, consumer demand, the entertainment economy, and the good old-fashioned yearning for communal experience. Megachurches draw young, committed, and energetic members; listen to parishioners talk and you will hear a refrain of growth—"we're growing"—as if it were proof of redemptive success. And they deliver a highly emotional product: the marriage of group affiliation and a conversion experience, complete with videos, pop music, and other modern dramatic flourishes."

"You might have predicted their rise from shifting demographics alone. Mainline denominations are drying up. In rural communities and cities, congregations of fewer than 100 are shutting their doors at a rate of 60 a week. Megachurches, meanwhile, have increased in number by 30 percent in the last four years. Out in the suburbs, Christianity is experiencing the same consumer shifts that occur when Sam's Club or Costco comes to town. Megachurches can have congregations that are black or white, evangelical or not; half belong to no traditional denomination. Scholars call them "postdenominational churches" or parts of the "new apostolic reformation." Their own laity call them "purpose-driven" or "seeker-sensitive" churches. Detractors call them McChurches or Wal-Mart churches. But whatever they are called, they deserve to be taken seriously, if only because they help explain why George W. Bush is still sitting in the Oval Office and how suburban malaise can be transformed into a multitude of organized, values-driven voters. Not by happenstance did Mel Gibson's The Passion of the Christ play the megachurch circuit before making its theatrical debut. These are the churches that held get-out-the-vote rallies and stressed the importance of politics in the service of religion...."END SNIP

[orpupilofnature57]

79. thank you, and that wonderful snippet,M.Jones good stuff since 77

[madfloridian]

80. A few of the speakers at this megachurch in Illinois.

"THE COMMUNAL APPEAL extends far beyond actual sermons. On one side of Willow Creek's auditorium is a food court with seating for 750 and a mezzanine bookstore that offers 10,000 spiritually oriented titles. On the other side are the hushed executive offices of the church's 500 employees and an industrial kiddie-care complex. During services, crawls on the Jumbotron screens announce, "the parents of child #267 need to come to the Sunday School." With so many working parents worried about the welfare and whereabouts of their offspring, the megachurch, with its tremendous amount of youth programming—from organized sports to Bible study—aims to become the guardian of choice. Celebrity speakers, including Mr. T., Mel Gibson, Stephen Baldwin, and Randy Travis, add glitz, while communal celebrations—more than 750 people were baptized in the reflecting pond one summer—further bind the congregation together."

Designed to be a full-service community, non-threatening fun.

SNIP.."Megachurches don't just physically resemble malls, they mimic the very essence of what a mall offers, consolidating convenience, entertainment, neighborhood, even employment. But in a larger sense, the megachurch resembles the Norman Rockwell town square—the commons. All churches promise forgiveness and salvation, but the key to the megachurch is that it provides all kinds of social services and functions that struggling old-line parishes have been forced to off-load. By taking on roles as various as those of the neighborhood welcome committee, the Rotary, the corner diner, the country club mixer, the support group—and, of course, family and school—megachurches have become the tightly knit villages that many Americans think they grew up in and can now find only on television. It's no coincidence that so many megachurches have the word "community" in their names. In a sense they operate much like medieval city-states, and it is telling that a megachurch in Longmont, Colorado, plans to develop 313 surrounding acres into residences, a community college, and a senior center."

Yes, they are very serious indeed.

[mmonk]

67. And I'm serious about stopping them.

[VTMechEngr]

69. Do note there are 2 Presbyterian Branches

The largest is Presbyterian (USA) which is mainstream and fairly liberal.

The Other is a civil war holdout called Presbyterian of America. About 1/20 the size, and basically southern baptist fundie in make-up.

P(USA) allows homosexuals (celibate) and Women as ministers. P of A does not.

[madfloridian]

70. Ok, I found this post at Kos from March...some of the groups mentioned.

I found it while doing a search for "National Grassroots Alliance". There is another group by that name which appears to be a Democratic or liberal group...Public Eye keeps coming up first. Then I found this post at Kos on a search. Oh, yes, indeed they are serious.

http://www.dailykos.com/story/2005/3/4/11138/48231

Our opposition is large, well organized, consists primarily of volunteers and is very motivated; it is the rightwing Christian faction of the Republican Party. Take a look at this from the web site of the National Association of Evangelicals

EVANGELICAL LEADERS ADOPT LANDMARK DOCUMENT URGING GREATER CIVIC ENGAGEMENT
The Board of Directors of the National Association of Evangelicals unanimously voted at its annual Fall Board Meeting to adopt an historic document on public engagement called For the Health of the Nation: An Evangelical Call to Civic Responsibility. The vote, 42-0, is viewed as a milestone in the movement of evangelicals from the insularity of a revival tent mind-set in the early 20th century to the political activism of the 21st century.

"Evangelical Christians in America face a historic opportunity. We make up fully one quarter of all voters in the most powerful nation in history. Never before has God given American evangelicals such an awesome opportunity to shape public policy in ways that could contribute to the well-being of the entire world. Disengagement is not an option. We must seek God's face for biblical faithfulness and abundant wisdom to rise to this unique challenge."


Another speaker at the Reclaiming America for Christ convention was Rep. Walter Jones (R-N.C.). He has proposed legislation that would allow political activism in the religious community without penalty of losing tax exempt status;


Rep. Walter Jones lobbied the conference to support a measure to lift the federal ban on clergy support or opposition to candidates for public office. Jones said his bill, H.R. 235, the Houses of Worship Free Speech Restoration Act, "allows a minister to say whatever God puts in their heart and in their mouth." Current tax law penalizes clergy with the removal of their tax exemption if they engage in political activity--a potential death blow to donation-dependent churches.
Jones ranked the return of freedom of speech to American clergy above the defense of marriage and the return of legal protection to unborn children. "There is no hope for the moral future of our country," he said, "unless pastors can speak freely."END SNIP

This all makes me very uncomfortable.

[bobbieinok]

81. heard Jones speak here in Tulsa,,,,,he talked about how great a

'christian' Jesse Helms was and how supportive Helms had been of Jones' political career.

Jone spoke with Jim Ryan from KS, also a supporter of the bill.

[rucky]

76. My, what a big steeple you have...

i guess a sports car isn't enough for these guys.

[HeeBGBz]

78. It's an erection to heaven

Built with the viagra of rampant self-rightiousness.

[rman]

77. They are a minority and they know it.

"We have a three-fold primary responsibility: number one get people saved, number two get them baptised, number three get them registered to vote."
- Jerry Falwell

"... I don't want everybody to vote. Elections are not won by a majority of people, they never have been from the beginning of our country and they are not now. As a matter of fact our leverage in the elections quite candidly goes up as the voting populace goes down."
- Paul Weyrich, chairman of Coalitions for America

In essence they are saying they want as many as possible of their "moral majority" to vote, and as few as possible of anyone else to vote, since that's the only way they can win.

from the documentary "Life and Liberty for all who believe"
http://www.theocracywatch.org/materials.htm
http://forums.airamericaradio.com/weblogs/ms/