Universal heathcare's circular phenominon problem

[Pockets]

Arguing with some cons who oppose universal healthcare, the following problem occurred to me and I was wondering if it sounds at least somewhat valid here in the U.S.:

1) We have to stay inside all day because we are scared of the medical costs we'd incur if we exercised outdoors and got hurt.
2) Staying inside all day makes us fat.
3) Being fat makes Americans unappealing to one another, and makes us not care about each other.
4) Since we don't care about each other, we don't want to help each other with medical costs.
5) Back to step 1.

At any rate, there is something about Americans that makes us hate one another.

[Nite Owl]

1. I'm not sure if it could

just be characterized as 'hate one another' but more a survival of the fittest. We are left to fend for ourselves in America, sort of a Social Darwanism. Yes, we don't have outrage about the laws that make it so but it's through a lack of education and outright brainwashing by the repukes use of the media. Facts are not fairly presented so it isn't so much from hate as from ignorance.

[Pockets]

4. So I am right and my circle is valid.

Good.

I mentioned the possibility that we just hate each other at the bottom, as sort of an afterthought, but it wasn't part of my circle.

Funny cons believe in Social Darwinism but not Darwinism itself.

[Cleita]

2. And why does your post have anything to do with

universal health care?

This is a very serious issue and most people don't realize how serious until either they or a loved one falls to a chronic illness that zaps all their assets down the drain, even with health insurance.

Please go to this website and read what they have to say and then post again.

http://www.pnhp.org/

[Pockets]

3. Apologies if I offended you somehow,

but I'm very seriously supportive of universal healthcare. The problem is, people are not voting for it. I'm trying to figure out, on a psychological level, why people do not care about one another here in the U.S., when healthcare is free in every other industrialized nation.

And, I'm very serious about the possibility that people are becoming afraid to go outdoors because they are afraid of getting hurt and incurring those costs. That is in turn causing more obesity in this country, and making our health worse and healthcare higher, causing a downward spiral.

But the problem needs to be portrayed in a way that's easy for cons to understand. Most of them will not read an article on the topic. They certainly have trouble discerning right from wrong. The problem and solution must be simple for them to understand.

[Cleita]

10. Sorry, I didn't mean to be strident, but

universal health care is a key issue with me and has been for over a decade. The reason people can't accept the concept is because the have been brainwashed to believe, that we have the best health care system in the world (true if you are Bill Gates) and government run health care will be inferior, and that you are going to end up paying for a bunch of deadbeats with your tax money.

Well, yesterday I needed a prescription that I couldn't get today because the non-government pharmacy had to order it for me. Then I had the privilege of paying for it with my non-goverment prescription drug plan, which I also pay for. So I got to to pay for my privatized drug benefit and it's inferior to what my Canadian friends get for free from their government and I probably had to wait longer. Go figure.

Also, about the deadbeats. Since those patients could be your children or your grandparents, why aren't we pushing what is really going on instead of letting the pharma and health care industries define the debate?

[MadHound]

5. I have one quibble

Why are you saying that we stay inside because of fear of medical cost if an injury is incurred outside? I've never heard of that reason for not going outside, really. Is this some phenomenon that hasn't come out here to the midwest yet, or are you just hypothesizing? As far as I know, the leading location for home based accidents is inside the home:shrug:

I really think that the reasons more and more people stay indoors are twofold. Scared of their neighbors and neighborhood, but this is really dependent on where you live, it doesn't apply everywhere. The second reason is that there are many many home entertainment diversions that are quite addictive. There's the old standby, TV. But it has gotten new tech add-ons, the cable or satellite dish, TiVo etc. Plus DVD players. Then there is gaming, both on the computer and the TV. Next is the internet, as many here can attest to. I think that these are the real reasons why more people aren't outside. Electronic addictions.

[Pockets]

6. I'm glad you're focusing

on the secondary topic (staying indoors) while the primary topic is healthcare.

I guess the reason I'm thinking out this is that Spring is here in Chicago, and I'm reminded of the fact that I, at least, have given up rollerblading for fear of getting hurt and the resultant medical costs.

If you look at the chemistry involved in the stay-indoors trend, there are multiple variables to consider, but the idea of getting hurt from physical activity is in there, and may be significant, IMO. We let our kids play videogames indoors, for instance, while subconsciously fearing for their safety outdoors, a fear that may subconsciously be fueled by financial concerns.

People tend to think on a practical and frugal level. Decisions are based on numerous factors. One factor like healthcare costs may be just enough to sway a decision.

[MadHound]

7. Well, sorry I was picking nits

I completely agree with the concept of UHC, and quite frankly would like to see our military budget cut in half to fund it. But hey, around here I thought that went without saying.

But like I said earlier, I just don't see the phenomenon that you're talking about. Yes, kids are staying inside in droves, but at least around here it isn't from fear of getting hurt, it is more from electronic addiction more than anything. Of course, I live in the Midwest, and it generally takes five years before the latest trends get here.

[Pockets]

8. Fair enough

but I hope this isn't a trend. It just is a financial reality, like people taking fewer vactions because they can't afford them. If people can't afford healthcare they'll take part in less dangerous activities, which probably means less activities altogether. They'll be less likely to rollerblade, rock climb, surf, skydive, etc.

I guess only a statistical survey would answer the question for certain.

BTW, Chicago is in the midwest, but people here are by nature often stay at home types due to the weather, and due to the fact there is nothing to do outdoors here.

[malachi]

9. From Klugman - NYTimes - Good Read -as always

In 2002, the latest year for which comparable data are available, the United States spent $5,267 on health care for each man, woman and child in the population. Of this, $2,364, or 45 percent, was government spending, mainly on Medicare and Medicaid. Canada spent $2,931 per person, of which $2,048 came from the government. France spent $2,736 per person, of which $2,080 was government spending.

Amazing, isn't it? U.S. health care is so expensive that our government spends more on health care than the governments of other advanced countries, even though the private sector pays a far higher share of the bills than anywhere else.

http://www.smirkingchimp.com/article.php?sid=20716&mode=nested&order=0