Does Christianity promote victimhood?

[mwb970]

I hope this isn't too incendiary to ask or anything, but as I listen to the right-wing Christians whining constantly about everybody being out to get them, being persecuted relentlessly, etc. (which seems strange to me given that they seem to dominate every aspect of American life right now), I find myself wondering whether there is something about Christianity itself that glorifies victimhood.

After all, their main character was kind of the Ultimate Victim, and the emphasis on torture, suffering, and martrydom on display in the Gibson bloodfest seems uncomfortably related to the defensive, angry lashings-out we hear inreasingly often from the devout. (Apparently, they are enraged and simply cannot take it any more.)

Or am I barking up the wrong tree?

[Liberal Veteran]

1. No, you are correct.

Right-wing Christians equate not being able to shove religion down everyone's throats in public schools with being fed to the lions for the entertainment of the masses.

[FiveGoodMen]

2. Yup. Being deprived of the right to push others around.

[tavalon]

3. The right wing trump card is victim mode

I don't think that's a christian trait but rather a rightwing trait, as I've known many liberal christians and I don't remember the victim refrain from them.

[Warpy]

4. If it isn't all Jesus and hellfire all the time, it's

actively against them.

I have never seen such a bunch of whiny little crybabies in my life, not even in day care centers where one would expect them.

Since their religion demands martyrs and persecution, let them get the hell out of my country and experience the real thing. I suggest Saudi Arabia as fertile ground for conversion. Shoot, their brand of fundy Christianity might even be an improvement there, at least get the women out of black shrouds and give them the keys to the family car.

If the Christian Soldiers survived, that is.

[derby378]

5. And I've actually heard them say

that people try to label them as the persecutors when they're actually the persecuted and how it's so unfair how those awful Jew liberals in the secular media are stirring up hate for Christians in America and we can't even pray in school anymore and WAAAAAAAHH!!!

They've got some balls to carry on like that. We're not stupid. We know the score. And we know that they know the score, too. And it's gonna be a hard fight.

[whistle]

6. Certainly martyrdom....

[libertypirate]

7. Yes, how can you be the perp...

when you are the perpetual victim?

[Red State Rebel]

8. No, but the lack of understanding of it promotes anger

[gratuitous]

9. There are certainly people who cloak themselves in Christianity

Who run like scared rabbits for the safety and security of the mantel of victimhood. However, it's a little difficult to imagine how anyone making the kind of money that Limbaugh, Hannity, Dobson, Falwell, Savage, Larson and the rest can see themselves as "victims." But it plays well with their gullible audience. Someone's got their boot on the throat of downtrodden America: Wages are stagnant or shrinking; health care is hideously expensive; good jobs are fleeing the continent for overseas facilities; manufacturing is becoming something other countries do; and social security isn't all that secure anymore.

Unfortunately from the perspective of the person whose throat is being stepped on, it's difficult to make out that there's a "W" on those boots.

So, in a cynical and manipulative ploy to avoid the unpleasant consequences of their arrogance, the repressive right dresses up its policies in the language of "faith" and "Christianity." Oddly enough, you won't hear many of them talk about the implications of Jesus' story of the rich man and Lazarus, or how difficult it will be for the rich to enter the kingdom.

The philosophy of these enslavers has as much to do with Christianity as martial music has to real music. True Christianity is supposed to identify with the victims and the losers of the social order, and a big reason for Jesus' crucifixion was that he challenged the smug, arrogant, entrenched powers of his day and sided with the have-nots, speaking with an authority that they could only wish they had.

When you hear the likes of George W. Bush push for greater defense spending while he has starving and homeless citizens, it's apparent that the central message of the gospel has eluded him. The fact that he and his partisans can wave a Bible around doesn't make them Christians any more than walking into a barn makes you a cow.

[noonwitch]

10. True Christianity is empowering

The point is that Jesus was tortured and killed, but that he willingly undertook this suffering to rise above it a few days later. He also forgave those who were responsible, and forgiveness of those who wrong you is one of the most important of his teachings. He was not a victim because he did not view himself as one. He overcame death, to teach us that we are more than a physical body.

His teaching is that one is powerful in weakness. "My grace is sufficient for thee; for my strength is made perfect in weakness". (2 Corinthians 12:9)

The sermon on the mountain has many references to meekness, non-violence and not making a spectacle of one's spirituality. (Matthew 5-7)

Some people will always see themselves as victims. Some on the right may use religion as the reason (all those liberals are out to keep us from our religious freedom), but it is more an issue of weak personalities and group identification than with any one particular religious faith.

[johnaries]

35. Didn't the fundies edit out the Sermon on the Mount?

or do they just skip over that page?

[tanyev]

11. Just about any philosophy can be twisted by a

power-hungry manipulator to justify a desired action. All it requires is a number of willing, gullible participants.

[TahitiNut]

12. The Victim-Villain-Rescuer melodrama is a dysfunctional human malady.

In this melodrama, absolutely every Villain claims to be either a Victim or a Rescuer. It's the rules. The codependency of roles makes it so.

After all, how can one be a good Rescuer unless there are Victims? Rescuers need Victims! (If they can't find 'em, they'll create 'em!)

How can one be a good Victim without an 'evil-doer' Villain? Victims need Villains! (If they can't find 'em, they'll create 'em!) Victims secretly detest Rescuers - because Rescuers threaten to deprive them of their role as Victims. So, be careful when you think yourself a Rescuer - the victim-dog invariably bites the hand of a rescuer-feeder.

Victims secretly adore Villains - abuse-addicted women don't view sensitive men as "manly." Abuse-addicted men don't view strong women as "sexy." Log Cabin Republicans. 'Nuf said?

The right-wingers keep demanding that others "die for their sins." The right-wingers keep demanding "an eye for an eye." Troops are the "Saviors" of today! Their "eye for an eye" strategy is working as the entire country is going blind!

Claiming the mantle of Victim, they're embarked on a perpetual Crusade, finding Villains under every rock and hard place. The Victim of poor grades in school, finds Villains in teachers ("fire em!") and students who got better grades ("the liberal elite") and "made them look bad." Any assault on the myths and false beliefs Victim must be a Villain - call 'em the "Liberal media" (because facts are difficult things).

Virtually every "hot-button issue" betrays this rampant dysfunction. Look at the Rescuers of Terri Shiavo. It's fucking GREAT to have a Victim who can't speak for herself! (It's even better if they can never be "saved" since it's an endless excuse to be a Rescuer.) That's what a fetus is to "Operation Rescue" (the name is no accident). It's a Victim that can't speak for itself! Once they have a handy-dandy Victim, the self-righteous power of killing anything that moves (Villains, of course) is addictive indeed. Look at Capital Punishment - it's Villainy under the guise of Rescuer, with applauding throngs of Victims (who can't speak for themselves). Look at tobacco! (This one's bizarre.) Those who are the most apparent Victims (smokers) are called Villains by Rescuers who've stolen the role of Victims!! Calling them Villains, Rescuers take an overdose of self-righteousness and add the burden of enormous taxation and social excommunication to an already-shortened life-span and likelihood of painful death. (Unfreakingbelievable!)

Want to see the melodrama on steroids, even on DU? Watch the gender wars! Fucking insane! :puke:

[Batgirl]

17. never heard of this theory before

but the more I think about it the more I'm convinced it's true, we live in drama queen nation...there's something so appealing about being done wrong by another low down mean mistreater, maybe in part because it gives us permission to be self righteous.

[TahitiNut]

18. It's a relatively common paradigm in codependency counselling.

:shrug: As a paradigm, it offers a tool for recognizing interlocking dysfunctional behavior - social pathologies.

How many Nell's choose Snidely's instead of Tom's? Snidely is abusive, but has money and parties hardy. Tom is poor, but is nurturing and hard-working. How many Nell's are locked up in viewing Tom as "unmanly"? How many Nell's still expect Tom to rescue them every time Snidely ties 'em to the rails? These melodramas play themselves out all the time. Watch Jerry Springer or any "reality show." The whole is the sum of its parts. The body politic is a composite of many melodramas.

How many Democrats denied themselves their healthiest candidate because all the Nell's supposedly wouldn't vote for him? The whole myth of "unelectible" is a sick codependncy, imho. One of the more common "victimhood" behaviors is preemptive self-abuse (self-denial) under the illusion of "taking control." After all, if we deny it to ourselves then those overcontrollers won't get a chance to deny it to us. The right wing has absolutely no such hesitation - they go for the unthinkable every day.

[Batgirl]

19. as a former Nell

I can also attest to how intoxicating it is to cast oneself in the role of virtuous maiden victim. It's good to be able to blame your inner pain on a Snidely. I would so not want to ever re-live my twenties.

[TahitiNut]

22. Sadly, experience is most often the best teacher.

It's not a gender-linked thing, either. (Few things are, imho.) I've worked with folks overcoming such experiences and have often been stunned by their courage. 'Tain't easy.

[The Magistrate]

23. An Excellent Presentation, Mr. Nut!

Thank you very much, Sir! You have put something very important in a nutshell....

[TahitiNut]

32. My pleasure, sir.

Games people play is more than an old song. :silly:

[RevCheesehead]

13. "Victimhood" is part of any human dysfunctional system.

It is not the sole possession of religion or the religious right.

I recommend Anne Wilson Schaef's book, "The Addictive Organization." It is my belief that America (the US) is becoming the premiere addictive organization of the world, and is playing it out on multiple levels, from all sides of the political, religious, racial, sexual/gender, and whatever roles you can imagine.

We need to get a grip and stop participating in this stuff, because it is killing us.

[TahitiNut]

14. We seem to be on the same page.

:thumbsup:

[RevCheesehead]

15. Thank you.

I had a good counselor who taught me well. :thumbsup:

[Arkana]

16. All the loons like to think of themselves as Jesus on the cross

and the Romans and the Jews are those EEEEEEEVIL LIBRULS. :grr:

I'm an atheist, but I'm going to take a stab in the dark and say that's not what real Christianity's about. Am I right?

[Bridget Burke]

20. The "Christianity Under Attack" thing is a new movement.

Here's the first of 700 Google listings:

Christianity is under attack on the political, educational and media front. Despite what you may hear from the media, the ACLU and other constitutional blitzkrieg agencies, the founding fathers made it extremely clear as to the intent of the founding documents. The founding fathers guaranteed us “freedom OF religion” and not “freedom from religion.” Some ill informed say the Constitution has built a “separation of church and State” wall to guide us in these hard-to-define times. It’s only hard to define to those that don’t agree. It’s actually pretty straight forward to those that care to read it. I challenge anyone to find that statement or any similar statement in the Constitution. It doesn’t exist.

www.newswithviews.com/guest_opinion/guest38.htm

You're welcome to check out the others if you've got a strong stomach. The Dominionists are using this "issue" to help gain political power--& to fool sincere Christians. The campaign against judges is the latest example of this lie.

If you look at Christianty as a whole, you find a lot of pain & suffering. But you can also find the Church Triumphant--perhaps too rich in material things, but feeling no need to cower & whine.

[Megami Kitsune]

34. Is it really new?

As I recall 'people of faith' (the phrase to draw in all religious types with a persecution complex) have been 'under assault' ever since the Supreme Court actually began enforcing the seperation of church and state since some rulings in the 1970's.

As with many things the right has learned to turn the beliefs/tactics of the left to their own advantage, victimhood sells. Actually being a victim of something is just an irrelevant detail, what matters is annoucing your victimhood with as increasingly strident tone.

[bullwinkle428]

21. More mixed messages...

It's funny how a lot of the fundies are the first to scream "Personal Responsibility" when it comes to socio-economic issues...

[FiveGoodMen]

26. I'm pretty sure they scream personal responsibility

any time that THEY are not the person in question.

I think the thought process really goes, "God made the world for ME and gave ME charge over everything and he expects ME to tell everybody what to do and now this other group has it's own ideas and isn't letting ME run the show which is persecution according to ME."

[ArkDem]

24. Intelligent, thoughtful and well written post.

[NNN0LHI]

25. My Catholic mother thinks it is here duty to suffer...

...as Christ did on the cross. She thinks she is doing her part when she denies herself pain medication when she needs it. I shit you not.

Don

[cheezus]

28. if she's cathlolic her duty is not suffering, but good works

take those pain meds and then get out there feeding the hungry, clothing the cold, and curing the sick.
There's much more to be gained by eliviating the suffering of others, rather than just suffering yourself.

[NNN0LHI]

29. I will let you explain it to her

For me I may as well be talking to a brick wall.

Don

[cheezus]

31. I'm FAR from being the right person

however, you might want to contact your parish priest.

No, I'm serious. Despite the problems I have with the church, priests and nuns have been some of the coolest, most down to earth caring people I've ever met.

[LittleClarkie]

27. No, it's not promoted within the religion, but some folks take it that way

I think it's called a martyr complex. And it is apparent that politics has figured out how to use that complex for it's own gain.

[0rganism]

30. I think it's more that likely that "victims" are attracted to Christianity

There are probably unscrupulous clergymen who take advantage of this fact and, as you put it, "promote victimhood", but I'd be reluctant to generalize this to all -- or even most -- Christian sects. Sure, Christ was a Victim (and a willing one), but according to the myth he was also a person of Great Power, a teacher, a leader of people, a heretic, a wanderer, and the True Son of God.

As to whiney right-wing Christians... rightwingers will be rightwingers, whether or not they're Christians, and an essential part of that attitude is a sense of persecution by the "different". If the winger's rich, it's the welfare queens out to steal his fortune. If he's white, it's the blacks. If he's Christian, it's the Moslems and atheists and sometimes the Jews.

[More Than A Feeling]

33. ideally, the point of Christianity is to CARE about victims

and not to be afraid to stand up for them, even if you become a victim in the process.

The point is not to make yourself into a (pretend) victim, then run around screaming for justice, when real victims are suffering.

[Megami Kitsune]

36. sadly

"The point is not to make yourself into a (pretend) victim, then run around screaming for justice, when real victims are suffering."

Sadly this is what I see routinely from many Muslim here in Europe. Any criticism of Islam no matter how scholarly is branded as 'racist, intolerant, hateful, etc.'. Any police action is motivated by 'prejudice, etc.'.

I mean when Theo van Gogh was murdered I was just stunned the wjole day. But more shocking was Muslims claiming on the Dutch news that they were the real victims because van Gogh had defamed their religion.

Neither the US or European media seems willing yet to call manufactured victimhood for what it is.

[tinonedown]

37. You can't be too incendiary!

Not for this forum in regards to Christianity.
It's the rule, not the exception to bash anything related to religion as long as that religion is Christianity.
But the occasional thread exposing election fraud is worth the wait!

[TWiley]

38. American Christianity is a form of Mental Illness.

Please explain this Christian message in a logical way to me:

God, the all powerful and all knowing, needed to torture and kill his only son in order to encourage himself to forgive the rest of us for being the humans that he created.

Hmmmmmmmmmmmm?

Evidently, the Christian God relishes any opportunity to torture and kill the innocent.

I would hope that someone would be committed for believing that a blood sacrifice is necessary to appease a "loving God".

I do not understand how belief system that is built upon this premise would result in clear thinking sanity.