Looking for Help-Advice in a Case of Blatant Sexual Discrimination

[chlamor]

Yesterday a friend asked for some thoughts/advice on this situation and I told her I would post this on DU and pass along to her any advice- words of wisdom that might arise from the discussion group. She has also contacted NOW and as of yet hasn't received a response from them. She is uncertain as to what action to take if any. Any ideas out there?


Here are her words:
I am in my final year of my masters degree in Landscape Architecture at Cornell.
I'm looking for a job, and periodically employers will e-mail our department with
job postings. I was shocked to open one of these a few weeks ago and find that it
is a posting specifically for a man. This is even more outrageous because
graduating with me are eight other women and one man. It is infuriating to think
that I have been working so hard for three years to get this degree, just to face
this kind of job pool. I have experience working on a crew in an arboretum, and my
older sister spent three summers on a Davey Tree company crew installing landscapes.
His claim that women are not strong enough to do this work is ridiculous. I tried
to report this to the better business bureau, but they don't handle discrimination
claims. Since I don't want this job, working in a small company owned by a self
proclaimed sexist, I can't file a lawsuit. Still, I think that somebody needs to be told about
this. I hope that people will respond, or e-mail [e-mail]
to let them know that their behavior is unacceptable. I am including the
original e-mail sent by Alden's Country Gardens, along with my reply to them and
their response. Thanks for looking at this.

The Ad:
>>We are a landscape design/build firm working in Sullivan and Ulster
>County. We are looking for a man who is interested in working in and
>learning about this business.
>>The type of work we do varies from envisioning and designing gardens and
>landscapes to installing the hardscaping (bluestone patios, walks,
>retaining walls, pergolas, decks, pools etc.) to planting and maintaining
>gardens, installing drip irrigation and landscape lighting.
>>We need someone in good physical shape, willing to work from 8am to 6 pm, >Monday
through Friday. Our season starts in April and goes through
>November, but if you are available only for the summer break, please
>contact us anyway, since our crew is usually bigger in the middle of the
>season.
>>You will be paid on the books every week starting at $10/hour. We provide >health
insurance and pay 50% of the premiums. (Your cost is about $22/wk
>for full coverage.) Most of our crew receive a bonus at the end of the
>season, depending on the profitability of the company and the excellence
>of their work.
>>If you are interested, please give us a call at 845-985-0351
>Or email us at [e-mail].
>>Thank you for your interest.
>> >Alden Thayer

Her Response:
I saw your job posting. just so you know, it has been illegal to
> advertise for a specific gender to fill a job for a few decades now.>

Thank you for your advice, but in as much as this job entails a lot of heavylifting,
I do not intend to hire a woman. Would you rather I waste the time and the hopes of
otherwisecompetant women in having them apply only to be inexplicably rejected?
Whatever the law may be, Ithink I am sparing a lot of good people a lot of
unnecessary hassle in being up front about our needs.
Alden Thayer-----

[Technowitch]

1. Two suggestions

(1) Contact a lawyer.

(2) Report this to her local district attorney's office.

[Warpy]

2. This is to your friend: Photograph the original

and send a copy to the EEOC and the state licensing board. Most states license every profession they can, and I doubt yours is any different. If your state has an antidiscrimination board, send it there, too.

Don't hold your breath waiting for the EEOC to act, they've probably been inundated with Fuckwit appointees who think patriarchy is just ducky and you should find a nice man to mary and spend your life in the kitchen.

[Jack_DeLeon]

3. Can your friend do the heavy lifting?

[chlamor]

7. Yes

She is about 5'8" tall and solid. Grew up on a dairy farm. You'd want her on your side.

[Jack_DeLeon]

8. no problems...

my girlfriend is fairly strong and can do some heavy lifting, however I definately have problems with women who accept jobs which duties include moving around stuff and then end up having the men do the extra work of doing that moving.

[REACTIVATED IN CT]

4. The chair of the department at Cornell should be notified

They should be made aware of this discriminatory practice. I'm certain that they will not approve of it.

And someone should explain to Mr Thayer that listing the ability to lift 50 lbs (or whatever he expects the employee to be able to lift) is the non-discriminatory way to weed out the applicants who don't have the strength to do the job. I'm sure that there are many men who could not meet his requirement either

[chlamor]

9. Thanks

I will be taking notes on points of advice. Contacting the chair at Cornell seems wise. Perhaps then they could inform the employer that they can no longer list at Cornell and other institutions could follow.

[REACTIVATED IN CT]

13. Exactly!

Cornell certainly does not want to foster discrimination

[Nobody]

14. About those 50 pounds or so

When I was 18 years old, I was severely underweight (NOT due to an eating disorder) and I weighed 100 pounds. I could carry 80 pounds of bulky boxes across a room. That's 80 percent of my body weight. I'd like to see how many other people can lift 80% of their body weight. I did not grow up on a farm and I had no special training. I was pretty wimpy as a kid.

Now I'm at a more healthy weight and I still can lift 40 pounds over my head and carry huge bulky 21 inch monitors across a room.

Unless that 50 pounds is a bona-fide occupational requirement, that ad was highly illegal. Can any man use his penis and testicles to life heavy weights? No. You use arms, back, and legs. Everyone has those. 50 pounds isn't that much. Most mothers have had to lift upwards of 30 pounds of squirming toddler multiple times a day.

I'd certainly forward the email in his own words stating that he has no intention of hiring a female to the EEOC.

This Thayer character isn't that bright. Convicted out of his own mouth.

[chlamor]

17. Superb

and could feel the spirit through cyberland. Forwarding the e-mail seems to be a very good idea. When we talked about it I thought an e-mail campaign directed at this guy and company might be effective. She liked the idea and that is why the e-mail address is posted on the original query up above. Maybe you could send him your high-spirited retort if only to let him know that certain genitalia are not certain qualifiers of strength and stamina.

[REACTIVATED IN CT]

19. Well, yes , the 50 lbs I used as an example

would have to be a bona fide occupational requirement in order for it not to be discriminatory. It would be whatever the weight is of the objects that the sucessful candidate would be expected to haul around while on the job - sacks of mulch, trees, etc. come to mind. The weight of the applicant has nothing to do with it. A hypothetical applicant's bad back would also be an issue for this position, wouldn't it?

[amazona]

5. you've got me

It is my understanding that in blue collar jobs that there are less women hired today than in 1978. We're going backwards, and I know of no way to stop it. My partner is in heavy industry and really very few women get hired in that area. I remember seeing a UPS delivery woman (they have to be able to lift 50 pounds) in the mid 80s but not for years and years and years.

I hope something can be done. Unfair is unfair.

The conservation movement is a breeding ground of communists
and other subversives. We intend to clean them out,
even if it means rounding up every birdwatcher in the country.
--John Mitchell, US Attorney General 1969-72

[B Calm]

6. 10 bucks an hr, what a tight ass!!

[JerseygirlCT]

11. Yeah, I noticed that too

working 8-6 as well.

Whatever happened to 9-5? Does anyone remember that? I think it will be one of those stories of the good old days I tell my grandkids someday.

[Nikia]

10. The ad should state a lifting requirement

If it is relatively low, like 50 pounds, there are plenty of women that can handle that. If it is a higher weight, like 75-100 pounds, there are many men who can't handle that either. If the job requirement is lifting requirement, not gender, it should be stated. The requirement of gender is discrimitory.

[Eloriel]

12. Equal Employment Opportunity Commission

altho frankly I don't know what good that will do. :-( ONCE upon a time it would have made a difference. Maybe it still does. This should definitely be reported to them.

Some of the other ideas posted here are good as well.

I don't know why they can't be sued by all the women in the class, and by any women in the previous class, and the coming class. But then I'm not a lawyer.

[DemBeans]

15. another suggestion

Most major cities have a Human Right Commission, and many have enforcement powers and take complaints. This might be a shorter route than a lengthy EEOC filing.

[JDPriestly]

16. See a lawyer

before you go to the EEOC (must be done within a specific time limit) or to the department or office in your state that deals with discrimination complaints. Know what to expect at the EEOC or state department before you go there.

I believe Cornell has a law school. You might get a referral to a good employment lawyer from someone in that school. Good luck.

[chlamor]

18. Cornell has one of

the most highly regarded ILR schools so maybe there are some possibilties there. Thinking about an e-mail campaign.