I might be a conservative .. and you might be, too

[Stinky The Clown]

According to Wikipedia, one definition of the word conservative is:

con·ser·va·tive (kn-sûrv-tv) adj.
Of or relating to treatment by gradual, limited, or well-established procedures; not radical.

But the practical meaning of that word may have recently changed its nuance, its implications, perhaps. In fact, "it all changed after 9/11". Or so they tell us.

I recently concluded that I may be a conservative. Not a neo conservative. But a true conservative. This startling fact dawned on me just last night. You see, I long for the old days. I don't want the radical changes we've been forced to absorb. That, for me, is what changed after 9/11. Before 9/11, I wanted this country to continue to change, measuredly, in the directions started long ago, but never concluded to my satisfaction, by people from FDR to Bill Clinton. Alas, this was not to be. A new group, daring to call themselves conservative, was somehow placed into power. A group that wanted to effect so much change so quickly that, for me - and probably for you, too - made my head spin. Now, little more than four years later, I hardly recognize my country.

Am I a conservative? Am I a liberal conservative? Is there such a thing?

Before you scream at me or vilify me, please hear me out. In the end, I suspect you'll agree with me.

You see, I long for the old days.

The days when our country was respected. The days when our citizens were almost universally welcomed when we visited our friends and neighbors abroad. The days when the words of our political leaders were welcomed - and celebrated.

I long for the old days.

The days when our economy was the engine of prosperity. The days when even the least of us was able to see a light at the end, to see a living wage as a real possibility for him.

I long for the old days.

The days when I saw a future for my children that might be better than mine. The days when I was secure in the knowledge that I would have a safe and secure - and happy - twilight ahead of me. The days when I felt confident that my wife, were she to survive me, would be able to afford both food and pet food. The days when all I worked for - that we worked for, my wife and I - would accrue to our children and not be lost as we struggle to survive the fiscal onslaught of a massive redistribution of wealth to the wealthiest among us.

I long for the old days.

The days when there was still hope for civil discourse in the halls of political debate. The days when even the opposition party would deserve a measure of respect for, even as I disagreed with them, I could respect their mostly just intent and their mostly honest actions.

I long for the old days.

The days when the children of the least of us would be cared for. When even the children of the least of the least among us would have a hot meal at school. When the children of even the least of the least among us could have hope to rise above his circumstance and prosper.

I long for the old days.

The days when those who were not like me could be celebrated and valued. The days when those who loved differently than me were valued. When those who worshiped differently than me were valued. The days when those who believed differently than me were valued. The days when even I was valued.

I long for the old days.

The days when we were almost there, ready to turn the corner. Ready for a health care system that left none of us behind. We had come so far. So close. Almost. And now? Farther, perhaps, than we've ever been.

I long for the old days.

The days when Earth day had an actual meaning. The days when clear skies were just that. The days when water was drinkable. The days when we caused those who sullied our land to make amends.

I long for the old days.

The days when practitioners of the arts were seen as an asset to our society. The days when intellectualism was a valued trait and intellectuals were sought out for their opinions and views. The days when dissent was honored. The days when debate was honest. The days when eloquence was seen as being preferable to the vulgar. When culture was areligious.

I long for the old days.

The days when the painful personal decisions we all face could be made with dignity and love. And privacy. The days when the painful personal decisions we all must make, even when made in error, or made differently than I might have, would be honored. The days when matters affecting only my family remained the province of only my family.

I long for the old days.

The days when women were my equal partners. The days when a woman could walk beside a man, and not a half step behind. The days when the women in the lives of our leaders were role models in their own rights, respected and admired, emulated and lauded. The days when women of accomplishment were judged on the merits of those accomplishments alone.

I long for the old days.

The days of checks and balances. The days of an ebb and flow of power that was honest and orderly. The days when power was held honestly and relinquished gracefully. The days when blood was not the hoped for spoil of politics. The days when nuance inevitably won out over absolutism. The days when individual thought mattered. The days when choices made considered the impact of that choice on others. The days when our airwaves we filled with ideas and civil discourse, not hate and rhetorical bile. The days of an independent, honest, and altruistic fourth estate.

I long for the old days.

I long for the country in which I used to live. The country for which my ancestors left their home with the anticipation of self betterment. The country that was the greatest democracy on Earth. The country to which I pledged my allegiance and for which I wore a uniform. The country I loved. The country that was the United States of America. The country I no longer recognize.

I long for the old days. Am I a conservative? Is it all now so different that this term now applies to me? And not to those to whom it once did? Has it, as they now say, all changed?

[adwon]

1. More than a few people

have suggested that the Democratic party is the true conservative party in the US today. If conservatism is judged by the old standard of defending the past, well...I'd say Democrats have a much stronger claim than virtually any Republican.

[Jim Sagle]

2. GREAT post....I nominated it.

:yourock:

[Colorado Blue]

3. I nominated it too. Thanks.

[napi21]

4. I'm not sure what a Conservative is anymore.

I personally believe in low debt, less gov't intrusion into personal lives, smaller gov't, and no more taxes than are necessary to sustain our countries poor and less fortunate.

I also believe gov't has a responsibility to oversee corporate abuse of power, unreasonable and irrational profits at the public's expense, rational control of our currency, and protection against foreign invasion, including financial invasion, illegal immigrant invasion, and of course invaders intent to harm our people and our country.

Does that make me a conservative? I don't think so. At least not under the current examples that I see.

[enid602]

5. conservative

At a time when so many of us are reaching retirement age, even the most liberal people become conservative in the tradition sense; i.e., fiscal conservatism. Having experienced 4+ years of Bush, I daresay even the most liberal long for the old conservative ideal of a less intrusive government. Even smaller government; with the defense budget rising from $150B to $500B in the Bush years, I guess you can say that all of the defense suppliers have been added to the government payroll. With deficits reaching astronomical heights, it seems that everyone is at the trough these days. Even the Bush billionaires.

I just hope that if and when sane people take control of the government, they will be just liberal enough to devote some of our considerable resources to those in need. I have a feeling there will be a lot more needy among us when this is over. I feel that many among us no longer believe in the social contract.

[IronLionZion]

6. some people who are definitely NOT conservative

are Bush and his NEOconservative cohorts.


Seriously, what is a conservative or a liberal and why do you have to be one or the other? I've been called both on the same day...they're ridiculous, meaningless terms.

The terms Democrat and Republican at least have some meaning, if just a little bit. I agree with our Chairman Dean on this issue.

[NMDemDist2]

7. ahhh H2S

me too...

[More Than A Feeling]

8. I agree as well, with one caveat.

I long for the days when the Constitution was the law of the land, with the judiciary its interpreter, held high in esteem. When judges were not thought to be taking sides in a so-called "culture war", but calling us to live up to the words we ratified into law at the dawn of our nation.

I long for the days when the process was as important as the outcome. When laws, precedents, and traditions in our government weren't thrown overboard the second it was convenient to the short-term agenda of one political party. When our government was not allergic to public scrutiny of its every action.

I long for the days when Christianity wasn't a political football, when a few did not force it on others and give the many a bad name.

On the other hand, like the Republican dream of returning the country to their version of the 1950's, I suspect the time you describe never actually existed in its totality. After all, even as women and blacks were finally getting some semblance of equal treatment, Vietnam was cranking up, Watergate, the energy crisis, Reagan were all on the horizon. Possibly the 1990's, but even then, the respect between the parties was all but gone, and the lies and deceit and hatred were beginning to fly fast and furious.

Still, you have painted a marvelous portrait of a reality many people think they remember, and are nostalgic for. This could be a wonderful part of the Democratic Party's message. Send it to Howard Dean.

[Stinky The Clown]

16. Images and imagery are everything, sometimes, aren't they?

[LaPera]

9. Not a fucking chance...

Conservative: Set in ones ways, "non-tolerant, conformist, unadventurous"...

To decide others fate?

[Selteri]

10. Great way to describe that ironically we are all

liberal progressive-moderates.

What an odd concept. But I can agree, there are some things where the old saying, 'if it ain't broke, don't fix it' and there are things we know are broke that need to be fixed and there are things where we can't make up our mind...

So we need a new slogan

"Democrats, conserving what's good, fixing what's broken and open for civil discourse on everything else."

[BeFree]

29. I like that

"Democrats, conserving what's good, fixing what's broken and open for civil discourse on everything else."

Isn't 'conservative' really an adjective?

But those mean and nasty, revolutionary repiglickers have absolutely corrupted the noun use of the word, and turned us into not being able to progress,and have us stuck in a holding pattern; just hoping to conserve the few freedoms we have.

Alas, it is just what they said they would do... drown all the good progressive things of our society in a bathtub. Blub, blub, blub.

Those damn radical right-wing republicans have got to be impeached or they will drown us back to the middle ages.

[Sparkly]

11. Yup -- if only we could have conserved all THAT!!

Our work now is to reclaim it.

Love ya, Husb. :loveya:

[mogster]

12. My sentiments exactly! Good post!

:hi:

[Lexingtonian]

13. as I've started telling people-

You have to be an honest liberal to be a true conservative. Conservative here meaning a person who knows what really is important, the few important things among the many, and attached to defending these.

Look at the Pubbies. They have no friggin' idea of what really is important. They think money is more important than the use to which it is put. Their God appears to worry more about a few million abortions than actual fairness or justice on Earth of many billions of people, and rarely if ever do His followers actually do anything to genuinely improve the condition of the world. They have a Constitution with the 14th Amendment cut out of it entirely and a bunch of other parts rubbed out so they're very hard to read. They imagine being 'conservative' is to live in the past full bore, without selection, and use gizmos that are contemporary. In what they do and desire, creativity dies and boredom and despair define things. They have no shame that their politics is defined only by their resentments and vanities. Needing to choose between barbarism and civilization, they don't know why civilization matters and do know that barbarism is easier.

It's sorta sad, really, that being a political liberal makes you stand up for the letter of the Constitution and being a political 'conservative' means you don't actually feel any loyalty to it and agree with violating its letter and its spirit. We live in strange times.

[applegrove]

14. The real conservative represent the elites. They do not want international

trade and they like patriotism and War. That is how Disraeli defined conservatism. He had to redefine it in the 19th Century people the people were just not voting for the "party that hates any new & good information and only represents elites".

Liberals were for new & good information, international trade and only war in times of need. They felt that trade made everyone a little better off just as markets did. They wanted a tax system that kept the elites from dominating (using their monopolies).

I am a Liberal and for trade. Because I know that all of the big growth in the world will belong to the emerging middle classes in places like India, China, Brazil & Russia. And that the huge growth we experienced in the West is over.

So I am realistic. And if you look at how Liberals vote in England and Canada and in the USA.. they overwhelming vote for trade and fiscal conservatism (meaning not huge debts and only the social programs that really do a kick ass job like good public schools & Medicare).

I also like good idea and good information.

For that last reason alone I have to put myself in with the Liberals. Neocons & the Bush WH are into bad information, getting people to vote against their own self-interest by any means possible, creating tribalism & fear to get what they want. In a word.. the neocons are into bad information and keeping the good information only for the elites they truly represent.

Bad information is why Bush want 1/3 of SS to be given back to people so they can invest it badly...and the elites win in that stock-market race. Where corporations can make money by purposely fooling people into buying something - well a fool and their money are easily separated.

I live in the information age. I am for good, scientific, enlightened information. And for that information to be distributed amongst the people. And to be delivered as a public good when it is really important (like birth control). And not be the domain of a very few privileged elites. Liberal.

I too am exhausted by all that Bush has done. But that is not because they have so many ideas (they do have ideas...change the whole way of life so that few benefit from the new system). It is because they hate our liberal way of life and our UN and everything they stand for. So like good sociopaths everywhere... they exhaust the people they need to dominate. After all - how can they dominate Americans again like they did after 9/11 if they cannot exhaust us.

Once the Saddam Hussein trials start..we will understand what it is like to be exhausted by a psychopath into apathy. That is what Saddam did to the people there.

So to say you are exhausted is not to say you are a conservative. It means you are human. Only another sociopath or someone heavily medicated to withstand the onslaught of change and gamesmanship (like Bush) would not be exhausted.

[starroute]

15. More conservative and more liberal at the same time

My father-in-law once said to my husband with surprise, "I do believe you're more conservative than I am." "I am," he replied. "And also far more liberal."

Back half a century ago, one of the major distinctions between conservatives and liberals was that conservatives believed in gradual change, allowing institutions to evolve organically, and building on what already worked rather than scrapping existing systems to start from scratch. Liberals, on the other hand, were inclined to endorse radical social experiments, erect large, impersonal bureaucracies in place of local control, and dream of transforming the world overnight.

Two pivotal books from around 1960 -- Rachel Carson's "Silent Spring" and Jane Jacobs' "Life and Death of Great American Cities" -- were the first to attack standard liberal methods of solving problems (DDT and slum clearance, respectively) from the perspective of genuine left-wing values. Between them, they suggested that working with nature, working at a human scale, and working with existing communities were crucial to maintaining a liveable environment. A large chunk of this new way of thinking became part of hippie and eco-activist attitudes in the late 60's and early 70's.

Ever since then, the left has (often without quite noticing) moved more and more towards the side of gradual change and organic development. At the same time, the right has gleefully embraced radical solutions, the deliberate destruction of well-functioning systems, and a general slash-and-burn approach to social problems. These elements were always built into capitalism (Marx and Engels complained about them in "The Communist Manifesto"), but they were never part of general right-wing philosophy until the current crop of Neocons, anti-government activists, and traditional values types who want to haul us back into the Middle Ages.

These days, the liberals are, by any honest measure, the true Burkean conservatives, and we shouldn't be afraid to admit it.

[Stinky The Clown]

17. Thank you and thanks to everyone who responded to this post

My wife, who responded to this post upthread a bit, thought I might get my ass handed to me, charred from a flaming, for using the word "conservative" to describe myself and to suggest the word might apply to others on DU - and elsewhere. To suggest that those who fight the good fight from the left, those who believe so whole heartedly in the "liberal" cause might be conservative would be rejected outright.

But your reply, perhaps more than my original post, put some context to the notion. You shone a clear, bright light on the concept. Your post says exactly what I meant in my original post.

Thank you.

And please allow me to say that I am proud that those who are on my side prove time and again that we have the intelligence and the freedom of thought to consider a radical idea and see the kernel of truth.

[BeFree]

30. Ah, history

Ya know, your post made me wonder:::: Did Liberals not kick the ancient conservative's asses?

Didn't we stop their Viet Nam war? Didn't we help black people get a semblance of long denied human rights? How 'bout women, too?

We got government to stop, look and listen; too hear and see the anguished Earth crying for some relief? Didn't we pass many an environmentally correct law limiting corporate abuses of the land, sea and air?

We kicked their ass in the 60's and 70's. Since then we kinda set back and took to enjoying our efforts; resting on our laurels, as it were.

Well, they regrouped and are coming back strong. Time to teach them another lesson, eh? Geeez, when will this crap ever end? Or is it just history, history, history........

[Zorra]

18. I get alarmed when folks here romanticize and idealize "conservatism".

And I am very alarmed by this sugary sweet notion of "conservatism" that has been floating around DU for some ungodly reason. The RW media and its propagandists, for example Rush Limbaugh, have successfully given the word "liberal" a negative connotation while idealizing "conservative" as some type of heavenly goodness through years of repeated indoctrination. It's just plain bullshit. Your dictionary definition of conservative has nothing to do with the reality of political conservatism.

Political conservatives have been some of the most consistently backward and destructive forces in the history of our nation and humankind in general.

Political conservativism is essentially defined by a resistance to change and a tolerance for inequality.

I suggest that you are definitely not a conservative, and that most of us here absolutely are not conservatives.

BERKELEY – Politically conservative agendas may range from supporting the Vietnam War to upholding traditional moral and religious values to opposing welfare. But are there consistent underlying motivations?

Four researchers who culled through 50 years of research literature about the psychology of conservatism report that at the core of political conservatism is the resistance to change and a tolerance for inequality, and that some of the common psychological factors linked to political conservatism include:

Fear and aggression

Dogmatism and intolerance of ambiguity

Uncertainty avoidance

Need for cognitive closure

Terror management
"From our perspective, these psychological factors are capable of contributing to the adoption of conservative ideological contents, either independently or in combination," the researchers wrote in an article, "Political Conservatism as Motivated Social Cognition," recently published in the American Psychological Association's Psychological Bulletin.

http://www.berkeley.edu/news/media/releases/2003/07/22_politics.shtml

Let's stop romanticizing and idealizing this ridiculous notion that conservatism is good, because it is destructive to genuine political progress. IMO, we need to start promoting reality: that LIBERAL values, policies, and thought processes lead to creative, productive and constructive changes in all aspects of our socio-economic systems.

Herbert Hoover, Adolf Hitler, Ronald Reagan, Rush Limbaugh and George W. Bush are political conservatives.

Thomas Jefferson, FDR, JFK, RFK, and Bill Clinton are political LIBERALS. (Some people may disagree about Clinton)

Which of the above groups do you fit into?

I am a liberal and I AM PROUD TO BE A LIBERAL. Liberals are the creative thinkers that make the changes that make the world a better place to live for everyone.

'Democrats moving to the middle is a double disaster that alienates the party's progressive base while simultaneously sending a message to swing voters that the other side is where the good ideas are.' It unconsciously locks in the notion that the other side's positions are worth moving toward, while your side's positions are the ones to move away from. Plus every time you move to the center, the right just moves further to the right." George Lakoff

[UrbScotty]

19. We are PROGRESSIVE Conservatives.

What change we do seek is for everyone's benefit.

[Zorra]

20. But, seeking change for everyone's benefit is the definition of LIBERAL.

Liberal: Favoring democratic reform and the use of governmental resources to effect social progress.

[More Than A Feeling]

23. Noone is talking about changing our platform one whit

Just pointing out that we are closer to traditional conservatism where we are right now, and that Republicans have gone off the deep end of insanity.

[Zorra]

24. What I'm saying is that this vague, idealized "traditional conservatism"

is nothing but a complete myth, and that there is no reason to start calling ourselves "conservatives" or conservative just because the RW is attempting to redefine language and make "conservatism" into a more desirable thing.

All the points that Husb2sparkly posted are LIBERAL traditions, not conservative traditions. They never, ever applied to conservatives in any way shape or form in practical reality. Conservatives have always TRADITIONALLY been against, and fought tooth and nail against, just about every one of those nice things about America that Husb2Sparkly posted.

Why not just say, "I'm a liberal, and you just might be too..."

Because I gotta say, even though I fully agree that Bush and the neocons are radical nutcases, it was that warm cuddly myth of a traditional conservatism that got them elected, and the very real "traditional conservatives" that elected them.

[LdyGuique]

21. Everything is perspective

What we remember with nostalgia is frequently only part of the reality of those times. Our political notables have always wrapped the flag around our vision of reality -- this same reality has never existed for the Native Americans nor for many African-Americans. It hasn't existed for women overall.

I remember every public event that I attended during my youth began with a prayer conducted by a Christian. During that time, books were still censored and "banned in Boston," or at customs.

If one looks at foreign policy incidents that harmed many other countries, it's been an unbroken string since WWII -- and most likely before then. Corporate America has been practicing its brand of colonialism throughout the world for longer. The entire story of the Middle East since the early 1930s has been one long exploitation by foreign powers.

The Native American issue has been one long genocidal practice of treaty breaking. Just because it wasn't part of the daily consciousness of most Americans doesn't make it less true, for then or now.

I remember the civil rights issues of the 60s and the demand for equal jobs and equal wages that were fought by blacks and women. The reaction to Affirmative Action was as heartfelt over changes as many of the changes now happening. Defacto segregation caused just as much upset in the north as the segregationist policies of the south.

Selective memory and selective knowledge can always paint a better picture than really existed for many others. There were many who managed to live their lives safely in smaller communities and had so little contact with the outside world that all appeared to be as it was being lived in these enclaves.

Only some remember the "good old days" without tarnishment.

[Jesus Saves]

22. The right wing is not conservative

not in any way shape or form.

[Stinky The Clown]

25. That's my point, exactly

The RW is a bunch of radicals who are fomenting discontent to push their radical agenda.

[Just Me]

26. If longing for a transparent/responsible government that secures,...

,...the opportunity for ALL its people to have a chance, a shot at the pursuit of life, liberty and happiness is "conservative",...then, I am conservative.

If believing that the government is supposed to advance the interests of and empower all its people,...then, I am conservative.

[VOX]

27. Call the right wing what it is: **RADICAL**!!!!!!!!

In no way do the people who are running this country even resemble smaller-government, fiscally responsible, live-and-let-live, old-school conservatives.

They are the **RADICAL** right wing, with a big-government-big-spend agenda of lies and hatred, and this needs to be repeated as often as possible.

[Old and In the Way]

28. Conservatives vs. Liberals

That's the labels the criminals use to distract and divide the people and steal us blind.

Great post.