If you're against spam you're anti-small business

[LoganW]

I'm surprised how many DUers are against spam. I don't like it either, but I recognize that it's a means for smalls business and individuals to compete in the business place.

Both TV and radio bombard you with advertisements with out consent for something you pay for just like your email. (either in taxes and/or cable bills) Same for papers and magazines. The only difference is the corporations are able to spend millions on far more effective advertising, and they can see to it congress outlaws the little persons advertising while protecting theirs. In fact, it seems the corporations are strongly pushing for it. When they say it costs them "millions" I wonder how much of that is from the threat of competition?

Spam is the little persons advertising. With out cheap advertising like electronic advertising how could a small business or individual possibly compete with corporations? Most can't put up millions for a TV spot. And if you're a small business you NEED that advertisement. You can't set up a million wal-marts across the nation to sell cheap plastic crap and just have people venture in.

As far as I'm concerned if you're against spam in the form of outlawing it with prison you're essentially pro-big corporations, anti-small business, and anti-competition unless you also want to make just as annoying (if not more so) big multi-million advertisements illegal as well.

[Kikosexy2]

1. If you're against ...

sperm..then you're anti-Pro-Life. wink, wink.

[LoganW]

2. Thanks for conceeding the point

[morgan2]

the problem with spam

is that it destroys the intended purpose of email. If spam wasnt policed by the isps how it is now, everyone would be getting litterally millions of mails a day rendering email to much of a hassle to use. As it is now it'll get you kicked off almost every network in the United States and is relagated to being hosted in third world countries. Most of the people spamming are large semicriminal organizations.

[LoganW]

7. This is a weak argument

Was TV and radio invented with the intention of being mass marketing technology? What about newspapers and magazines? Talk about non-stop advertising.

Let's stop going over the top as well. "Millions"? Most inboxes can only hold a couple hundred messages.

[RoyGBiv]

18. Size of an inbox ...

Yes, many are limited to the number of messages that can be accepted, which is in fact part of the point you seem to have missed. If my inbox is filled to its limit with SPAM, the legitimate e-mails I need to see cannot get through.

[LoganW]

27. There is a lot you can do to reduce spam

I get around 2-3 a day with an email address that has been in existance for 5 years.

A lot of people almost ASK for spam when they throw their email address around all over the net.

[RoyGBiv]

55. So ...

Your theory is that it's up to us to hide our contact information in order to protect our own access to something we pay to use? Or, to put it another way, if I didn't want to be raped, I shouldn't have walked out into public wearing a short skirt?

If you're getting 2-3 unsolicited e-mails a day, consider the lengths your ISP has gone to, resources they are using and for which they are charging you, to prevent the level of SPAM you could be collecting. I suspect you have no idea the kind of work that goes into blocking SPAM at all levels along the network. That is time, effort, money, processing power, and, yes, bandwidth that could be put to better use. Now, before you say it, bandwidth by itself is not the issue and never has been. Bandwidth is a part of it, but a very small part.

Colour me unimpressed with the logic. I find it insane that I have to go to extreme lengths to hide my legitimate e-mail address just so I can participate in discussion forums, subscribe to newsletters and other services I want, etc. Thankfully some controls are in place that make this not quite the chore that it could be, but it's still too much.

[LoganW]

80. Charging me?

I've got a free email account... Somehow I doubt they care how much spam I get.

[RoyGBiv]

You're being charged ...

You just don't realize it.

[Orsino]

164. If you really believe in your small businessman...

...you could volunteer your own e-mail address here to help him out.

If you ever find out who he is, I have many, many customers who would dearly love to know his identity. I suspect, though, that he would not closely resemble your mental picture of him.

[Dorian Gray]

171. But, if you hide your email address from those companies

then you are not supporting those small companies, either. So by avoiding spam, how are your actions different than those of us who try to block spam from our accounts? What's the difference?

[mac56]

177. Blame the victim, eh?

Bullshit.

[Fescue4u]

67. YES...MILLIONS

99% of spam is never delivered. Its just bounces against unknown address, back at real people and businesses....eating up bandwidth of small and large business alike.

[Ladyhawk]

148. Yes, spam eats up bandwidth and it should be abolished.

Bandwidth is limited and it belongs to all of us. Misusing it by spamming is beneath contempt. It's a limited resource. Spammers are like Humvee drivers, wasting a resource that belongs to all of us.

[question everything]

150. No, it interferes with businesses - large and small

Especially when spam goes to emails of people at work.

I don't have the stats now, but it has been reported that people wasted enormous amount of time each day just deleting spams.

When you get junk in the mail, it does not take you much time to just grab everything and toss it, though it does take me time to open all the credit card solicitation and to tear the forms.

Similarly, when you watch TV or listen to the radio you do not have to take the time to "delete them." But spam clutters your inbox, and I think that there are many that can clearly reach their maximum capacity with all the spam, especially if they do not check their email every day.

Sorry, pal, this is the wrong crowd to preach your very bizarre and twisted notion of emails.

[Wickerman]

3. I am anti-fraud, mostly

I've seen little in the way of Spam that represents legitimate business.

[LoganW]

4. Really?

Almost all small businesses with a web site I have ever used can sign you up for email ads when you visit their site. Every small business I've bought from on the net has been legit, and there are a lot of them.

Fraud is already illegal. You don't need to kill small business advertising to make fraud illegal.

[Wickerman]

11. seems like you came on loaded for bear

so, Getting email ads that you request is not Spam. Spam is unsolicited advertising.

Surely you have heard of all the porn site ads, the viagra ads, the penis enlargement ads. Have you had good luck with those industries? Do you receive the million dollars that Col A. had stashed away in Equador?

I have no problem with a small business sending me a targeted email when I have requested such. Sending me stuff that I have not asked for is Spam and it is an intrusion on my inbox.

[LoganW]

29. There are plenty of legit advertisements

Along with the more pointless ones.

You don't ever think the big corporations sell crap? Small businesses can be the same way.

[Wickerman]

35. You are purposely missing the point

If I opt in, its not Spam. YOu want to talk about direct advertising via email - great talk about it - but don't add unsolicited email into the equation - they are two different creatures.

[RoyGBiv]

23. You're not describing SPAM ...

If I sign up for "news" about new products, offers, etc., what I'm receving is not SPAM.

[i miss america]

5. The fallacy with your argument is that you presume spammers use

legit channels. They don't. They steal resources through hacked or open relays. Think of it as sort of like someone breaking into your house and making millions of long distance phone calls on your dime.

Spamming is unethical and is rightfully now being treated as the crime it is.

[LoganW]

12. This isn't how it works

If I send 1 email or 100 it doesn't cost anything more.

Most phone calls in the united states are free now ANYWHERE as long as you use the right service (VOIP). Electronic communication is not as expensive as some people think it is.

Let me put it in perspevtive for you. People regularly download legal demo software that is a couple hundred megabytes now. Literally hundreds of thousands of people do every day, especially with games. This is what the corporations in that business want.

Just ONE of those downloads is equal to the bandwidth consumed by SEVERAL HUNDRED or even thousands of emails.

Now, realize that EVERY DAY hundreds of thousands of those downloads occur. You don't hear the corporations crying about those downloads that dwarf resources consumed by spam a million times over.

[i miss america]

123. We're talking about two different things

I think you're referring to sending a mailing to existing customers or clients. Spamming is a term referring to unwanted bulk emails, sent not to hundreds of users, but to hundreds of thousands or even millions.

Big difference.

[Occulus]

179. don't start with false statements

"If I send 1 email or 100 it doesn't cost anything more."

Untrue. It costs both your dime to pay for the bandwidth to send it and my dime to pay for the bandwidth to receive it, and sending each one costs the same amount. Email servers do not give bulk mail discounts.

You're also confusing email with telephones. Email doesn't have a "do not pay for incoming messages" option because the bandwidth is paid for on both ends. Even on a Hotmail account, somebody pays for the bandwidth.

Email isn't like telephones, where the only person paying for it is the one who pays for the call itself. Email is like dropping in a dime to answer a ringing phone- someone always pays when you read your email.

The only time this might not be true is in a case where the email is originating on the server it's being read from by the recipient (like two Hotmail accounts, or two university accounts at the same school), in which case it's only the server's CPU cycles that are 'lost' (or, I should say, used). This is one reason why student UNIX and VAX/VMS accounts have quotas (they often happen to be represented by "dollars" of CPU time): so students cannot abuse the computer resources available to them. Further, most universities have policies allowing for termination of accounts for sending spam via the school's network.

But you were talking about spam in general, and the fact is, you don't seem to have even a good grasp on how email works. This says a lot, right here:

"Most phone calls in the united states are free now ANYWHERE as long as you use the right service (VOIP). Electronic communication is not as expensive as some people think it is."

Apples and oranges. No valid comparison. Email is not like telephones.

"Let me put it in perspevtive for you. People regularly download legal demo software that is a couple hundred megabytes now. Literally hundreds of thousands of people do every day, especially with games. This is what the corporations in that business want.

Just ONE of those downloads is equal to the bandwidth consumed by SEVERAL HUNDRED or even thousands of emails."

Most email accounts are bandwidth-limited, as are upload speeds. If corporate bandwidth were truly symmetric, you'd see lots more movies and such being offered online by the general public, but we generally have faster download speeds than upload speeds. Also, most corporate ISPs impose a limit on the size of email uploads.

Email wasn't intended, nor is it commonly used, for the comparison you're trying to make. You're not supposed to be able to transfer large files via email. Email is just that... E. Mail.

Regardless, there's still the price issue regarding bandwidth in both examples. In each case, it costs to upload and download. Since some spammers use others' accounts as their own to send spam, usually through some backdoor on the server or a malicious app covertly installed by an ActiveX control or some such, that makes their sending of the spam in the first place a crime akin to cable TV theft.

"Just ONE of those downloads is equal to the bandwidth consumed by SEVERAL HUNDRED or even thousands of emails."

Email servers are separate entities from HTTP and FTP servers, with different IP addresses than the servers used for HTTP and FTP. They're often on completely different machines. They may even have different admin personnel.

[rucky]

16. My small business spends hundreds of dollars on opt-in lists

am I still a spammer?

[i miss america]

125. If the opt-in list is legitimate then no. If the opt-in list consists of

people who don't want unsolicited email and their unsubcribe requests are not honored, then yes.

Be careful. If a few complaints are filed to your hosting provider, you are likely to be dropped, and worse, your domain forever blacklisted.

[rucky]

139. how do you know for sure? n/t

[Occulus]

181. you ASK. n/t

[dsewell]

6. This is one of the spammers' oldest arguments, and it's not a good one.

I made my own satirical attempt to demolish this one nearly 10 years ago, when one of the first self-promoting email spammers was getting a lot of media attention:

The Spam King and Pancho Villa

[LoganW]

8. Why is it not a good one

other than you saying so?

[dsewell]

22. Okay, let's try some philosophy.

A social evil is not elevated or justified simply because it is more useful to the poor and oppressed than it is to the rich and powerful.

By that argument, the laws against street robbery are unjust, because a poor person is much more likely to hold someone up than a wealthy person. It's true that our sense of justice is outraged if a starving man gets a life sentence for stealing a loaf of bread, but that's because the punishment is cruelly disproportional.

If small businesspeople are unable to compete on equal footing without resorting to sociopathic behavior, the answer is to address the inequality rather than to permit the sociopathic behavior.

[Donailin]

9. I advertise in the paper

the local gazette -- the paper all residents get every wednesday.75 bucks. I got more work (thousands of dollars worth)from that crummy little ad than I did when I spent hundreds on some fancy ad that "spammed" folks snailmail-boxes. In fact, I didn't get one response from it.

I don't like to advertise in an unsolicited fashion, just as I don't like being solicited. I think the majority of people feel that way, but I could be wrong. Just going by my experience.

[LoganW]

17. Depends on your business

can your business cover the whole country? If you perform a service I doubt it.

If your selling stuff by mail it's a WHOLE different story.

[rucky]

19. sounds like you're in the service industry

what about people trying to sell products nationally?

different media is good for different things.

just seems that email is good for reaching people who want a larger penis. seriously, though I do alright selling doggie treats on the internet with minimal unsolicited sales pitches.

[Donailin]

28. yes, service, but I was applying the connotation

similar to that of junk snailmail, I think there are similarities.

If I were selling doggie treats, I would hook up with pet websites folks visit on their own accord. Not sure if I would agree that someones visiting a link entitles an advertiser to take your email address and solicit you though.

[Walt Starr]

10. If you're against spam, you're against theft

Spammers steal terabits of bandwidth daily. They are nothing less than thieves.

[LoganW]

21. Walt

Do you have any idea how much bandwidth email takes compared to other forms of data transfers?

Somehow I doubt you realize what a terabyte actually is.(News "terabits" are actually smaller)

Walt, are you aware that millions of people make legal downloads of game demo software every day? Are you aware just ONE of those downloads is usually a couple hundred megabytes?

Are you aware that a couple hundred megabytes is equal to hundreds or even thousands of emails?

That should put things in to perspective for you. Bandwidth is dirt cheap. If it was really costing ISPs as much as they would have you think it was demo software would be swiftly outlawed because it would be (and is) many thousands of times worse than spam alone in the amount of bandwidth it takes daily.

[da_chimperor]

30. *** 88% of ALL e-mail traffic is SPAM. ***

http://www.govtech.net/magazine/channel_story.php?channel=4&id=93028

I can't even imagine why the hell you're supporting spammers. Oh well, it's your headache . . . not mine. :shrug:

[Commie Pinko Dirtbag]

38. "Headache?" More likely "occupation" if you ask me.

That, of course, is speculation of my part. But plausible speculation, I daresay.

[da_chimperor]

44. I was referring to the breaking shitstorm the OP has brought down upon

him or herself. :)

[Dave Reynolds]

120. I think you may be right,

I had the same notion.

[Walt Starr]

34. I am a Network Engineering Manager, yes, I know

and I also know the billions of spams sent daily steal terabits of bandwidth. I know how much the company I work for pays for Spam which we filter at the perimeter. That's just the bandwidth, then there's the spam filtering appliances we use and maintenance on those appliances.

It all comes out of my budget and I've done the analysis. I also control everything at the edge. We do massive downloads because I work for a software development firm.

I am all too familiar with the costs. Any company with traffic patterns similar to mine will be paying the same. I guarantee you, spamming costs the corporations of this world billions upon billons.

And the Telecom companies smile all the way to the bank. That's why this conviction is the exception and never will be the rule.

[jayfish]

132. Just Out Of Curiosity,...

what % of your traffic is SPAM? I've been running about 95% since I started to filter. That's a ton of BW clogging my T-1, my router, my firewall and my mail server It was startling to see.

Jay

[Walt Starr]

144. On good days it's only 75% of all email traffic

On really bad days it's greater than 99% of email traffic. So edge mail servers need to be much more expensive than they should have to be for legitimate traffic in order to allow legitimate traffic to get in due to the bogus traffic from these leaches.

We have a burstable DS3 and traffic continues to grow due to the crap these vampiric ticks spew out constantly.

Then there's the expense of having spam blocking devices at the edge, maintaining them, administering them, and updating them.

Overall the cost will take away a few cents in earnings per share each quarter for any publicly traded company IF it never hits a mailbox. When it hits a mailbox the cost increases dramatically due to lost productivity.

[jayfish]

134. Here Is Where You Are Incorrect.

If I get a small piece of SPAM that does not fill an entire packet. Too bad for me, that packet is used up and takes the same amount of bandwidth that a full packet does. Multiply that by millions and you will start to see the problem.

Jay

[Occulus]

180. oops, that's another one I didn't think of

Well well.

Are you getting the impression that Certain Parties either don't know how email works, or have a reason for wanting to defend spammers?

I am.....

[Walt Starr]

151. I'm still waiting for a response. Why do you support these leaches

stealing the bandwidth my company pays for to attempt to deliver their unsolicited crap? This is bandwidth I pay an ISP for. Why should they be allowed to steal that from me?

[SidDithers]

159. Hmmm, no response from the OP...

and after he was so sure that you didn't know your ass from a terabit.

Thanks for you contribution to the thread, Walt.

Sid

[Walt Starr]

161. Not a problem. I see a minimum of 4 megaabits stolen by these blood

sucking vampiric leaches every day from my company alone, and we're not a laarge company.

[da_chimperor]

13. That's quite a broad brush you've got there.

Was it custom made?

I'm against spam because it's fucking annoying. I'd go out of my way to avoid any product advertised by spam. Any small-business owner that thinks they can make a business using spam for advertising should re-think their business plan, because from a marketing point of view I think they're fucked. There's too much crap being advertised by spam for consumers to trust it as a medium.

[Donailin]

24. That's my perspective.

Whenever I see spam in my email, or get unsolicited phone calls (despite the fact that I'm on the DNC list) I actually remember the brand and associate negatively with it. But then, I don't frequent malls either, I'm not your typical american consumer. But there are lots of people who are -- those types that shop on QVC, for instance. They strike me as dumb. (if I'm wrong on that, I apologize) But they would likely be the type who would buy viagra or get a home equity loan online.

[da_chimperor]

37. I've got no problem with the stuff I've signed up for

but woe is the company that thinks they can market something to me using unsolicited e-mail. I totally agree about the QVC shoppers being more likely to buy something advertised by a spammer. I've always viewed products advertised on TV as something to be skeptical of, but evidently lots of people buy from QVC. I don't really understand it.

[RiDuvessa]

153. Actually

QVC has come a long way from where they started. Most of the merchandise they sell is good quality and relatively inexpensive. At least QVC has their own network that I can block from my channel scan.

Spammers are a low form of life, about equal to slugs.

[Kerrytravelers]

14. I don't mind legit ads from local small businesses,

but I'm tired of porn. And real gross pron subject lines. I don't open it, but somehow I get it. The only time I went on a pron site was when I typed whitehouse.com instead of whithouse.gov Ooopsss. Infront of my second and third grade students, too.

How can one stop the unwanted spam and only get legit local small business spam?

[Commie Pinko Dirtbag]

15. I work at an ISP. You don't fool me.

Legitimate smal businesses DO get by without spamming, thank you very much. Spam is theft of resources, pure and simple. Especially when it delivered by way of infecting other people's PCs with viruses.

[LoganW]

25. Oh you do?

So what do you do about all the people downloading pointless legal demo software?

An average email is around 4KB. Software is a couple hundred megabytes and occurs just as frequently. Explain how you put that in perspective.

[Commie Pinko Dirtbag]

33. I block your beloved spam so my customers are ABLE to

download "pointless" legal demo software, which isn't by any stretch of the imagination pointless since the customer WANTS to download it, and PAYS us to be able to do it.

And those 4KB e-mails DO add up to as much bandwidth as you have. It's like bacteria on a petri dish. I know -- I've seen it firsthand.

[LoganW]

39. Hmmm

Does any other data pass through your ISP on it's way to someone else not affiliated with you ISP? Don't lie - you know it does. By your logic you're getting robbed every second.

[da_chimperor]

53. Damn, you're in for a smackdown.

:popcorn:

[Commie Pinko Dirtbag]

66. Sometimes I'm WAY more polite than I'd like to be. (nt)

[da_chimperor]

72. My mother would approve. n/t

:)

[Commie Pinko Dirtbag]

61. Yes -- data generated by our customers. Only.

That's how ISPs work. Your point was?

[LoganW]

64. No it's not how ISPs work

unless you run yours out of a house.

ISPs carry data between other ISPs. Take a look at your email headers since you apparently don't understand how this works. You'll notice it hops between different servers before it actually reaches you.

[Commie Pinko Dirtbag]

77. Only if they run open e-mail relays

And only shady ISPs in Asia or somewhere do that anymore, and they end up in blackhole lists where they belong. No ISP has to accept e-mail originated from outside the network if its final destination isn't someone in it.

Believe me, you picked the WRONG person, at the WRONG time, on the WRONG subject, to pick an argument. I've been dealing with this shit for the better part of a decade now.

[RoyGBiv]

81. I'm sorry ...

You have absolutely no idea what you're talking about.

[Swamp Rat]

65. Brigado! Ese cara, e outros como ele, É o problema!

:thumbsup:

[Commie Pinko Dirtbag]

79. Ainda bem que os mods não sabem o que "vai tomar no cu" significa (nt)

[Swamp Rat]

92. Também ese filho putativo não sabe, mas é divertido falar dele o mesmo

tempo que praticar o português. :)

Agora, tenho meu dicionário Brasileiro de insultos em frente de mim... ele é um sacaneador! :D

edit: o mosca está emperrado! "Help me... heeeelp meeee!"

[Commie Pinko Dirtbag]

98. O que se usa e "sacana". Mas eu preferiria...

Babaca
Filha da puta
Corno
Mané
Merdão
Bundão

Para referir-se ao nosso caro defensor de publicidade não-solicitada.

[Swamp Rat]

109. Doh!

Então, eu digo 'sacana' a ele!.. malandro bocório!

Babaca e corno, certo! Mané... :D ... Bundão... :rofl:

'Merdão' não está no dicionário mas eu entendo. ;)

Tem mais? Eu gosto de aprender palavras.:)

[Commie Pinko Dirtbag]

112. Infelizmente

MUITOS palavrões brasileiros são homofóbicos. Eu os usava como qualquer outro, até que progressivamente minha consciência começou a reclamar.

[Swamp Rat]

116. Sim sim.

Também eu conheço mais palavrões como "veado" (aprendei quando fui aos jogos de futebol) e quero usar com ese cara-de-pau, mas não quero ofender nenhum dos meus amigos... por causa de minha consciência.

[jayfish]

137. I'm Confused About How You Equate...

downloading something that I request using bandwidth that I pay for, with receiving something I did not request where the sender uses bandwidth they did not pay for. Can you explain how those two are even remotely similar?

Jay

[rman]

168. what's pointless about legal demo software?

do i get to decide which software/email/whatever is useful to me, or does some low life spammer get to decide for me?

[bitchkitty]

169. One has nothing to do with the other.

Stop being so deliberately obtuse. Obviously, if someone clicks a damned link to download something, they want the damned download.

[Kinkistyle]

20. If you're against me shouting in your face, you're pro-censorship. n/t

[gratuitous]

26. No, spam by definition is unsolicited

It isn't paid for in the sense that advertising in other media is paid for, and indeed actually steals bandwidth from an internet service provider in order to put out an advertisement that is neither solicited by the receiver, nor paid for by the advertiser.

You're sort of jumping around with your point, mixing spam with informational and advertising emails sent out by small businesses to people who request those emails. Are you talking about unsolicited spam or requested information? Your attempt to mix the two indicates a weakness in the bad point you're poorly trying to make.

Further, if spam is a legitimate tool of the plucky entrepreneur (as you assert) rather than the willful theft of bandwidth from an ISP in hopes of suckering the gullible (as everyone else on the planet asserts), then why don't ALL small businesses spam, and why don't spammers provide a legitimate return address or a phone number for individual responses? It's because spammers are interested solely in fleecing the sheep, not in establishing a legitimate business relationship.

Your argument is a non sequitur, and purposely confuses the difference between solicited requests for emails and unsolicited spam. Further, you indulge in inflammatory "anti-small businessman" rhetoric, when no such conclusion is warranted. As such, your argument fails. Quite miserably, I might add.

[LoganW]

32. How?

"It isn't paid for in the sense that advertising in other media is paid for, and indeed actually steals bandwidth from an internet service provider in order to put out an advertisement that is neither solicited by the receiver, nor paid for by the advertiser."

How is it different than TV ads for instance?

The spammer pays his ISP for the bandwidth it takes to send the mail. It then hits other ISPs that granted he did not pay.

Same for TV though. You can pay for time on FOX. Does Cox cable get paid for that ad? Nope. But it goes through their lines. By your logic all the networks are "stealing" from the cable companies.

Everyone that visits DU unless they donate is taking DU bandwidth. Are they "stealing"? If I send an email it can go through a ton of ISPs before it gets to your inbox. I'm not paying any of those ISPs it goes through. Am I stealing from them? You don't pay them either. Are you?

[Beware the Beast Man]

41. TV's don't automatically change the channel to one showing commercials.

TV's don't air 5 simultaneous commercials when all you want to do is watch the news.

There's no comparison. Spam is a nuisance.

[gratuitous]

60. I see you avoided every point

Nicely done. Buh-bye, grundle-James.

[Beware the Beast Man]

31. Great, so it's the small business that have taken over my computer,

rendering it useless without constant monitoring, virus-checking and spyware removing. In all due respect, if that's the way "small business" want to operate, I'll take the big corporations. At least Best Buy doesn't throw bricks through my windows with circulars tied to them.

[LoganW]

36. Small businesses make viruses?

Gee I thought that was a different group of people.

[Beware the Beast Man]

43. What is adware?

It's usually the same "companies" that spam people with e-mails.

[LoganW]

45. Adware is totally different from a virus

A virus is inteded to destroy your system. Adware is intended to market to you.

[jakefrep]

136. Adware is just as much of a pain in the ass as spam nt

[Occulus]

183. By, if necessary, making your system unusable for naught but ads. n/t

[minerva50]

40. I get hundreds a day, all unsolicited. It is theft.

I have a filter that puts them into a bulk folder, which I empty, after skimming through the addresses and subjects. This is a theft of my time and resources and that of my ISP.

Legitimate businesses can advertise in better ways. Spam is worthless. Who even reads it anymore?

[LoganW]

42. Can you take a screen shot for me?

I somehow doubt these "hundreds of emails a day" claims. I'd like to see it.

[da_chimperor]

49. Don't doubt it. I've once received something like 300 e-mails in 24 hour.

Way back in the mid-90's. It only happened once, but it's happened to me and I'm sure it's happened to others on DU.

[LoganW]

58. So in other words

no one can present evidence to back up these "hundreds a day" claims. As expected.

[da_chimperor]

68. Since when is a digital image evidence?

I could whip-up a photo-shopped screenshot showing that I had thousands of spam e-mails if I wanted to. Why don't I? Because it's not worth my time. Oh, and read this if you haven't yet, and tell me you're still pro-spam.

http://www.govtech.net/magazine/channel_story.php?channel=4&id=93028

[LoganW]

71. Because I doubt

you would waste your life generating a fake photoshop image of your inbox.

Still waiting for the "hundreds of emails" screen shot.

[da_chimperor]

86. You know what, as indefensible your position is, you keep defending it.

I'm going to call you Chucky from now on. The thing is, Chucky, I don't have a screenshot of when I received a shitload of spam e-mails all at once back in the mid 90's. I don't because at the time I didn't know how to take screenshots, and even if I did I would have better use for hard-drive space than storing a crusty old bitmap file. So have you read the link yet, Chucky? I'm quite sure it'll give you some new perspective on spam. Happy reading Chucky! :hi:

[Orsino]

178. Still waiting for your e-mail address...

...posted here in support of your downtrodden "small businessman."

I work for a large business, and one of my e-mail boxes reguarly gets over a hundred pieces of spam per day. Because my administrator has yet to apply a filter to this box, I'm forced to check each message to ensure I don't miss important real traffic. This amounts to a couple-few minutes per day that your "small businessman" is stealing from my company.

No matter how many people don't receive hundreds of spammed mails per day, you will not have made your case any more persuasive. Will you continue to try to distract opponents of spam by pretending to care how many unsolicited e-mails each receives per day?

Go on. Try to persuade me that your "small businessman" should continue to waste my company's resources weeding out his fraudulent and misspelled commercial solicitations.

[Orsino]

185. Just realized I've been successfully trolled...

I figured the post count was a guarantee of serious intent, but I believe that I was wrong.

Got me.

[rman]

172. Then how much spam do you think people receive?

It's amazing: first you defend spam, saying we should live with the inconvenience because it's good for small busines. Then you turn around and say it's not an inconvenience.
If people would recieve only a small amount of spam, then spam would hardly be the issue that is to begin with, and there'd be no need for anyone to defend it.

[WilliamPitt]

56. I also get hundreds a day

I get about 100-150 work emails every 24 hours. Everything else is spam. My email account is connected to my Blackberry, which has 10 megs of memory. That amounts to between 400-600 emails before the thing maxes out. I have to clean out the blackberry pretty much every 36 hours.

So, 150 work emails but between 400-600 emails total. What are the rest? I'll give you a clue: If I took advantage of every 'Enlarge Your Penis qxd' email I get, I could smash down the Brooklyn Bridge with my dick.

Spam sucks.

[Kerrytravelers]

88. could smash down the Brooklyn Bridge with my dick

lol lol lol lol lol lol lol lol

:rofl: :rofl: :rofl: :rofl: :rofl: :rofl: :rofl: :rofl:



So, Mr. Pitt. Do you hate small business? Why do you hate America?

[VelmaD]

93. You mean you can't already?

I'm crushed. :cry:

[DearAbby]

129. Gawd Will...Stop beating about the bush and come out and say what you

mean...:evilgrin:

[RiDuvessa]

155. Best laugh I've had all week...

eom

:applause: :thumbsup:

:yourock:

[Dorian Gray]

184. Bwah!

That I'd like to see, WilliamPitt!

[minerva50]

82. I can take a screen shot, but I don't know what I'd do with it

I currently have 316 peices of mail in my bulk folder. 70 from today, 118 from Thursday and 128 from Wednesday. So perhaps I exagerate somewhat, but it does run over 100 a day.

[da_chimperor]

96. Don't worry about it.

The OP doesn't seem to be very interested in logical or factual arguments. :hi:

[Commie Pinko Dirtbag]

101. I tells ya, the style gives me deja vu. (nt)

[Name removed]

48. Deleted message

Message removed by moderator. Click here to review the message board rules.

[LoganW]

76. That would actually be a good idea

[Name removed]

131. Deleted message

Message removed by moderator. Click here to review the message board rules.

[BlueJazz]

46. I have a small ISP business and I blocked Spam fairly..

...well.
I don't like it or read it and my customers hate it.
If anybody wants my approval to send Spam, they can get it by sending me their home Phone Number.

[LoganW]

50. That's fine

I mute the TV when I see a wal-mart commerical. But I don't think the commercials deserves jail time.

Nor do I think other forms of advertisement do.

[BlueJazz]

74. There's one BIG thing that you forget >>>

A large share of Spam is like this:

"Horny Slut Wifes Fuck GIANT Dicks"
"Cum-Laden High School Cheerleaders suck you Off!"
"Your next Door neighbor cheats on her husband"

I mean..if spam were just simple offers and ads, I probably wouldn't be so dead set against it.

Don't blame Folks for not liking Spam...Blame the Low-Life Fuckers who insist on offending 99 percent of the Populace..

[Pithlet]

47. Radio and TV ads

Don't interfere with my communication with others. Radio and TV ads aren't rendering an entire form of communication almost useless. There is a difference.

[LoganW]

52. Oh please

email is useless now? Riiighhttt.

[da_chimperor]

57. Take a look at this, in case you missed it.

http://www.govtech.net/magazine/channel_story.php?channel=4&id=93028

[Dave Reynolds]

124. Somehow, I think

the OP is not trying your link.

I did, very informative.

[Pithlet]

84. Very nearly so

Because it's so cheap to flood. Imagine what would happen if the amount of junk mail going through the post office quadrupled or more. It would at the very least clog the system slowing it down, and eventually could halt it altogether. The postal service has a finite amount of mail they can handle The only reason they aren't flooded by junk mail past capacity is money. It costs money to send junk mail, so companies are limited in the amount they can send. With email, they aren't, nearly to the same degree. Once you have the proper equipment, it doesn't matter if it is a hundred emails or a million. The internet, and the email system is finite in the amount of information it can handle, just like the post office is. If companies could flood your post office box the way they can flood your email, it would greatly affect the way you receive and send mail.

Man, you're really defending spam, to the point of absurdity. Many people have pointed out, with solid facts, why spam is worse than TV and radio ads, and you not only ignore it, but start getting all "Please, RIIIIIIIIGHHHHHHT". Usually a sign someone isn't effectively backing up their argument.

[Lydia Leftcoast]

51. I'm self-employed, and your argument is bogus

Literally 99% of the spam I get is unsolicited come-ons for really raunchy pornography, penis enlargement (which I definitely don't need), Viagra (ditto), Nigerian scam letters, other unclassifiable scam letters, and fraudulent attempts to get hold of the PIN numbers for my bank accounts.

Maybe 1% is something I will even consider for a second, but I have NEVER bought anything offered in spam. Ever.

Spam is not the equivalent of advertising circulars in the mail. It is the equivalent of the fraudulent "charity" calling you during dinner in an attempt to get your credit card number.

Nor are the mailings I request to be considered spam. I requested them from businesses that I'm interested in.

I certainly hope you are not one of the people whose mailings offer me a subscription to child pornography, because I would hate to think that a DUer was involved in that.

[Dave Reynolds]

126. We may need to coin a term,

DUerINO.

I'll work on the pronunciation.B-)

[tammywammy]

54. I'm against junk mail and spam

I didn't ask for email about penis enlargement, Viagra, low LOW mortgages, credit counseling, credit card offers, etc. First, I don't have a penis, I don't own a house and cannot afford one, I don't need credit counseling or another credit cards.

I didn't ask for this I don't want it. That's spam.

Now, I did sign up for information on sales at certain websites. I did ask for certain news and Dear Prudence updates. That's not spam, I invited them into my email account.

I had to switch providers because with hotmail, I was getting 400+ pieces of spam a day. I had to set it to where only people on my list could email me, which meant I missed emails from people if I didn't already have theirs.

Thankfully now I have a great email account, where I get a piece of unsolicited mail once a month.

[Withywindle]

59. I block spam, and I report it

for the same reason I screen my calls for telemarketers.

I pay for phone and internet service for MY convenience, not anyone else's.


I've been on the Internet for 10 years. At no point have I *ever* bought a product or a service that came to my attention via unsolicited email. I don't know anyone who has ever done so. (A quick survey of my department here at work reveals no one who has done so). I find it hard to imagine any circumstances under which I would.

[Lydia Leftcoast]

63. Spam is the equivalent of

disruptors on DU. :-)

[Withywindle]

69. Only less entertaining when it's tombstoned. n/t

[Fescue4u]

62. TRUE! how else can a small pornographer succeed??

And just think of the billions of dollars in Nigerian royal money that would never be claimed?

And god help me if I don't reactivate my paypal account on a daily basis.

I have a small business, and I've spent thousands FIGHTING spam.

Everyday I get about 300 spam messages in my inbox that must be sorted to find the 5 or 6 real messages that earn money.

Spam hurts ALL businesses, and benefits only a handful.

[LoganW]

73. Fraud and spam are two different things

everything you listed is fraud, not marketing.

[Fescue4u]

83. most spam IS fraud.

and spam that isnt fraud is outright theft of someone else resources.


Keep on spamming though. Maybe you can share a cell with this guy..


http://www.newsfactor.com/story.xhtml?story_id=32576

[Swamp Rat]

70. If you are FOR spam, you are FOR the Anti-Christ!

If you are FOR spam, you must work for Satan!

If you are FOR spam, you HATE America!

:spank:

[da_chimperor]

90. Damn, I was expecting one of your trippy graphics.

:evilfrown:

[Swamp Rat]

99. Ok, here's my latest... maybe you've already seen it?

[da_chimperor]

102. That hit the spot.

Thanks! :hi:

[Kerrytravelers]

75. My husband works for Yahoo. If you want to advertise, call him.

Seriously. They have all kinds of programs and ways for businesses to advertise, either locally, nationally or internationally. If anyone is interested, send me a PM and I'll give you his work phone number. Tell him how you got the number. He won't screw you ove- you'll get a good deal and he'll get an honest sale.

(He is so honest, never tries to get people to buy what won't benefit them the most. I promise!)

[LoganW]

78. Here's an example right here

you just marketed to everyone with out consent. You might make a sale now. According to some you just stole DUs bandwidth.

[Commie Pinko Dirtbag]

87. Only if she repeats that post 1000s of times a day.

So many fallacies, so little time.

[da_chimperor]

91. Wow Chucky, that's just like comparing apples to rocks.

Spam and an internet message board . . . :wow:

[Kerrytravelers]

95. Ah... good try.. but I did not...

1. invade anyone's personal space

2. send the same thing over and over again, day after endless day

3. send the same thing, day after endless day from a new address every day even after I've been blocked and asked to stop.

4. there was no attempt to sell a particular item, but only to offer YOU space to advertise YOUR items/goods/services.

5. used no form of proragraphic verbage nor foul laungage.

6. I did, however, stay on a subject that we were discussing on this thread. Advertising.

This is advertising. Invading your email uninvitedis spam and most people hate it.

[Fescue4u]

85. hey..here's some other spins you can try

If you are against spam, then you enjoy having a small penis.

If you are against spam, then you support George Bush

If you are against spam, then you support pedophila

If you are against spam, then you you're a Republican

If you are against spam, then you a bad bad person

I

[Vinca]

89. I'd love to know how effective spam really is. I would never,

under any circumstance, buy something from a spammer . . . even if I wanted it. Pop-ups annoy the hell out of me, too, and they'd never get my business either.

[Pithlet]

97. Because it is cheap

Even if they get only a small amount of people clicking their spam and buying stuff, it's worth it.

[Name removed]

94. Deleted message

Message removed by moderator. Click here to review the message board rules.

[Pithlet]

105. Oh, no. The two of you are on to us.

Spam Spokesperson OP and you will both reveal the true plan of Liberals everywhere. To see all small businesses fail, and unemploy Americans with minimal skills. Whatever will we do?! Now everyone will know we hate small businesses and underskilled people :scared:

[Kerrytravelers]

110. As if the call centers are even in the US.. Can we say "outsourcing?"

It is usually the first department to be shipped overseas, where a nice young lady, usually 14 or 15 living in a Communist country with a name like "Jane" or "Barbara" takes my call and puts me on hold for hours.

[Swamp Rat]

111. Don't you mean "LIEbrul commie pinkos?"

It's true, we often run around complaining about our right to privacy. My bad. I thought the U.S. Constitution still meant something.

Btw, those "call centers" are being moved off shore to places like Barbados and India by the plutocrats running our government.

[Name removed]

165. Deleted message

Message removed by moderator. Click here to review the message board rules.

[mcscajun]

100. There isn't an argument or a proof out there...

...that this OP is ever going to accept. So why bother?

He's gonna believe what he wants to believe. We know what goes on our mailboxes, and we're going to continue to fight spam while carrying on our other issues.

Continuing to discuss this with the OP is like doing this: :banghead:

[da_chimperor]

104. I realized that a while ago. Chucky seems to be away for the moment. n/t

[mcscajun]

140. Probably off in search of new places to toss 'chum'

But I'm not Saying why. :)

[Dave Reynolds]

142. Yes, surfaced again

in another thread, still a charming fella.

[dhinojosa]

103. So when my small-business computers go down with viruses....

this is good for business?

And when even non-threatening spam requires more server maintenance, and for me to pay extra for anti-spam software, this is somehow good for my legitimate businesses' bottom line?

Are you smoking something?

[OneBlueSky]

106. if you think spam is an effective way for a legitimate small business . .

to advertise, you're delusional . . . I (and I suspect many others) actively AVOID doing business with anyone who sends me unsolicited e-mail, or who uses pop-up ads, or who installs adware on my computer, or who telemarkets me, or who sends me junk snail mail . . . fortunately, I can now block most spam, most pop-ups, and most adware . . . I'm also on the Do Not Call list, so telemarketing has been reduced to almost zero . . . haven't yet stopped junk mail, but that's what waste baskets are for . . .

[SheepyMcSheepster]

107. I am hoping this a joke

and that the author is finding humor in defending spam by spamming a thread with an indefensible position.

oh the hilarity; using repetive, rediculous, unconvincing efforts to defend the use of repetive, rediculous, unconvincing efforts.

[ulysses]

108. how did small business ever survive

before spammers? :silly:

[ChavezSpeakstheTruth]

113. You have got to be fucking kidding me!

[rinsd]

114. Don't associate small business with spammers....

...they;re freaking snake oil salesman promising generic drugs, penis enlargement, fakeroo stock tips and lucrative jobs sending other people spam.


I run a small business and you can run with the big dogs on the internet in a way that doesn't involve mass mailing people unsolictied invitations.

[richargl]

115. just like billboards

spam is like small bill boards.

I hate driving around town and not being able to keep my eyes from being spammed.

Steve @ Orgasm Control . com

[rinsd]

117. A new entrant....hope you guys are being paid well (nt)

[Dave Reynolds]

128. So is this what is meant by a topic

that flushes 'em out?

I've read about it, this is the first time to see it with my own eyes.

[markus]

118. Cooking meth is small b usiness, and I'm against that

Pimps are small business men. I have a problem with that.

Spam is just so f---ing rude, and requires so much deceit to operate, it's simply outside the pale.

[Kerrytravelers]

121. Spam is rude. I like that. It's like a houseguest that has overstayed

their welcome. Every morning you wake up, and they're waiting for you at the breakfast table. You leave a pineapple at the foot of their bed (history buffs know that was the sign for welcome to our home and also thanks for coming now leave in the Antebellum South) and yet, everymorning, there they are, ready for breakfast.

[lostinacause]

119. If you are not able to run a business without spam you oviously

should not run a business. I run a business successfully with out spam and I'm sure many others do here too.

[thinkingwoman]

122. Actually, spam hurts small businesses

Spam does not help small businesses. It actually hurts it.

Small businesses simply do not have the manpower to sort through and delete all the crap that slams into their email inboxes each day. Spam makes it hard to conduct real business.

As for spam being a cheap advertising vehicle for small businesses...that's not true either. Legitimate small businesses wouldn't waste their time and money on an advertising vehicle that alienates customers.

Nobody likes spam. Not individuals, big businesses or small business. It is simply not a legitimate or effective way to conduct business unless your business is porn.

As a small business owner, I have first hand experience with this issue. There are plenty of no or low cost advertising opportunities on the internet that help level the playing field between big and small business. Spam is not one of them.

[Selatius]

127. Spam wouldn't exist in a system built on mutual cooperation

Our system is built on competition with winners and losers. Some have figured a way not to lose is to spam. It's cheap. It's easy. It generates money, and money is needed to survive for our way of life. It may be that they don't need to spam in order to survive. They may be doing it out of the want to generate even greater profits, which is likely the case in many instances. In other words, they do it out of want for more money for money's sake, which is a symptom of our way of life.

[Katarina]

130. When you start paying my internet bill

every month, then you have the right to fill up my email box with your spam. I pay $100 a month. I work, my husband works, I take care of my 4 kids, cook 3 meals a day and keep my house clean. When I get on my computer I don't want to wade through spam to read my personal emails. I shouldn't have to pay for spam blocking software because you think it's your right to send me unsolicited email. It's my personal account. It pisses me off to no end having to delete that crap! I won't read it so why bother? My husband and I run 2 small businesses and we have never had to send out junk mail to get customers. Obviously I am not anti-small business if we have 2 businesses. If someone has to resort to invading personal space then they aren't running their business very well.

[jim3775]

133. Bull fuckin' shit!

99% of spam (hundreds of millions of messages a day) is sent by criminals that steal identities, credit card numbers and bank account numbers. Some spammers are working for organized crime and major bank and credit card fraud and money laundering organizations. Spammers will retaliate or hack/D.O.S. any company that tries to stop them. Spammers steal network resources to send spam and spread viruses to act as "zombies" to attack networks with DDOS attacks. Tell me how all of the spam I report to network administrators and the authorities every day, all of those fake ebay and bank notices, all of those counterfeit Chinese drugs and penis pills all of those “discount mortgage” companies is connected to small business.

Here’s one I got recently, someone was spamming saying how they want to buy my product (I’m not selling any product) and they want me to ship it to a New York City address. I googled the address and found that a bunch of small-time health care distribution companies were taken by this scam with stolen credit card numbers and there is a secret service and interpol investigation ongoing. Yeah, small business.

[Dookus]

135. Thank you for reminding me

that just when I think I've seen the dumbest-ass argument possible, I have underestimated my fellow man.

[geniph]

138. What an odd perspective you have, to be sure

My husband owns a small business. Spam costs him a great deal of time he does not have, wading through his inbox every day trying to find legitimate messages from customers amongst all the offers to increase his sperm volume or view horny housewives with farm animals. He's accidentally deleted actual messages from customers because they were mixed in with the trash, just as if his snail mail box had been filled with baggies of dogshit. In cleaning out the dogshit from his mailbox, he accidentally grabbed the one postcard he really needed and threw it out too.

My husband does not spam the world to advertise his business. This would not be a useful way to promote his services, and would alienate many potential customers. He prefers to use more traditional means, which do not forcibly inflict themselves upon people.

The real question is whether you regard an email inbox as public property or private. If it's public, of course, anyone who wishes to do so can put their baggies of dogshit in it. If it's private, that's a grossly offensive and potentially illegal thing to do.

Oh, and by the way - I'm a network manager, too. We also have to spend a great deal of money that we have much better uses for in blocking spam at our perimeter. We have to continually keep raising our bandwidth with our provider, because the volume of data received daily continues to increase exponentially. While a great majority of this data never reaches our internal network (because it's trash), we still have to have equipment capable of handling this volume. I resent the hell out of the time I and my technicians have to expend on this, the hardware we have to have to deal with it, the software licenses we have to pay for, and the bandwidth that costs taxpayers money (we're a public entity, so all of this is taxpayer money).

[Solly Mack]

141. Conversely, by having a spam filter, do I support big business?

Just asking..

I slay me...

[KamaAina]

143. Nope. Small business could just as easily use banner ads

or pop-ups. They're targeted, for one thing, and besides, DU sells them, so thewy're good for us!

[yvr girl]

145. SPAM is bad marketing

Personalized, directed email to a recipient who has given you permission to contact them is extremely cost effective and a good way to further your business relationship with your customer.

SPAM is annoying, against the law in Canada and not that effective for legit businesses. It doesn't matter how many emails I get offering me a deal on Viagra, I'm never going to buy it - I don't have the right parts.

[Media_Lies_Daily]

146. This from a self-proclaimed 19-yr-old know-it-all. Here's my advice...

...grow-up, take on some major responsibilities, and come back to the board in about 10 years. It'll be interesting to see what you have to say then.

[Hong Kong Cavalier]

147. Tell that to the IT guy where I work.

We're not a large business. I am one of 67 people who work there. But we work in a field where we need a massive amount of bandwith. And our IT has to employ tens of thousands of dollars for spam filters (spam filters for corporate servers are not cheap) to protect our e-mail accounts from the CONSTANT bombardment of spam that simply tries to seek out e-mail accounts. Some of them are even part of a more malicious attempt to get into the system and hack the servers for their own deeds.
Spam hurts the small business more than it helps.

[Tierra_y_Libertad]

149. My heart bleeds for spammers.

The same way it does for telemarketers and televangelists.

[walldude]

152. Not much more can be said..

Except I find it amusing that there are 144 responses to this thread and not one person, not even the lurking freeper (please dude, the bad grammer and lack of caps gave you away long before the bizarre "eye spamming" comment) has come to your defense. Give it up.

[Spider Jerusalem]

154. I'm not anti-small-business, I'm anti-fuckwit.

And if a small business has nothing better to sell me than porn, penile enhancements and Viagra, they deserve to crash and burn anyway.

[question everything]

157. Gee, I don't know

We get health insurance to pay for Viagra, but not for birth control pills. I think that even Medicare pays for Viagra so they may be legitimate business, no?

Of course Viagra is manufactured by Pfizer, one of the biggest benefits from the Bush "drug benefits." Pfizer also retaliates against Canadian pharmacists who sell to American at reduced price, and Pfizer will be the biggest beneficiary if such spam will generate more sales..

(OK, too late for sarcasm...)

[mcscajun]

158. I love it!

"Anti-fuckwit"

I'm gonna use that one, Spider. :)

[oblivious]

156. Spammers are scum.

They're assholes who don't have a hope of running a proper business. They offer no contribution to the community. No support for the post office, couriers, newspapers, magazines, radio, TV, etc. Just steal from enough people that they'll get the attention of one in a thousand. If they can't even afford a stamp for a letter, what hope do they have of getting their business off the ground.

Leeches. Thieves. Scum.

[CabalPowered]

160. If the unsubscribe link works then there's no problem... n/t

[bitchkitty]

170. If the mail is unsolicited, 9 times out of 10

all the unsubscribe link does is confirm the email address for the spam weenie.

[entanglement]

162. Give me your email ID

and I'll subscribe you to one of these struggling 'small businesses' run by a 'little person' somewhere in Bosnia. You'll probably drastically alter your views in a week or so.

[Orsino]

163. Your argument fails on two points.

1. If spam were legitimate advertising instead of calculated time-wasting, spammers wouldn't have to hide their identity. They know they're a nuisance, but they disregard the feelings of the 998 out of a thousand victims who never read the spam.

2. Whoever spends the most money generates the most spam. This is no different from Madison Avenue's model--just cheaper. Until you penetrate spam's wall of secrecy, I see no reason to believe in the warm 'n' fuzzy image of your small businessman. I've never seen anything convincingly portrayed in spam as a legitimate product.

[bitchkitty]

166. I'm stunned by this attitude.

Are you a spammer?

I have an online business that took a long time to build up. I still periodically get complaints because some fucking asshole who doesn't have the intelligence or the ambition to build up his business in an ETHICAL manner forges my domain in his outgoing spam.

Thank God for Spam Assassin, which is installed on my server. But I still have to spend a couple of hours a week going through the spam folder to make sure it doesn't catch anything legitimate.

I would never buy a thing from a company that thinks it's okay to barge their way into someone's mailbox, uninvited.

Spammers should have their genitals surgically excised and hung around their neck.

[Dorian Gray]

167. That may be true,

but all the spam I get is for prescription drugs and porn sites, and they aren't exactly small businesses that I wish to support.

[rman]

173. Spammer Sentenced to Nine Years in Jail

<snip>

Jaynes was rated the world's eighth-most prolific spammer by the Register of Known Spam Operations, Kilgore says.
http://www.spamhaus.org/rokso/

DeGroot was convicted after prosecutors proved she had used her credit card to purchase domain names for the purpose of sending spam. Jaynes surrendered to authorities in Raleigh, North Carolina, last December. DeGroot turned herself in to authorities in April.

Thousands of Messages Sent

According to the indictment, the spam was sent in 2003 between July 11 and August 9. And spam sent on July 16, 19, and 26 of that year exceeded 10,000 messages during each 24-hour period, according to the statement. Kilgore says those numbers don't reflect the total number of messages sent, because they were based solely on actual complaints made by customers to their Internet service providers.

The indictment also alleged that the sender falsified transmission or routing information to prevent recipients from knowing who had sent the messages and how to contact the sender.

This falsified information is what makes such spam a crime in Virginia, and the volume of e-mails sent during the period is what elevated the charge to a felony, according to the statement.

http://www.pcworld.com/news/article/0,aid,118493,00.asp

[LdyGuique]

174. Sorry, if your argument were a bucket -- it's missing its bottom and

won't hold water.

I worked for a major national ISP in tech support for over 5-1/2 years. I watched spam grow from 1 or 2 random emails a day in 1996 to literally hundreds per day during that time. During the past 3 years, a profound change happened with spam and 95% of it doesn't come from legitimate businesses. If one tracks down the websites in the links, half of them don't exist. Of the other half, fraud is a component where stealing identity information is more critical to their purpose, especially the loans and drug sales.

True, I get a certain amount of legitimate spam -- i.e., I've bought products from a particular company and get their advertising, regardless of whether or n ot I signed up for it.

Website ranking and the various search engine paid-for advertsing plays a far larger role in small businesses achieving their audience, as well as local businesses who also have a yellow page presence.

Spam is NOT pro-small business.

[DistressedAmerican]

175. Fuck Them Either Way. Stop Stealing My Time With Spam!

[mac56]

176. If you're against crack houses you're anti-small business too, I guess

nm

[mattclearing]

182. The OP is simply wrong.

Spam is meaningless harassment.

I never see spam advocating that I try out a coffee shop or buy a t-shirt.

It's always for re-financing or porn or stock tips or dating services or pharmaceutical drugs...small business indeed.

And it's always intentionally misspelled in order to better reach the intended recipient.

It's not legitimate marketing.

A lot of spam is so contrived and contorted to beat email filters that it fails at its most basic level as an advertisement.

I don't even believe that people enlist spammers to help sell products anymore.

I am more likely to believe it is a ploy by hackers to waste corporate resources on the "Spam problem."

Spam is not proper marketing.

If people knocked on your front door twenty, thirty, times a day or more to pitch something to you, you'd call the police.