Pie-throwing controversy

[Domitan]

I've thought on this for a few days. When I saw the likes of Kristol, Klein (Albertan premier), and Bill Gates getting pied, I thought it was hilarious. Inconvenient for them, but still tickled my funny bones. Hell, I would have found it funny if a College Republican pied Hillary Clinton. I've come across a number of diehard Liberals who have really come down hard on this piethrowing phenomenon as childish, not of any substance of what we stand for or want to say, and warranting assault charges. This just got me thinking: yeah, it's funny on the surface...but is it really good for our cause? I can see it being counterproductive, especially as the piethrowing rate escalates in frequency and into other aggressive actions.

[Dookus]

1. ask yourself

if somebody did this to my mother, would I be OK with it?

[Domitan]

3. Honestly

it would depend on context. If it's done at a b-day party or done out of friendly comraderie fun, sure! If it's at a more serious setting like at a speech or a more somber function, I'd find that very inappropriate. Well, if it's done by a street performer, I admit I'd chuckle. But that's the weird Canuck humour in me (pls see Just for Laughs: Gags show).

[doodadem]

4. My mother

is a Democrat, Sir!
(No pies necessary)

[Dookus]

6. So you believe

that only Republicans can or should get pied? That doing it to a Republican is all right, but doing it a Democrat is wrong?

I don't see it that way.

[Domitan]

19. self-delete

tsk!

[rodeodance]

5. nobody would have any reason to do it to my mom

[Dookus]

7. but

you don't get to decide what a good reason is. The pie-er does.

[bloom]

8. If my mother were Ann Coulter (Yikes!!!) - then yeah....eom

[napkinz]

11. Coulter Freaks Out

[Melynn]

18. Maybe he is trying to force feed Coulter

She's pretty skinny you know.

[Warpy]

12. It would depend on whether or not she liked the flavor of pie

and what she had done to provoke it.

There were times when she pulled her Dowager Duchess act that a pie in the face would have been just what she needed. Alas, she dwelt in obscurity, so no flying pies were ever a possibility.

C'mon, folks, it's a PIE.

[Dookus]

13. heheh

believe me, I've had the desire to do it to MY mom on occasion.

But I don't think it's as harmless as people think it is. If a total stranger ran up to you and hurled something into your face, I would imagine you'd be pretty shaken up.

Plus, if he'd hit Coulter, he coulda snapped her in half. Not that that wouldn't be fun to see, but it could do some damage.

[Salviati]

14. If my mother was trying to undermine America by shredding the constitution

then pies away!

[Dookus]

15. But these people being pied

are just pundits. They express ideas.

Of course we abhor those ideas, but is the solution to ideas you don't like to throw pies in their face? If we take that right onto our selves, we have to give it to Republicans too - we have to allow THEM to pie people whose ideas they disagree with.

[Bouncy Ball]

53. Wait, so would you be ok with bush getting a pie in the face?

He's not just a pundit.

[Al-CIAda]

69. If you thin William Kristol is 'just a pundit', you are incredibly

uninformed.

In fact, he may be the REAL administration.

[mondo joe]

24. If my mother was Ann Coulter I'd pie the bitch myself.

And it would be a hot pie at that.

[leesa]

27. Well, DUH! It's a protest....why would you do it to your Mom, unless

she's a jackbooted fascist

[Dookus]

33. Who gets to decide

who is worthy of being pied? You? I'm not comfortable with that.

[cestpaspossible]

34. If my mother were a well known pundit, yes

[Dookus]

35. So it's

OK to do it to pundits because you don't like their ideas.

So it's OK to assault people you disagree with.

This could get ugly, you know.

[knight_of_the_star]

45. This is not assaulting

It's a VERY graphic form of making a statement. There is a difference between using time-honoured slapstick humour to make a point and just beating the tar out of someone.

[Dookus]

49. of course it's an assault

Imagine being up on a stage, speaking. A stranger comes out of nowhere, running at you , and flings something at you. You don't know who he is, what he's got in his hand, what you've been hit with, or generally what the fuck is going on.

It's not slapstick.

[Dookus]

36. So it's

OK to do it to pundits because you don't like their ideas.

So it's OK to assault people you disagree with.

This could get ugly, you know.

[Dookus]

37. So it's

OK to do it to pundits because you don't like their ideas.

So it's OK to assault people you disagree with.

This could get ugly, you know.

[cestpaspossible]

42. No, I said no such thing.

It's ok to do any pundit whether I agree with them or not.

Please don't put words in my mouth.

[Dookus]

50. ok

Any pundit.

How often can you do it to them? Daily? Should they be assaulted every time they leave their house?

How do you decide how hard to throw the pie and when it constitutes slapstick vs. assault? If your pundit mother falls down, is it assault? If she slips while trying to flee, is that assault?

It's bullshit. You would NOT want this done to your mother, and you know it.

[cestpaspossible]

55. Funny

You would NOT want this done to your mother, and you know it.

Yeah, I already said I'd be ok with it if she were a famous pundit. Guess what? She's not.

How do you decide how hard to throw the pie and when it constitutes slapstick vs. assault? If your pundit mother falls down, is it assault? If she slips while trying to flee, is that assault?

It's always assault, and I already said people should be prosecuted for doing it. Why pretend I said anything else?

[Dookus]

56. well then

I guess we don't disagree on anything. It's always assault and should always be prosecuted. Cool.

[cestpaspossible]

59. I doubt any jury would convict though,

but at least they might get a good laugh out of it.

[Dookus]

62. You should try it and find out

go pie some strangers and see what happens.

[cestpaspossible]

66. So you think it's wrong, yet you encourage me to do it.

Interesting. There's a word for that, you know.

[Domitan]

63. Wrong! Someone got jailed for throwing a pie

http://www.cbc.ca/story/canada/national/2005/02/17/klein-pie-050217.html

[cestpaspossible]

67. I wonder if Geoghegan regrets his action.

I doubt it.

[Al-CIAda]

44. If my mother led us into war over lies and through treason, I'd 'pie' her

myself!

'mom, meet pie!"

[Dookus]

51. And who gets to decide who did what?

Ann Coulter didn't lead us into war anymore than I did. People express ideas and they should be free to do so without fear of being assaulted.

It's childish and unproductive.

[Bouncy Ball]

54. I'm ok with Democrats doing it.

Why? republicans would never be clever enough to do it. They could be reading all about this right now and still not be clever enough to think "oh I could do that!" and then actually do it.

I'm willing to take that chance.

And I wrote this partially sarcastically.

[Al-CIAda]

68. If my mother were guilty of treason and mass murder...

I'd friggin pie her myself!

Throw the whole damned bakery at these sociopaths.

[slackmaster]

2. Not sure it's worthy of being charged, but technically it is assault

If someone threw a pie at me and broke my glasses or ruined or soiled expensive clothing I would demand reimbursement for all costs. If I was injured I'd pursue criminal charges.

[Yupster]

17. So far, I'm the only one

who's said it's worthy of an assault charge.

To explain my position.

If it is done to a person trying to exercize his/her right to free political speech, I call that an assault on our Constitutional guarantees, and I would charge the person to the extent that I could, and then I would sue them civilly too. The point is to show thugs that they cannot stop people from expressing viewpoints they disagree with by physical means.

If it's someone eating dinnner in a restaurant or walking to get their morning paper, I would treat it much less seriously.

[KoKo]

23. But, throwing pies at the very people who deny our right to free speech

is justified. The RWingers have cut off our free speech. The corporatists control our airwaves. American Citizens are denied the right to attend Town Hall Meetings with their President. Our vote has been tampered with and we've been reviled and ridiculed by the Coulters, Horowitz's and the rest.

When one has no voice one resorts to make oneself heard any way one can and a pie or salad dressing is better than other alternatives. :shrug:

I have no problem with it. Our freedoms of political expression have been taken away by these folks.

[slackmaster]

25. That's just your opinion

The RWingers have cut off our free speech. The corporatists control our airwaves. American Citizens are denied the right to attend Town Hall Meetings with their President. Our vote has been tampered with and we've been reviled and ridiculed by the Coulters, Horowitz's and the rest.

Maybe so, but that doesn't justify assaulting someone who expresses a different POV.

When one has no voice...

Quitcherbitchin' already. You HAVE a voice.

[T Town Jake]

28. "I have no problem with it"...

Who says A must say B. A = hurling pies to disrupt and shut someone up. B = the next step, when pies no longer work to the extent the one advocating hurling them thinks they should. And therein lies the path to some pretty ugly stuff.

Your post quite nearly reads like something one would expect to see over at...never mind.

[Yupster]

29. Pat Buchanon hasn't cut

off anyone's right to speech. I think he loves a good political argument more than almost anyone.

[barb162]

39. He sure does and he's very articulate at arguing and making

his point.

[Al-CIAda]

71. I agree here with both of you on that point.

Pat shouldn't have gotten the dressing IMO...but the 'insurgent' didn't cite 'lack of free speech'. He said 'stop the bigotry'.

Not that it makes a difference in whether he was justified, but if you are going to criticize him, it must speak to his motive -not yours.

[NV Whino]

9. I think it is a relatively harmless way of protesting

and letting off steam. You build up a lot of steam and keep it bottled up, you have a disaster on your hands. You release a little steam every now and again, you might get a little wet, but nothing explodes.

One might think about Bush bottling up protests in his "free speech zones." If all that "steam" hadn't been bottled up, maybe there wouldn't be pie throwing now.

[donheld]

10. It's a sad waste of

:cry: :cry:

[Straight Shooter]

16. I have a problem with it.

I don't know if I'd go so far as to call it childish and counterproductive, but it's certainly not the best way to change people's opinions or express frustration.

I would really really be angry if someone threw a pie at Howard Dean or Ted Kennedy or John Kerry, or any Democratic icon, as a form of protest. I guess it's the "do unto others" aspect of this that bothers me.

[Yupster]

30. Or how's about

Senator Byrd, or Bill Moyers, or Helen Thomas?

I bet that wouldn't be treated so jovially.

[Domitan]

20. For those of you thinking it's a legitimate form of protest

what are you saying exactly? What message are you putting across? Pause, think, and think more on what this really means. I know many here are angered and frustrated, but surely we can express our strong thoughts in more powerful and productive ways that don't undermine us at the onset.

[cestpaspossible]

43. It's a reminder that the pied pundit is a mere human.

The message is, "you, too, no matter how important you and everyone else thinks you are, can look ridiculous and silly".

As a partisan or issue-orientated protest it is not appropriate or effective.

I have no objection to piethrowers being charged under relevant statutes -- they should bear the responsibility for their illegal acts. However, it is not, imho, an immoral act, and I won't condemn them.

[Greenbeard]

21. It is extremely funny and makes me smile, but..........

If this is the best we can do then we have already lost the battle. It takes words to win this one and by throwing pies we are giving them a huge advantage.

I wish this wasn't true (but I think we all know that it is) beacause they all really do deserve this and much more.

We must call them out but I am afraid a pie just doesn't cut it.

[Tactical Progressive]

22. You know, it was kind of smirky-funny the first few times

but now it's not creative or even interesting, just dullards looking to emulate someone else's protest strike for their own notoriety. And with the sleazy salad dressing attack on Pat Buchanan, they've stepped over the line from classic pie-face comedy to just offensive.

Enough. The novelty is gone. It's played.

[Ladyhawk]

26. I think it makes the pie-thrower look childish.

Plus, when I was in college, there was a huge food fight in the cafeteria. Two Ethiopian students were outraged, as you can imagine. They saw food much differently than did Americans and it has stuck in my mind ever since. :shrug:

What's my point? I'm not sure. It just seems wrong to waste food in this manner.

[deadcenter]

31. technically actionable...

but pretty darn funny. Seeing Ann Coulter run had me rolling. I think the folks who get pied come off best when they down play the whole thing like Kristol's "let me finish this point" or David Niven when the streaker crossed the stage at the Oscars, "what a dreadful way to show off one's shortcomings".

[newyawker99]

41. Hi deadcenter!!

Welcome to DU!! :toast:

[Swamp Rat]

32. Reading this thead makes me want to throw pies at fascists.

:D



SWEEEET!!!

[barb162]

38. what if the pugs start throwing pies at Howard Dean and

John Edwards and other Democrats? We'd be all over them. Still, Ann Coulter and those people, they just about ask for it. But even having written that just now, I think we have to let them speak. People came to listen, whether what they will listen to is garbage. Pie-throwing is really worse than totally ignorant when you really think about it...it's meant to humiliate the person and not let them talk.

[Domitan]

46. Indeed, it's not our place to stop others from talking

We need to counteract their words intelligently and effectively.

[TaleWgnDg]

40. Actually, legally speaking it IS assault and battery . . . or worse. n/t

[Toucano]

47. It's assault.

Stop it already!

[chieftain]

48. It's criminal , stupid and ineffectual .

[Jack_DeLeon]

52. Pie throwers = assholes...

I have no respect for people who physically assault someone else solely because they of thier opinion.

I would have no problem with anyone attacking a pie thrower in self defense.

[paineinthearse]

57. Don't forget Buchannan's salad "dressing" nt

[Selatius]

58. The Golden Rule: Treat others as you would like to be treated

No, I wouldn't toss pies at anyone because I don't want a pie in my own face if I can help it. It's the same logic why I favor punishing monsters with life in prison as opposed to the death penalty.

[Blue Moon]

60. Rather than throw pies...

I would rather "throw" the issues back at their face. Any asshole who has to resort to temper tantrums, breaking the law and physical assualt certainly does not represent me as a Democrat. And supposedly we're supposed to be the intellectually superior party. This is a good way of showing it, huh? Yeah right.

[The Gigmeister]

61. It's funny...It's assault...It's counterproductive...And we'll get it too.

The answer is real simple...

When it happens to them = Funny.

When it happens to us = Assault.


And the pukes would say the same thing. We're all hypocrites.

[timtom]

64. I voted "Assault"

Having said that, however, I'm afraid that...if any of the * cabal were to get pied...I'm terribly afraid that I'd enjoy it immensely. Quite a paradox, no?

(Edited to correct a misspelled word.)

[Domitan]

65. It's understandable

But we'd be in trouble if we did everything that would amuse us or make us feel good.

[Tierra_y_Libertad]

70. The "Banana Cream Revolution".

It's SCARY!! Fascists getting decorated with cream pies and salad dressing! Vicious liberals annointing "patriots" with foodstuffs! They're Bolsheviks! Anarchists! Lock your doors! Barricade your houses! It's a REVOLUTION!!

Some people here need to lay in a store of smelling salts for when they faint at the temerity of....pie throwers?

[Al-CIAda]

72. Yes! Next thing you know, bakeries will be put on terrorist watch lists.

Flour will become a controlled substance, and forget about aquiring whipped cream!

lol