Vatican Slaps Victims Of Pedophile Priests In Face:Cardinal Law Speaking

[KittyWampus]

I was very happy to focus on the Pope's positive achievements after his death and to honor his faith and that of his followers.

Unfortunately, the Vatican has just gone a step too far.

They are essentially slapping all those abused by priests by allowing Cardinal Law a role of honor.

IMHO, American Catholics need to muster their numbers together and secede from Rome.

Rome does NOT give a crap about you anymore than Junior and the Noe-Cons care about the American population.

Former Boston archbishop given role of honor in mourning for pope


http://www.boston.com/news/local/massachusetts/articles... /

Cardinal Bernard Law, who resigned in disgrace as archbishop of Boston over his role in the clergy sex abuse crisis, has been given a role of honor in the mourning for Pope John Paul II.

The Vatican announced Thursday he will lead one of the daily Masses celebrated in the pope's memory during the nine-day period that follows the funeral, called Novemdiales. The service will be held Monday at St. Mary Major Basilica, where Law was appointed archpriest after leaving Boston.

Some Catholics in his former archdiocese immediately protested.

Suzanne Morse, spokeswoman for Voice of the Faithful, a Newton, Mass.-based reform group that emerged from the abuse scandal, said Law's visibility since the pope's death has been "extremely painful" both for abuse survivors and rank-and-file Catholics.

[pelagius]

1. This sends a very wrong message...

...at a time when more eyes are on the Roman Catholic Church than have been perhaps in a generation.

Who's doing their PR for them, anyway? Dumb mistake.

[KittyWampus]

3. I Suggest American Catholics Find A Way To Let Rome Know

How they can make their voice heard, I have no idea.

Maybe the Vatican really is just like the Neo-Con Fascists here in the US... they just don't give a crap.

"Pedophile priests? What pedophile priests"

[Walt Starr]

6. Withold all tithes for the next six months

Hit them in the pocketbook and they might take notice.

[Kerrytravelers]

52. A brilliant idea.

I will be spreading this idea everywhere. Thank you. You may be the start of a revolution.

[hue]

41. Don't know if some withheld info from the Pope, but Rome knows

There have been instances where the same thing has happened in Europe, Africa, L America, Phillipines etc. The Good 'ol Boys know!

http://www.sandiegosnap.org/BishopList.html

Here is a list of bishops--this is just the well known cases (overt).

[MichiganVote]

47. Go to www.bishopaccountability.org

The Pope always knew.

[SharonAnn]

49. Apparently it's the message they want to send.

And I agree, it's a appalling message. I could hardly believe it when I heard they were having him speak.

He should be in a monastery somewhere doing contemplative meditation on his failures to protect children.

[pelagius]

2. This sends a very wrong message...

...at a time when more eyes are on the Roman Catholic Church than have been perhaps in a generation.

Who's doing their PR for them, anyway? Dumb mistake.

[Kerrytravelers]

4. Oh Jesus, Mary and Joseph.

I am so offended by this. As a Catholic, I can only defend the chruch so much. I was shcoked when they moved this boob to the Vatican, but to now have him speaking at the Pope's funeral is just too much.

I know someone who had dinner with Law after the scandle had broke. She said "He is such a nice man. It's hard to believe all this stuff about him." She's a school teacher (Kindergarten), can you believe it. The peds always "seem" nice, but guess what- THEY AREN'T!

[Walt Starr]

5. Gloves are off now

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[Dookus]

7. That's horrendous

but exemplifies what I've always felt - the church simply doesn't "get it" about this scandal.

[MichiganVote]

11. They "get it" just fine. They just don't give a damn what you think

and so long as they define morality for Catholics and Catholics accept it, they don't have to.

[Dookus]

14. well I have to believe

they don't want to INTENTIONALLY offend people, especially the faithful, with their actions.

The charitable explanation is that they simply underestimate how meaningful this scandal is to many Americans.

[MichiganVote]

17. They intentionally hid hideous criminal behavior on the part of priests

FROM the faithful. Meaning, thousands of kids whose parents did not know they were in jeopardy found out different, usually after their kids were messed up or dead. That's about as "charitable" as George Bush and his 'unintentional'mistatements about WMD. If you "have to believe" that the RCC hierarchy are innocent then there is no point continueing the discussion.

[Dookus]

22. Where the hell did I say anybody was innocent?

Nowhere. Believe me, if you look around, you'll find I'm no friend of the Catholic church.

I'm talking about THIS particular issue of Law being allowed to speak at the Pope's funeral. I don't believe it was done intentionally to cause distress for American catholics - I believe it was done out of pure stupidity and their failure to really understand their role in this scandal, and how it's perceived here.

[KittyWampus]

23. Hopefully It'll Do To Vatican What Schiavo Did To The Christo-Freaks

[MichiganVote]

26. As I read your post it appeared to imply innocence but let's substitute

Let's say that these Bishops and Cardinals with knowledge and skills in several languages, these men with multiple higher educational degrees, worldy, scholarly and spiritual CEO's of some of the largest catholic domain on the planet have just been--ummm...thoughtless (???) about appointing Cardinal Law to a plum assignment in Rome and prayer group leader before millions in the world during the Pope's funeral? Yeah, I'm sure it was just an Oop's kind of moment. Really an oversight, a harmless mistake, something of an afterthought.

Spin 1 = Well, we preach forgiveness
Spin 2 = The Pope entrusted Cardinal Law to walk in Christ as a man who has sinned and repented
Spin 3 = The faithful requested Cardinal Law's attendance
Spin 4 = Cardinal Law epitomizes the charity and love of Christ by Pope John Paul
Spin 5 = It's really only the Americans who have a problem with Cardinal Law, Italians understand these things so much better
Spin 6 = Poor victims, they really should get over it and forgive Cardinal Law, shame on them

[Dookus]

27. I've made it clear

I don't believe it's being done intentionally to hurt Americans, American Catholics in particular.

That's not to excuse how stupid it is to do this. I just think it's done out of stupidity and arrogance and a failure to truly understand the implications of the sexual abuse scandals.

[MichiganVote]

30. Where we differ Dookus, is that I know very well and from both

personal and professional experience that the Romans Catholic hierarchy do not do anything out of stupidity. They choose their actions and they do not give a rat's ass what Americans, churchgoers, victims or President's think. They only care that their choices result in an outcome they want.

Do they intend to hurt Americans? They don't care who they hurt but no, they (being Law and his buddies)have other objectives. Chief among them is what this represents to American churchgoers and church groups that endorse "liberal" change; notice of a challenge.
Cardinal Law is a cockroach, a political survivor. Not even he can survive alone, however.

These are not stupid men. They know exactly what they are doing and why. As far as the sex abuse scandal, they don't care today anymore than they ever have.

Peace...

[KittyWampus]

31. Addendum, There Was A Pedophile Priest Scandal In Ireland Too

it isn't just America.

Somehow, I imagine this has happened in Italy as well... but the Vatican has more control on keeping things under wraps there.

[MichiganVote]

32. Yup.

[JDPriestly]

54. I think there was one in Austria also.

By embracing Cardinal Law, the leaders are saying that the Catholic church is a safe place for pedophiles. No wonder they don't want women to fill positions of genuine authority among them. I'm all for forgiveness, but this is worse than a dumb mistake. It suggests that the Catholic church endorses Cardinal Law's conduct.

[Leilani]

24. I agree Dookus

I think they just don't understand how important this issue is to Americans.

If we can agree that these people are looking for good PR, then this screw up is totally unexplainable, which leads me to the fact that they are clueless.

Let's face it, a bunch of old men mostly sequestered from the real world, & they are clueless.

Also, the Catholic Church has always thought of American Catholics as whiners, because they don't drink the koolaid.

The Church does best in 3rd world environments where people are not educated or sophisticated enough to question.

[MichiganVote]

35. They are not stupid

Sex Crimes Cover-Up By Vatican?

LOS ANGELES, Aug. 6, 2003
Vatican Bombshell
SECRET VATICAN DOCUMENT

CBS News Correspondent Vince Gonzales has uncovered a church document kept secret for 40 years.

The confidential Vatican document, obtained by CBS News, lays out a church policy that calls for absolute secrecy when it comes to sexual abuse by priests - anyone who speaks out could be thrown out of the church.

The policy was written in 1962 by Cardinal Alfredo Ottaviani.

The document, once "stored in the secret archives" of the Vatican, focuses on crimes initiated as part of the confessional relationship and what it calls the "worst crime": sexual assault committed by a priest" ....Bishops are instructed to pursue these cases "in the most secretive way...restrained by a perpetual silence...and everyone {including the alleged victim) ...is to observe the strictest secret, which is commonly regarded as a secret of the Holy Office...under the penalty of excommunication."

Larry Drivon, a lawyer who represents alleged victims, said, “This document is significant because it's a blueprint for deception.”

Drivon said this proves ... that the church engaged in a crime – racketeering.

According to church records, the document was a bedrock of Catholic sex abuse policy until America's bishops met last summer and drafted new policies to address the crisis in the church.

http://www.cbsnews.com/stories/2003/08/06/eveningnews/main566978.shtml

[JVS]

36. WOW!

[Leilani]

46. I agree that the official policy of the church was to cover up

I was just saying, I don't think they have a clue as to how Americans feel about this issue.

If they did, they would have defrocked all the pedophiles.

[MichiganVote]

48. Actually they always knew and they did not care

The church has had a long history of taking the power of the church back from the layity and never more so than with this pope. They do not defrock all the sexually abusive priests as that necessitates a canon law trial, very long, very laborious and the press would eat them alive. So they created a plan that removed from ministry all those convicted or found to have had creditable reports of abuse. About 4500 priests. Some Diocese refused or hid the fact that they had not removed priests. It remains to be seen whether they will continue this plan.

[Leilani]

50. Aaron Brown on CNN Newsnight just did a good story

on this very issue.

They interviewed a victim & his attorney in Boston, where Law protected the perpetrator...they're both bitter, as they should be.

Also did a good story about Italians ignoring Church rules...most people think because the Vatican is in Italy that it's a very Catholic country, but it's not. And I've found this to be quite true.

[MichiganVote]

51. The Dallas news did a great expose on priests sent out of the country

Very telling. The fact that Law too was released to Italy doesn't speak well for our gutless criminal justice system. I know we all become concerned about the fundemental right, but the RCC has easily managed to get away with a hell of a lot more scott free.

[sharman]

55. The question is

Why isn't this an important issue for them? That's what stinks. Especially coming from an institution that lectures the world about sexual morality

[GumboYaYa]

8. That is just sick....

Out of respect for true beleivers, I have refrained from criticizing the grotesque display of the Pope's corpse, the excessive news coverage of this event, and the fawning hypocrites racing to have some of the Pope's piety rub-off on their sinful asses.

No more, if the Catholic church is so misguided to let that enabler speak, it deserves all the abuse it is getting on here.

[SnowGoose]

9. US catholics don't even need to "secede from Rome"

all they need to do is stop putting money in the collection plate for a month or two. Any money.

I think it would be just as effective, and seems far more plausible (in terms of likelihood).

[Tux]

13. Permanently

Just go but never give any money till the new Pope clears this up. If a priest bitches, tell him to remove all pedophile priests. Till then, use that money to pay off the mortage, house down payment, or save for college.

[kweerwolf]

34. Instead of not giving anything

how about putting a little note in the collection plate explaining why you are withholding your donation. That way it makes it abundantly clear why the collection plate is suddenly lighter.

[MichiganVote]

10. Catholics one and all- hear ye'! , hear ye'!

The victims have been trying and trying to tell you the true depth of deceit that the church has shown them and you for decades. The Catholic church does not play nice when it comes to their own culpability, never have, never will.

Anyone surprised by the Law honor hasn't been paying attention. You might not like it but every victim who has stood up to the church and been slapped down is now looking at you humming Dylan, "How does it feeel..."

Just keep giving your money to them though, they'll love ya'

[hue]

42. You are SO TRUE! n/t

[sundancekid]

12. gives the Peter Principle (kicking imcompetents upstairs) a whole new and

sick meaning -- hopefully, there just might be enough time to organize a "silent" protest in front of the church where LAWLESS will say Mass -- he was not only kicked upstairs to the vatican, but he was given a parish in Rome -- Basilica of Santa Maria Maggiore, I believe.

[Dookus]

15. Yes

the most beautiful church in Rome, aside from St. Peter's. it's a travesty.

[JDPriestly]

56. Second your remark!

Most beautiful church in Rome - - a truly inspiring place. What a travesty. How sad. This is a statement about just how deeply the scandal of pedophilia is embedded in the priesthood.

[KittyWampus]

16. I'd No Idea He Was Given A Parish. I Thought He Was Just Given

'asylum' in Rome so he wouldn't be arrested in the US and charged with conspiracy etc.

[Dookus]

18. Here's his "church" (it's actually a basilica)

And here's a really neat interactive model of the basilica:

http://www.panoramas.dk/fullscreen/fullscreen46.html

[JVS]

19. Hey I remember that place from intro to medieval Art!

[hue]

43. Yes that too n/t

[in_cog_ni_to]

20. OMG....I'm speechless. Just speechless.

:cry: How could they?

[hue]

44. Hope peeps wake up & hear the birdies, they do it all the time! nt

[NashVegas]

21. They Should Send a REAL Message and Elect Him Pontiff

Seriously.

This institution lost all power to piss me off. I really don't care what they do.

[Kathy in Cambridge]

25. This is horrifying

I'm speechless...this man perpetrated a great evil by covering up hundreds of cases of sexual abuse. Boston area Catholics are reeling from this, and the dozens of Church closings to pay for the lawsuits. :grr:

There is a serious crisis of faith here in Boston that's not being addressed by the Church hierarchy.

[Blue Diadem]

28. I had no idea, I thought when he resigned that he was done,

not that he received a promotion. Disgusting..

My heart goes out to all those abused.

[lovuian]

29. This really reveals alot about JOHN Paul and Rome!!!

They never will accept the wrongdoing that was done!!!

[Leilani]

53. Please substitute Vatican for Rome

The Vatican is an independent state...& Italians aren't the most pious bunch, so don't blame them.

[Johonny]

33. You know

not very good people are allowed to be friends of very good people. If Law was close to the Pope then he should be allowed to talk at his funeral. The funeral is a celibration of John Paul the man. Far as I can tell he was a lot closer to Law than he was to must of the fake mourners hanging out for photoopts.

[MichiganVote]

37. Sure. And while we're at it, let's invite Charley Manson too

Been decades since Charley committed any serious sins and at least he's a bono fide crazy. Not like the rest of these clowns who have known kids were getting raped in the ass, smiled at the cameras and bestowed their blessings to the parents who were left in the dark.

[Johonny]

39. Well

this is a pointless take. Look Law and John Paul II had a real life relationship. John Paul II took Law into the vatican at a time when he could of cut him off as dead weight to the church. I believe that shows a sign of real human relationship between the men. Manson as far as I know had zero relationship to John Paul and thus your point isn't counter to anything I said. It's spurious. It's not even a good try.

If a person died and their only son (who spent time in prison) wanted to talk at their funeral would we tell him "No, only good people are allowed to talk".

[MichiganVote]

45. And now for something completely serious/ I suggest you read it all

http://www.bostonmagazine.com/ArticleDisplay.php?id=195

January 2003

The Barbarians were at the gates.Cardinals and archbishops were being threatened with subpoenas if they didn't tell everything they knew, and indictments if they did. It was the greatest crisis in the history of American Catholicism, one that was already being compared to the Protestant Reformation and the French Revolution. And one man was considered responsible for it all: Cardinal Bernard Law.

"They still can't believe it," one Vatican monsignor confided months afterward. John Paul was about to celebrate his 82nd birthday, and he wasn't happy about this shadow hanging over the otherwise golden sunset of his papacy. He knew the church was in trouble, and he knew Cardinal Law was the cause of it.

Finally, John Paul called the U.S. cardinals to Rome for a 48-hour sit-down. The media figured the subtext had to be the survival of Bernard Law. It was like "Watergate without the Nixon resignation," as the Catholic journalist Tom Fox put it.

Only after new revelations surfaced last month (Dec. 2002) — that Law had protected a priest who was allegedly trading sex for cocaine, and another who convinced teenagers studying to become nuns to engage in sex acts by describing himself as "the second coming of Christ" — would Cardinal Law finally resign his post as archbishop of Boston.

How did Law escape the firing line for so long when even priests in his own charge were calling desperately for his resignation? Deep inside the Vatican, there had to be a reason. And, indeed, there was.

The favorite story to emerge after the April meeting was that Law and the Pope were friends. The reality was completely different.

[Bunny]

61. It's a game they can't win, at least not in America.

Perhaps the church will be happy to sacrifice America, if it keeps the legions growing in Latin America, Africa, and Asia.

No matter, they will reap what they have sown.

[KittyWampus]

62. One Would Think That As LA Grows Economically, The Church Would

do less well, as the populace there becomes more educated and less willingly to go along with authoritarianism.

But then, this goes along with WHY the Vatican seems cozy with Fascism.

[Walt Starr]

57. LAw is a criminal who should be in a U.S. prison!

The Pope took him in to avoid the nastiness that his trial would cause the Church!

It was a despicable act!

[Name removed]

38. Deleted message

Message removed by moderator. Click here to review the message board rules.

[MichiganVote]

40. LOL!! Too funny

[Gin]

58. withhold all funds...the church is nothing but big business...

money, or lack of it...gets their attention

[KittyWampus]

59. Since, Like The Neo-Cons, The Vatican Cares Primarily About Money

and Power, this does seem to be the thing to do.

[unhappycamper]

60. the only thing they listen to is $$$$$

kweerwolf had an excellent idea - instead of nothing in the collection plate, leave a note telling them why there is nothing in the collection plate.

[RiDuvessa]

63. Pretty disgusting.

And illustrates how out of touch the bureaucracy in Rome is when dealing with its faults.