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Tax Refunds to the rich came from SS surplus collected from the Middle

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cidliz2004 Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Thu Apr-07-05 03:48 PM
Original message
Tax Refunds to the rich came from SS surplus collected from the Middle
Class.

I wish that I could figure out a way to simplify this. I think that if we could simplify it, it would be a powerful statement against the Rethugs.

We have been collecting a surplus from the SS for years now. Bush got into office and he gave the "excess taxes collected" back to the tax payers. The thing is though, the taxpayers that got back the majority of the tax break were the wealthy, and the SS surplus was paid equally by the middle class and the rich. So, Bush redistributed the SS tax surplus and disproportionately gave it to the wealthy. Right? Kind of like robbing from the middle class to give to the rich.
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shoelace414 Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Thu Apr-07-05 03:49 PM
Response to Original message
1. There has been no tax cut
there only has been a tax shift.
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two gun sid Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Thu Apr-07-05 03:55 PM
Response to Reply #1
6. That is the truest thing I have heard yet...
about the Bush tax cut. Taxes are never cut only shifted.
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Zuni Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Thu Apr-07-05 03:49 PM
Response to Original message
2. That is the rub
that is exactly right. Using the SS surplus to fund tax cuts is why we have trillions of dollars worth of IOUs in the SS Fund
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havocmom Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Thu Apr-07-05 03:54 PM
Response to Reply #2
4. And then, to push the privatization scheme, bush* complains that SS trust
fund is nothing but IOUs. He should know, he is the bastard who put them there.
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cidliz2004 Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Thu Apr-07-05 03:54 PM
Response to Reply #2
5. How do we communicate this in a short succinct statement to repeat?
Edited on Thu Apr-07-05 03:56 PM by cidliz2004
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Zuni Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Thu Apr-07-05 03:57 PM
Response to Reply #5
8. Bush is giving your SS money to rich republicans
Edited on Thu Apr-07-05 03:58 PM by Zuni
through tax cuts.

It is not a tax cut, it is a tax shift

For the rich to get tax cuts, you have to give up your social security
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cidliz2004 Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Thu Apr-07-05 04:18 PM
Response to Reply #8
17. That is a good statement to
Bush is giving your SS money to the rich in the form of tax cuts.
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cidliz2004 Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Thu Apr-07-05 03:58 PM
Response to Reply #2
10. Again, how can we communicate this to the masses?
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cheezus Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Thu Apr-07-05 03:54 PM
Response to Original message
3. one correction
the SS surplus was paid equally by the middle class and the rich.

the middle class pays a much higher SS tax rate than the rich
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cidliz2004 Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Thu Apr-07-05 03:56 PM
Response to Reply #3
7. Why do you say that? They both pay proportionately to the cutoff amount.
That is when the "wealthy" get their free ride.. right?
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Zuni Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Thu Apr-07-05 03:58 PM
Response to Reply #7
11. a person who makes 1,000,000$ a year
pays far less %% to FICA than one who makes 95,000$ a year
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cidliz2004 Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Thu Apr-07-05 04:12 PM
Response to Reply #11
13. True, it can be looked at as %% or the flat amount paid into the fund
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wicket Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Thu Apr-07-05 03:57 PM
Response to Original message
9. Check this out:
Mr DeFazio makes some great comments about this and eleudes to what you wrote.

http://atrios.blogspot.com/2005_04_03_atrios_archive.html#111281815408413672

Mr. DeFAZIO. Mr. Speaker, well, the President was on the road again today with yet another tightly controlled scripted, so-called town hall, before a carefully screened, invitation audience to tout to his plan to privatize Social Security.

Now, that is not unusual; in fact, the scripted town halls are all so similar that they can save the taxpayers a lot of money if he just stayed at Camp David or Crawford, Texas, and they just replayed the recordings of his earlier scripted, rehearsed town halls.

But the President did say today something extraordinary, in Parkersburg, West Virginia, and suggested something unconscionable. The President said, ``There is no trust fund.'' And then he went on to suggest that our Nation might not honor its debt to Social Security. This is what the President said does not exist.

Let me read from this. This is a Social Security Trust Fund bond, considered the best investments in the world, U.S. Treasury Bond. This is the most privileged of Treasury bonds issued to Social Security, redeemable at any time at full face value, unlike any other bond that they issue. These are the most privileged of their bonds. The President says it is nothing but an IOU. Well, here is what it says: This bond is incontestable in the hands of the Federal Old Age and Survivors Insurance Trust Fund. The bond is supported by the full faith and credit of the United States. And the United States is pledged to the payment of the bond with respect to both principal and interest.

The President questions that? He is questioning whether we are going to repay our most privileged debt to Social Security. We have $7.9 trillion of debt. He is adding to it at a record rate, borrowing $1.3 million a minute. Who is he saying we are going to repay and not repay?

Are we going to repay the Chinese but not the Social Security Trust Fund? Are we going to repay President Bush, he happens to have some U.S. Treasury Bonds in his personal portfolio, but not the Social Security Trust Fund? Are we going to repay other wealthy investors around the world and in the U.S., but not the Social Security Trust Fund? We are going to selectively default on our debt.

Suggesting something like that, if the bond markets believed the President, the dollar would drop to near zero tomorrow, and there would be an economic catastrophe, but they do not believe him. They know this is just politics and rhetoric on his part. There is no intention of the Government of the United States defaulting on its debt.

This year Social Security will collect $170 billion more than it needs to pay Social Security benefits, and they are invested in the trust fund. If what the President said is true, there is no trust fund, and we are not going to honor it, then Congress and the President are perpetrating a fraud of extraordinary magnitude on the working people of America, extorting through taxes $170 billion more than they need to pay current benefits that this President has no intention of repaying. That is unbelievable.

Every minute, every minute, this President and this Congress are borrowing $320,000 of Social Security taxes and spending it on something else. And the President says he is replacing it with worthless IOUs; they are not bonds, they are not investments. He questions whether they will be repaid. He questions the full faith and credit of the Government of the United States of America and its willingness, our willingness, to meet our obligations and our debt.

If what the President says is true, then we ought to give the working people of America, instead of the rich people of America, the biggest tax cut in history. Reduce the Social Security tax, which falls more heavily on working people. More working Americans pay more in Social Security taxes than they do income taxes to the Federal Government.

If he has no intention of repaying that $170 billion that he is borrowing this year of excess Social Security taxes, then we should not collect it under false pretenses. We should give people a big tax break. That would stimulate small business, employment, and put a lot of money in the pockets of working people. I am not advocating that.

But if he does not repay it, he should be advocating it, and instead of trying to switch the game and having an irrelevant debate over a so-called privatization plan which actually makes the funding problems of Social Security worse and would require another few trillion dollars of borrowing, in which I guess people would get these worthless bonds that the President questions.

Now, who is going to buy those worthless bonds? How is he going to continue to run the Government of the United States borrowing $1.3 million a minute if the bonds of this country are worthless?

This is an extraordinary and reckless statement for the elected President of the United States to make.
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cidliz2004 Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Thu Apr-07-05 04:16 PM
Response to Reply #9
16. Great REad - It amazes me that Chimpy could say that and No One is talk
ing about it!
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cosmicdot Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Thu Apr-07-05 06:26 PM
Response to Reply #9
19. "Are we going to repay President Bush ... he happens to have ...
... some U.S. Treasury Bonds in his personal portfolio ...?"

if they are the U.S. Treasury Notes listed in Bu$h**'s 2003 financial statement ... he had some 'come due' in 2003 and last year, too; and, then, he has some for this year: in February, May, August and November ... assets ranging in value between $100,000-$500,000 plus whatever interest they'll pay: $5,000-$50,000??? ... each ... then, there are his Notes for 2006, 2007, 2008, 2009 ...

he should tell us if he got/gets the money

start on page 5 of 16
http://www.opensecrets.org/pfds/pfd2003/N00008072_2003.pdf


that insider Harken Oil deal is still making this slacker money
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wicket Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Fri Apr-08-05 07:28 AM
Response to Reply #19
20. thanks- great info!
:kick:
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Trillo Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Thu Apr-07-05 03:58 PM
Response to Original message
12. I agree.
Edited on Thu Apr-07-05 04:01 PM by SimpleTrend
SS is claimed to not be a program of wealth transference, but it is.

"SS surplus funded rich's tax cuts."

The word "surplus" is important to repeat.
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Kansas Wyatt Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Thu Apr-07-05 04:13 PM
Response to Original message
14. When is anyone going to challenge Chimpy...
Edited on Thu Apr-07-05 04:16 PM by Kansas Wyatt
About his statement that there is no difference between payroll taxes and income taxes?

Chimpy financed his first term tax cuts for the wealthy with the Social Security Trust Fund (Bush robbed working Americans). When is someone going to correct his ass about a big difference between payroll taxes (Trust Fund) and income taxes (Government revenue)?

:wtf: Enron blueprint for the Federal Government now?
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cidliz2004 Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Thu Apr-07-05 04:15 PM
Response to Reply #14
15. Income tax, taxes on the rich's dividends, Capital Gains.....
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goodboy Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Thu Apr-07-05 04:24 PM
Response to Original message
18. say, "do you want SS or do you want a billionaire to buy a private jet"
do you want SS or do you want some billionaire to buy another plasma TV for their yacht?

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