NOW tthere can be charges of vigilantism with the Minutemen

[Walt Starr]

http://www.democraticunderground.com/discuss/duboard.php?az=show_topic&forum=104&topic_id=3440374#3440601

If the allegations are true, and apparently there is at least one photograph, this would be an actual case of vigilantism. Also, if true, there could be civil liability and not only from the person who did this, but also the leadership of the Minutemen and the property owner who invited the Minutemen onto his land in the first place.

[ulysses]

1. like day follows night...

:shrug:

[Beetwasher]

2. Well Duh

As I've been saying all along, the whole idea is a disaster in the making.

So it's not illegal, but neither is shoving a red hot poker up your ass.

Just call us critics of these douchebags Nostradamous. :eyes: It doesn't take a genius to figure out that racist scumbags running around w/ guns aren't really looking out for anyone's best interest.

[ulysses]

3. LOL!

:D :thumbsup:

[Walt Starr]

7. Well here we had a case of the law being broken

This guy crossed the line from being 100% wihtin the realm of the law to blatantly violating the law.

[havocmom]

8. And, he did it to further his personal political aspirations

Gee, he showed up in AZ with tee shirts screen printed with his name and heroic deed. Just had to bag himself an illegal for a photo-op. Not only illegal activity, but PREMEDITATED.

[Walt Starr]

9. Yep, I have to admit it. He premeditated this illegal act. n/t

[goodhue]

13. How do you know he broke the law?

His conduct is abhorrent as is the whole enterprise but may well be perfectly legal. What is the line you think he crossed, the physical restraint or the tasteless photograph? Do you really think that the minutemen can "secure the border" or whatever the hell they think they are doing without physical restraint? They are packing heat!

But what crime do you think he would be charged with?
Assault?
Kidnapping?
What is illegal about taking a picture upon citizen arrest.

I am not defending their conduct as I believe they have no business whatsoever playing posse. But what was the legal line you think was crossed and how could they accomplish their stated goal without crossing it?

Here again for reference are the facts as reported:

http://abcnews.go.com/US/wireStory?id=648955&page=1

Carol Capas, a sheriff's office spokeswoman, said the 26-year-old Mexican man told agents he was physically restrained and forced to hold a shirt while his picture was taken and he was videotaped.

The shirt read: "Bryan Barton caught an illegal alien and all I got was this T-shirt."

Barton is one of the three volunteers. He told agents that they waved the man over to them, offered him food and water, and gave him the T-shirt and money before the Border Patrol arrived.

"All they did was provide water and wait for the Border Patrol," Minuteman spokesman Grey Deacon said. "What's the big deal?"

Deacon said project organizers were told by sheriff's officials that the incident wasn't a problem. But Capas said the investigation was continuing and authorities were reviewing a videotape that Barton provided to deputies.

"We do not have the time nor the patience for anyone attempting to turn this situation into a three ring circus," Cochise County Sheriff Larry Dever said in a statement.

[underpants]

4. "Why are you picking on them?"

Minuteman organizer James Gilchrist defends white supremacists from Alan Colmes: "Why are you picking on them?"

Reacting to Fox News host Alan Colmes's reference to news reports that white supremacists may have joined the Minuteman Project's efforts to prevent illegal immigrants from entering the United States via the Mexican border, Minuteman organizer James Gilchrist condemned supremacists but contended that "there are supremacist groups out there of all races, colors and creeds" and accused Colmes of "picking on" the white supremacists. Gilchrist has acknowledged that "white supremacists want us to wage a full battle at the border," but has denied that he is a racist: "Some people have said I'm racist, and that's just not true. ... My son-in-law is a full-on Mexican, and my grandson is half-Mexican."

http://mediamatters.org/items/200504060003

[BOSSHOG]

5. Some of his best friends are Mexican!

The God fearing life lovers would kill those crossing the border if they thought they could get away with it. And, they certainly wouldn't seek employment the way those immigrants do. Hand picking crops in the sun all day long. How many good christians would volunteer to take their job to do away with the demand?

[Horse with no Name]

6. Arizona Abu Ghraib.

Torture and humiliation....and the hits just keep on coming...:spank:

[Warpy]

10. Good, the INS has been complaining about those yahoos nonstop

and saying they're spending more time policing those beer gutted, drunken idiots more than they patrol the border.

I hope they get sued out of existence. I'd rather have trained vigilantes than untrained vigilantes, thanks.

[tyedyeto]

11. I read the earlier threads and what you wrote in them....

Some posts I agreed with you and on some others I didn't, but you always made the case that nothing had happened so why 'cry wolf'.

I have felt since I first heard about this 'Project' that something would happen. I felt tho, that until an incident occured, not one person should have said they were interferring with law enforcement. You always stated that case much better than I ever could. Kudos!

Most of my posts on this subject have been about the ordinary people trying to come into the US and not the legal/illegal aspect.

[goodhue]

12. The whole enterprise reeks of vigilantism.

And its patently racist to boot.

[goodhue]

14. vigilantism defined, actual or otherwise . . .

http://www.freesearch.co.uk/dictionary/vigilantism

vigilante

noun {C}

a person who tries in an unofficial way to prevent crime, or to catch and punish someone who has committed a crime, especially because they do not think that official organizations, such as the police, are controlling crime effectively. Vigilantes usually join together to form groups.

vigilantism

noun {U

[Beetwasher]

15. Right, Notice It Says TRIES?

All you have to do is TRY to prevent a crime to be labelled a vigilante. I'd say the minute (as in miniscule) men meet the criteria.

[goodhue]

16. For sure.

I'm not sure where the original poster got the idea that actual vigilantism requires law breaking.

[goodhue]

17. latest reports are that he was not held against his will

whatever that means
but minutemen are still vigilantes by definition

[Balbus]

18. Yeah, the media jumped the gun on this one.

After the video tape was actually viewed it turned out he was giving food, water, $20 and a t-shirt. He was not detained or coerced to any action in any way.

[tyedyeto]

19. Update: Volunteer booted over migrant incident

From Azstarnet:

http://www.azstarnet.com/sn/border/69636.php

Volunteer booted over migrant incident

THE ASSOCIATED PRESS

A civilian border watch group dismissed a volunteer who was investigated and cleared by authorities after he was accused of detaining an illegal entrant, group organizers said Friday.

Organizers of the Minuteman Project said the man violated the group's procedures. The volunteer gave the entrant $20, photographed him holding a T-shirt with a mocking slogan and fed him during Wednesday's encounter. The Mexican national later accused the volunteer of detaining him.

"The volunteer's actions were admirable, justified and undeniably humane," Chris Simcox, a project official, said in a news release, "but unfortunately they jeopardized our established procedures and overall purpose of passively monitoring the border.

"It's unfortunate, but we had to dismiss him from further participation," Simcox said. "Our adversaries will take even the most benign event and try to develop it into an international incident. We cannot allow any digression from our established policies and procedures."

>snip

The organizers don't want things to get out of hand? Just asking....