Just saw an ad for the Coral Ridge Hour; Who was Thomas Jefferson

[Kerrytravelers]

Why is James Kennedy, a "religious" pastor, speaking to his church about Thomas Jefferson and why the current thought on him is "a lie?"

Is Jefferson in the Bible somewhere? Did I miss that? Maybe he was one of the wisemen at the manger. I dunno... maybe he was an early "actvist judge." :eyes:


Seriously, what "lie" is he talking about? I can not even keep up with this nonsense anymore.

[SaveElmer]

1. He's trying to claim the founding fathers for the right wing

He has done the same with George Washington. It;s an attempt by the right to show that the founding fathers meant to make America an evangelistic christian country. He takes quotes out of context from them to try and prove his point. Of course, he is not above lying about it. The guy is a complete whack job!!!

[MrBenchley]

5. Nor is he above outright lying

and fabrication...

http://www.au.org/site/News2?JServSessionIdr001=10tqw5h0x1.app5b&abbr=pr&page=NewsArticle&id=6453&news_iv_ctrl=1461

[deutsey]

2. He's probably trying to recast Jefferson as Christian

although all the evidence I've seen suggests he was not a Christian in the way Kennedy defines the word.

[xpat]

4. Jefferson despised Christianity

However, he thought that Jesus was a great ethical teacher. Here's Jefferson's Bible. Note that he strips out all the supernatural bunk.

http://www.angelfire.com/co/JeffersonBible/index.html

If you want to cut to the chase, start with Chapter 17 verses 62-64. These verses leave little doubt about where Jefferson stood. The supporting materials on the site, including letters Jefferson wrote about the bible project confirm that he was not a Christian.

[deutsey]

7. That's part of the evidence I was referring to.

I love what Jefferson thought about the Gospels: he thought they were basically a pile of crap with some diamonds stuck in it. The trick is to extract the diamonds from dung. :evilgrin:

According to Jefferson, we need to abstract "what is really (the words of Jesus) from the rubbish in which it is buried, easily distinguished by its lustre from the dross of his biographers, and as separate from that as the diamond from the dung hill."

Also, he was friends with Unitarian minister and scientist Joseph Priestly (Unitarianism impressed Jefferson), and he often expressed his tolerance of and respect for faiths other than Christianity.

I have collected a long list of Jefferson's quotes on religion, but I don't have them here with me.

[Selteri]

10. I love his version, it's so much better in hoiw it was constructed N/T

[Bellamia]

9. Define " Christian ".

Ah, there's the catch! WE, yes, I'm a Christian, a member of CTM, Bishop Spong's Christians for The Third Millenium, WE come in all shapes, sizes, and beliefs. Thanks for the great website, it will be my "reading material" for this evening.

[xpat]

11. Define Christian?

AFAIK, it's defined by some variant of either the Apostle's or the Nicene Creed. Jesus, the teacher, was not a Christian. Christianity is the result of Constantine making some variant of "Christism" a state religion.

As a general rule, the little good that organized religion has accomplished by transmitting the ethical teachings of some great thinker is far outweighed by the atrocities accomplished in his name.

[Ladyhawk]

14. Shelby Spong is interesting. He doesn't sound at all like a...

..."Christian"--at least, the current definition as espoused by biblical literalists.

[MrBenchley]

3. Kennedy is one of those howling for theocracy

so I would suspect it's some Jefferson quotes pulled out of context to make it seem as if Long Tom never set up the church-state wall...

Here's some more on this odious twat...

"Today, just down the road from us, the Rev James Kennedy is hosting a rally to “Reclaim America.”  We are here to ask the obvious question.  Reclaim America From What? and to provide you with an answer that might surprise you:  The Rev Kennedy is waging a war to reclaim America from Democracy in favor of Theocracy.  ...We must not allow the fact that Rev Kennedy hides his political agenda behind the language of religion to prevent us from speaking out on behalf of Democracy.  Hiding behind religion to advance an oppressive political agenda is a misuse of religion, and we should not be afraid to say so.   Most declarations of faith are a declaration of love, and so, there is no reason for conflict.  But when a declaration of faith becomes a declaration of war, as is the case with Rev Kennedy, we must all be on our guard."

http://www.floridahumanist.org/issues/revkennedy.htm



http://www.au.org/site/News2?page=NewsArticle&id=5936&abbr=cs_

[punpirate]

6. Would be kinda interesting...

... to see how they spin the "Jefferson Bible" and some of his quotes about organized religion, such as:

"In every country and every age, the priest has been hostile to liberty. He is always in alliance with the despot ... they have perverted the purest religion ever preached to man into mystery and jargon, unintelligible to all mankind, and therefore the safer engine for their purpose." -- to Horatio Spafford, March 17, 1814

"History I believe furnishes no example of a priest-ridden people maintaining a free civil government. This marks the lowest grade of ignorance, of which their political as well as religious leaders will always avail themselves for their own purpose." -- To Baron von Humboldt, 1813

"Shake off all the fears of servile prejudices, under which weak minds are servilely crouched. Fix reason firmly in her seat, and call on her tribunal for every fact, every opinion. Question with boldness even the existence of a God; because, if there be one, he must more approve of the homage of reason than that of blindfolded fear." -- Letter to Peter Carr, Aug. 10, 1787

[xpat]

12. How about

"Religion is the opiate of the masses" -- anonymous

[punpirate]

13. Not anonymous....

That's Marx and Engels. You introduce the element of the communist hordes with that. :)

[coda]

8. Dr. Kennedy could do an hour reciting Jefferson quotes, warning

about people like himself, but it would take 5 shows to explain to the masses, what they "really" mean.

[Tomee450]

15. Probably still trying to

dispute the fact that Jefferson sired children by the black slave, Sally Hemming. A lot of people were very upset over that revelation. Some still refuse to accept it.