Dems are being smart with their silence on SS and the Schaivo case

[cidliz2004]

The minute that they start proposing ideas to counter Bush's idea of privatizing they give his idea feet and they give them the ammo that they need to start really fighting us about SS.

Whatever we may propose they will manipulate into their expert ways of making their idea being better for America than ours.

This way their idea has never gotten legs. It isn't going anywhere, because the arguments against it are solely focused on THEIR INTENTIONS. Same goes for the Schaivo case. They owned it, the minute we would have said something, it would have ceased being about Schaivo and started being about us being against life...

I think that they are being pretty smart for once.

[Clark Bayh 2008]

1. agreed

what do you think about the 2008 DNC convention site possibilities?

[cidliz2004]

2. A "Blue" State somewhere in the hotly contested Midwest

[Itsthetruth]

3. More Silence Please!

And I just loved the Democratic Party silence on Bush's appointments and legislation this year.

Now that's the mark of a true opposition political party. Silence!
Now if we can just get the single issue Democrats to shut-up on Social Security we'll have it made!

[Tandalayo_Scheisskopf]

4. Silence was warrented on the Schivo issue.

It gave no openings and allowed the repukes to reveal themselves in all their glory. On the other issues, strategic communications, well-framed and starkly oppositional, are warrented.

But they should say just enough and say it over and over and at the right times.

[Itsthetruth]

13. Sure

The Democrat Party could have buried the Republicans on that issue.

They either sat silent in their chairs, went into hiding or voted for the Republican led legislation!

[Tandalayo_Scheisskopf]

21. Please note:

The proper name is "Democratic Party". As stated in the charters of the party and in legal incorporating documents. "Democrat Party" is a wholly-owned diminutive of Newton Gingrich and the frothing right-wing. It is considered very disrespectful in these here parts.

No disrespect towards you intended. :thumbsup:

[cidliz2004]

5. I'm not saying that silence on all issues are good, but on the two

that I mentioned, I think that it has been wise.

The SS issue will eventually have to have discussion. But right now, Bush is having negative feedback for his ideas and like I said before, let him continue digging his own grave by himself. When he digs the whole deep enough, we can then kick him into it.

[Judi Lynn]

8. Single issue Democrats need to join the Silent Majority!

It's wonderful seeing the Republicans desperately casting about for something to grasp, in order to launch an attack. They are trying to bitch about the fact Democrats haven't offered their opinions, their solutions, etc., etc., but it sounds comical.

[Itsthetruth]

15. What Solutions?

Perhaps the Democratic Party hasn't offered its "solutions" and "opinions" on Bush's appointments and legislation because it has none!

The Democratic Party "big tent" circus needs to provide lots of space for Bush enablers. Progressives can buy a ticket to watch them perform.

[msanthrope]

6. When your enemy is doing your job, and doing it well,

you keep your mouth shut.

The SS plan road trip, DeLay's foaming at the mouth, Cornyn's hit on federal judges, and now, Mel Martinez's Memo Mystery.

Dems have been smart to shut up and let the circular firing squad do their work. The Big Dog did it all the time.

Now, the tricky part is when to unsheath the knife. Hillary will know.

[Itsthetruth]

16. Thanks BIG DOG!

Thanks for NAFTA and "welfare reform" BIG DOG. "The era of big government is over".

[solinvictus]

7. Silence is golden...

especially on Schiavo and SS. Let the Repukes hang themselves, they're doing an admirable job. Then, hit the ground running to oppose their destructive policies.

[BeFree]

9. Ah, golden

Funny, we are the conservatives when it comes to Social Security.

The piglickers are digging themselves a hole, the most we should do is make sure they have plenty of shovels.

BTW: Haven't we been saying for years that the piglickers, if they ever got their hands around SS, they'd strangle it to death? Well, it looks like they are trying to pull the feeding tube already.

[goodboy]

10. I don't think speaking out about *'s plan gives it legs, the people are

already opposed to it. All it will do is reinforce that DEMS have the people's best interests at heart.

Dems need to slip the noose. Pull the lever, Throw the switch,

Silence is golden, except when the pukes come up with commercials saying the Dems don't have a plan. Then our silence plays right into their hands.

[Lone_Star_Dem]

11. Those commercials are a plea for help, IMO

They are sinking fast and they know it. They are trying to bait the Dem's to put a plan on the table to give them something to pick apart and take some of the heat off of themselves.

I don't think they expected the Dem's to stay quiet this long on the issue and it's only further hampered their plans to push their idea.

Let them keep screaming crisis and private accounts for a while longer. People who weren't watching the market before are now beginning to keep an eye on it. This isn't the 90's market and indexes are all over the place. They are getting an education on the falling dollar and rising oil prices effect on our economy.

Let them chew on these revelations for a bit more, let the AARP focus on Medicare cuts for awhile, and then you come out loaded for bear and attack.

Like it or not the 'fix' is in the taxes. Even if it is just removing some of the SS cap. Whatever the plan the Dem's are going to propose will include taxes. You don't' bring something like that to the table until the people are in a state of mind to accept it. Especially when you're up against the masters of spin.

[goodboy]

12. I keep hearing that we'll attack when the timing's right...when's gon' be

the right time?

[Lone_Star_Dem]

18. I hear what your saying.

On far too many issues they've sat on their hands and done nothing, and in doing so have let things happen that they shouldn't have. I agree.

These two issues are the only ones I've agreed with their silence on. For once it makes sense. It's either the fact that the odds were in their favor of finally getting one right, or they are being smart. Either way it's working out to our benefit for a change.

If they never step up to the plate and take a swing at it then I'm going to go off. As it is right now the bush and crew are doing such a nice job of making fools out of themselves (and the public is noticing for a change) I'm OK with their silence.

[goodboy]

19. I think the public deserves to know what we're gonna do to help them

that's all I'm sayin'

[Lone_Star_Dem]

20. Help them how?

Protecting them from bush? A large block of the voting public voted for him. They won't believe he's wrong if a Dem tells them he's wrong. They have to see it from Bush with their own two eyes.

A large portion of the American public deserves a swift kick in the behind, in my opinion.

You can't help people who won't help themselves. Until the American public learns that they're votes helped to make this possible how do you suggest it be repaired?

The Dem's have said they do plan on fighting bush on SS, I believe them. Call me crazy, I won't blame you after the way things have been for the past four years.

If things were currently going in a different direction I'd be the on my soapbox saying they need to get in there and FIGHT. I know that for a fact because I've been in that position far too many times.

[goodboy]

22. it's all about framing the issue in our favor. We oppose destroying SS

we oppose taking healthcare from the poor, we abhor these ethics violations of tom delay etc...

the people ought to know where we stand, dontcha think? These same small-minded a-holes who voted for the monkey will really get sucked in by those bullshit commercials on CNN saying the dems have no plan for SS. They'll belive that shit because they haven't heard our plan.

you say you believe the dems have a plan for SS, can you tell me what it is?


seriously...

[Lone_Star_Dem]

25. I live in the midst of those small minded a-holes.

Right now the majority are more concerned with what bush plans to do with SS than if the Dem's have an opposition plan. The ones who will vote Republican even if it means they would lose everything are the only ones I've heard that talking point from. And they've been using it since February. I think those commercials are preaching to the choir.

I've heard it informally mentioned by Dem's that if they were to raise the cap on SS tax (as I mentioned in a previous post) from 90k to 150k this would create enough funding to offset any future issues. I've not seen anything draw up to prove this, but I've not seen anything drawn up by bush to prove his theory either.

The only thing I think the Dem's should be doing right now is pointing out where the money that has been paid into SS has gone. I'll give you a hint it's not benefits.

[goodboy]

26. What does that mean to the rednecks? Nothing. How about eliminating

the bush tax cuts for the ultra rich.

[Lone_Star_Dem]

27. Exactly

The old school republicans are beginning to see things in their party they don't like.

The tax cuts for the rich didn't' do one thing to help them. I point out how the tax cap on SS doesn't them either.

The problem is every time a Democrat mentions raising taxes the media repeats it over and over again. Until it's become one of the issues that's associated with Dem's in a negative way.

Social Security is something that people don't like being messed with. I've spent my time talking to people explaining how large amounts of the money paid in has went for other things. If that would never have happened you wouldn't have bush preaching private accounts. Not at this point in time, anyway.

They are almost ready to listen to other ideas. I just hope that when they are there's someone willing to offer one.

[goodboy]

28. we have to grow the balls to say, "Yes! I'm raising taxes on billionaires

for the greater good, so our children, and grandchildren will have social security...and if I have to inconvenience a billionaire, and they won't be able to buy a new plasma screen for their yacht, then so be it"

Why is it only the poor are sacrificing in blood during war time? Why shouldn't the people who've benefited greatly in this country give something back?

[Lone_Star_Dem]

33. That's pretty much what I think they are going to have to say.

I'm sure the bush crew knows it, too. How it will be received and how it will be spun is the unknown.

Does it help that more people are becoming aware of the situation thanks to the republicans push on SS, Schiavo and their attacks on judges? All I know is since they've begun this, bush's numbers have been dropping and so have DeLay's.

Their own people are not pleased with what they are saying and doing. This is a mess that they've created all on their own. I don't think the time to give them someone else to shift attention to is just yet.

[goodboy]

35. I'd also say, you want your social security and medicaid, or do you

want a billionaire to have another summer home. or maybe a private jet?

[cidliz2004]

30. Everytime the Dems open their mouths, the Media spins it and twists it

"The problem is every time a Democrat mentions raising taxes the media repeats it over and over again. Until it's become one of the issues that's associated with Dem's in a negative way"


THAT IS WHY SILENCE IS GOLDEN....IF THE DEMS SAY NOTHING (AT LEAST FOR THE TIME BEING) THE MEDIA HAS NOTHING TO SKEW AND TWIST.

[Lone_Star_Dem]

34. I think this is what the republicans are trying to bait them into

If for no other reason, to take some of the pressure off of the republicans.

They are taking hits on these issues and the Dem's didn't respond like they expected. This has left the spotlight on their words only. When you look at what they've been saying, I don't blame them for wanting a diversion.

[cidliz2004]

38. Recisely! You put the perfect words to my thoughts!

[cidliz2004]

29. EXACTLY!!!!!!! We should have this on posters and signs

at any Republican gathering. I always hear that SS is a pay as you go program. And that in the near future there will be more collectors than there will be payers. What I never hear following that is "WHAT HAS HAPPENED TO THE SURPLUS that has been collected over the years, and what is happening to the surplus now?"

[Kansas Wyatt]

32. Because they spent the payroll taxes like it was income tax revenue.

Then Bush got greedy and blew the whole wad, and claimed that there was no difference between payroll and income taxes (he obviously does not know his ass from a hole in the ground if he thinks that).

[cidliz2004]

37. The funny thing is that Bush ran on giving the tax surplus back to the r

rich, but the SS taxes have a cap on them omitting the rich having to pay any more than the middle class, so the give back consisted of the middle incomes overpayment of SS and it went primarily to the wealthy?

[Beetwasher]

14. They Need To Be LOUD but OBLIQUE

They shouldn't scream about Schiavo, but rather the should scream about keeping the gov't OUT OF PERSONAL PRIVATE DECISIONS and about protecting INDIVIDUAL RIGHTS.

They shouldn't come out w/ their OWN SS plan, but they should be HOWLING to high heaven DEMANDING Bush show HIS plan and screaming about PROTECTING SS etc.

They should be talking LOUDLY and OFTEN in their OWN terms about these issues.

[mmonk]

17. Well they've been smart since 2000 then.

[More Than A Feeling]

23. Nominated!

Exactly what I have been saying, but said much better!

[cidliz2004]

39. Thank you!

[applegrove]

24. Very true. Sociopaths always need a scapegoat. Don't step into

the arena. Let them start attacking each other.

[FreedomAngel82]

31. Exactly

That's why I'm glad they aren't giving any plans of talking unless Bush takes off privatizing. And you're right. They'll find some way to manipulate what's going on and what the democrats said to going along with their plan. Very smart indeed.

[Hardrada]

36. If the repugs are into a domestic fight, stay out!!

Even police try to stay out of domestic battles!!

[BillZBubb]

40. I agree and disagree--I am a MugWump on this.

The Democrats should in no case propose any Social Security "fixes". You are absolutely, one hundred percent correct on that. They are twisting in their own wind on that and we should never give them a lifeline.

They should continue to attack any assinine Repug suggestions though. We need to continue to frame the issue around what they intend to do as the governing party.

On Schaivo, I disagree. That was a perfect time for Democrats as a party to take a firm position on a key issue. Again the framing was critical. We needed to stay away from the particular of Teri Schaivo and deal with the more general government intrusion aspect. It was a winning issue for us. We cannot continue to be so pusillanimous and worry about the spin of "us being against life".

If you take any stand, the Repugs are going to attack you. But to lead you must take stands. That's why Repugs, even dimwits like the Chimperor, always win polls on leadership. And that's why we never do.

[cidliz2004]

41. You have some very valid points

I still say that the Democrats acted in the best way for Schaivo though. Schaivo situation got such an emotional reaction from many of the Christian Fundies, if we would have said "Government Interference" they would have said "Abortion" and the troops would have dutifully lined up behind the Republicans. This way the message was totally the Republicans, the reaction from the public was totally directed toward the Republicans and the egg was on the Republicans face. After all, if the media and the Republicans wouldn't have exploited this tragic case, there naturally would have been nothing blown out of proportion. This was a private matter from the beginning, the Republicans thrust it into the limelight and the Democrats treated it like it still was a private matter. This way people cannot say (at least the ones with 1/2 a brain) that the Democrats, in any way, exploited this family. They did not. They treated the whole matter the way it should have been treated, they stayed out of it. Leading is done by example, and sometimes the example is done with dignity and a whisper.