How's this for a vision?

[MsTryska]

watching Thomas Friedman on the Daily Show from monday night caused me to think it over.



Dems adopt Energy Independence as their main issue for the next couple of election cycles. It's a great marketing concept and it's definitely a enterpiece i can get behind.

For the hope ads - plenty of greenery and blue skies and candidates standing in front of waving flags. Tours of ethanol plants (a la Jimmy Dean commercials) and golden waves of grain.

For the attack ads - rising gas prices, quotes taken out of context, so and so is in bed with the oil companies to keep gas prices high for YOU so they can profit.


We could get really dirty when we need to, and really hopeful about creating new jobs, fostering the sciences, giving americans the chance for true independence - so on and so forth.

blame the republicans for rehashing the same old 19th century attacks on morality and focusing too much on religion when we have real bread and butter issues on the table. Call out the hypocrisy at every opportunity and really use these people's "false faith" as examples of playing witht he same old constructs. Voting for them will change nothing but YOUR religion.


Seriously i think this is a whole new cutting edge direction to take things. everything liberals stand for can be framed in the concept of Energy Independence -

personal freedoms (independence on the micro-scale, refusal to support Oil-producing countries human rights abuses)

stewardship of the land (cutting emmissions, using renewable resources)

economic issues (lower gas prices, a new and exciting industry, a new focus on the sciences)

and of course the nod to capitalism in fostering those companies willing to do the research and the work to move us forward into the future.


what do y'all think?

[BlueEyedSon]

1. Nope. The only thing that matters is that gays can't get married.

[MsTryska]

2. *lol* so we let them frame the debate and we'll just keep chewing

on that bone till we get every last bit of bitterness out of it. right then, back to the drawing board.

[punpirate]

13. Truthfully, the single greatest obstacle...

... to the implementation of many renewable energy programs has been overcoming the perception of the average person that it won't change their "way of life."

The `pugs have consistently used that to thwart energy programs which do not further the interests of established, mature industries and the now-large phenomenon of mass consumerism.

If you can't convince people through such ads that their lives will be improved and that those changes will be painless, it's a campaign that's ripe for exploitation by the Republicans--unless economic conditions get so bad that ordinary people begin to demand alternatives on their own.

Cheers.

[MsTryska]

16. That's easily done......

the change is painless - ethanol exists, and our cars can use it - and it's about 10 cents cheaper at least at the pump right now -

we focus on the ethanol refineries first - and the farming that makes refineable product -

that gives you refinery jobs, and a new option for struggling farmers.

we've got coal - that can be instituted as well, and hopefully help those old coal mining towns....


that's our first line forward - the things that already exist - and then we move forward with the new technologies - making the exploration of viable opporutnities high priority - giving all those garage inventors and child prodigies projects to work on.


Like the Virgin CEO and his plane that could go into space or whatever. He described his idea, and offered a reward or a grant or seomthing - and all those people came out of the woodwokr to bite at the challenge.

[punpirate]

22. Ethanol, as a replacement for gasoline...

... is a dead end, for a number of reasons. First, there's not enough arable land--or water--available to provide feedstocks and fuel. Second, it now takes 1.4 calories of energy to produce 1 calorie of food/fuel. It can help with fuel costs, in the short term, but not long term. Beyond that, the only way that it remains relatively cheap as an additive is to break the hold of large agribusiness firms such as ADM on ethanol production and to fund co-operatives.

Ultimately, too, in the short term, it actually hurts small farmers, because increasing production ultimately will mean market manipulation by middlemen, as happened in the middle-to-late-`70s. Remember the demands for more grain production in the `70s, for the presumed purpose of supplying the Soviet Union with surpluses to cover their shortfalls? What happened? A large number of small farmers were forced out of business by dropping grain prices by 1980-81. The net result was consolidation of large corporate farms and conversion of useful farmland to real estate development. As well, getting government to protect one class of farmer against the predations of middlemen and corporate farmers is very difficult.

Finally, corn production today depends upon very large amounts of fertilizer, herbicides and pesticides, all of which are produced from oil. Their increased use offsets some of the advantage gained by adding 10% ethanol to fuel. There's a further disadvantage in that a large proportion of corn-producing land in the midwest is being badly depleted in nutrients because of fertilizer use. Heavy use of nitrate fertilizer, combined with large amounts of applied irrigation water creates a weak nitric acid solution in the soil, which leaches out essential minerals, which then run off the soil into waterways. Trying to increase production to accommodate fuel use will then exacerbate and accelerate that problem.

Coal presents other problems--especially in the sort of environment created by the Bushies. Increased air-quality problems are inevitable, as are increased mercury pollution problems, as are increased CO2 emissions--especially with Bush's so-called Clear Skies Initiative in place. Coal liquefication processes have not yet proven anywhere near cost-effective enough.

I'm not trying to be difficult about this, but emphasizing dead-end industries as solutions won't actually fix the problem, although doing so might forestall the inevitable larger problem for a short while.

Cheers.

[MsTryska]

23. right......

and forestalling is the key - it gives one readymade solution - but with an eye to more viable solutions in the long-term.

[punpirate]

27. As Molly Ivins says,

"The first rule of holes is that when you find yourself in one, stop digging."

In the energy field, that means, first and foremost, conservation. It's difficult to get people to acknowledge that, because they perceive it as a change of lifestyle. That's why I suggest that hard times may be necessary to convince the recalcitrant, and education in the possibilities is necessary--the best real-world case I can think of in this regard is the recent gaming of the California energy system. It prompted a lot of change in a short period of time, because people were genuinely threatened economically by the situation.

But, what good are those stopgaps if they cause even larger problems later? Forestalling the inevitable isn't a ready-made solution--it's compounding one's difficulties, ultimately. As importantly, it eats up financial resources that could be better applied elsewhere.

Cheers.

[shadowknows69]

3. I think I nominate you

as our next candidate's campaign manager :yourock:

[MsTryska]

8. *lol* thanks man!

my roommate always says if she runs for president i'm her campaign manager.


ya gotta admit it would be a slick piece of marketing. I'm thinking commercials with the current BP ad campaign feel to them - all sunshine and hope, and no pandering politican - jsut the last bit at the end - i'm "blah blah blah blah and I support this message" for the initial stuff. get people feeling good and feeling hopeful first.

[shadowknows69]

25. well when your roomate runs keep me in mind to make the ads

I do TV commercials in my business. See networking is fun.

[MsTryska]

33. well - don't hold your breath on the roomie's presidential run....

i'd like to see america vote in a bipolar single female.


but here's an idea you might appreciate - as far as Political Ads go - this would have to be done with a PAC but what about a series of snarky animated ads?

kind of like the retro "Nuclear Energy is the Future" type theme.

[Snotcicles]

28. It's a great idea it would draw back in the greens also.

And we ain't far from having alt.energy. Look at this co.
http://www.energyconversiondevices.com/

[MsTryska]

34. exactly - we need to bring

everyone back under the tent.


ECD looks like a very cool company, btw - here's a couple that i'm watching right now:

http://www.qtww.com/ and http://www.impco.ws/

[LynneSin]

4. And as Joe driving Behometh SUV Voter, I would say "Screw That"

seriously - that add would work well in the more liberal northern states, but for someone with the mindset that "I need a big SUV to make up for my small penis" it would be more incentive to vote repuke.

Plus, as Joe Working Minimum Wage for Wal-Mart Voter, those exciting new science jobs means nothing to me since I did nothing but smoke dope and snort crank throughout high school and married my HS sweetheart in 11th grade when I found out she was pregnant.


BTW, as Joe living in the liberal NE driving a fuel efficiant car Voter - I like the idea. I just don't think it would play well in Red States

[MsTryska]

7. Well remember - we're not even discussing your SUV....

what you drive is irrelevant - because we're looking at fuel alternatives. We don't need you to drive an electric car or buy a whole new one - we just want you to have to stop paying 50 bucks every couple days to gas up so you can get to your job.

We want ethanol available in your area - so you don't have to feel that crunch at the pump. As for you working at Wal-mart - this vision is for your kids - they can have a chance to be the next Bill Gates.


Something else Friedman said - the country as a whole got excited when JFK spoke abotu space. Every kid wanted to be an astronout - economics didn't matter - being good int he sciences did.

We need to capture the people's imagination, so the ideas of having to "give up SUVs" and "i work at wal-mart,, i don't care" become irrelevant. Tap into that patriotism, love of country and need to be a superpower, and use it more constructive, less fear-based ways.

[patricia92243]

5. Too bad this didn't happen in the last two political cycles.

[MsTryska]

10. Yeah - that would have been nice....

but i think it would have rolled off many people's backs - but now with gas reaching all time-highs and our destinies hopelessly tied to the middle east, the concept is ripe for application.

Gore had the internets - that was latest greatest technology - and truth be told - he was talking about renewable energy too - but it wasn't his prime focus.


If we can bring Alternative Fuel, and environmental concerns to the forefront in the context of economics - not "crunchy granola tree-hugging" - the repubs don't have a leg to stand on - their track records are horrible. Which is why they attack dems with Moral Wedges - our record (in the christo-fascist sense) is horrible.

[ashmanonar]

6. we don't even need to get dirty;

the repubs do that for us. we just gotta tell the truth.

ala Adlai Stevenson. :D

[MsTryska]

12. yeah - but we've gota hit back

when they start their usual sh*t. the things that frustrated me most about the last 2 campaigns (02 and 04) is that we did not hit back and pull all the dirty laundry out for everyone to see.

[ashmanonar]

30. yea.

it's no use playing nice when the other side doesn't.

[leveymg]

9. Sounds like a Carter-Mondale '76 campaign ad.

Well, you know what - they got elected.

:D

[MsTryska]

14. *lol* a generation later we can get it to work again...

primarily because the technology has moved forward - cars can burn ethanol now - GM has partenred with Quantum to have hyrdogen-based fuel cell in just 5 years, we've got hybrid technology- there's plenty to be hopeful about....we just need to bring it to the forefront and say that we will do everything we can to make these and other options affordable and available to everyone so they aren't chained to that horrible gas pump and it's sky high paycheck eating prices.

[laura888]

11. VERY NICE

I like the way you think.

[MsTryska]

18. thanks! nt

if you like the idea - talk it up, and maybe someday soon, the dems in power will start thinking about it, at least.

[Cessna Invesco Palin]

15. Can't do THAT!

>Dems adopt Energy Independence as their main issue

"Energy Independence" is seven syllables, and as we all know the limit for campaign issues is four syllables.

[MsTryska]

17. How about Fuel Liberty?

the War on Oil?

Energy Freedom?

[annabanana]

19. Energy Freedom...

I like that one.. euphonious...rolls right off the tongue....

[Francesca]

20. Great but IMO everything your talking about are

moral issues.. I think avoiding religion and morals on the part of progressives as a counterbalance to the fundamentalist/religious right may be instinctive but its a mistake... many progressive movements used the church and religious values (civil rights movement for example).. Obviously every one here knows that conservation of our resources is a moral value but I believe some people are underestimating the support for these values in the church..

[MsTryska]

26. oh we don't need to ignore them....

but frankly playing to religious bigotry is their thing....ours is how can we make our country better.

[Francesca]

40. you misunderstood

I am not talking about "playing to religious bigotry"... I am referring to the numerous moderate and progressive christians who with very little encouragement could identify more with democratic values than with what the republican party is currently offering...

[MsTryska]

44. but here's my question.....

why should a political party pander to a church - be it any church.


is hope not a christian value?

inspiration? community spirit? why must we take special care for "Christian values"

they should not be any different from humanist values in the first place.



if you feel the churches need to support this, then on Sundays - go to your church and witness - bring people to your side of thinking.

[Francesca]

45. well for one thing I don't attend church :)

and I am not at all advocating "special care" but I think the left is making a knee jerk reaction of extreme secularism to fundamentalism (I have been doing it myself and see it in others around me) that will alienate a large block of voters who are nothing like the radical right we see so much of on television and certainly would help in an election....

[MsTryska]

46. well as long as we think that way,

we're thinking within the Conservative's construct.


think about it - these issues of the big rift with the religious right, values voters, blah blah blah - did not show up on the radar until the 2004 election. it's a media myth, probably seeded by the republicans int he first place to explain away their theft of the election.


the sects they are pandering too are a minor teeny tiny percentile of the population at large, and a small percentage of republicans at large. don't let the media fool you.


normal christians care about the same things everyone else does - economics, the good of the country, the good of their fellow man, poverty, healthcare, war and the deficit.

[Francesca]

47. as you just said

"normal Christians care about the same things everyone else does - economics, the good of the country, the good of their fellow man, poverty, health care, war and the deficit".... and I agree with that which is why there is nothing wrong with making these people feel welcome... I see a different trend as I stated before we are overreacting in some cases to the religious right...

I am not sure you understand where I am coming from as you mention that I should not let the "media fool me" ... I have yet to make a statement on their numbers but have been talking about the lefts reaction to them ... Its ironic because it seems that you have bought the very myth that you are warning me of... I personally feel that some people on the left are reacting to the right by taking a hard line polar opposite position of extreme secularism...

There has to be a line between wanting the ten commandments on every government building and the other extreme of excluding words like god and religion from public debate... both in my opinion are equally ridiculous...

I really liked your original post and my initial response was not intended to provoke this back and forth...although i personally enjoy discussions like this you may be annoyed and if so I apologize..

[MsTryska]

48. No Nothing you have said annoys me....

i just think that we all are making too big a deal of religion and it's involvement in politics - and it's because the republicans and their media have made it front and center. and in that way they are manifesting our destiny for us.

I think it's all smoke and mirrors and what angers me the most is the tactics employed to create this imaginary rift based on 1 or 2 issues, and what that is doing to our country and everyone's perceptions in general.


the paradigm is shifting and not in a good way, and we as a party need to bring it back to a more inclusive, participatory paradigm.

[Francesca]

49. I can't disagree with anything

you said! I just want to make sure we don't alienate those Christians who I believe will be voting democratic in 2008... I know a lot of them who are becoming disgusted with the republicans and the recent overt politicization of the Terry Schiavo case for example has been the final straw... I think there is going to be a backlash against the republicans on the part of the moderate Christians in this country in a large way... right now (today) polling came out that congressional approval ratings are dismal...Most of the born agains that I know where absolutely outraged about the interference of Congress and did not identify whatsoever with the lunatics protesting outside... they make a lot of noise but they certainly don't represent the majority... Perhaps I am optimistic but I believe 2006 is going to go well for us...

[MsTryska]

52. i see the same things.....

and i agree with you that there are more possible democrats post-Teri.

I also think now is the time for a redirect - let's move away from these pre-defined wedge issues, and give a new vision - we focus so much on our differences - time to focus on things we have in common.

i think the reason we're focusing on the differences, is because frankly what else is there? (in the National political dialogue) when was the last fresh idea? when was the last time their were clearly delineated differences between the parties other than these wedge issues that many people have no experience with?

Roe v Wade is not going to get turned over.

Considering the latest news out of Connecticut - equal rights for GLBTs are going to march forward (albeit slower than most would like) regardless of how much of a stink others raise.

What needs to happen is take the focus away from these wedges that inspire hate and bigotry and in some cases violence - and move towards issue that inspire hope and genius - we can then address the fear-based issues after we've gotten people in a better frame of mind.

(this is predicated on instilling those positive "christian" values all along - in the filter of Vision based on real tactile pragmatic meat and potatoes issues faced by everyone.)

[Francesca]

50. duplicate

[Francesca]

51. sorry 2nd duplicate.. too aggressive with my mouse...

[rainy]

21. Then the ads could show Oil men and woman, Chaney, Bush, Rice

with poluted rivers, oil driping everywhere, ducks covered in oil, raped forrests, starving american children etc.... Oil tankers with Condaliza's name on them.

[MsTryska]

24. don't forget flag-draped caskets

and limbless soldiers.

[Hugin]

29. How's about pumping gas into a casket... There's your image. n/t

[DARE to HOPE]

31. Excellent--Hope for the future is what wins the day...

...yes, energy independence--there are so many tangents to this that will work for us.

As to the moral issues--polls are coming in saying that Congress and the White House should NOT be spending their time on such things (by 55-60%.) Let us have a campaign saying that our churches and synagogues (and mosques) should be where these debates are worked out.

I think the Schiavo thing backfired on them--bigtime.

[MsTryska]

32. my thinking exactly.....

we take the theme, and then run with it - essentially many of the core problems we have domestically, and globally can be funnelled through this filter.

[Greenbeard]

35. Excellent Idea. Lets get started.

I usually don't post from work but sometimes when I see a truly great idea I will make an exception.

Nice work MsTryska

The best way to defeat a message of fear, pessimism, and anger is to provide a message of hope, vision, and understanding.

No need to wast time attacking those people driving SUV's. They already know the story and if they are still driving one then they have already made their choice. Instead, we spend our time working and promoting a new VISION.

It really shouldn't be that hard to sell the idea of supporting investment in new technologies that have the ability to provide more fuel-efficient SUV's (which everybody seems to love these days - including many still sporting Kerry bumper stickers if you haven't noticed. Instead of trying to change our fellow Americans, we spend our time and energy trying to make the American lifestyle work long-term for both America and the world. We may be fat and lazy but we are willing to work our butts off so that we have that choice.

Who knows, by working hard to save a few bucks on fuel costs and relieving ourselves from dependence on foreign sources of oil we may just change ourselves a little in the process. There would plenty of time to bring up the extra benifit to the environment this shift in technology has made and once people see the difference it would be hard to ever go back to a dirtier world.

The best part of the whole VISION is to find a way to make people feel really good about what they are doing. Few of us like to feel that we spend 40 hours each week helping to destroy the world. That is why the Rush Limbaugh's, the Sean Hannity's and the Bill O'Reilly's have had such a large impact. They tell people that what they are doing is just fine because they are hard working americans and true patriots who are out there just trying to make a living while the evil left attacks them for it. Somehow the RIGHT has found a way to make people feel that it is ok to be selfish and destructive.

Who knows? Maybe it is ok. But what American is satisfied with just OK. We want to be the best. We want to be the leaders of the world. The nation with a vision that others look to with astonishment and admiration not shock and disgust. However, we do not live in a utopian world and the hacks from the right will continue to push their agenda and bring with them a number of followers no matter how great the opposing VISION.

That is ok. Because they would never get close to 50% it we actually found our Voice. I would bet my life on it.

It is time to sart feeling good again. We all need something to feel good about these days. Right and Left. It is much easier to feel good about Creation than it is Destruction. The only reason all this destruction is even allowed is because it is wrapped in a scewed message of false-creation. We humans love to create. This new VISION will not be so hard to pull off. Time to get started.

[MsTryska]

36. Hi Greenbeard...

thanks for posting, and I'm so glad this idea resonates with you and so many other people that have posted in this thread.


And i agree - time to get started - I know part of it is “Each one teach one”, and at least we get a buzz going on the streets and in the trenches – but how do we get the DNC/DLC/Head Dems in charge to adopt something new as opposed to going with more of the same?

[Greenbeard]

39. That is the Big Question

I am a firm believer in the "each one teach one" mentality. Over the course of time the message will get around and usually I am a very patient person. However the times we find ourselve in call for a bit more immediacy I am afraid. So, hmmmmm, how did we get the attention of our leaders quickly, short of becoming the leaders ourselves. Which isn't necessarily a bad idea.

I am not really sure. I think we all need to think long and hard about that one although for some reason I do have faith in Howard Dean sticking to his message and listening to the people. I believe he has his eyes and ears open looking and listening for good ideas. Perhaps we should start with him now that he is in a postion to shape the party.

I also think Barack Obama is a progressive leader out there that may be willing to take this on. He is new to the Senate and could use an issue like this to take more of a presence on the national stage.

So I guess we search for leaders who are willing to take hold of this issue and let them know they have large numbers of people supporting them. Next we search for willing leaders among ourselves and help them out as much as possible. And most importantly each person should continue to teach others around them. For that is often times the most honorable thing to do. Positions of power have an awful tendency of corrupting individuals and leading them away from the heart and sould of issues. It is up to us to not allow that to happen.

[MsTryska]

42. I agree with you.....

perhaps we can write letters?

Howard Dean is a great bet, Robert Kennedy jr - so he can disseminate through his radio show, and political ties - he does have the background after all. Maybe even John Kerry - he can start the drumbeat through the senate.


I'm sorry to say i don't have as much faith in Barack as you do - he has the charisma and he has the qualities to inspire - however, i question the speed with which he joined the "don't rock the boat" establishment.

[MsTryska]

37. And here's another thought - Taxes

how about, as opposed to the standard tax cuts people always expect thanks to dubya and company - we offer tax breaks for early adopters of alternative fuel solutions - i think some are already on the books - but if you are a company you get a tax cut if your fleet has natural gas or hybrid vehicles - or your buy strictly ethanol fuel or whatever.


and if your a regular citizen you get tax break if you drive a car that uses alternative fuel and or your vehicle exceeds emissions standards.



we need to tie patriotism to stewardship of our land and country.

[Terran1212]

38. Not a bad idea...

I do think that Democrats should not forget about foreign policy though. The Republicans and their infinite war will try to accuse the Dems of not "protecting America," or some trash like that.

[MsTryska]

41. Foreign Policy is very important.....

we do have to clean up the mess we've made, but again, running foreign policy through the funnel of "Energy Independence" and you have a strong case for not HAVING to meddle with the Middle East, joining the rest of the world in adopting the Kyoto Protocol, and giving the world the next Great Thing - in terms of technology.

Americans have always been great pioneers - we still come up with the ideas, but then other nations take them up and do them cheaper and more consistently.

[MsTryska]

43. kick for the evening crowd!

:kick: