want illegal immigration curtailed?

[ulysses]

It won't happen until economies throughout Latin America can sustain their people.

First causes, folks. If you want to stem the tide of people looking for a better life here, or at least a little extra money to send the folks back home, then get the multinationals to stop exploiting them where they are now. Getting rid of NAFTA is the first step.

[Selatius]

1. Good luck getting our Democratic leaders on board

Many Democrats in Congress support NAFTA. It could not have been passed without Democrats voting for it to begin with.

The first step is to break the power of corporate money over politics. You cannot help other nations when you can't even control your own government.

[ulysses]

2. yeah, I know.

It's a "New Dem" thing. :puke:

[Selatius]

11. A lot more than the New Dems voted for NAFTA

Check the record. It was passed when both houses of Congress were still Democratic.

[ulysses]

14. I meant who pushed it.

It was "bipartisan", but very much a Clinton goal.

[Selatius]

18. No, it was signed by Bush Sr. at the end of his term, not Clinton

Clinton only signed laws that revised it somewhat, but it still essentially stayed the same.

[ulysses]

22. no - passed in November, 1993, signed in December.

It became law in January, 1994.

[Fenris]

3. Fuck NAFTA...wait until CAFTA passes.

Expanding exploitation.

[ulysses]

5. do you know if they're bringing that up soon?

I know it's been in the air. I need to keep up more...

[Fenris]

9. The administration has been pushing for a CAFTA vote by May

Congressional hearings on CAFTA start April 13th.

[ulysses]

12. thank you!

Time to gear up! :)

[jonnyblitz]

16. this should be interesting when it's brought up in April.( CAFTA)

I will be curious to see what the DEMS do.

[Snotcicles]

20. That, and with a multinational president, the hell with us. n/t

[Cleita]

4. One thing about South America is that it has everything to

become an economic superpower. It has untapped resources, man power, fine and revered educational institutions and everything they need without needing a handout from us ever again. The trick will be to put this in the hands of the people and get it out of the hands of the same overseas mega-corporations, many of them American, and corrupt elitists that have been in charge since the Conquistadors.

[ulysses]

7. well, that

and for us to quit fucking around in their affairs.

[DebJ]

6. sorry, White House is too busy destroying our economy to

worry about anyone South of the Border.

[ulysses]

8. it's not just the GOP. n/t

[DBoon]

10. There may be a progressive Mexican government soon

If the peasants and working class in Mexico had a decent standard of living, they would be less willing to go through the Sonoran desert to work at low paying jobs.

You don't see many Irish immigrating since their economy has improved, do you?

Leaving home to work in a foreign coutry is an act of desparation

[Cleita]

19. No, as a matter-of-fact some Irish Americans are

reconnecting with distant cousins in Ireland and going back to Ireland because the economic opportunities there are looking better than here. My Irish American tax accountant is thinking of sending her soon to be college aged sons there to be educated instead of here. While my Irish born husband was alive, he said he never thought he would live to see this day and then he smiled.

[Democrats_win]

13. Don't forget 1986--the last time the government tried to stop it.

The result: we now have to provide 2 ID's and fill out the I-9 form to get a job, millions of illegal immigrants were given amnesty and now live in America legally, and we still have the same problem.

No matter what your view, the government won't fix this problem.

We might as well make lemonade for their children.

[mitchtv]

15. the answer. JAIL ,&, CONFISCATION for businesses that do

the hiring. The flow will slow down to a manageable level. Like narcotics , interdiction is not the answer, rather take away the freedom and property of those Americans who violate the law.

[ulysses]

17. they'll still come

and they'll still find jobs. First causes.

[PeaceProgProsp]

24. Ohmygod, can we please not criminalize industriousness.

We're democrats. We're supposed to support work and productivity, not criminalize it.

Why don't we support unions and labor rights for all people who work for a living so that they can't be exploited, and can we do it on a civil level, and not a criminal level?

[mitchtv]

27. make laws, then take out the teeth?

industiousness? how about Cheating and hiring foreigners? Your solution is to unionize illegal immigrants? that'll go over big. These people who create the conditions for exploiting foreign labor should be scrutinized meticulously. But don't worry they are all republicans so it will never happen. They like our workers to compete with illegals, brings down wages. Ther only jobs they are doing are ones that can't be exported.Shall we send our workers to Canada?

[Comicstripper]

21. There's a solution that would please both the left and the right:

Force employers to pay the minimum wage to non-citizens. In other words, extend that right, and indeed full citizenship, to immigrants. That way:
a) Immigrants would be treated with respect and would be able to afford to support themselves and their families
and
b) Their will be less "job-stealing" if employers have no incentive to hire them (in other words, they can't be used as cheap labor).

[PeaceProgProsp]

23. Illegal im'gr'tn caused by globalization of capital, but not labor market.

Part of the reason there are exploited people willing to sacrifice so much to come to the US to work for so little (which is still more than they'd get back home) is because globalization of capital has extracted so much wealth from their own countries and sent it to NYC, Houston, Miami and Los Angeles, that the only jobs cleaning homes and offices and building houses are in those cities.

We either need to allow a free labor market so that those people can follow the wealth back to the US (where it's being realized) or we need to stop extracting all the wealth out of those developing countries. And, ideally, we need a balance of both: we need labor markets that are as free as capital markets, and both of them shouldn't be totally free.

[ulysses]

25. kick

:kick:

[ulysses]

26. one more.

:kick:

[Strelnikov_]

28. Deal With Illegal Immigration By Addressing Demand, Not Supply

All the current immigration policy of this country does is create a black market for labor, exploiting those who are here illegally, and driving down the wages and working conditions for legal residents.

What we need a guest worker program to stop the exploitation of immigrants and end the flooding of the labor market due to uncontrolled immigration. Penalties for hiring undocumented workers would be severe. Foreign nationals in this country without proper documentation would be quickly returned to their home country.

Hiring of guest workers by businesses would be coordinated through workforce development (unemployment) offices. These offices would maintain a set of procedures/surveys to verify a shortage of labor in a classification before guest workers could be hired. A wage rate system would have to be maintained to prevent low wages from being used as way to create a labor shortage.

All labor laws, including minimum wage rates and social security payments, would be enforced for guest workers. After participation in the program over time, the guest worker would be eligible for a retirement SS annuity based on what they paid in.

Uncontrolled immigrant labor fills a void that it perpetuates, low wages that make the jobs undesirable due to an oversupply of labor, the classic supply/demand relationship.