American Christianity

[Dez]

I wonder how Christianity in America got so .. severe?? I don't think they have churches so severe in Europe as we have here.. Like the Southern Baptists, and Pentacostal.. does anybody have any views on this?

[trotsky]

1. Separation of church and state

What the Christers don't realize is that principle has made THEM stronger too. Unfortunately, it's also resulted in most people being afraid to criticize religion. Because of that, some have found that if you unite your political and religious views, you'll face less opposition and when you do, you can simply say that your opponent hates God, families, babies, and life itself.

[Zenlitened]

16. "It's my religion" has become a blanket excuse...

... for spouting -- and attempting to legislate -- the most bigoted nonsense imaginable.

Yet, if you criticize religion, you're the bigot suddenly. A charming little catch-22 they've worked up, there. :crazy:

[seabeyond]

17. no, that doesnt have to be

talking below i live this with those that think they are right and will hold up the bible. for the last couple years i have said to so many who know me, well. am i a "good christian" lookin em in the eyes. i can, with all knowledge of who i am, i am right there with them in love. and i have learned enough bible, to be able to talk to them all. not a single on, even a minister way above......has been able to challenge me being a christian. and i dont follow any of the rules that decide who a "good christian" is

so every democrat christian has to declare. speak up. make them pause, make people think. they can do this. we just have to start saying,........i will take you on.

[Freedom_from_Chains]

2. Ultimately, I think it all traces back to the Puritans

of the Mass. Bay Colony.

[etherealtruth]

4. Yeah I think so, too ...

... I don't think they sought "religious tolerance," I think they were seeking to practice their religious beliefs without interference, but were not willing to accept anyone else (or their practices)-----but, hey I'm no historian.

[bryant69]

5. I think more so the conditions that pushed them to the new world

They very quickly defined themselves as the "good Christians" who need to be an example to the Christians back in Europe by being much more stringent and straight then they were. I have a certain amount of respect for the Puritans, but this aspect of what they did has had some definate negative consequences.

In a group of people defined by a belief, it is always easier to move towards a more stringent variation of that belief. It's like gravity. If you are defined by a belief, than someone arguing for moderation sounds weak compared to a person arguing for fanaticism.

Bryant
Check it out --> http://politicalcomment.blogspot.com

[elehhhhna]

8. ...who were so IN YOUR FACE that they were booted from Holland

before they came here.

[chookie]

3. Where it comes from

Look to the wacky Protestant Loyalists of Northern Ireland to find the immediate ancestors of our own wacky Anglo-Celtic Southern extremists.

http://www.democraticunderground.com/discuss/duboard.php?az=show_topic&forum=104&topic_id=3433182

[TreasonousBastard]

6. There is a strong Calvinist tradition that took root here...

largely because Calvinists were generally chased out of Europe.

Calvinists believe in predestination, and the ideas of penance and forgiveness are really pretty foreign to them, since we can do nothing to change our fates. A Calvinist may not know exactly who are the "saved," but will often look at evidence of moral corruption to identify those who most certainly aren't. Such Calvinists are by nature stern, unforgiving, and judgmental.

Catholics, and Protestants closer to their traditions, are big on personal salvation and the ability for one to change and achieve a state of grace. Anyone has the chance to be "saved" and should be given every chance for redemption. The Catholic Church, for all of its faults, is one of the most forgiving of churches in its purest form. It understands that we are far from perfect and will constantly fail in our faith and fall into sin. It gives us the means to repent and make good on those failures.

Most American churches give lip service to the Catholic idea of the possibility of universal salvation, but far too many of them have been influenced by the judgmental attitudes of the Calvinists.

[Dez]

7. I've never heard on Calvinists

It just seems to me that all these religious zealots who are getting involved in politics will be the downfall of this nation.

[TreasonousBastard]

13. Hardly any are called "Calvinists," but many Baptist...

Dutch Reformed, Congregationalist, etc., churches came out of his movement in the 1600's. Others were influenced to varying degreees by him.

For some not terribly light reading:

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Calvinist

is one site that gives a fairly decent history of the movement.

[Dez]

14. Thanks for the link.

I personally believe that religion divides us, as a nation and here on earth.

[seabeyond]

19. church of Calvary

definition, huge ass cross on open land. this place is an old super grocery store. for a church? they have a bus i have been bitching about for a year. sits in front. came down my street last year and i flipped. painted in black. flames. a dove in the flames. grosses me out. always always i say something about that bus

this place scares me, lol lol wink. not afraid. i Can kick their ass in Love. that is what we have to understand these people are weak. working from base of corruption makes them weak

anyway, i wonder about this place. yesterday i saw for the first time a little mini bus. painted in military fatigue colors, gods army bold on side.

my world. lol lol

[RethugAssKicker]

9. Its fake self-righteousness

What do you actually mean by severe. I assume you mean intolerant, sanctimonious, holy than thou..etc..etc.

Well, this can be a very long discussion. But briefly, I think it comes from the self-denying, blame others, ignorant attitude of Americans in general. They used religion (especially in the South) to compensate for their evil doings. Up to today, many will not admit their wrongs for slavery, the Jim Crow era, the eradication of Native Americans..etc....

So, they wrap themselves in a self-righteous religion and a false sense of patriotism in order to make themselves feel good and HOLY. This, they feel will make up for all the shit they give others, especially those of color.... This behavior is most visible in the conservative (Republican) segment of American society.

[Walt Starr]

10. The smae fundamentalist cults exist the world over

since there is a constitutional prohibition against regulating religion in America, they flourish here moreso than elsewhere.

[seabeyond]

11. because they are afraid. they are afraid they are losing

control. losing control in children,losing control in themselves. becasue they start at youngest of age saying i am sinner. eventually self has to create that sinner, (they have learned to hate that sinner, jesus didnt, we arent suppose to, if we do we lose) to make what is coming out of mouth true. because we have walked away from lite, so the ability to see christ words in lite, isnt possible

too many are spinning out of control.

[Dez]

12. They all think THEY are the cosen ones

I knew a woman from Texas that said she is a 'true' christian. I guess she thought 'true' christianity began in Texas.. pretty amazing how self centered they are down there.

[seabeyond]

15. lol lol that is where i am. funny you. where i learned fundie 101

hadnt experienced it at all living all over west coast. i knew catholics.

this is what i am saying their fear. do you know how afraid these people are. they are praying all the friggin time. fundie school, for my boys, oldest having huge issue with school. spiritual issue 4th grade.

they know me, i know them. sittin for a conference with three teachers. they are beautiful, full of love, full of want, they pray and pray and pray for the best in talking about son. i on the other hand just have faith and know the best is always given and available in all situations. and as a mom of this boy, 9 years i know, we can do in love each and everytime

we pray

we pray that we have the ability to be able to help son in love

pray? we pray? for that, like the best may not happen. we all know. we all know we are going to exactly do it in love. i already know and have faith

dress code for kids, i told principle, what i see. you guys are so afraid and dont trust your youth, you dont trust the parents. have more faith. i have been here forever. so many, by far, are excellent parents, excellent child and the ones that need help, all we have to do is chat. we all want the same. you dont trust them. you are afraid they are going to take the wrong path.......that isnt faith. they dont give the opportunity to people, to do what is right. people dont trust in their own ability, why they need so many rules. i would rather at least wait and see if i need to implement rule. i prefer a person chose

cause i have faith. i am not afraid. not afraid in my ability nor my fellow man

[theboss]

18. They! They! They! They! They!

Every thread about religion here eventually treats Christians like some strange creatures in a zoo.

[seabeyond]

20. right now they are but that is ok

yes. this is what i ask "them"

see the show they are putting on. like a bunch of children. yup

[havocmom]

21. Is it easier to get mental health care in other nations?

Seems many of the extreme cases here show the same behaviors as delusionals. If you suggest their version of the truth is not the only way of seeing things, they tend to get pretty forceful about making you adopt their reality.