Why do we need a pope? Is it only tradition?

[Selatius]

At the end of the day, it's just me and God. Pope John Paul II had some great issues he fought for and some, well, let's just say "controversial."

I don't deny his impact on the world, but isn't it up to individual people using reason and free will to decide what path they will walk in life? Does the pope fall between you and God? Why the need for a middle man? Is he supposed to be some middle man? Or just a really high "advisor" to your soul? If he is just there in an advisory role, how is his stance any better than the stances you take after thinking things through? Does he know the absolute truth and you don't?

Isn't he ultimately just a person like you and me? No better than you yet no worse than you but rather equal to you?

[Name removed]

1. Deleted message

Message removed by moderator. Click here to review the message board rules.

[BeatleBoot]

2. Ultimately he was a person just like you and me

And he would tell you so, face-to-face.

He wasn't standing between anyone and God.

He was just a simple shepherd saying, "go this way".

And I'm a bad Catholic.

[Igel]

3. There are usually (at least) two points from which to view a particular

set of beliefs or traditions.

The first is from outside. To the extent I look at Catholicism from the outside, I'm in at least partial agreement with you. I'm not a Catholic, so while I may think a given pope is good or bad, on the whole, the whole 'vicar of Christ' business leaves me cold.

The second is from inside. If you're a (more or less traditional) Catholic, the pope is the representative of Christ on earth, the man responsible for shepherding God's flock, and who God set in charge of his flock. He is responsible for guiding the Christian to worship God, and to maintain the integrity of the institution that is to shelter and nurture God's chosen. He may do it well; he may do it poorly; but if you honor God, you honor the servant he's set up.

[tanyev]

4. That's kind of the point of the Reformation.

[The Whiskey Priest]

5. Without a Pope who would ride in the Pope-mobile?

See the logic for having a Pope?

[DulceDecorum]

6. Traditions are important to many.

have you SEEN the resistance to replacing Christmas with Festivus?

[Mz Pip]

7. It is what it is.

IT's part of a centuries long tradition.

Groups like to have "heads." Heads of churches, heads of state, heads of tribes, heads of corporations, heads of families. There is probably some cultural anthropology at work here that goes way back.

Mz Pip
:dem:

[Al-CIAda]

8. Hero worship? Why do we need Benny Hinn? Robert Tilton, etc?

People need a 'leader' to tell them what to do, how to think, etc...even though Christ layed it all out.

[DemGirl7]

15. Yeah, even if the leaders are fake like those like Benny Hinn.

At least the Pope wasn't making a ton of money off of the fake crap that like Benny Hinn and the majority of those on Tv like pull. You didn't see the Pope claiming he could work miracles and telling losers at home that they could help with miracles, if they call in and pledge $50 for those miracle to take place.

[adwon]

20. This is a false argument

If Catholics needed someone to think for them, the reforms of Vatican II would not have been made. Allowing the Mass in the local language and the printing of the Bible in those same languages was intended to bring about a more complete participation in the celebration.

Also, your comment rests on an incorrect assumption. There is no such thing as a complete iconoclast.

[EFerrari]

9. Is this the forum most useful for your questiion?

Just asking.

:)

[oscar111]

12. Silence is not useful, his question is useful in any forum eom

[EFerrari]

13. I see you didn't answer my question, although I addressed yours

very fully on another thread.

What's up with that? :)

[hootinholler]

10. Because if there wasn't a pope...

Anyone, even Sun Yung Moon could claim infallability.

Oh, wait a min, Ok, never mind.

-Hoot

[kiraboo]

11. When I was considering returning to the Church, the priest I was

working with gave me a book to study. It was called "Why Be Catholic?" and I regret to say that it turned me off. Anyhow, one of the top reasons posited for joining was simply that: Tradition. The Catholic Church is the original Church, etc. etc. Personally I find this to be a non-reason, because the tradition of the Catholic Church leaves something to be desired. However it appears that tradition is a very important element in Catholicism as it is in most religions and indeed in most peoples' lives. So the Office of the Pope represents continuity from the past to the present. He also establishes a general line of thinking during his tenure, keeping the followers on track as it were. The one thing Catholics don't like is to see splintering of their Church because in their view it weakens it. I agree (although I really don't care). Just like we democrats seem to be floundering now for lack of leadership, the Church might waver in its principles without strong leadership of a Pope.

[Bridget Burke]

14. "We" don't need a Pope

But it's a Catholic tradition. Check out about 2000 years of history if you have questions.

[tjdee]

16. Protestants agree with you....

I think we've yet to get a current Catholic's opinion on the matter.

I'm a Protestant, I don't see any reason for the pope. As someone said, that's kind of the reason for Martin Luther nailing his ideas to the church door and the entire Reformation.

[scottty]

17. You probably don't

if your not Catholic.

[Zynx]

18. As a Catholic I even say no, we don't need one.

It is interesting and can be enlightening to see the theological thoughts that come out of one, but we don't need one.

[adwon]

19. One practical reason

High churches (hierarchical) are more resistant to demogoguery than low churches (nonhierarchical). In the 1930s, the Vatican was able to pull the plug on Father Coughlin, a Catholic priest with a radio show that he used to promote the introduction of fascism in the United States. There is no one to do the same for either Falwell or Robertson.

The beauty of the hierarchical tradition, when not abused, is that provides an orderly means of resolving disputes and effecting action.

This tradition is why we see a few nutbag priests running around but not large, organized Catholic movements like the Christian Coalition. The hierarchical structure prevents anyone, even the pope to an extent, from hijacking the entire church.

[amazona]

21. you sound like a protestant

We don't need popes. Welcome to the club.

The Catholics see it differently, and I respect that. But those of us who believe that "individual people using reason and free will to decide what path they will walk" can find many other Christian denominations to join.

It takes all kinds.

The conservation movement is a breeding ground of communists
and other subversives. We intend to clean them out,
even if it means rounding up every birdwatcher in the country.
--John Mitchell, US Attorney General 1969-72

[jdj]

22. people have to give away their power.

they can't stand the responsibility of thinking for themselves.

and there's always some megalomaniac asswipe standing around ready to be the figurehead they need.

[NYC2099]

23. Catholics have a pope / monarchy because that is how Jesus wanted it....

Jesus tested 3 forms of government for his church :

1st: democracy - he asked 'who do people say that I am'. The reply was Elija (sp) or reincarnation of John the Baptist. Democracy was no good since you get the wrong answer and the wrong people (like GWB as president)

2nd: Aristocracy - he asked the 12 apostles 'who do YOU (12) say that I am?' They looked at each other with no agreed conclusion. No good.

3rd : Monarchy, a single head - 1 man steps forward to speak for everyone 'filled with the spirit' and replys 'you are the Christ, Son of the living God'. Christ replys that 'you are the rock, and upon this rock I will build my church.' Hence where the tradition starts of pope's. St. Peter being the first. After all my years of going to Catholic school, I actually remember something!!!