why does the Pope have the U.S. flag lowered at half staff

[still_one]

when was the last time we lowered the flag at half staff for a non-American head of state?

[tuvor]

1. The Pope didn't have it done.

george w bush declared it so. (Sorry, I'm being a pedantic dink.)

Anyone remember if Carter did something similar the last time a Pope died?

Love the pug avatar, by the way. Is he yours?

[Sannum]

2. It is a sign of respect.

We should have had it done after the Tsunami.

[still_one]

4. No it isn't

It was done for one reason only, and that was for Catholic votes

He got the Catholic vote in 2004, but having the church tell their flock that gay marriage was worse than Iraq

[Sannum]

7. I meant in general.

And since when is Bush not pandering?

[still_one]

9. ok

[oscar111]

11. Never do it. Respect is a sign of authoritarianism

It is an emotion that suppresses the healthiest thing ==

Question all.

Rene Decarte .. about 17OO.. started out with "i doubt everything, even that i exist".

That cleared the way for science. It still clears away mountains of untruth left over from the pages of history.

Respect, and you will be made a victim of ripoffs. Question, and you will help get us a better world.

Never forget Enron, the respected giant, the biggest in its field. Respect?

Respect brings danger.

[Al-CIAda]

21. Here is what our Founding Fathers wrote about Bible-based Christianity

Here is what our Founding Fathers wrote about Bible-based Christianity:

Thomas Jefferson:
I have examined all the known superstitions of the world, and I do not find in our particular superstition of Christianity one redeeming feature. They are all alike founded on fables and mythology. Millions of innocent men, women and children, since the introduction of Christianity, have been burnt, tortured, fined and imprisoned. What has been the effect of this coercion? To make one half the world fools and the other half hypocrites; to support roguery and error all over the earth.
SIX HISTORIC AMERICANS,
by John E. Remsburg, letter to William Short

Jefferson again:
Christianity...(has become) the most perverted system that ever shone on man. ...Rogueries, absurdities and untruths were perpetrated upon the teachings of Jesus by a large band of dupes and importers led by Paul, the first great corrupter of the teaching of Jesus.

More Jefferson:
The clergy converted the simple teachings of Jesus into an engine for enslaving mankind and adulterated by artificial constructions into a contrivance to filch wealth and power to themselves...these clergy, in fact, constitute the real Anti-Christ.

Jefferson's word for the Bible?
Dunghill.

John Adams:
Where do we find a precept in the Bible for Creeds, Confessions, Doctrines and Oaths, and whole carloads of other trumpery that we find religion encumbered with in these days?

Also Adams:
The doctrine of the divinity of Jesus is made a convenient cover for absurdity.
Adams signed the Treaty of Tripoli. Article 11 states:
The Government of the United States is not in any sense founded on the Christian religion.

Here's Thomas Paine:
I would not dare to so dishonor my Creator God by attaching His name to that book (the Bible).
Among the most detestable villains in history, you could not find one worse than Moses. Here is an order, attributed to 'God' to butcher the boys, to massacre the mothers and to debauch and rape the daughters. I would not dare so dishonor my Creator's name by (attaching) it to this filthy book (the Bible).
It is the duty of every true Deist to vindicate the moral justice of God against the evils of the Bible.
Accustom a people to believe that priests and clergy can forgive sins...and you will have sins in abundance.
The Christian church has set up a religion of pomp and revenue in pretended imitation of a person (Jesus) who lived a life of poverty.

Finally let's hear from James Madison:
What influence in fact have Christian ecclesiastical establishments had on civil society? In many instances they have been upholding the thrones of political tyranny. In no instance have they been seen as the guardians of the liberties of the people. Rulers who wished to subvert the public liberty have found in the clergy convenient auxiliaries. A just government, instituted to secure and perpetuate liberty, does not need the clergy.
Madison objected to state-supported chaplains in Congress and to the exemption of churches from taxation. He wrote:
Religion and government will both exist in greater purity, the less they are mixed together.

These founding fathers were a reflection of the American population. Having escaped from the state-established religions of Europe, only 7% of the people in the 13 colonies belonged to a church when the Declaration of Independence was signed.

http://www.postfun.com/pfp/worbois.html

[TheModernTerrorist]

23. which reminds me of a joke....

Descartes walks into a bar and sits down. The bartender approaches him and asks "The usual?" whereas Descartes replies "I think not", and then *poof* he was gone.


...don't think about it too hard, it's a silly philosophy joke. :-)

[stopbush]

3. Bush is setting the precedent so he can lower it when Falwell croaks.

All part of the Rovian plan...

[Tweed]

12. Falwell isn't a head of state

[LdyGuique]

5. I don't remember it ever happening; however, I'm trying

to remember other foreign heads of state who died in office during my lifetime --
hmmmm

Gandhi
Nehru
Mao
Stalin

I don't believe that Federal American flags were flown at half-staff for any foreign head-of-state -- this would appear to be more blatant sucking up to Christians

[Piperay]

27. Winston Churchill

I think they did it for him, been along time ago and I was just a kid.

[Counciltucky]

6. I'd lower it to half-staff for Mitch Hedberg.

I'll miss that dude a lot more than I'll miss the pope. And I'm Catholic.

[tedzbear]

8. One upmanship with Ronnie.

His funeral will be LONGER and more IMPORTANT than Ronnie's.

[Erika]

13. Excuse me. The Pope wanted nothing to do with our

attack on Iraq. Our pre-emptive strikes were 100% against the Golden Rule.

[still_one]

17. right, but many Catholic churches in this country

were telling their congregation that it would be wrong to vote for someone who approved of a woman's right to choose

The church also said homosexuallity was evil

[tabasco]

10. Why not?

It is an act of respect and AFAIK in accordance with all protocols.

Of course Bush doesnt have the right intentions but it is nevertheless an appropriate gesture.

Let's not be like the reich-wing & Clinton and criticize every little thing Shrub does, just because he is Shrub. Let's focus on the big things Bush has fucked up. Plenty of material there.

[still_one]

14. The reason I think it is significant is because it hasn't been done before

that is for a NON-AMERICAN

Frankly, the Catholic church's position on birth control makes them indirectly responsible for all the abortions, and spread of STDs in third world Catholic countries.

In addition, the terrible cover up of the child molestations within the curch leaves a very bad taste

[Erika]

16. What are you talking about Clinton?

Clinton and GWHB have become great friends.

[Nite Owl]

15. I don't know when the last time

was but it is valid to do this:

By order of the President, the flag shall be flown at half-staff upon the death of principal figures of the United States Government and the Governor of a State, territory, or possession, as a mark of respect to their memory. In the event of the death of other officials or foreign dignitaries, the flag is to be displayed at half-staff according to Presidential instructions or orders, or in accordance with recognized customs or practices not inconsistent with law.



http://www.ushistory.org/betsy/flagetiq.html

[still_one]

18. true, but very unusual

[jeffreyi]

32. I heard on the radio...

not sure if this is accurate, but here goes. The Vatican is supposedly a sovereign state; the USA has diplomatic relations w/ the Vatican and assigns an Ambassidor (1st one was Henry Cabot Lodge, under Nixon) Therefore the protocol of lowering the flag to half-mast for a deceased head of state apparently can be legit, at the discretion of the Pres.

[Al-CIAda]

19. His approval is at 43% and he is doing his false christian routine for

propaganda purposes...when our founding fathers would have SHOT any man of US leadership who would do such a thing.

[still_one]

20. what lynn samuels said was very sad but true:

"even if he had an approval of 0% he would still be the f**king president"

[Al-CIAda]

22. True, but he needs to manufacture concent to push through hie UNGODLY

agenda.

I refer to these quotes by our founders and state again, our founding fathers would have SHOT, not just challenged to a dual, but flat out SHOT ANY official who would have done any such thing for any religious leader, ESPECIALLY the Pope!

http://www.postfun.com/pfp/worbois.html

[still_one]

26. great link

[JVS]

24. To pander to Catholic voters, duh

[Boo Boo]

25. Bush is just doing is jive schtick

Appeals to religiosity are his stock in trade. Doesn't mean a damn thing. Bush, I am quite sure, is a fatalist and doesn't believe in anything---not even science. His professions of Christian belief strike me as being little more than a cover story.

I think that Rove, DeLay, et al have gone off the Res with this whole Schiavo, "Culture of Life" thing. They tried mightily to keep the Culture War below the radar during the election, now they're over-playing their hand.

They know they have to motivate The Base (al Qaeda in Arabic :-)) for the midterms, but they're hitting bad notes and I think they're getting desperate to hit a good one.

I'm sure the Pope seems like a slam dunk.

[Al-CIAda]

28. kick

[0007]

29. What does it hurt? Or what does it matter?

[Al-CIAda]

30. Um, see above....read, learn, become educated -or not. n/t

[mainer]

31. Damn well better lower it for the Dalai Lama, then!

when he goes.

Bush has set the precedent for religious leaders to be so honored.