I'm done with the Democratic party.

[Deja Q]

Today's Newsweek (March 21 2005 issue, pg 7), while also bashing Bush (wrapping himself up as being FDR re: social security despite trying to destroy it) and the media (ignoring the dollar, trade, real issue in favor of Jacko and baseball steroids nonsense) has also said of the Dems that "the so-called 'party of the people' can't even help out cancer patients with their bills'.

And they're right. Politics is a JOKE that services to divide the people while the consitutants within do nothing but attack and insult each other while licking the nasty bits of the highest corporate bidder; the Dems are no different in that respect and that's the one that counts the most, let's get real.

Give me a party where the people work together to forge solid relationships - even with the Corporate sect - and I'm there. That's the only type of Centrist I give a damn about. One where people will work toward something and not fling feces at one another.

It ain't Dems. Nor repubs. Nor Greens, election 2002 with two-faced McGaa proved that. I'm tired of labels too.

The subject line is half-true, meant to get away from the masses of idiot Shiavo posts.

I would still consider myself pro-society and maybe left-wing if the Corporate sect chooses to remain selfish and greedy, which is immoral and unethical. (who knows, the falling dollar might prompt goods to be made in the US where employers will hire people at living wages because foreigners will spend the extra money, yeah I'll dream on) But Dem I am not. And voting I will not. Not until there is a candidate worth voting for, I only see the same-old game playing and I refuse to waste my time.

[pelagius]

1. Its proper name is the "Democratic Party"...

...although most wingnuts do refer to it as the "Democrat Party".

Sorry to see you go!

On edit: Thanks for correcting your post!

[Name removed]

11. Deleted message

Message removed by moderator. Click here to review the message board rules.

[pelagius]

17. To be precisely clear -- I have not and will not call...

...you any names nor threaten you in any way. Please extend me the same courtesy to me. Thank you.

[HEyHEY]

39. What's wrong, can't take a little name calling?

Or threats of violence... huh, gonna cry? Huh? HUh?

[Dookus]

44. LOL

[Catherine Vincent]

57. Shame on you Dookus.

"I just think congratulating childish personal attacks is uncalled for. It's against the rules, and it's just downright disrespectful."--Dookus

[pelagius]

61. I can not only take it, I can dish it out double...

...but showing restraint is a sign of strength, not weakness.

You might want to keep in mind that you're unaware of the contents of the deleted message and may not see the full picutre.

[Tandalayo_Scheisskopf]

2. Tell me something:

What kind of cancer-patient relief bill can the dems introduce and even get slotted for consideration by committee, in the house or the senate?

[lastliberalintexas]

10. I assumed he was talking about the bakruptcy bill

Considering that the vast majority of bankruptcies in this country are filed by people who are dealing with medical debt, I made that leap, anyway. And there were way too many Dems who voted for that monstrosity.

[Deja Q]

13. Yup. Lots of "Democrats" had no qualms signing it. And

The last 4 years had lots of DUers getting angry at the Dems. I don't see why I am getting flamed for merely doing what the Dem party must want us to do!!!

[Tandalayo_Scheisskopf]

19. Who flamed you?

Certainly not me.

[seabeyond]

3. if we had elected kerry, he was going to actually work on health care

crisis. go figure. we have repug. and the whole healthcare/insurance racket is fucking us good

blame the democrats

that'll do it

[FreedomAngel82]

34. You forgot

Blame Clinton too. :eyes:

[LittleClarkie]

38. Circular firing squad in position!

Ready... aim... fire!

Eh, let em go. We need positive energy, not negative, anyway. We'll be a smaller, but stronger band of patriots for it.

[fob]

4. "...two-faced McGaa proved that. I'm tired of labels too"

Me too, those no-good piece-of-shit repukes just plain suck. Fuckers.

:evilgrin:

[Lone Pawn]

5. Have fun enabling the right-wingers.

You wanna sit back and watch things go to hell? You want to PROVE to the Dems that they can't win the hardleft because we're too purist and remove their last incentive to act liberal? Okay, sure. But don't think it won't be your fault when the Republicans drive this nation into the dirt.

[Deja Q]

15. Didn't you read my message? Both parties are the same:

In terms of being bought by the highest paying contributor. Having special power means more than working in the best interests of us all, which was what the CONSTITUTION was SUPPOSED to be for.

Look at recent events, like the Bankruptcy bill. There are many others as well where the Dems gave the repukes a carte blanche.

Sorry, but I'm too depressed. It seems to make no difference when people with a "D" in their name act like an "R" and say "me too, mommy!"

[Lone Pawn]

23. Both parties are NOT the same. The Dems lack any power because

they don't have the seats in congress and don't have the white house. They can't do anything. But do you REALLY think that the terrible war in Iraq would have happened had Al Gore won the presidency and had the Democrats retained the Senate? Do you REALLY think that ANWR would have happened with Al Gore as president? Do you REALLY think that we would have had massive tax cuts and a massive deficit? Do you REALLY think Democrats would have pulled this Schiavo shit? Do you REALLY think this big brother shit would be going down under a Gore administration? Do you REALLY think that Democrats would be working to dismantle your social security and sending your paycheck to Wall Street?

I'm sorry if you don't want to face it, but the Republicans are worse than the Democrats. Democrats don't make things much better, but Republicans make things much worse. And if you don't fight that, things are going to get much worse, and you'll be more to blame than any freeper.

Freepers are deluded. They think they're doing the right thing. In 30 years, they'll say, "We always tried to do what was best for America, but nobody knew what would happen."

You'll only be able to say, "I knew what would happen, but I did nothing to stop it."

[LittleClarkie]

59. It's really an ivory tower way of looking at things

It reminds me of one of the far left's publications, I think the article was called "A dime's worth of difference" in relation to Kerry and Bush. It's an exaggeration to say that there is no difference because SOME Democrats are voting with the Republicans. SOME Democrats are too close to being Republicans, but that doesn't mean that we should throw out the baby with the bathwater so to speak.

That would discount the work of some pretty good people like Barbara Boxer, Kusinich, Kerry, Feingold, Kennedy, and several others. There are pretty corrupt. I'd say Biden is one of those. Some are misguided all to hell but meaning well. That would be Joementum.

It's a purity test. Sadly, if a third party ever crawled up to the level where they were also a player in the political game, you'd see that party slowly start to get corrupted too. Money does that. Power does that. When you're standing on the fringes, it's easy to lob spitballs rather than look for the good in what is admittedly a flawed party.

It's a negative energy we don't need. I'm supporting positive action, I don't care from who. And I'm staying put. Like I said before, I only just got here.

[TheWraith]

6. So the solution, of course, is to have a temper tantrum.

Abandon all hope of change, and sit there proclaiming the unclean evilness of everything and everyone. There are words for this. Hubris, self-rightousness, and extremism all come to mind. So does the phrase Cassandra Complex.

There's a reason that attitudes like this never prevail in politics. You know why? Because you'll never get anything done if you refuse to try. Please, feel free to take your toys and go home.

[Carolab]

7. Shame on you. We have a WONDERFUL, STRONG new Chair.

We need to support him.

[Deja Q]

16. Howard Dean. Maybe you're right. I'm just confused right now.

Even my Dem union won't back me on a case... while not entirely related, it's one of a sequence of events that has left me empty of loyalty. They ate it all up and shit on me in return, as have they to us all in sufficient form or another.

I hope Dean repairs the damage.

[Carolab]

26. Dean can't do it alone, as he always says!

We need to support him by supporting the DNC.

[tigereye]

54. Dean was busy in Philly the other night

taking Santorum to task. I think some Dems are going to come out swinging. It's still worth the fight.

[Selatius]

8. The Democratic Party at the head has become awfully corrupt

Or extremely incompetent. After pretty much half the senate Democrats voted for the bankruptcy bill, I was and still am pissed off, and I have been pissed off for quite a time before that, especially when it comes to free trade. In my mind, the voting results for the bankruptcy bill helped to illuminate how well corporate interests are buying out the Democrats in government.

If it gets to the point where Democratic primaries have only candidates who've taken so much corporate cash as to become compromised, what's the point? You still get screwed. You just get screwed more slowly.

[LdyGuique]

9. I understand perfectly -- the current state of outrage that we all

live with is causing our personalities to deteriorate and our mental health to suffer. The longer one stays current on a wide variety of issues, the more stress it layers onto one.

HypnoToad -- I, too, have issues with the 2-party system. Most of it has been bought and paid for by either Corporations or various groups designed to funnel money into campaigns (most of that is RW).

However, I feel that at no time during the past several decades is it more important to tune in and become active "somewhere" in the political arena. Maybe, the whole damned thing IS too much. However, there must be a place where one can be an advocate without taking on the entire burden and get away from the shrillness.

The Millennium Ecosystem Assessment reports bring this home so poignantly. The Synthesis Reports bring this home clearly -- and not all have been published yet. Find something that you can do that doesn't cloud your mind with the bile and disenchantment of fellow disgusted citizens.

I wish you well on your mental health and healing -- it's becoming a struggle for many of us.

[FreedomAngel82]

42. I know what you mean

I've tried to stay out of everything but I'm afraid if I do stay out I'd miss something important that could help my family and I.

[Az]

12. You are missing the problem: Restore the freepress to its job

The Dems are politically and ideologically paralyzed because the press has failed in its job. There are not 3 branches of Government. The press is a vital component of our system. And with its corruption at the hands of the Corporations and the Right they have been able to coopt the press.

There will be no strong Dem candidate until we can restore the press. Anyone that shows any signs of strength they will be evicerated long before they pose any threat to the right's machine.

Fight. Fight to make a difference. Recognise the real problems we face. Giving up is what the right and the corporations want.

[Deja Q]

18. THANK YOU ALSO FOR CONTRIBUTING AND NOT FLAMING.

so many have automatically branded me a freeper by now, if not put me on Ignore for life eternal.

And you are right about the core problem - the press. As many people, on both sides, feel the same on many issues, it's a matter of having a truly free press...

[CitySky]

22. cute how you changed your avatar in the middle of all this

I feel like we're at a table having a discussion, and you just put on a sly smile.

[Ladyhawk]

36. A lot of people feel the same way you do.

Many of our elected Dems are acting like Republicans. Why people are ignoring this fact simply to flame you, I don't know. Sigh.

Something has to be done about it, obviously. But I'm too damn poor to contribute money and too damn sick to contribute time.

In case the rest of you have been too busy to notice, HypnoToad has had some serious health issues, too. In that situation, you feel rather helpless. It would be nice if you would discuss the situation civilly.

Mike Malloy has very publicly expressed his doubts about the Democratic Party. I tend to agree with him. We either have to revive our dying donkey or create a new party. At this point, I think it's best to give Howard Dean a shot. Creating something from scratch will take too long.

I wish I were a billionaire. I'd raise this donkey from the dead.

[LittleClarkie]

14. 'K. Bye.

As for me, I just got here.

I intend to be part of the solution.

Just sitting there would drive me nuts.

Loud and Proud:

I AM A DEMOCRAT.

[Name removed]

21. Deleted message

Message removed by moderator. Click here to review the message board rules.

[Lone Pawn]

24. My problem isn't your 'toeing the line.' We need internal dissent.

My problem is your leaving the party and the movement, and saying you won't even vote for the only party that has a chance in hell to do so much as SLOW the Republicans.

[LittleClarkie]

28. You don't know me, and you don't know what I do.

Meanwhile, back at the ranch... Freeper? Who accused you of being a freeper? Not me.

I just stated my intention, is all. I'm staying and I'm supporting whatever positive action I see coming out of what is essentially the only other game in town.

If you wish to bow out of that realm, that's up to you. But if you're leaving, and I'm staying, then it seems only right to wave bye bye to ye. :hi: Bye bye.

I feel pretty good about what I'm doing. I hope you will feel the same.

[CitySky]

20. newsweek's low blow

"the so-called 'party of the people' can't even help out cancer patients with their bills'."

As other posters have noted, the 'party of the people' can do about jack squat while Republicans hold majorities of both houses AND the WH. Newsweek's juvenile jab doesn't deserve the weight you have given it.

That being said, I agree that a lot of the "Dems" in Congress don't really represent The People either. That's why I think it's smartest to work from WITHIN the Democratic Party in my own state to transform it into something better. I'm also getting involved with independent media. BE the media!

Good luck to you, either way! :hi:

www.democracynow.org

[LittleClarkie]

29. Why is it we only believe that rag when they say something

that fits what we want to believe. Any other day of the week, it's RW-leaning and to be taken with a grain of salt.

They certainly like to snark at Democrats, that's for sure.

Btw, I agree. Best way to fix the party is to stay in it and try and make a difference from within.

[zbdent]

25. Okay, on the National level, what's the viable alternative?

I mean, the MSM has been trying to say that the Democratic party has less capability to gain control than the Pope does of lasting another 10 years.

So, on a national level, what alternative is really there to knock out the Repukes? The best shot went down with Perot, and that was a joke.

A third party has to gain significant numbers of seats in the House and Senate, plus make a good showing on the state & local levels.

But where do you get the money that drives it these days? Unless the Schiavo thing really sends the wingnuts away from the Repugs to an extreme Right candidate, they're still going to have the money.

When either the Dems or Repukes start getting third-party numbers, it's going to end up as a 2-party system, like it or not.

Right now, as bad as they seem to suck, the best bet to get a Repuke out of control is a Dem. At least on the national level.

Reality is, those voting Repuke hold their noses as much, maybe more than we do when we vote Dem.

And I feel that the Dems are more likely to represent what the real people need, at least until the Repukes are but a bad memory, and the Whatever party is the 2nd candidate in the debate.

As the MSM is now, the Dems will be pounded into the ground unless something really kills the Reps. And Schiavo might have been the wedge.

[CitySky]

35. friend, they are not even close to "mainstream"

Why dignify the propaganda machine with that name?

Here's a really thoughtful timely blog on the topic:
http://brainsandeggs.blogspot.com/2005/03/independent-media-in-time-of-war.html
We need to throw our support behind the truly independent media like Democracy Now! and Pacifica.

Personally, I call those other guys the Corporate Media. Saw someone else here earlier today refer to them as the CONs: Corporate Owned News!

Peace,

Sky

[Name removed]

27. Deleted message

Message removed by moderator. Click here to review the message board rules.

[LittleClarkie]

30. The Dems can't get anything done

because they're not the freakin' majority. That's what needs to be changed. And we won't change it by not being involved, agreed.

[DancingBear]

31. "Don't let the bastards get you down"

Fight 'em.

Every time a DINO like Lieberman kisses Bush's ass, kick his.

In Connecticut, they're talking about running a real Dem against him in the primary. Who knows if it will succeed, but it's a start.

Remember the Joe Biden's, who knuckled under big-time to the credit card folks. Remember the two Senators from Hawaii who took a quid pro quo from Ted Stevens in order to rape Alaska. Support those who may wish to run against them in the primaries - financially if you can, by voice and pen if you can't.

Work with Dean, in the hopes that he will bring his spirit for a real America back to the Democratic Party. Support the truly patriotic work of John Conyers, Barbara Boxer, and the rest of the core of REAL Democrats who are fighting to save us all. Listen to Wes Clark, as he criss crosses America and shows us all, one by one, that Democrats love this country to a degree that Republicans can not even comprehend.

And most of all, my friend, remember what can happen if we don't stay involved.

His name is George W. Bush, and he is truly a monster.

[Lone Pawn]

37. Don't fight Akaka.

He's one of the best Democrats we've got. One bad vote doesn't kill him.

[WilliamPitt]

32. I wrote an essay in 2002 called 'Ronin Democrat'

or something to that effect, because I was so fucking fed up with the limp noodles on the left side of the aisle. Jefords jumped and we had the Senate, but Lieberman killed the Enron investigation because he'd taken so much of their money. The entire 2002 Democratic midterm campaign was conducted in full reverse. Daschle couldn't get out of first gear. The IWR, the Patriot Act, the Homeland Security bill protecting thermiosal manufacturers causing autism. Etc. The cowardice of that time is a goodly reason why we have so much trouble now.

But we have Dean in the chair, and I am pleasantly surprised with Reid. Kerry is about to go Full Ballistic on the filibuster thing, and the GOP just blew their own balls off with this Schiavo thing. Most of the country is looking at these guys now like they have three heads.

It is not a good time, but it has been a lot worse. Consider: The GOP owns the whole government, but can still not avoid blowing it on SS and a number of other issues.

Hang tight, don't close any doors you might want to open later. Vent, work, do what you can. We're in the tunnel, and I don't see the light at the other end. But it's there. I have to believe that.

[Ladyhawk]

40. Yeah, I'm willing to give the Dems the benefit of the doubt for now.

At one point, I was ready to dump them, too. I, too, see rays of hope, even though we're in deep shit.

[FreedomAngel82]

47. I'm with you

Things get dark all the time in our lives. If you give up then they've won. I'm a new democrat but I love this party way too much to give up on it. This is the people's party. The party of responisbility, compassion for others, and we have the moral values and know it. The key is to remember that you can't just snap your fingers. It takes time. Things are slowly happening as Mr. Pitt said. If you want to give up: fine. Goodbye and leave. You don't have to make a show about it. If you really want to change things you have to do like Mr. Dean said and start locally and with grassroots. If your town is having any elections and you know a democrat is running go and show up at the opening house and say hello and ask how you can help if you have the time. Even if you don't have time to campaign for them you can probably help with other things like phone banking. Nobody ever said it's easy.

[K-W]

33. Good job making things worse.

Funny how you can think you are making the moral choice in doing so.

I dont know why you expect the democratic party to become some kind of utopian social organization... but if you werent silly enough to expect it to be anything more than an American political party, you wouldnt have the frustrations you have now.

Fine, start a new party and fail, or by the stroke of luck, succeed, only to grow and become exactly like the democratic party.

Meanwhile, people who actually understand our system will realize that they can form organizations that arent parties, because our system simply doesnt accomidate a bunch of parties.

What are people's obsession with parties anyway? We need grassroots organization, not another political structure.

[QC]

41. Oh my, a Dramatic Exit Thread.

How very....

[LittleClarkie]

43. Bingo

A DU DQ DE.

Oh, what fun.

[QC]

49. I might be moved had I not already seen hundreds of these.

Hard to get excited about them anymore.

[LittleClarkie]

52. Or to cough up the obligitory:

"Oh no, don't go. We NEED you. What have we DONE."

If a person spends any amount of time on the internets at all, then you do indeed get to see hundreds of dramatic exits.

It's an internets thing.

[UTUSN]

45. A Party of One, Eh? At Least There'll Never Be Quorum Problems. n/t

[LittleClarkie]

46. Maybe the Party of One and the Army of One could go bowling sometime

If they both survive, that is.

[chlamor]

48. Slavish adherence to any Party

doctrine limits your overall vision. I applaud your sentiments and as a matter of practice both parties are bought and sold. There are rather large differences though and that seems true especially in the House and on the local level.

Some would argue that all politics is an obfuscation. Politics in America is so ugly-constrained-limiting and grotesque. ultimately the problems are of an economic/eco-logical nature and neither party is going to renounce capitalism and bring about a Green Economy. But you and like minded individuals can. Party politics can be a real energy sink but there will always be slightly more room to maneuver with Democrats. Still not enough which leaves us with the problem of aiming too low.

[noiretextatique]

50. you are not alone in your criticism

as you well know. i am not a democratic party cheerleader, nor do i excuse their COWARDICE in allowing the first election to be stolen...clearly that was a huge mistake, one that america and the world will pay for a long time to come.
as to what to do now...there is little choice in the matter, as we all well know...that's why i voted for kerry. there is no other viable option, and there won't be for some time to come. if it helps you feel better, you can do what i did...join the green party. i work and vote for greens locally, and democrats nationally.

[applegrove]

51. DU is not the Democratic Party. Try reading up on what the party

leaders are doing. Not fair to imply that this place is the only incarnation. It is not.

Too bad you were not a democrat long enough to notice something called 'a big tent'. It is as old as the hills that the democrats come together as a group at election time but have disparate expectations the rest of the time. Called a plurality & is how democracies work.

[solinvictus]

53. Default Party Setting..

I must agree that the notion of a supporting a default party simply because it's not the one in power is losing appeal with me daily. Dean is a breath of fresh air and perhaps lackluster candidate Kerry will become a firebrand in the Senate, but on the whole it looks bad. The bankruptcy legislation was the worst sell-out of the American people since NAFTA/GATT/WTO. The fact that ANY Democrat would vote for it shows the problems of corporate money within our own party.

[cry baby]

55. No flaming from me, but I hope you don't complain when the country

goes to hell in a handbasket. Maybe you should run for office, you're smart, dedicated to the service of people, etc. Get into the game and fix things - make others see the light.

[solinvictus]

56. "Goes to hell in a handbasket"???

How much bigger can the basket get? I can understand some of the disgust with the national party, particularly our DINO senators who are corporate shills.

[cry baby]

58. I understand,too - and the basket is getting pretty f*cking big!

But it's still better to get involved in some way (and for whatever left-wing affiliation he wishes) than it is to check out.

I, for one, don't think Hypno will ever be able to "do nothing" again. He's too smart and sensitive. Maybe he's just in a bad mood and looking at the mountain up close.

[Lexingtonian]

60. wow, almost 20,000 posts...

and still not clear on what the fighting is really about.

Yes, you are a Socialist at heart. But these times are ones where economic issues are secondary to social ones- as proven time and again by the 'wedge issue'.

I've seen a lot of your posts, all of which are marked by a denial that the era where Democrats were the party of domestic policy and workers, Republicans the party of international affairs and corporations is at an end. Those straightforward definitions held up through the Cold War, even if they became ever less true between 1964 and 1989. These days the Parties are still partially these things, but since the Eighties there have been additions/transformation- Democrats have had to become the party of Modernity, and this because Republicans became the party of pre-Modernity.

Modernity involves breaking up the American social caste system. The socioeconomic class pyramid will remain, it's the ethnic/religious divisions and gender-based partitions and subordinations within it that are in the process of getting broken up and forcing a resorting. I hate to have to tell you this bluntly, but you are simply not going to see economic inequalities fixed before the social inequalities are settled. Corporations benefit from this, but it's the people with the small but relative privilege they selfishly and vainly don't want lost- your average Church Lady, your paranoid gun owner- who, when they can be gotten to respond to 'wedge issue' advertising, prevent the reorganizing of rights and laws so that the average person gets treated with fairness and equality and generosity.

You can still run directly against the Corporations and refuse to see that things like the accepted demonizing of gay marriage, ex-felon/parolee/probationer vote disenfranchisement, and the mythology as well as toleration of mistreating Iraq as a hostile Indian reservation from which the 9/11/01 'raid' occurred are the true props of the present oppressive and exploitation-dedicated regime. These are the sort of things that keep them the support of swing voters and enable the screwing up of marginal elections in swing states.

Democrats are doing, and going to do, the necessary work of breaking down these painful stupidity-based supports. (Sure, it's not pretty and not done all that knowingly or deliberately.) In that sense, in your refusal to accept that this is the work that really needs doing before the balance of power can change, you consistently have not been a Democrat nor made the effort to be one. I don't, and most people here don't, find anything particularly objectionable about your Socialism. But folks like myself look at your running criticisms and attempts to convert us to your views- your proselytizing- and then look out at the reality of the political landscape, at the work that needs to be done before the issues that you are dedicated to become of primary importance to the people who actually decide elections. You will be preaching a long time, and when the time comes at which your grievances are addressed it will be because folks like us worked to clear away and settle all those issues that swing voters insisted on dealing with earlier than those.

The People is slow to change its ways and thinking. Once it does, it does so forever. But it does so a few disjointed issues at a time, and stalls until some settlement is reached until truly going on to the next ones. That is why ideologues and idealists and one issue people never get very far in their aims.