I've lived under a dozen presidents.

[trof]

Roosevelt, Truman, Eisenhower, Kennedy, Johnson, Nixon, Ford, Carter, Reagan, G. H. W. Bush , Clinton, G. W. Bush.

Most I liked OK, a few I didn't.
I never remember a president fearing the people he was supposed to lead.
Not until now.

I just finished reading Will Pitt's "George W. Bush, the frightened man" at truthout.org
http://forum.truthout.org/blog/story/2005/3/31/94949/7464
and now the pieces fall into place.

Attendance at "town hall" pep rallies (touted to the media as "open to the public") by ticket only. Known Democrats need not apply. Even people who might have traveled to the meeting in a car with a bumper sticker that questions Bush policies are threatened with arrest if they don't immediately leave. These "open to the public" meetings suddenly become "private gatherings...by invitation only".

And arrest by whom? These "undesirables" are lead to believe they are talking to Secret Service agents, however a spokesman for the service disclaims any such action on their part. Our administration tries to pass all this off as actions of "overzealous staffers/advance people". Of course their hands are lily white and they have no idea who these nameless staffers might be.
I believe this is known in some circles as the run-around.

I can remember presidents who actually relished the give and take of a good political debate. Men who understood that a good idea might actually come from the opposition. Truman and Kennedy come to mind, and even Bush the elder.

I don't know what's happened to our country that we now have in office a president who can not stand to hear opposing views of any kind. Does his political grip on the nation hang by such a slender thread that any opposition at all threatens it? I guess that's a rhetorical question.

Anyway...this is not the country I was born in. Not the one I grew up in. Not the one I lived in for my 59 years prior to the year 2000. And it's not a country that I like very much now.

My congressman, Josiah Bonner (R-AL) has invited me to leave if I don't like it. "That's the great thing about this country, if you don't like it you can leave." http://www.al.com/news/mobileregister/index.ssf?/base/news/1112004965157380.xml

Sorry, Jo. I ain't leavin'. I'm hanging in to try and fix this mess. And if I can't do that, then I'll just stay here to be a thorn in your side, a pebble in your shoe, and a burr under your saddle.

<disclaimer: I didn't post this in GD Politics, because it's not about politics. It's about a president who fears his people.>

[CO Liberal]

1. From Truman to Dubya, I've Lived Under 10 Presidents and an Idiot

:-)

[trof]

5. OK, 11.

;-)

[Carolab]

8. I've lived under 10 presidents and one fraud. n/t

[mopaul]

2. you're one up on me, born under truman

jeez what a codger. they come and they go, but dubya is the dumbest and worstest of them all

[trof]

7. NOT a codger! I am officially a "GEEZER".

It's in my contract.
You could look it up.
;-)

[ayeshahaqqiqa]

3. Truman was a man

I was born during his term. He was a President I admire, not because I agree with everything he did, but because he took responsibility for his actions. And when he signed up for the military, he didn't go AWOL.

Do you think it would be worth it to complain to my repuke conman about the Bush meetings not being open to the likes of me?

[FreedomAngel82]

21. It'd be worthless I think

They're a cult and it's like a country club and a hippie showing up at a country club. What it reminds me of. A bunch of rich folk sitting around yappin about nothing.

[Selteri]

4. I'm a youngin'

I was born under the Ford Presidency's final year... though I'm not sure I really consider him a president since he wasn't elected...

same thing I feel about with GWB, he's no president, he's a chimp in a suit.

[FreedomAngel82]

22. I was born under

Reagan. So I'm pretty young. :)

[whistle]

6. As frightened as Mussolini, Stalin, Hitler and every other....

...demogogue, because George 'Dubya' Bush knows what and who he really is. He is also frightened of his own death.

[babylonsister]

9. It's got to be his dumbness!

He's afraid to respond to honest bipartisan questions because he's so unable to express himself, which is proved almost on a daily basis. Plus, he knows those of us with brains who don't march in lockstep won't accept with or agree with his explanations. It drives me mad that he's even allowed to have town hall pep rallies by invitation only. He's a uniter?:crazy:

[doublethink]

10. You older fellas ....

have a lot of wisdom us younger fellas could learn from. And though I feel compelled to post in this thread, I think I will wait and hear you all out for awhile. Keep talking please. :)

[LibraLiz1973]

11. That's better than BEING under one

lol

[trof]

12. Welcome to DU.

:hi:

[Emops]

13. I've lived under 4 presidents

And only one good one.

Six Canadian Prime Ministers, and only three British PMs.

[seabeyond]

14. if you don't like it you can leave."

a mere 5 years ago, we would all be outraged if a politician said this to the citizens of these united states, regardless of the party. all being tax payers, contributors of this society

we simply allow so much today. where is the outrage

[FreedomAngel82]

23. Just wait until

we have the country back again. Then we can tell them "if you don't like it you can leave." I'd like to tell that to the people who tell me to leave and move to France. :eyes: So immature.

[Greylyn58]

15. I've lived under 10 Presidents

Eisenhower, Kennedy, Johnson, Nixon, Ford, Carter, Reagan, Bush-1, Clinton, and finally Bush 2 although I Bush 2 was never legally elected either time...

And like you I can't say I recognize this country any more and I truly fear for where the US is headed if we lose any more seats in our Congress.

[stevedeshazer]

16. Then you must remember reasonable Republicans

In the post-Joe McCarthy era, many Republicans were good people that you could feel good about voting for. Ones that were willing to reach across party lines to further the good of the nation as a whole.

Even Nixon signed off on environmental protection.

My Republican governor came to my little town to light a candle for peace during the Viet Nam War.

My Republican Senator helped lead the fight against the war that President Johnson escalated.

If the younger readers of this thread take away just one thing from a thread like this, it's that the divisiveness has reached an unprecedented level, and to fix it, the Republican Party needs to repair its own problems, because it has been highjacked by a band of ideological war-mongers.

[FreedomAngel82]

24. Yep

The republican party has been hijacked by "Christian" extremist and neocons. The real republicans are good people in general they just our like us and outnumbered and they have a lot of immature and uninformed paid shrill loud mouths.

[PATRICK]

33. To this and #16

Our Democrats were great people too even during the Vietnam War but most danced to the monstrosity. Why that exception? Boil away the complications and call it circling the wagons around the power. The GOP down to its most liberal or moderate decent people WANT to enjoy the pre-eminence of success and power, want even to LIKE Bush. Trying to work themselves to become dissatisfied or even speak finds them continually and ineffectually deflected from true purpose like gravity bends light too near a strong source. The ruthless circus carries own with a sneer at the rube audience.

I am not too impressed by the repentant and disgruntled in either party. What has been exposed is the fundamental moral weakness of character that collapses under a severe Test and a long proud tradition of unhealthy compromises. No one can be holier than though except fantatics in fantasyland anymore. So lo, the ascendancy of fanatics in fantasyland. Thank God they stand for palpable lies and against the majority and commons sense. In these times there is to be no getting by or schlumping back into comfortable seats. The illusions are gone. The crises are universal, mortal and growing.

The defenders and profiteers of illusion however are everywhere in positions of control and leadership. Like peeling away an onion core after core when we get past all the failures of human nature in our generations you will get to the sad plutocrats of the Bushco inner circle and then- nothing.

[Lisa]

17. a Canadian weighing in ...

I've only been around since LBJ's time, but I can't recall a time when Canadians have been as apprehensive (and embarrassed on your behalf) about a US leader.

The caricature of an imperialistic US wanting to invade us for our resources is part of our cultural underpinnings -- and most of us up here are able to joke about it, believing it's improbable (or at least, a takeover would be done by flourishing big wads of cash, rather than guns).

We always thought of the US President as someone who could at least appear to be dignified and diplomatic. LBJ and Nixon might have disliked their Canadian counterparts but they'd be gruffly polite in public. Even leftist Canadians who viewed Reagan as militaristic didn't think he was mean-spirited and vindictive. If anything did happen to us, we figured it'd be because he forgot we were here and pressed the wrong button or something.

We saw a fair bit of his father (those fishing trips with our PM, for example) and there are plenty of people here who tolerated or even liked George the Elder, but his son is something different. Here is the most powerful guy on the planet, acting as if he's not the most powerful guy on the planet -- instead, he's insecure. He gets bent out of shape over minor issues. The spectacle of him teasing an American reporter because the guy upstaged him by speaking French in France -- bizarre. Arrogance is one thing (our leaders have it too) -- but arrogance mixed with panic is a strange combination.

Our politicians are creeped out -- even many right-wingers are trying to distance themselves from Bush. Our moderates are used to knuckling under, but the very fact that they've started saying "no" is interesting. It's not just the Canadian public pressuring them, and even with the minority government I don't think it's because the leftist NDP is twisting their arms.

There is something scary about this administration -- trof summed up the warning signs nicely. A lot of Canadians have noticed that there is real ugliness behind the shiny expensive media facade. I can't recall a US leader, even Nixon, who made us frightened and upset to this extent. Maybe it's because we've been a colony so long ... we only started to get used to the concept of being free, within my lifetime ... and so many of us came here from other places that were experiencing bad times. He smells like a dictator, and all the perfumes sprinkled on him by FOX News don't cover it up.

The vast majority of Canadians visit the US frequently enough, or have American friends or relatives, that we really believe Americans are good people (or else why would he have to deceive you so?). Evidently we trust you more than Mr. Bush does, because he seems to want you to be conform to his notion of The Perfect Citizen (tm) or else he doesn't even want to look at you.

[FreedomAngel82]

25. To know the real Bush

all you have to do is watch the debates from this past year. That shows his real side. In 2000 it was all a show and a bunch of crap from being well rehearsed. This time, I think, he wasn't able to rehearse and put on a whole fake personality. He's showing his real colors a lot more since Iraq.

[trof]

29. Excellent reply. Thanks.

[Spike from MN]

34. Back during the Reagan era

some comedian offered a simple solution for our skyrocketing deficit: mug Canada. It was funny at the time but we're not laughing anymore. That "caricature of an imperialistic US" that Lisa referred to is no longer a caricature. It's reality. And unfortunately with rigged elections from here on out I don't see that changing anytime soon.

While I applaud those that want to stay here and fight, I'm seriously considering moving to Canada. Those of you that are older or retired have Social Security, pension plans, and Medicare. I have been paying it to those plans for years but by the time I retire, they will most likely be gone and I will be royally screwed. I'd rather get out while I can and start paying into the Canadian systems because those will still be around when I retire. Unless of course Jeb decides to invade Canada in which case all bets are off. ;)

Hats off to those of you who have seen so many presidents come and go. I'm guessing some of those were probably even legitimately elected. ;)

[PsN2Wind]

18. I too have lived during the time of twelve presidents

The only one I saw in person was Ike. I was stationed at NAS North Island, Ca when Ike flew in there for a California visit. I was one of 3,000 sidebuoys that lined the route he took from the airfield to the Quay wall gate. We were just told to show up in "whites" at the area we were assigned but no one frisked us for firearms or asked our political leanings. But then a lot of people "Liked Ike" so he had much less to fear.

[MichiganVote]

19. 9 presidents and 1 traitor, George W. Bush

[sinkingfeeling]

20. I was born when Truman was president and couldn't agree with

you more. I certainly didn't like Ronnie, because of his deregulation and back-breaking debt. I totally ignored George I. Loved Clinton because he was young, energetic, and just has a magnetic draw (have met him twice). I was disappointed in the sexual affair, but said, "Hey, he's a powerful and great looking guy, and it didn't impact his presidential duties."

I have always thought of myself as an activist even though I worked for a Fortune 500 corporation for 30 years. I worked alot in the 70's with the women's movement, ERA, NOW, and lead the fight to have my company boycott South America. Was involved in the Viet Nam Peace movement and am probably one of the few people in the country that protested against the first Iraqi War (Desert Storm).

I consider myself middle class...I made just under $100k before I 'retired'. Now I have another position which brings in about 60% of that and a life-time (until they can weasel out of it) pension. Yet, I have never felt so much pressure! I raised by son (now 35) on my own from the time he was 11 months old. I did not have child care tax credits or child credits either. I always paid my taxes and didn't complain even though I was surrounded by co-workers who did every thing they could to pay zero. I thought it was part of being American... paying my fair share. I have lived in 7 states and been in
all but Alaska. I loved my country.

Now I feel like a stranger. I work at an university and taught a class last year as a guest instructor. It was a shock...couldn't believe this kids were seniors in college. They lacked critical thinking skills, but could certainly recite the GOP/RW line. The cheating and 'anything for a dollar' motto of our corporations, the lack of ethnics, and the self-righteous fundamentalists are driving me nuts.

I had my life planned out. Wait until I was 62 and then really retire. Take my Social Security early. Sell my Victorian home at a great profit and move to Donegal, Ireland. Now it's all in shatters. The
plunging dollar, the possible demise of SS, the Corporations sacking
retiree health care and maybe the pension, and the world's hostility
towards the US.... I just don't know if I can make it through the next 4 years and with the election fraud, it maybe forever.

[NJCher]

35. if it's of any consolance

There's the immigrant student. This student is totally different from the usual U.S. student. With ties to another country, they know full well how controlled the U.S. media is. They can cite story after story that was reported differently here than in their home country.

Furthermore, they do have critical thinking skills and they are not afraid to work.


Cher

[LdyGuique]

26. I, too, was born during FDR's final term in office; however, I

really don't remember him :)

One of the things that GWB is missing by preaching to the choir is that he cannot make any converts. He's essentially written off the entire opposition and doesn't understand why his ratings keep sliding downwards. In this case, Rove is wrong -- the same old soundbites become meaningless without debate. He thinks it's a clever way of getting nightly coverage without having to pay for ads.

Of course, Rove also recognizes that there are a range of issues that would suddenly start showing up as questions during these meetings. Nixon fought severe heckling as his 2nd campaign went around the country -- frequently causing the entire event to devolve into shouting matches that definitely diluted his appearance.

I'm not so sure that it's fear for his life as much as recognizing that he cannot answer questions "off the cuff" effectively. He has more stupid answers than anyone since Quayle.

[scarletlib]

27. thank you for a great post

it's how i feel too

[BlueIris]

31. YES! Great post. And here's to sticking with the party,

I still believe in it.

[kskiska]

28. I've been here for 12, too

and, sitting on someone's shoulders, I even remember seeing Harry Truman pass through town on his whistlestop campaign tour.

I've never known a president to run and hide from the populace as this one has.

[Stirk]

30. That fear is also why they're so ludicrously secretive.

Governments most often classify information to keep it from their own populations- not their international enemies. The Bush Administration has been absolutely insane about classifying information. They classify everything.

[darkism]

32. I've lived under 3 presidents and an illegally-appointed cokehead

Oh how I wish I had lived through the era of real democracy in action like some of you.

[Window]

36. Same here, a dozen.

Lord my bones are aching...it's raining here.

[Cooley Hurd]

37. Not even his father had the balls to restrict access...

...to his pep rallies.

Democracy is a dirty word to the coward-in-chief (unless he's speaking of countries-to-be-invaded).:mad:

[12345]

38. For those with more perspective, (I've lived under 5 presidents,

but really have a good sense of what was going on under the last 2), is this an unusual presidency? I keep wondering if I have been blind to the corruption and cronyism of government, or is this just the most blatantly depraved administration ever?

[H2O Man]

39. I'm curious

what is the context of Congressman Josiah Bonner's statement? It bothers me to read something like that. Perhaps it is the result of sitting awake since 3:50 am, with my lower back confirming that there is indeed rain in today's forecast. Maybe I am too tired and sore to find humor in an elected representative saying something that fucking stupid and insulting. But I'd like to know the context, so that I can discuss it with his henesty the congressman, or one of his employees.
I thank you in advance, on both my own and my families' behalf. They prefer that I have an appropriate target on these days.

[salin]

41. bothered me, tremendously, as well...

used to be said - the great thing about this country is one can voice dissent. And can voice dissent against the dissent. There was nothing about "if you don't agree - leave". Imagine what would have happened if the Loyalists had taken that hard line. Or if Adams had taken that line (no TJ presidency as he would have had to leave... the two had very different views on democracy and the country after all.)

[H2O Man]

45. It is one of

the most ignorant things a person can say. It should disqualify him from holding any office other than "inmate."

[DemonFighterLives]

40. Thanks for all the history lessons

Sadly it doesn't take much history to realize that W doesn't belong with the rest of those names.
I was born under Ike, but my first memories are of JFK's murder. And in my mind the same bunch who was guilty of his assassination are holding power to this day. It has all been very sad especially these b*sh years. We never seem to be told the truth on anything anymore.
These stupid town hall meetings pushing a terrible policy at taxpayers expense are just a sham to keep the war criminals from being frogmarched away.
I cannot believe that the lousy intelligence that led to war is officially coming out. Of course w and Colin were too stupid to know what most of us already knew and went ahead and lied to the American people. W had poor intelligence from the day he was born or else it was the coke and boozin that did it.
Carter was probably the best pres. with Clinton also up there.

[libhill]

42. He's not a President - he's a Dictator.

And I always laugh when I hear these assholes telling people to leave if they don't like Bush. Hey - they didn't like Clinton, right? Tell them to fuckin leave.

[Enraged_Ape]

43. He's not a Dictator, just a Dick

Bush fantasizes that he is a dictator. In reality, he's just a dumb, frightened little douchebag who does exactly what Karl and Dick and Condi tell him to do.

[0007]

44. Roosevelt was in office one year and then I was born. (1933)

So I've seen twelve also. junior is the worst of them all. Then Nixon.

I sure as fuck don't want to see the next twelve.

[Daphne08]

46. I've lived under 11 Presidents and every day I wonder...

Where is my country?

[HughBeaumont]

47. 6 Presidents and one PresentDunce.

I think the last reasonable Repub president was Eisenhower. Sure, he wasn't great, but at least he knew the meaning of fiscal responsibility.