If the Pope dies DU is going to erupt into religious warfare

[bluestateguy]

I dread it. It's going to last for days.

I would just remind those who are already setting up to trash the Pope or cheer on his death that many DUers are Catholic and take their faith seriously. I don't agree with everything the Pope has said or done, but I think he is a good man who deserves our respect.

[mattclearing]

1. Nice self-fulfilling prophecy. n/t

[onager]

6. You got that right

I'd also like to point out that we may have some old-line Bolsheviks lurking here, so please don't say anything bad about Stalin.

[mattclearing]

17. Actually, I think the trash-talking will only last for a few hours.

It's the cardinal primary season wars that will go on long after the next Vicar is anointed.

[ArkDem]

33. A little help for you..............

vic·ar ( P ) Pronunciation Key (vkr)
n. Abbr. Vic.

1. The priest of a parish in the Church of England who receives a stipend or salary but does not receive the tithes of a parish.
2. A cleric in charge of a chapel in the Episcopal Church of the United States.
3. A cleric acting in the place of a rector or bishop in the Anglican Communion generally.
4. Roman Catholic Church. A priest who acts for or represents another, often higher-ranking member of the clergy.

[mattclearing]

35. Yes, but the Pope is commonly referred to as the Vicar of Christ.

Christ is higher up than the Pope in the Catholic Church, right?

:eyes:

[ArkDem]

40. I have never heard a Catholic or Priest ever refer to the Pope as

vicar. I've been in the church for 55 years.

[Dookus]

58. Nonetheless

the Pope is often called the Vicar of Christ, or more precisely, the Vicar of the Son of God (Vicarius Filii Dei).

There is disagreement about whether the term applies to any Pope, or if it was rightly applied only to St. Peter.

[Cooley Hurd]

2. Well, if that happens...

...it's God's will.:evilgrin:

[Name removed]

3. Deleted message

Message removed by moderator. Click here to review the message board rules.

[alphadog]

37. Wow

Replace "religous" with "gay" and you wouldn't dare say it on the board. How about a little respect for the man who, at the very least, freed Poland, helped bring down the Berlin Wall, and took what many believe to be the ethical stance on Iraq?

[Dark]

41. The problem is

that the has spent his last days fighting gays' right to marry. He's done a lot of good things, but they've been overshadowed by the priest scandal and their simulatneous condemnation of homosexuality.

I have many things I'd like to say about the man. He has done a lot of good, but also a lot of evil.

[Tux]

48. And

Promotes unwanted pregnantcies, hates gays, and it helping to set up theocratic laws in MI.

[jonnyblitz]

57. your "replace religious with gay" comment is ridiculous

a persons orientation is NOT the same as a religious choice. the pope CHOSE to head and promote an oppressive, bigoted belief system. how nice he champions a few good causes. Mussolini made the trains run on time. :shrug:

I have no interesting in yelling with joy about his death but I am not going to let ludicrous comments like yours go unchallenged.

[leftofthedial]

66. but I didn't say "gay," did I?

that's because gay people aren't religious nutjobs. They're gay. Replace my ass with your face and I would use kleenex instead of toilet paper. You can't exchange one word for another and expect the meaning to stay the same.

Ascribing the events, other than his stance on Iraq, to him is unjustified.

I hope he goes in peace.

You should also ratchet up the sensitivity on your sarcasm detectors just a w-e-e-e-e bit.

[Media_Lies_Daily]

79. You give the Poop way too much credit when you talk about his....

...alleged involvement with Poland's change of government, and the bringing down of the Berlin Wall.

[TankLV]

104. Why - he spent his last years demonizing gay persons instead of keeping

his trap shut and made life miserable and dangerous for millions.

The only thing I can almost be sure of, is that he truly cares for others besides himself. He truly believes what he is doing is for the betterment of mankind, and not for a single moment is he doing anything for his own personal gain or out of selfishness or hatred like bunkerboy or most if not all repukes.

But...

He kept his mouth shut when he should have chastized those idiot bishops for trashing Kerry.

He not only kept his mouth shut, but actively hid pedophiles in his own fucking house!

Yeah he may have done a few good things - just like the pedophile priests he hid.

I won't waste my breath on wishing him anything or my energy dwelling on his "passing".

Nor will I ever forgive him for causing me personal misery and leaving the church I grew up in because they consider me a "sinner". That is THEIR problem, not mine! I am perfect just the way I and millions of others like me are!

But I will not sit still while some choose to excuse an organization that is corrupt and has caused misery for untold millions.

[Hobarticus]

4. Snazzy little feature called "Hide Thread", try it out...eom

[ClintonTyree]

5. No............

it isn't. There are a few who'll rejoice in another's misery, but the vast majority will withhold snarky remarks, I'm sure.

[rniel]

7. oh i doubt it

That is not an american political issue.

[tubbacheez]

I'm a DUer and I'm not gonna be warring with anybody here.

Not over religion, anyway. :)

[jarab]

20. Good choice. Nor will I. (eom)

...O...

[johnaries]

65. me neither. n/t

[izzie]

8. What are you thinking.? I think we all will be sad this man will die

Looks to me like he has been a pretty good man all his life.

[jonnyblitz]

15. I wouldn't count on that. nt

[Walt Starr]

9. 1,000,000,000,000 : 1 any trash talking of the Pope

will be met with a tombstone.

Count on it.

I don't agree with the man on a lot, but I won't be dancing on his grave. He was the best Pope in history and although that doesn't say a lot from my viewpoint, it says one helluva lot from the world's standpoint.

[sui generis]

18. the pope got into our political process in 2002 and 2004

and tried to influence all catholics everywhere to vote for candidates who would agree to not only resist same sex marriage but also to remove non-discrimination protections already in place.

I don't give a shit what so called "good" he has done for anyone else, but on my scale I'm glad he's on his way outta here.

So please. Do what you must, but I will be "dancing on his grave", whatever the hell that means.

I doubt I'll be met with a tombstone for having this opinion - in fact I'd wager right back.

[Zenlitened]

32. The catholic church has, for many years, led the charge...

... aghainst gay and lesbian civil rights in Massachusetts. Against anything resembling basic dignity for gay and lesbian citizens.

Anything that disrupts this dangerous power structure is fine by me.

[Tux]

50. Now in MI

Gays can be denied medical care if thier doctor is Catholic. So much for representing Jesus.

[ultraist]

94. exactly. Should we FORGET ...

the call to all Catholics and other anti choicers to NOT vote for Kerry? Some churches were denying their members communion if they were going to vote for Kerry. WTF?

Sorry, hiding behind supposed "Godliness" and "faith" does not exempt one or an institution from critique.

[MissB]

27. I'm sure the mods will be paying close attention

I'm to the point where I have little tolerance for religion bashing, and I'm an atheist. There is a flip side to that as well.

It'll all smooth out in a few weeks, until the next outrage episode.

[Walt Starr]

31. Yeah, but if we move on to Falwell dying

it could get ugly for a while.

:scared:

[Clark2008]

51. As an American Catholic (lapsed), I also agree that the current

Pope was the best Pope in history.
I may not agree with his stances on abortion (I am pro-life, personally, but pro-choice, politically), but he was not hypocritical - he always defended life from abortion, to war to the death penalty to Schiavo. He was constant.
He is a good man - even if he is a bit too removed from the real problems facing the Church.

[Dookus]

60. The best in history?

I find that hard to believe.

The American church is in tatters over the draconian policies regarding abortion and birth control, as well as the role of women.

He has attacked gay people around the world by calling us part of a system of evil.

He denies the use of condoms EVEN FOR PEOPLE WITH HIV!

He opposes Liberation Theology - one of the few GOOD political movements the church has come up with.

There are millions of people who were born, suffered and died because the church won't support any reasonable measure of family planning.

He is one of the most conservative popes in modern times, and one of the most powerful conservative forces on the planet.

But he spoke out against the war, so he's OK? Hell, so did I. So did Robert Novak. So what?

[lastliberalintexas]

74. Dookus, my friend

that was a fine post. You very simply and in plain, non-inflammatory language laid out only some of the facts concerning this Pope's awful legacy, and I hope others here will think about these things before saying this man was mostly a force for good. And you didn't even mention the pedophile priests and the Church's sheltering of same on his watch.

Unfortunately, this Pope will likely be replaced by the far right nut job Ratzenberger (?) who does a disservice to Christians everywhere by claiming to be one of them. Who knows- there may actually come a day when we think of him in fond terms, compared to what follows him.

[Dookus]

77. yes

I purposely left out his active role in sheltering pedophiles, because it seems to send people over the edge when the subject is raised.

There is plenty to dislike about this pope aside from that horror.

[WillowTree]

86. Thanks for "leaving it out".

[Media_Lies_Daily]

82. Excellent post, Dookus! Well done!

[dhinojosa]

114. Dookus, can you name me a pope that is better than this one?

We are talking about popes, and yes he is the best in history.

I will bet you $10.00 that you will never find a pope in the history books that has:

*advocated abortion and birth control
*advocated gay relationships and marriage
*advocated condom use

Cmon, Dookus, your hate is consuming you. John Paul II wasn't everything to everyone, but in the context of papal history, he was the best. Perhaps the next one will bring something that you are looking for.

[Dookus]

115. What hate have you seen me express in this thread?

None. I have stuck to discussions of policy. You're being overly-sensitive, and I find that one of the least-attractive attributes of the religious. They can't separate criticism of policy from personal assault.

I do not intend to compare this pope to other popes, but I would argue that John XXIII was more progressive. It's not a matter of individual policies -it's a matter of DIRECTION. John XXIII and Paul VI, to a similar degree, were focused on moving the church forward. I don't believe this pope has done the same. He is conservative by ANY standards - even most Catholic observers would agree that he has been very conservative.

As posted elsewhere in this thread, FDR was a progressive, even though he didn't support gay marriage. It's a matter of how one acts in in his environment and his times, not the past. If that were the case, Reagan would be a progressive compared to Jefferson, because Reagan did not support slavery.


on edit: I'm sorry, it was in another thread I made the FDR analogy. Nonetheless, I have expressed no hate here, and pretending that any criticism equals hate is silly, and demeans any REAL protestations of religious hatred.

[tedzbear]

118. Hitler was the best dictator in history but does THAT make him...

...acceptable? No way!

:nopity: for the pope.

[denverbill]

52. I'm with you Walt.

I'm agnostic, and pretty anti-organized-religion, and I disagree with the Pope on many, many issues.

However, nobody who has watched him over the years could fail to recognize his genuineness and true faith. He takes the positions he takes because he truly believes they are the positions Jesus would want him to take, not because taking the positions will make him popular or win him votes or make him money.

There is an ENORMOUS difference between Jerry Falwell and the Pope. The Pope I respect and admire despite my disagreements with his beliefs. I don't know how Falwell can even call himself a Christian, and my disdain for him is off the radar.

[ultraist]

95. uh huh...

"However, nobody who has watched him over the years could fail to recognize his" ANTI GAY and ANTI WOMEN'S RIGHTS grandstanding.

Nor, could we "fail to recognize" his instruction to NOT VOTE FOR KERRY.

[jonnyblitz]

10. you know how human nature is. the more threads there are

telling people how they should or shouldn't react, the louder they will lash back in defiance. :shrug:

[patdem]

11. IF the Pope dies...why, you think he may NEVER die?

You want a flame war...you got one!

[expatriot]

12. i don't see DUers"cheering" his death, critical of media coverage yes

I mean I will be one of those if it gets out of hand, I guess... the fundies will try to make it a great "Values" coup... while forgetting that he was an outspoken critic of the Iraq war and capital punishment.

[Zenlitened]

13. "... he is a good man who deserves our respect..."

Um, do I have the right to state simply that I vehemently disagree?

:shrug:


(edit typo)

[Medium Baby Jesus]

25. Yes you do

And I'll be right there with you

[jonnyblitz]

46. I vehemently disgree also.

:thumbsup:

[dand]

55. Me too.

[onager]

92. Ditto!

n/t

[donco6]

97. I don't respect him.

And he doesn't deserve it.

[immoderate]

14. Nothing like getting a head start.

--IMM

[whistle]

16. Well than, let's break the ice right now.....

Pope John Paul II was greatly loved by all of his followers, a man who led with gentleness, faith, and wisdom. His passing was grieved by the entire world, Catholic or not.

As Pope John Paul II approached the gates of heaven, it was Saint Peter who greeted him in a firm embrace. "Welcome your holiness, your dedication and unselfishness in serving your fellow man during your life has earned you great stature in heaven. You may pass through the gates without delay and are granted free access to all parts of heaven."

"You are also granted an open door policy and may at your own discretion meet with any heavenly leader, including the Father without prior appointment."

"Is there anything which your holiness desires?"

"Well, yes," the Pope replied. "I have often pondered some of the mysteries which have puzzled and confounded theologians through the ages. Are there perhaps any transcripts which recorded the actual conversations between God and the prophets of old? I would love to see what was actually said, without the dimming of memories over time."

Saint Peter immediately ushered the Pope to the heavenly library and explained how to retrieve the various documents. The Pope was thrilled and settled down to review the history of 'man's' relationship with God. Two years later a scream of anguish pierced the stacks of the library.

Immediately several of the Saints and Angels came running. There they found Pope John Paul II pointing to a single word on a parchment, repeating over and over, "There's an 'R', there's an 'R'--it reads 'celibRate' not 'celibate'!"--

[Walt Starr]

22. ROFLMPAO!!!!!

:spray:

:applause:

:rofl:
:rofl:
:rofl:
:rofl:

[sui generis]

23. good one

you pope hater!

:evilgrin:

we all need to lighten up a bit.

[_TJ_]

19. Well I was raised Catholic too

But I think the Poop is a right-wing tosspot :D

[incapsulated]

42. I have to agree

I'm not saying anything when he goes, because I can't think of anything nice to say.

Oh, he's made some anti-war and other statements I liked. But this has been a activist papacy dominated my a very conservative Pope.

I'm not saying I'll be "happy he's dead", but I will be glad his papacy is over and hope the Church takes the opportunity to move it's course in a more moderate direction.

[_TJ_]

53. Apparantly he's made sure that all the guys in contention

to replace him are all just as conservative. We will see (perhaps
quite soon!).

[incapsulated]

59. I know it's twisted...

But I've been really anticipating a possible fight within the Vatican over this.

Will they choose the old guy as a place-keeper until they choose a "permanent" replacement? Will they go right or left? Will he be Italian?

Papal transitions haven't happened often in my lifetime, what with John Paul being so young and living so long.

[_TJ_]

61. If the Catholic church ever liberalised...

...my jaw would remain on the floor for a month. :wow:

I might even start going to mass again :evilgrin:

[Cuban_Liberal]

21. I can only hope not.

:shrug:

[shelley806]

24. Are you serious? I hope that this isn't the case. I love the Pope,

have never been Catholic (Protestant if I label myself anything) and I disagree with so much of what he believes in (not so much in a religious sense, but political social issues that he takes to be God's Plan, as interpreted by him.) His beliefs about abortion are compatible with his belief in capital punishment and war, so I don't mind his opinion on abortion so much. (Personally I believe that society should not dictate what people do with their bodies) And he is consistent; unlike the so called pro lifers who support the death penalty, are pro guns and pro war. My MAJOR problem with this Pope is his stance on birth control...why he should advocate "Replenish the Earth" even in over-populated areas where people are starving to death...I think that is inhumane and cruel. (Also it's always bugged me that these celibate people tell others how to reproduce!! I mean what gall!)

I hadn't realized how educated and intelligent he is until recently.

[Renew Deal]

26. Dean for Pope!

:rofl:

[mattclearing]

28. "I'm from the Catholic wing of the Vatican!"

YYYEEEEEEAAAAAAAAAARRRRRRRGGGGGGGGGGGGHHHHHHHHH!!!!!!

[Renew Deal]

30. lol

:yourock:

[incapsulated]

39. lol!

:D

I've gotta make a Dean for Pope graphic with that slogan, lol.

[MissB]

29. Please

use that one again and again on the Pope threads. It brings a necessary levity to the thread.

:D

[stopbush]

34. Scott Mechlowicz for Pope!

?path=pgallery&path_key=Mechlowicz,%20Scott&seq=18

[Az]

36. Yes he did what he thought was good

But the problem and what is going to cause problems is simply that the dogma he advocated is not considered good by everyone. Let us agree that he was not malicious. He believed he was acting in good faith. Unfortunately much suffering occurred due to his choices in the eyes of many.

A call to universal acceptance of all his actions is unwarranted. Just as a universal acceptance of anyone's actions is unwarranted. A person such as the Pope carries a great amount of power and thus draws a lot of opinions, both positive and negative. You cannot simply demand that those that have negative opinions about the actions of the man to discard their minds.

I would say to those that posess such negative opinions about the man's actions to refrain from disparaging the mourning of those that look up to the Pope. We are not going to gain anything from such behaviour.

[WillowTree]

90. "The dogma he advocated is not considered good by everyone"

Whose dogma would be "considered good by everyone"?

He is a decent, imperfect man who has done much good and has made his share of mistakes within the framework of the Church. In the overall scheme of things, he has probably done better than most.

[Bouncy Ball]

38. I think it's really irresponsible to say such things.

Unless you have a crystal ball, you have no way of knowing that.

Way to stir up strife before it's even happened. :eyes:

[QC]

43. Yeah, it's not like we have nasty religious flamewars here

at the slightest provocation. How could anyone dare to suggest such a thing!?

[Bouncy Ball]

47. It's one thing if people start nasty religious flamewars.

That's bad enough. But to announce that there WILL be nasty religious flamewars if the Pope dies soon is just irresponsible. Like a self-fulfilling prophecy. I like this place and I don't like seeing it engulfed in flame wars. Since there aren't currently a spouse, parents, and several courts fighting over the Pope, I was hoping his case would be different and we wouldn't have to go through what we went through with two weeks of divisive Schiavo threads that led to another solid week of divisive religion threads.

Then here goes someone just stirring the shit pot pre-emptively! Damn.

[October]

44. I don't agree

I don't agree with everything the pope has said/done, and I don't agree with what everyone here at DU says either.

[Kelvin Mace]

45. I'm Catholic

I take my faith seriously which is why I left the church.

I do NOT wish anyone to die. I do not like John Paul, but I don't wish him dead.

[Donailin]

49. I'm a cradle catholic who will bash ratzinger (saving my energy)

and I bash the pope. But I'll probably spend more time bashing Ratzinger, because the issue will be: who will replace him.

[PassingFair]

89. I guess that beats randomly

...bashing the bishop!

[Kathy in Cambridge]

54. I don't think it will happen, and I hope it doesn't

I don't always agree with the old guy, but I hope the folks here let him die in peace.

[underpants]

56. Lou Dobbs just said "The Pope has been given last rites"

Du? pppffftt the Catholic church will be quite the sight.

[screembloodymurder]

62. Nonsense.

We will all pray or not as we wish.

[seabeyond]

63. why would du erupt. he is an old old man

why would du erupt. why would you even say that. he ahs been sick forever. it is time for him to go. this is life

i dont get why du would erupt

weird

[tx_dem41]

64. Drive-by posting. Sigh. n/t

[dhinojosa]

67. What? This pope was pretty cool actually. I fear the next one....

If you read the history of the papacy, Pope John Paul II was pretty awesome. Many popes in history were con-artists, liars, thieves, child molesters, and murderers. Karol was none, and was a pretty modern guy if you look at the grand scheme of things.

[Ron Green]

80. Yeah, check out the Medici Popes. Now those were some ass-kickin' prelates

[Dookus]

100. yeah...

real cool unless you happen to be gay, for instance. He's incredibly conservative, and if he was a real national leader, everybody here would find him a horrible reactionary. But he's the Pope, so it's OK for him to hate. I just don't get it.

[dhinojosa]

106. Were you expecting a pope to be sensitive about gay issues?

Maybe you should grab a snickers.

[Dookus]

108. Why shouldn't I

expect a so-called Vicar of Christ to be sensitive to the realities of my life?

The notion that homophobia is inevitable is bullshit.

And by the way, your sig pic is too big - it violates the rules.

[dhinojosa]

113. This pope was the one that apologized for inquisition....

that should be a sign that the catholic church is quite in a backlog.

Homosexualty is now understood, by an enlightened few, as a trait that one is born with not too long ago. Hell, in the 60s, homosexuality was a disease that needed to be treated.

We've come a long way as a people (eh, about 40%). The church, in fact all churches, are super-slow in getting involved in modern thought.

BTW, I didn't realize my sig pic was too big. Did you bring that up conveniently because you were upset by my post. :)

[Malva Zebrina]

68. Don't be afraid

I don't think it will happen that much. What will be interesting is the successor of the Pope after he dies and it probably will not be long before he does. That process and all of it's political implications should prove to be interesting.

People do have issues with the Catholic religion these days.

If you believe in the Pope,and your religion, then why fear the truths or convictions of others who are not required to adore or respect the Pope? or the views of Catholics.

None are obliged to respect or adore him or see him as a god's representive on earth.

Many see him as a nice old man with some offensive views that insult and harm them.

If your religion is so fragile that you cannot take the criticism then it is indeed a very weak religion, I would think.

If others do have strong opinions about the Pope that go against your beliefs or your religion or your dedication to the Pope, just do not link on and save yourself the agony.

but I do not think that, as with Falwell, that people will go on a cheering rampage

[eek MD]

69. Yes, because only an athiest would cheer someone's death.../sarcasm

Personally i'll be indifferent about his death. I think it's in kind of poor taste that you assume the worst about us.

However, put yourself in our shoes for a while. While his death really isn't that important to me, I'm personally dreading it, because it'll be another non-stop religious love-fest going on in the media. Imagine having to watch and listen to wall-to-wall athiesm every time you turn on the news, and then think of us.

I respect the pope to an extent. He has taken anti-war and anti-death penalty stances which is admirable. However, he's also quite anti-choice, anti-gay marriage, etc...I won't be insulting him, but don't expect me to be grieving.

[Lindacooks]

70. 'If'?? Don't you mean 'when'?

[Deja Q]

71. Do you know the secret to immortality? If so, destroy it.

None of us would want it. It's no blessing to have.

[DemGirl7]

72. I'm not going to diss the Pope...

I'm Catholic by Baptism at birth, but other than that and the Catholic Bible School I went to for a few weeks, I've never openly practiced the religion, but I have no beefs with the Pope. I don't really agree that much with the Pope, or the Church. But I'm saving my wrath for the nutjobs over here.

[Kerrytravelers]

73. No one should crack jokes on the death of anyone, nor should we cheer.

Even when * dies. We must be above them.

[Media_Lies_Daily]

81. So, I shouldn't say anything like "The Pope has pooped"?

[Kerrytravelers]

85. Oh, that's hilerarious.

Seriously. I'm Catholic and I"m cracking up!:rofl:

I have just read other threads the past few weeks saying, oh, I can't wait until Jerry Falwell dies or this neocon dies. While I often agree, we sound just as bad as they do. It's hard to not feel vindicated, but we gotta remain above them.

[Media_Lies_Daily]

98. Taking the "high road" has cost the Democratic Party everything...

...to include the loss of the Executive, Legislative, and Judicial branches, as well as the complete loss of the mainstream media.

IMHO, remaining "above them" is only going to encourage them to take more.

[lastliberalintexas]

75. I would never cheer his death

But I refuse to mourn it either, considering the damage his policies inflicted on the least among us. Worse though is that I fear his replacement even more.

[Behind the Aegis]

76. I am with you.

I will not cheer, nor mourn. The only thing I fear are more religious people trampling on the rights of others in the name of religion. The crusades are not over, they are just in another form. We must be prepared for it.

[jonnyblitz]

84. people on a progressive discussion board who embrace

oppressive (to many of us) religious doctrine should expect to hear this sort of thing. I don't know what in hell they expect.

[JNelson6563]

78. I was gonna say....

When I read the title of this thread I thought "well it won't be due to the Catholic DUers..."

I really think some decorum should be demonstrated no matter what your beliefs or lack of.

Julie

[distressedsister]

83. Why? Non-Catholics didn't kill the old guy.

[jdj]

87. the pope is a good man?

wow.
I'll guess I'll save my thrashing for the day he finally kicks it. I'm sure he'll hang on as long as possible, being as he's top banana right now down here and if he croaks he'll be a grunt.

[BigBearJohn]

88. Thank you for your sensitivity.

I know there are people who don't agree with what this Pope has done.
But why can't we show a little respect? Thank you for posting this.
I'm a Buddhist, but I still have reverence for the man.

[BigBearJohn]

91. If I have to bash the Pope in order to be "progressive" I may just quit

I'm seeing a side here that I never saw on this board before.
Maybe all you people are right... either that or it's my time
to leave. I've been a member here for quite a while now. It
felt like family. But after reading the above remarks, I may
have to reconsider... and I'm sure half of you will say
"don't let the door hit you in the ass."

[Media_Lies_Daily]

99. Maybe a lot of us have finally gotten angry enough to....

...draw a line in the sand and say "no more".

[ultraist]

93. Respect and tolerance for religion=silencing dissent and opinions?

BS. ANTI Gay & ANTI women. ENORMOUS POWER AND INFLUENCE on the world.
We have a right to express our opinions.

I really don't understand why some claim it's ok for certain religious world leaders to BASH Gays and women's rights, yet it's not ok for us to voice our opinions on that.

That is unAmerican.

[Dookus]

101. exactly right, ultraist

This pope has spent a good part of his life trying to oppress me, and when I object, *I'M* called a basher. It's insane.

[Behind the Aegis]

110. My philosophy

Don't want me (or others) to attack your religion? Then don't use it as a weapon! When someone hides behind religion, they have become used to be treated with 'kid gloves' and many of us are now saying, "no more!" What a person's religious beliefs are not a threat to me, how they USE those beliefs is a whole other matter.

I don't feel it is right to celebrate anyone's death, but I am only responsible for my own actions and feelings! Why do so many here feel the need to tell others how they should think and feel about something? How is that different from the right-wing? Why must we respect YOUR religious beliefs, but our beliefs are somehow not valid?

Personally, I am glad to see posters like you, ultraist, and others like us that can distinguish between attacks on religion and defending ourselves from religious attacks!

[solinvictus]

96. Yes..

and I will clown on your heretic asses! ;)

[IndianaGreen]

102. Skinner won't allow that to happen!

Many of our friends that voted against Bush in 2004 hold this Pope in high regard. It will be bad manners to insult them by smearing the Pope. JPII will go down into history as one of the greatest Pope of all time.

[Dookus]

107. I doubt it

during his tenure, the American church has been nearly destroyed. The European church is in tatters. There is growth in Africa and Asia, but it remains to be seen how long-term that will be.

I think he'll be known as one of the last vestiges of right-wing reactionism as it pertains to the church.

His position on gays and on women in the church will ensure that in the near future, people will shake their heads and say "what the hell was he thinking?"

[NNN0LHI]

112. He allowed a multitude of threads bashing Rev. Jesse Jackson

Without batting an eye.

Don

[mondo joe]

103. Many of us are not Catholic and take our civil rights seriously.

If the man wants to get into politics expect it to be political.

[progressivebydesign]

105. I will be sad when he dies, because a lot of people love him.

I will be sad because it's usually sad when someone dies. The Pope is important to a lot of people. I'm sure he's done some good in his time as the Pope. He was concerned about the Iraq war. I'll never forget that classic photo of him holding his head in dismay, while Bush visited him.

I deeply disagree with the patriarchal stance of the Catholic Church, though I was supposedly born Catholic. I will never agree with their backwards ways.. or the ways that they've held down so many poor people and women, through their anti-"articial" birth control ways. And how they helped George Bush win, or come close enough to steal, the election by trashing John Kerry.

Having said all that. I will be sad when the Pope dies. As any normal human would be.

[The Magistrate]

109. For Your Information, Ladies And Gentlemen

There are recent reports of the Pope's suffering heart failure, and septic shock. It may well be only a matter of a few hours.

I trust all members of this forum will bear this in mind in further comment on the matter here. Respect for the feelings of others is expected.

[Behind the Aegis]

111. Well stated, Magistrate

I hope that EVERYONE'S feelings will be respected, even if they differ. There is a difference from stating opposition and being crass. Hopefully, people will understand the difference.

[Name removed]

117. Deleted message

Message removed by moderator. Click here to review the message board rules.

[tedzbear]

116. He is not a good man in my opinion...

...nor does he deserve my respect. I find your comment bossy and insensitive to those at DU who are GLBTs.


:nopity: for the pope

[The Magistrate]

119. Locking

The tone of this discussion has gotten poor, and out of synch with events.