Schaivo denied Parents permission to be with her when she died

[Red State Rebel]

I'm sorry, but whatever anyone thinks of this mess, I think that is wrong.

These parents obviously loved their daughter. In spite of the animosity, there is a time to set the crap aside and at least try to understand their feelings. I was with my Mom when she died, if anyone had tried to keep me out it would have been hell on earth.

http://news.bbc.co.uk/2/hi/americas/4398131.stm

Further info: http://www.philly.com/mld/philly/news/11276762.htm

"Unfortunately, just 10 minutes or so before she died, we were told we had to leave the room for an assessment of her condition and then a visit by Michael," Pavone said.

Pavone said that Terri Schiavo's brother, Bobby Schindler, protested that they wanted to be in the room when she died, but "Michael said no."

[Liberal Veteran]

1. Most likely, you hearing only one side of this story.

Let's try not to pass judgement until we have all the facts.

[Mr_Spock]

2. Is this true?

Seems like an odd thing to do unless he was worried they would do something crazy?

[hector459]

38. ABSOLUTELY NOT TRUE!!! Just reported on CNN Parents allowed in

ten minutes before Terri passed.

[sui generis]

44. yes but 20 minutes ago they reported that he hadn't let them in

until just after she died, so there you go, now you still don't know :evilgrin:

IF he hadn't allowed the parents in it could also have been because she was going into major organ failure and not comatose. Final death throes can be very very ugly, so it may have been the lesser of two evils to wait until she was closer to the absolute end.

[Red State Rebel]

45. Read the rest of the story

http://www.philly.com/mld/philly/news/11276762.htm

"Unfortunately, just 10 minutes or so before she died, we were told we had to leave the room for an assessment of her condition and then a visit by Michael," Pavone said.

Pavone said that Terri Schiavo's brother, Bobby Schindler, protested that they wanted to be in the room when she died, but "Michael said no."

[Connie_Corleone]

46. I hope everyone sees your post. We need FACTS...

not what some "spiritual advisor" to the Schindler's says.

[shelley806]

132. Read this DU link on brother Schindlers argument with the police...

http://www.democraticunderground.com/discuss/duboard.php?az=view_all&address=104x3395480

[qanda]

3. Let me be the first to say

I agree with you 100%. If he was so concerned with what she wanted, wouldn't you think she would want all her loved ones around when she died. That wasn't a very nice thing to do. jmho (made without the facts from both sides)

[JackRiddler]

135. who the hell knows what she wants?

She actually died 15 years ago, and as with anyone, what she may have wanted as a still-conscious and healthy person sentimentally contemplating her future hypothetical death may not be the same as what she may have wanted in the actual process of dying.

It's unbelievable that everyone's so taken up with this stuff.

If Schiavo had any consciousness left, this would be more reason to let her die - imagine being trapped like that for 15 years!!!

[qanda]

139. Actually, I'm not taken up with it at all

This was probably my 3rd post ever on the subject and now that I've heard the other side of the facts, I was coming back to say that I was wrong. I probably should have continued to stay out of it-- it really was a personal family situation. I would hate for the whole world to form opinions on some of my family situations....

[Lindacooks]

162. Baloney.

He didn't want her brother making a scene, as he did with policemen minutes before she died.

And btw, how in the hell was he supposed to know the exact minute and second she was going to die? He was trying to keep her brother, who just had a fight with a cop, out of the room since her brother could only be allowed in the room WITH the cop.

How many perfect strangers would you want around you in your last minutes?

[barbaraann]

4. You have no right to say that.

n/t

[randome]

59. Amen.

No one has the right to decide what was best except Michael. Isn't this what the entire dispute was about?

[Eloriel]

103. Boy I sure as hell disagree with that

And if that IS what this was all about, I disagree with Michael's position all the more.

It makes her into chattel (even more than she was already made into mere chattel), it makes him look like if not actually be a freakin' control freak, not to mention among the most selfish bastards that ever walked the face of the earth.

Anyone that thinks his so-called marriage vows (which he hasn't even been faithful to, a subject I'll not go into further for the moment) trumps the parent-child bond and entitles him or ANYONE to keep her parents away from her in her final moments doesn't understand a lot of things. That's ANYthing but loving, anything but respectful of Terri, and anything but respectful of death the dying process as part of Life. It's SO selfish of him I consider it verging on evil.

I figured we'd gottn a glimpse of the true Michael Schiavo when he denied her parents access to her briefly the other day, but with this little bit of news (if true), I'm convinced of it. There is no heartfulness there, no charity or magnaminity -- you'd think someone who'd "won" all this, all this time, could find it in his heart to be charitable in death, and do the RIGHT thing, but no.

Pig. He's a selfish bastard pig. And I hope to God the karma he's stored up for himself on this bites him on the ass bad, and soon.

And for the record, I don't think so very much of her parents, either. I think they're probably control freaks of the highest order as well. BUT, cutting them off from her is nothing but punitive. If they wanted to see her in her final moments, even if it got "ugly" (so what? losing someone you love is pretty ugly by definition in my book), that should be THEIR decision, not his. Not in any way.

[Dogmudgeon]

120. All bent out of shape over a media lie

Within minutes of Terri's demise, the spokesman for the Schindlers announced that Michael Schiavo had cruelly denied them access, so they couldn't tell their daughter good-bye. As if Michael Schiavo has powers of precognition, to know when his wife would die!

It turned out that some doctors went in to examine her when she flatlined. Nobody was deprived, it's routine. When my own father was on his deathbed, the cardiologist asked me to step out so he could do a hemodynamics test; I left to get a few minutes' sleep, and he passed away shortly after the test was completed, before I could get back. No way did his physician "cut me off" from seeing my father in his last minutes of life.

Your towering hatred of Michael Schiavo is also puzzling, given your accusation that Terri Schiavo had been turned into chattel; Robert Schindler has struck several lucrative business deals over this whole debacle, while Michael Schiavo has lost a huge amount of money. As for mention of his "marriage vows", I haven't seen so many people so concerned with sexual fidelity since Bill Clinton met with the disapproval of nine of his fellow adulterers on the House Impeachment Committee.

And wishing "bad karma" on someone? Well, karma's the original double-edged sword.

--p!

[Spazito]

130. Well said!

*

[StopTheMorans]

138. "karma's the original double-edged sword"

touche. Eloriel, men really aren't all the woman-hating testerone-filled devils you portray them to be. It may not hurt to realize, just once in awhile, that men are people too.

[Lindacooks]

121. Legally, marriage vows DO trump the parent-child bond.

That's the way it is.

And her parents urged him to start dating again when it became clear that Mrs. Schiavo was in a PVS.

And I think the parents are 'selfish pigs' for beaming pictures of her all over the world, selling videos of her for donations, and teaming up with the likes of Richard Mellon Scaife and Randall Terry.

[JackRiddler]

137. Eloriel, you know I love you

Why are you wasting your time getting bent about this case when you know all these great things you could be writing instead?

Terri Schiavo died 15 years ago. The "Schiavo" who died yesterday was exactly that - chattel. A living, barely animated corpse without ability to communicate any wishes

with at most a glimmer of consciousness (if there was any such glimmer - imagine! would YOU want to go through that torture for 15 years?!)

upon which others were free to project their will. Ugly, but this was what this was about - a conflict of the wills of the still-living.

After what Michael Schiavo has been put through - total national character assassination - I'm not surprised he doesn't want the parents around.

[kslib]

152. A-feakin'-men

[Baconfoot]

143. No. It was never about that.It was about what TERRI would have wanted.NT

[Name removed]

159. Deleted message

Message removed by moderator. Click here to review the message board rules.

[tridim]

5. Who told you that?

It's probably strait from some lying, piece of shit fundy's mouth.

[kslib]

63. I saw it too. On the BBC.

I love how everyone says "don't pass judgement without the facts." But apparently it's just fine and dandy to judge the parents. Perhaps it should be "don't pass judgement against my side w/o the facts." BTW, if she was in a persistant vegetative state, yes I believe she should have been allowed to die. No, the govt. shouldn't have gotten involved. Yes, her wishes should have been respected. Let's be fair though. Her parents loved her.

[Walt Starr]

6. I'm glad he did it! He wanted to be alone with his wife when she finally

passed.

Her parents abused the situation from day one.

Good on Michael Shiavo! Brave to the last!

[OldLeftieLawyer]

14. Amen, Walt

They forfeited any parental "rights" they might have had, and Mr. Schiavo could do nothing but protect himself and his wife from those fuckwits.

He's a hero.

[Individualist]

21. Agree, Walt

Understandably, Michael didn't want to be in the same room with those people.

[Walt Starr]

27. And he was in a position to insure he wasn't in the room with them

They brought it on themselves. They pushed this thing over the edge and turned it into a circus. Michael Shiavo removed the circus in the final moments.

[Liberal Veteran]

31. Quite a sad situation all around.

Props to Michael in this.

He has carried himself with supreme dignity in this despite the slanderous fabrications and aspersions cast on his motives by the Schindlers and the people exploiting this case for political gain.

[tblue37]

67. If someone I loved was dying and I wanted to say goodbye,

I would not want people who had declared themselves my enemies to share that moment with me. I would want peace, not hysterics and acusations.

[FreedomAngel82]

96. Same here

I wouldn't have let them spend the last few minute's either. Especially after they called me a murder with no proof and all this b.s. that they could've controlled if they wanted. I would've done the same thing. Good for Mr. Schavio.

[Eloriel]

105. Oh, so you also think the parents shouldn't have been denied access

as I do?

'Cause calling ANYthing Schiavo is doing for or to his former, betrayed "wife" LOVE is pure fantasy. He hasn't loved her since at least the episode that put her in this state, if not well before.

[ima_sinnic]

156. that is total bullshit

you do know that he went to nursing school after she slipped into that state, right?, for the SOLE reason of being able to take understand her condition and take care of her better. you know he paid someone to do her hair and makeup on a daily basis for quite a long time, right? you know he tried any and all possible therapies for a few years, never giving up until it was absolutely the end of any hope--you know that, right?

what possible motive could he have for doing anything that he's been doing except to do right by her. we've seen it's not money--he was offered 10 million to walk away, let the parents take over. you really think someone gives up 15 years of his life and becomes Public Enemy No. 1 just to be vengeful toward the parents or something?

I really used to respect your posts, I remember your animated and very well informed posts about Howard Dean. I am stunned that you have bought the rw bullshit hook, line and sinker. Michael Schiavo is the ONLY one who has done right by his wife. Everybody else has had an agenda of their own. I believe him when he says her father became enraged when HE didn't get any of the initial malpractice settlement and that everything went to hell between them then. I call them the Swindlers, they willfully manipulated that video to play on the public's emotions, thus knowingly defrauding the entire country, and for that matter made their personal family business a public crisis, monopolized the courts with their selfish and self-centered frivolous lawsuits (don't you think TERRI would have been aghast at their behavior?), and allowed what should have been a peaceful hospice setting to become a loud, very unruly, and potentially violent situation. Sorry, but I think you need to take a chill pill.

[roguevalley]

161. so you are passing on the lie that he killed her?

[tblue37]

176. You seem to be aware only of the RW media spin.

But the parents have said some very scary things, and I would not trust anything they said about Micahel Schiavo.

Jay Wolfson, guardian ad litemin 2003, wrote a report about Terri Schiavo's case for Gov. Bush. It reads in part:

Testimony provided by members of the Schindler family included very personal statements about their desire and intention to ensure that Theresa remain alive. Throughout the course of the litigation, deposition and trial testimony by members of the Schindler family voiced the disturbing belief that they would keep Theresa alive at any and all costs. Nearly gruesome examples were given, eliciting agreement by family members that in the event Theresa should contract diabetes and subsequent gangrene in each of her limbs, they would agree to amputate each limb, and would then, were she to be diagnosed with heart disease, perform open heart surgery.

There was additional, difficult testimony that appeared to establish that despite the sad and undesirable condition of Theresa, the parents still derived joy from having her alive, even if Theresa might not be at all aware of her environment given the persistent vegetative state. Within the testimony, as part of the hypotheticals presented, Schindler family members stated that even if Theresa had told them of her intention to have artificial nutrition withdrawn, they would not do it. Throughout this painful and difficult trial, the family acknowledged that Theresa was in a diagnosed persistent vegetative state.

[ultraist]

111. I agree.

If my in laws had been out on national television smearing me for years on end, accusing me of being an abuser and murderer, turning a personal tragedy into a national media circus, there is NO WAY I would allow them in the room to ruin and disrupt my husband's final moments on of life.

[noiretextatique]

164. she was their daughter eom

[mondo joe]

173. And Susan Smith was the mother of the kids she drowned.

Point?

[noiretextatique]

178. difference: they didn't kill their child eom

[Hoping4Change]

78. I agree with you.

They have continually shown no regard for their daughter's privacy and made their grief a Maury Povitch circus show. They are are the authors of their fate.

[Red State Rebel]

32. She was no wife to him

He's been living with and having children with another woman for years. This was pure spite and there is a time when, regardless of the situation, spite is wrong. This is one of them.

His final act in her life will go down in history as a hateful one.

[Walt Starr]

47. BULLSHIT!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!! HER PARENTS WERE THE HATEFUL ONES

as is the case with ANYBODY who would support the hateful SOB's.

[Red State Rebel]

49. They were both hateful

What I'm saying, is there is a time to put that aside and this was it.

He had the final word and will not reflect well on him.

[Hobarticus]

51. Who had trouble putting this aside?

They were appealling all the way up until last night, instead of trying to make amends with Michael to possibly spend time with their daughter in their last hours.

[ima_sinnic]

yes, instead of trying to spend time with their daughter in her final

days and hours, they were busy tying up the court system with their self-centered, selfish lawsuits. there is something very very wrong with people who continually run to court to solve things. they are petty, greedy people who have exploited their daughter's condition for self-pity, media attention, money, and whatever else they can get. they probably hired a book writer a long time ago, and the ink dried on their TV appearance contracts a long time ago also.

If Michael Schiavo "denied them access" it was for a good reason. He does not seem particularly spiteful; in fact, I do believe he would act in the spirit of Terri in all matters. MAYBE SHE DETESTED HER PARENTS and he knew she wouldn't want them there--who knows? not to mention they have proven themselves capable of lying, distortions and all kinds of other crap. but probably it is as someone way above said, there was some procedure or other going on and people had to leave the room.

[Walt Starr]

52. He wanted to visit his wife

THEY were the ones who got hateful. THEY were the ones that forced Michael Shiavo into a position where they would be removed from the reoom any time he went to visit his wife.

THEY brought it on themselves.

[Red State Rebel]

56. He denied Terri the last act of compassion he could have given her.

Having her parents in the room when she died. There is no rationalization for that no matter how angry and bitter you are.

[Walt Starr]

60. Nope, your WRONG. The SCHINDLERS did that by creating the media

circus and getting vidictive on Michael Shiavo.

Shiavo acted in a sane, rational, and completely appropriate manner.

[SW FL Dem]

62. Her parents didn't want to be there

They haven't visited her in days because it was too painful. Her brother and sister and the family's spiritual adviser were the only ones to visit Terri.

[Discord]

64. He could have been civilized, but the parents are

fucking animals. They would have spent her last 10 minutes screaming at MS and calling him a murderer rather than giving TS the respect she deserved in her final moments.

[Walt Starr]

81. And that's why they brought it on themselves!

Had they been civil he would have been civil, too. Unfortunately for them, THEY decided to get uncivil and THEY decided to make spurious charges and THEY decided to profit from it all, and THEY decided to open up the three ring media circus, so THEY paid by not being able to be in the same room with the man when the time came.

[Hoping4Change]

84. How do you know what Terri's feelings for her parent's were?

How do you know that she didn't despise her parents and related that her husband?

[ima_sinnic]

158. yes, EXACTLY what I've said--maybe she didn't like them at all

[Name removed]

98. Deleted message

Message removed by moderator. Click here to review the message board rules.

[ultraist]

116. BS

The parents were out in front of the cameras every day LYING about Terri's condition, trashing Michael, trashing Hospice, trashing our civil rights, & promoting their fundie agenda. USING their daughter's body to shove their pro life "religion" into OUR LAWS.

There is no way I would have allowed them in the room to have their histrionics RUIN my loved one's final moments.

[mondo joe]

172. He was more charitable than they deserved, not hateful at all.

I didn't see him slandering them on television.

[Discord]

58. No. He was the ONLY one who showed through deed

rather than lip-service, that he loved he far more than her parents did. No loving parent would do the things that the Shindlers have done.

Michael Schiavo is a hero. He is the only one in this to not exploit Terri.

[SemperEadem]

66. one thing you forgot is

his parents gave their blessing to him to pursue another relationship. If there is any spite to be assigned, it falls back on the parents---they should not have ok'd something they didn't want in the first place and then change tack when they couldn't force their way on their daughter's marriage.

[Eloriel]

108. They didn't have the right to do that and any

"blessing" from them was NOT speaking for Terri -- they couldn't and can't on the issue of HIS wedding vows.

He should have done the right thing, the honorable thing, the manly thing and divorced her. What he's done isn't even the RIGHT thing for his present common-law wife and their children.

He's a slob and a pig. A damned selfish one. I don't trust him in the least, not about anything INCLUDING what "Terri wanted."

[Lindacooks]

123. Sorry, the right thing was to stand by her wishes.

Divorcing her would be abandoning her to some really freaky, controlling people who in all probability caused, if not contributed to, her eating disorder which started this whole thing.

Remember, Mrs. Schiavo's parents said that even if she had a living will they would have ignored it, cutting off her limbs if necessary to keep her alive. THAT'S selfish.

[TankLV]

169. I must say I have lost any respect I've had for you over this one.

I used to love your thoughtful insightful posts - but these posts of yours are way over the top.

The best that could be said is that it would have been a lot bigger gesture on his part if he had let them in - but I would have done the same thing if I had such hateful, spiteful inlaws. That he did not is only to be expected considering the awful treatment they gave him. He owes them NOTHING, considering the way they treated him.

Maybe on other topics, once you've had a chance to get some rest and chill, maybe I can again appreciate your posts. But I am truly surprised by your over reaction.

[SemperEadem]

177. well, thankfully

He felt it was better to stand by her and make sure her wishes were respected and carried out, no matter how bad the un-christian fall out to that decision could be.

He'd be a worse dog if he had divorced her in her helpless state and left her to fend for herself--when clearly she couldn't--against those who's best shot was to guess or project themselves into where they didn't belong. He did exactly what she asked him to do for her.

A weaker man would have bailed out, divorced her, taken a payoff to do so and run away---kind of like what your post is suggesting. Don't hate because he's not weak enough to prove you right.

[RetroLounge]

69. Bullshit

Keep your right wing talking points somewhere else.

RL

[Johonny]

79. Since when

was the capacity for love MORE than one person removed from the husband. I see no evidence in human behavior nor in human social structure to conclude that the husband could not love two people at the same time. So the husband has another person in his life to give him support and children. Two things Terri could no longer give him. Does this mean he somehow loves her less? Do I love my mother less now that I'm a grown man? Do I lov emy grandmother less now that she’s dead? Do her parents love her less because they have two other kids that they need to spread the love to? I think the whole idea of who loves who or how many people a person can love is stupid. It certainly isn’t convincing. It’s such a narrow minded view of love, no wonder it is expressed must be the narrow minded pro-family people. People who would deny love to a whole class of people. I weep for you and your narrow view of love.

[SemperEadem]

179. You're so right

It's almost like an 8yr old mentality has been assigned to the adults in this country and now government and the radical extremist neocon fundi-mental cases want to step in and be big parent to all of us, stripping us of our own right to make our own decisons, as if we need some kind of freakin' protection from our own adulthood.

Christ! I spent 21 years as a minor with parents to make decisions for my own good. At 45, I don't need religion, government or busybodies with no life trying to step in and do the job my own parents did well enough for me during that season of my life. We don't need hall monitors telling us where we can go; we don't need censors telling us what we can and can't watch/read/listen to. I am not a minor.

[Spazito]

83. Bullshit, he is the only who has acted with dignity and respect

for his wife's best interests and adhering to her wishes. The truth is now known that they were let in. They continue to lie instead of privately grieving the death of their daughter which shows me that their daughter was really not their priority.

[Lindacooks]

122. Baloney.

HER parents encouraged him to date and find another woman. And he was faithful to HER WISHES, which were, as determined by endless court decisions, to not be kept alive in her condition.

He was offered millions of dollars to walk away and let her parents 'have her', but he turned them down because he wanted to fulfill her wishes.

[mondo joe]

174. I see "as a Christian" you can read the minds of others.

Nice.

Too bad about that no false witness commandment.

[Bake]

136. Right on, Walt!

And given the slanderous things the Schwindlers have been saying about Mr. Schiavo for weeks now (if not longer), I imagine that what would already be a very tense moment would have been made more so if they were in the same room.

Michael certainly had the RIGHT to be there. I say he did the right thing.

Bake

[Horse with no Name]

155. I agree

They have slandered him, caused death threats to be thrust upon him, they have played tug of war with her and made him to be the bad guy.
I am probably one of the most forgiving persons in the world and I don't believe I could have forgiven them.
Can you imagine all of them in the same room with her when Terri died--wrestling each other, yelling at each other, insulting, etc.
Why should you expect anything different of the Schindler's now than what they have been doing non-stop for 8 years?
Mrs. Schiavo deserved a peaceful death without police officers and turmoil when she left this world.
It wasn't possible with all of them in attendance.

[liberalnurse]

7. Yea, it was definitely

messed up. The parents also need to take responsibility for Michaels choice too. They have been very media driven and polarized the situation to where this unpleasant choice was necessary.

[cmkramer]

19. I agree

Considering how they kept sending people to the media to trash him and cast suspicions upon him, did they really expect anything better? Not that it wouldn't have been a nice thing for him to do, mind you.

From what I understand, her brother and sister and a priest (Father Pavone) were allowed in until about 10 minutes before she passed away, and that after she died the Schindler family were alone with her to say their goodbyes.

[hlthe2b]

8. They were with her up until the last 10-15 minutes....

Apparently court restricted Schiavo and Schnindlers from being there together (which was apparently a wise move, given the animosity)


You statement gives a very misleading impression, IMO. They weren't denied time with her.

[Red State Rebel]

34. The article says he asked them to leave

How is that misleading?

[K-W]

61. If the court ordered them to visit seperately its very misleading.

Becuase it means that if the parents had been allowed in, Michael wouldnt. Thus it wasnt michael being selfish and unreasonable, it was just him asking for his turn.

[SW FL Dem]

65. No the article says they were asked to leave

"Unfortunately, just 10 minutes or so before she died, we were told we had to leave the room for an assessment of her condition and then a visit by Michael," Pavone said.

I read your quote to say that they were asked to leave by the hospice staff. They didn't know that these were her last minutes. It was the same changing of the guard that has been happening for the past 13 days.

[Democrat 4 Ever]

75. MSM is reporting that the DOCTOR asked them to leave so her

medical situation could be assessed, not Michael. Quit nitpicking, MS gave her the peace and quiet in her final moments that was so sorely missing for the last two weeks. The parents did say their goodbyes and were escorted out. This is just more whining for the cameras. Michael could have walked away from this situation and left her to the clutches of these people but he took the hard road, honored HER wishes until the end. We all should be so lucky to have someone who cared so much for us.

[Discord]

90. Agree. I hope theres someone willing to fight for me like that.

[Red State Rebel]

92. After the examination, Michael went back in and refused her family

the request to be with her when she died.

[daleo]

94. Who said this?

I might believe a hospice person, or doctor in this case, but nobody else is likely to be objective.

[Democrat 4 Ever]

126. As is his right as her husband, friend, lover and guardian.

Again, the Schlinders were reaping what they sow. How long do you think they should be allowed to call him a murdered, abuser, money-grubbing (pot meet kettle) etc. They made no attempt to bridge the acrimony and, yet, jumped at the chance to knock him again and again all day in the media. They weren't interested in spending time with her, just another complaint they can dredge up to keep their 15 minutes of fame going. This isn't about the death of their daughter as much as this whole situation has been co-opted for personal and ideology gain.

Michael took excellent care of this woman for 15 years and Terri and he both deserved the time without the media hungry family turning her room into a three ring circus. The family was allowed to go back in and spend some time with her body after her death in addition to the time spent with her before the doctor's examination. Exactly how much is ever gonna satisfy this people? I am sick and tired of hearing from these people and their representatives. What once was a tragedy for all parties is now just a power grab by people the Schlinders are letting use them. Will be so glad when these people fade back to obscurity.

[Lindacooks]

131. Because her brother got into a fight with a police officer

outside her door. Mr. Schiavo did not want a police officer and Bobby Schindler, with animosity shimmering between them, by his wife's bedside in her last minutes.

[hlthe2b]

87. He asked them to leave for the physician to come in....

You imply he denied access. He did not.

[DearAbby]

97. There seems to have been some sort of Restraining Order.

Michael wanted to spend time with Terri...the parents had time as well...why deny Michael his right to be with Terri? Did they know exactly the minute Terri would die? NO..they knew it was close.

Why to the bitter end Trash this man?

[FreedomAngel82]

99. Because of your claims

You claim they had no time with her when that's pure crap. They did have time. Just not the last few minute's which was HIS time alone.

[zipplewrath]

9. It may not be like it sounds

They had been splitting the day up, since apparently they can't manage to be in the room at the same time. Some one was going to be at her side at that moment, it may have had certain elements of luck to it. I can imagine though that if he could predict it, he would have preferred it was himself. There is much here that we don't know about these relationships. And there is much distortion being presented to the public. Probably best to withhold judgment in general.

[ClassWarrior]

Link?? If you don't have one, THAT's wrong.

NGU.

[Discord]

10. They were there up until 10 minutes previous to it

and immediately after it. MS has shown to me he loves TS more than her parents EVER did.

[Dogmudgeon]

11. A physician was coming in to examine her before she died

Nearly everything on TV about Terri Schiavo in the past hour has been more of the same cheap agit-prop. The True Believers have been whipped into a frenzy, and the media are exploiting it for every penny they can squeeze out of it.

I don't believe a word of any of this crap. Terri Schiavo died. May she rest in peace.

--p!

[moobu2]

39. That's right, it was the hospice who asked the Schindler family

to leave while they did some tests etc...

[Hoping4Change]

86. You are on the mark the media is feeding the frenzy.

[sescob]

12. I'm sure not EVERYONE could be there at that specific moment

One report said the family was with her 15 minutes before she died and then the doctors came in and then Michael. I believe it was MSNBC.

[Nicholas D Wolfwood]

13. No, it is not.

There is no reasonable expectation that the parents could've remained civilized in that environment. Not to mention it's none of your business to pass judgement on someone else's personal decision.

[ultraist]

118. Good point!

And there was a reasonable expectation that they would break out into full blow histrionics, run right out to the cameras and distort what really happened in those last moments.

This is what we've seen them do for the last two weeks and Randall Terry is always at their side.

The "prolife" fundie cult made this into one big publicity stunt.

[kskiska]

153. The day the Schindlers demanded $ from Schiavo

it broke out into a brawl where tables and chairs were shoved around.

Mrs. Schindler hadn't seen her daughter since Easter, and I don't think her father was on the scene today, either. It was just the brother and sister and their monk.

[Blue_In_AK]

157. Perhaps it's some kind of karmic payback to the Schindlers

because the media circus which they have created outside the hospice prevented that girl the other day from getting to her grandfather in time to say her last good-byes. It seems to me they have had no concern for anybody but themselves throughout this whole ordeal.

[Democrat 4 Ever]

15. They were with her up until about 10 minutes before she died.

And considering the hell they have put everyone through during all of this I just think that sometimes you reap what you sow. Michael evidently wanted the last moments of her life to be quiet, peaceful and reverent. The Schlinders in the room would not have been able to provide that for her and I think he knew that. That was the last gift he could give Terri. RIP

[BiggJawn]

16. Who says he did?

Some bubblehead on Faux? That guy in the Friar Tuck suit?

When the truth comes out, it will probably be that Mike wanted them by her side, but Randy Terry put conditions on it, like "not unless we can put the tube back in, or Brother Juniper can do a chant"

[thinkingwoman]

36. Friar Tuck suit!

We've been calling him Friar Tuck for the past couple of weeks! LMAO.

Who dresses like that these days?

It's like he needs to scream to the world "look at me, I'm pious."

Ugh. How revolting those yahoos are.

[einsteins stein]

95. A lot of people who live monastic lives

Dress in monastic dress.

Are you making fun of a reliogious order based on its dress?

Aren't there more important things to complain about?

[BiggJawn]

107. Not Me.

"Are you making fun of a reliogious order based on its dress?"

No, I'm questioning whether or not they brought in these "brothers" purely for the visual impact of the Friar Tuck drag.

And I'm on break. how I spend my time and what I complain about when I'm not out fighting the Dark Forces of Neo-Conservatism is my affair.

[ultraist]

113. Religious order? That guy is a fucking cult leader freak.

You are insulting those that really are of the religious order. He is NOT of any official religious order.

Are you defending a fanatic cult leader who abuses religion?

[thinkingwoman]

133. If I thought

for one second that his dress wasn't just for show, I'd take it, and him, more seriously.

I don't.

And I think hypocrisy, however exhibited, is the most important thing in the world to complain about.

[Connie_Corleone]

17. Well, it looks like they were with her until the last 10 minutes.

Can we agree to hear both sides of a story before going off on a rant?

[chelsea0011]

18. I couldn't disagree more. Just in the last couple of days

they were accusing Mike of murder and being responsible for Terri's condition. If it were my in-laws, I would do just what Mike did.

[Bridget Burke]

20. Did you make your mother's death a circus?

Did you make money from the sad event? Did you take anyone to court?

Mrs. Schiavo's parents have tried very hard to erase every bit of sympathy they might deserve.

[Red State Rebel]

129. See my post #125 and get back with me.

[OldLeftieLawyer]

22. WHO GIVES A FUCK?

She died fifteen years ago.

Finally, these witless, conniving "parents" of hers have lost their deathgrip on her, and they'll have to come to grips with life out of the spotlight.

I hope Mrs. Schiavo's soul, or whatever, finds a joyous and peaceful place.

I hope Mr. Schiavo finds peace and that he and his family are kept safe.

I hope the Schindlers rot.

Now, to things that matter: how many American kids were murdered in Iraq this week?

[liberalnurse]

She sure did die 15 years ago....

Michael is a very brave man too.

[tblue37]

73. Oh, don't think for a minute that they will surrender the spotlight!

They will be making the rounds forever as rightwing shills, hitting the lecture circuit for the fundies, writing books about "their" ordeal. It isn't over for them at all. They have a new, lucrative career.

[DearAbby]

101. Yep...TBN with the Crouch Circus...Jan mascara running sniffling

as the Schindler's discribe their battle to save Terri from the evil Satan Schiavo.

I also see a book, possibly Movie of the week...3 parts interupted only by Monday Night Football.

Rest in Peace Terri

[malaise]

142. Agree 100% n/t

[BrklynLiberal]

23. IF it is true, I would be willing to be that if they could have excluded

him from being at her side, they would have. Sorry, but they brought this bitterness upon themselves. By all accounts, they started this pointless, public circus. They are the ones selling pictures of their dying daughter.

[SemperEadem]

77. Also, yesterday, they showed that they were willing

to keep the dog and pony show going by seeking out yet another court to hear them...

Terri's parents created this whole mess. They have put in jeopardy the legal construct of marriage in this country--far worse than any amendment to allow gay marriage. They refused to take "no" for an answer and as a result, they made a heartbreaking situation downright nasty by bringing in unrelated entities to interfere in a legally recognized marriage and decisions within said marriage. THey pimped their daughter to Terry Randall and his ilk to prostitute for the extremist religious agenda.

[GumboYaYa]

24. Sorry, but MS has been excessively civil to the Schindlers

given the fact that they have publicly called him an abuser, murderer and adulterer.

Sometimes you reap what you sow in life.

[Fenris]

25. We've not heard from Michael on this matter yet

The Schindlers' spiritual advisers said the couple had been at their daughter's besides minutes before the end came, but were not there at the moment of her death because Michael Schiavo did not want them in the room.

http://news.yahoo.com/news?tmpl=story&e=1&u=/ap/20050331/ap_on_re_us/brain_damaged_woman&sid=84439559

Frankly, I want to hear the whole story before I judge someone. And I certainly wouldn't judge someone based on the rantings of a "spiritual adviser," by which I assume the article is referring to the far-from-camera-shy monks that have helped turn this into a circus.

[oldcoot]

88. Her parents visited her "nearly every day"

According to the article, her parents visited her "nearly every day." If Michael Schiavo is the evil bastard that the "spiritual advisers" portray him to be, he would not have allowed the frequent visits.

[SW FL Dem]

117. The parents visited until it became too painful for them

I heard that they haven't been there in days because it hurt them too much. How dare they conplain they were there in the last minutes!

[ultraist]

148. So, they couldn't put their pain aside to be there for their daughter?

It was painful for me too be with my father and best friend of 20 years who was 43 when she died, but MOST people put their dying loved ones needs FIRST.

[atreides1]

26. It's not that simple

I'm sure at first, that the parents thoughts were for their daughter, but not towards the end.

The father, mother, brother and sister, just couldn't wait to get in front of a camera, with some "spiritual adviser" standing at their backs.

The animosity was created by the parents, who refused to understand his feelings, perhaps he could have been the better person, but the
results of his decision will be judged by God, not by you,not by me, or by anyone else on this earth.

And for those of us who do believe in a God, that is the only decision that really counts.

[Red State Rebel]

28. Link added

http://news.bbc.co.uk/2/hi/americas/4398131.stm

[Dogmudgeon]

Here's the details you left out

It seems that the inflammatory story comes from the Schindlers' spokesman.

...

A few minutes before she died, they were told to leave the room by Michael Schiavo, their spokesman said. (emphasis mine)

They were allowed back into the room after she died.

Father Frank Pavone, national director of the organisation Priests for Life, accused Mr Schiavo of "heartless cruelty".

...

I've lost quite a bit of respect for them.

--p!

[SteppingRazor]

29. This is half truth

Terri's brother was saying this morning, before Terri's death, that he and the family weren't allowed in.

So, yes, they weren't allowed in. No, it was not becasue Terri was dying, nor did Michael Schiavo know that death was imminent.

[flamingyouth]

30. I would take that quote with a grain of salt

Their "spiritual advisers" have an agenda, and it clearly includes slandering Michael Schiavo at every possible turn.

[Fenris]

33. Here's a lovely follow-up:

"And so his heartless cruelty continues until this very last moment," said the Rev. Frank Pavone. He added: "This is not only a death, with all the sadness that brings, but this is a killing, and for that we not only grieve that Terri has passed but we grieve that our nation has allowed such an atrocity as this and we pray that it will never happen again."

Reverend? Of what?

[Mr_Spock]

41. Reverend Satan

jack-ass

[LostinVA]

72. Errr.... it happens every day, and has been for quite a while

Just not every case has Randall Terry & the Freak Boys behind it.

[sundancekid]

35. excuse me, but weren't these the same controlling parents that flat out

stated that they would NOT abide by Terri's wishes in her right to die even if that decision had been executed in writing under all rule of law procedures?

The alleged denial was about everyone being in the room at the same time, not about their being in the room at all. After their vilification and defiling of Michael Schiavo, legal rulings to the contrary, they then expected or deserved what???? As I posted elsewhere, I appreciate the proverb that says:

"If you scatter thorns, don't go barefoot."

[Modem Butterfly]

37. Maybe he just wanted to spend a few minutes with his wife...

Maybe he just wanted to say good-bye to his wife without the presence of people who have been slandering him non-stop for the last ten years.

[Wat_Tyler]

40. It would be wrong.

If it were true.

[Fenris]

42. Funny thing about truth...

It doesn't always match what people claim as the truth.

[Red State Rebel]

53. Or what people Want to be the truth

Read the added links in the original post.

[Wat_Tyler]

54. Or it is just a reflection of what people would like to believe.

[countryjake]

43. Mary Schindler couldn't even stand to be in the room with her...

own dying daughter...made her physically ill, they have been saying for the past week. Doesn't sound to me like the type who gives a whit about being present or holding the hand of a dying loved one! She couldn't handle death, why is that not obvious? Lots are like that, but most don't create spectacles in response to their grief!

[Ganja Ninja]

57. I'm really sick of all the melodrama from these people.

It's one thing to have someone die suddenly and unexpectedly. But when a person goes through what Terri Schiavo has for the last 15 years you'd think there would be a sense of relief that her suffering is over. I've had relatives that have been totally disabled and lived for years in better shape than Terri was and when they passed on I was saddened but it wasn't a devastating loss. I saw it as a release from their troubles and resigned myself that they were in a better place.

[elehhhhna]

48. So now Mister Schiavo is psychic and predicted her exact moment of death?

Please.

[Red State Rebel]

50. We could tell when my Mom's time was there

I wouldn't be suprised at all if the signs were there. Very slowed shallow breathing, the interval between each breath gets longer until it just stops.

[Modem Butterfly]

71. We couldn't tell with my grandmother

She had Alzheimer's and got to a point where we could have either had a feedig tube inserted and eventually a respirator attached or we could let her go peacefully. We let her go. She lingered for about ten days. In the end, we didn't know when her time would come. The nursing home staff called us, and we rushed to her side, on the fourth day. She died at 11 AM when my mother and I went to find a vase for some flowers we'd brought to her.

[me b zola]

93. It is quite common for people to wait to pass until

family have left the room. My father did the same thing. It is said that a dying person doesn't want their loved ones to feel pain or that they have been abandoned, so they linger. Two hospice nurses wrote a book on this aspect of dying, and how we need to let our dying loved ones know that it is OK for them to pass, that we will be OK.

MS did the right thing.

[republicansareevil]

104. wow, that's interesting

I didn't know about that

[Red State Rebel]

114. My Mom was the opposite - waited till my Brother got there

It had snowed and the roads were bad. My husband took our jeep and went out to get him to bring him to the hospital. She died within about 15 minutes of his arrival.

[ultraist]

125. And would you have allowed people in the room

that had called you a murderer and made a national media circus out of your mom's death?

Or would you have done everything necessary to ensure she had a peaceful and loving passing?

That "Father" Pavone made things worse. He did not offer any words of reconcilliation, love, or compassion. The whole crew, led by fundie cult leaders, made this private situation into a huge publicity stunt. That is shameful.

It's amazing Michael managed to give her a dignified and peaceful death process in spite of them all.

[Red State Rebel]

128. Here is your answer to that...pay close attention

My mother was 46 when she died. For a good part of her life, she did not get along with her father. She had reported him to her mother for molesting her stepsister and he made her life a living hell when he could. (Granted this was back in the late 30's and early 40's when you did NOT hear about these things.) When I was 9 he molested me. Her younger sisters never believed these things happend and when the time came for the end of her life (we had been told she would have about 6 months) her sisters went to the rural area where her father lived and brought him to the hospital to visit her. Yes, I was there, along with my sisters who knew the situation and yes, we allowed him to visit with her.

He was a scum sucking pedophile but for 1/2 hour we put everything aside while he visited his dying daughter. We never knew what transpired in that visit, it was between them. She died shortly thereafter.

In every "dying" situation like this always someone who becomes the "doorkeeper" deciding who can visit and who can't for whatever reasons they decide. As a Christian, my thought was that as much as I detested him, my grandfathers behaviour and fate are up to the judgement of God, not me.

[barb162]

134. you have compassion n/t

[ultraist]

146. That's right, "in every situation someone becomes the doorkeeper"

And in this situation, it was Terri's husband. He decided that the brother and sister who wanted to be in the room would disrupt Terri's last moments. Her parents didn't even request to be there.

Considering the brother had just had a fight with a police officer and the hostile and adversarial position the family chose to take, Michael made what appears to be the right decision to maintain a peaceful and calm situation.

When my father died, my sister and I went to great lengths to create a loving and peaceful environment. I would NOT have allowed someone like that in the room his last moments.

[Red State Rebel]

165. Wow

That entire post went right over your head didn't it?

[TankLV]

175. I didn't see it - but a lot of posts expaining the TRUTH of the situation

certainly seems to have gone over yours!

Glad to know that you and the Swindlers can predict the exact moment of death.

It was just pure luck - and a bit of Kharmic justice - that the "changing of the guard" was in Michael's "avor".

She could have died any moment in the past 2 weeks - that Michael was there was just pure serindipity.

To "know" otherwise is just pure B.S.

[mondo joe]

171. Maybe if your grandfather got into a fight with a police officer as

your mother was dying, had a bagpipe player running around the hospital, caused your life to be threatened and told everyone you were a murderer you might have done differently.

[Blue_In_AK]

160. I believe that's correct.

When my stepmother was dying, she was just hanging by a thread. The whole family was in the hospital room with her, and those last breaths just kept coming, weaker and weaker, further and further apart. I bent down and whispered in her ear, "It's okay, mom. You can go now." She took one last breath, and that was it.

[SemperEadem]

80. perhaps they should have sent for you

since you have such powers.

[GoldenOldie]

82. Michael Schaivo is an RN, he was well aware of final stages of dying.

It has been reported repeatedly that Michael Schaivo returned to school to become an RN in order to insure quality care for Terri.

Medical personnel who have been interviewed also discussed the absence of any bed sores during the 15-years of Terri's illness...they have stated this is almost unknown and can only be a result of Michael's personal care and the demands he placed on those attending Terri.

We have only to remember Christopher Reed's medical outcome. Christopher had the very best 24-hr round the clock, professional medical care. He had full mental capability, was able to be transported around the world, and be a functional participant in his care. Yet he died from bed sores that finally ravaged his body and took his life.

We will never know the interactions between these families but the Christian Clowns, who need a stage for their performance to include the Bag Piper, the bugler, the horrid off key choir, the jugglers, the goose-stepping taunter, Friar Tuck, Father Parone (all priests from somewhere else.....don't the Schindler's have a priest from their very own parish?), who never wasted their breath on prayer or Terri's final peace, but only his vile hateful attacks against Michael.....These men wear the cloth but do not in any way act like men of God??

I admire Michael Schaivo for defending and protecting Terri's medical care and her wishes. He chose to be at Terri's side and not the stage with the Clowns and feed the hungry media. As for the "She was no wife to him," you are absolutely right, that is why the jury and the courts awarded him $300,000 and this was well before he ever met the woman that bears his children today. We should all be so lucky to have someone love us this deeply even though we are unable to return their love.
I admire Michael because he

[K-W]

85. That is a bad argument.

Being a nurse doesnt make you into a psychic. Predicting the exact time of death is not something nurses are capable of doing.

[republicansareevil]

102. Heh. I was wondering how I got so many replies to my post already.

Then I realized we posted almost the same thing.

[louis-t]

55. Brother and sister were there 10 min. before she died

as reported on CNN. Let's not forget, because of the circus (created in part by the family), another patient at the hospice died while his granddaughter was held up in security.

[Johonny]

106. Thanks for the info

That's horrible.

[Crankie Avalon]

68. Sorry, but the Schindlers seem like very disturbed people...

...and I wouldn't jump to conclusions based on their side of anything.

Of course, the fact that the Schindlers insist on constantly jumping in front of cameras to give "their side" while Mr. Schiavo keeps a more dignified reserve means we'll mostly only get their side (as if it's any of our business, anyway), but the Schindlers own behaviour has been the biggest drag on their credibility.

Anyway, their mental state could very easily have made such a choice advisable, if indeed such a choice was made.

[beyurslf]

70. I think Michael loved her too and maybe he wanted to be there...

Doesn't seem like they could all be there at once with all the hateful feelings among them. I am just glad it is over.

[daleo]

74. Ten minutes difference, after 15 years without communication.

It is not easy to predict when someone will die, anyway. My wife went back east to be with her brother, a two week death watch and she still missed the moment of death. But she spent lots of time with him near the end, while he was lucid and talking, so it was worth it. That is quite different from this case, where she hasn't talked for a decade and a half. Do people think they are going to see a white ghost flying to the ceiling?

These Friar Tuck types are just milking every little detail to create controversy. They can't give it up. They will be selling Terri Shiavo Memorial Plates pretty soon. They can go right next to the gambling dog pictures.

[dogtag]

76. It's amazing, considering the number of 'spiritual' advisers

clinging to the Shindlers, that not one of them could convince the media hogs to try a little compassion, grace and dignity. It's doubtful that one of them tried as it wouldn't have been compatible with their various political pursuits. It's just interesting that with all the men of the cloth acting as ringmasters, the prevailing atmosphere was all hatred, all the time.

[Karenina]

91. And COMPLETELY dismissive

of ALL the other families at the Woodside Hospice. THEIR privacy and access to their dying loved ones NEVER REGISTERED ON THE RADAR SCREEN, not with all that TV lighting and make-up folks... :eyes:

[moobu2]

89. Terri's family was with her when she died

Michael Schiavo was her family, he was her next of kin.

[republicansareevil]

100. Now Michael Schiavo is a psychic? He knew the exact minute she would die?

This is ridiculous. If she had died 10 minutes sooner, the parents WOULD HAVE been with her and not Michael. It was just the luck of the draw, more or less.

And I'll tell you this: if it were my husband, I would want to be with him alone in his final minutes, even if I had begun dating someone else in the 15-year interval since I had last seen him conscious. As another poster said, it's not as if a person can love only one other person at a time. Do widows and widowers stop loving their spouses after they meet someone new? Even if I hadn't had a long, bitter feud with my in-laws the way Michael has had, I'd still want that privacy with my spouse and feel like I had the larger claim to those last minutes. So even if Michael IS psychic, I still think he was entitled to those last minutes.

[geomon666]

109. Not to mention the fact that his life is in danger because of the parents.

I wouldn't want to be in the same room with them either. Not that I would ever trust what the brother says. She's dead now and all of a sudden we're supposed to take whatever that lunatic brother says as gospel? I'd have to double check if he told me the sky was blue.

[ultraist]

110. Maybe he was trying to prevent her last breath from being sensationalized

and exploited by the parents. Maybe after years and particularly, the past two weeks of seeing the parents get on tv, with their fundie freak "religious" leaders, Michael decided he was not going to have them make up some dramatic story about her last breath and smear it all over national tv.

It's apparent how the parents would describe those final moments. Within minutes, they'd be out in front of the cameras with Terry Randall at their side, dramatizing it.

Had the parents not made this into a circus, Michael likely would have allowed the entire family to be in the room.

[Generator]

112. Okay my rant

Then I'm shutting the f up about this case.

How the fuck would anyone know the exact time she was gonna die? The parents could have been going potty-who would they blame for their bladder or would they sue the coffee company?

Do these people have a shred of grace????????????


Can they ever stop their fucking whinning? And blaming?? Is that what their religion is all about??

Shamless and graceless to the bitter end. How can anbody have any respect for these people at this point?

And for those that buy this crap the media peddles-haven't you learned anything yet? Do you know what hysteria and propaganda are? Do you know that Iraq is responsible for 9/11 and Bush is blameless on everything?

STOP USING YOUR EMOTION, stop being manipulated and use common sense.

God bless and RIP TS. You are finally free.

[ultraist]

115. They had a sniper on the roof and bomb sniffing dogs

CNN reported. Those pro life cultists are mentally disturbed and the cops know how violent they can be.

How sad that they had to park a sniper on the roof and have bomb sniffing dogs at a hospital where people go to die.

[geomon666]

119. Photos of the day.

Turn out the lights. The party is over.






This one is just plain scary.

[ultraist]

124. Terri's brother had a fight with the cop ten minutes before she died

The Hospice administration asked him to leave the room while they did an assessement and he got into an argument with the cop.

The parents were not even there. Michael's attorney said that Michael wanted Terri to have a loving and peaceful death and in light of the brothers' behavior and previous incidents, he knew that would not be possible if he were in the room.

[Lindacooks]

127. Please post this as a new thread

because it's very important.

[VTMechEngr]

140. Mike wanted to be with his wife when she died.

If the parents were not the nutcases they are, they could have been there too.

[cap]

141. michael could have barred them from the hospital room

right from the start if that was what he wanted. It was his right as the legal guardian to bar anyone from the room whenever he wanted. He could have barred all the priests, activists, and politicians that accompanied the Schindlers if he had wished.

[amazona]

144. can you blame him?

You reap what you sow. It might have been small and petty of me but I would have done the same. It is not so "obvious" to me that these parents loved their daughter. In my church, we were taught that love is action, not words, and keeping a body alive without hope of recovering brain function is cruel beyond telling. I know we are supposed to believe that she could not feel pain, but I am not so sure. Animals without cerebral cortex show every indication of being able to experience fear and pain. We don't really know, we know only that her higher brain functions were permanently destroyed and that she could never learn anything or gain anything from being kept in that state. So don't tell me about these loving parents.

[Stryguy]

145. Perhaps he didn't want to listen to them.

Perhaps in the last few minutes of life that the love of his life and he would share.. he didn't want to listen to her dad keep telling him that he's killing her and he's a murderer.

Perhaps he's the one that loves her the most in life and death.

and the parents are spotlight hungry money grubbing morons that drove her to eating disorders as a child.

We'll never know? BS.. If they sell their story as movie of the week or a book and he doesn't.. We'll know exactly what it was all about.

[Donailin]

151. Exactly.

And besides, since they've brought the Catholic Church right up to the Pope to make comment on his personal life. With only one side of the issue. I would be a raving lunatic if I were persecuted like that.

[WoodrowFan]

147. I feel little sympathy for them if it's true

Even if it's true (I haven't read everything yet so I am reserving judgement) I feel very little sympathy for them. They turned their daughter into a vessel to act out their own political theater** and smeared Michael for years as everything from a lier to an abused to a would-be murdered. If he kept them out of the room I think it's a little just karma for them.


**I feel no sympathy for the arguement "they thought they were doing the right thing!" Yeah, so did the woman who drowned her kids so they'd go to heaven. Doing an awful thing because you think it's right doesn't make it less of an awful thing.

[Donailin]

149. If you look at where's he's coming from

these parents essentially are the cause of not only the Catholic Church but the radical wing of the US of A insinuating that he's a murderer on NATIONAL TV. And the rhetoric has gotten so strong right up until the last minute that I myself would have been angry enough to deny the parents a hell of a lot more. I heard the brother say the other day that 'they didn't know the circumstances surrounding Terry's death, that maybe Michael strangled her.' On national fucking TV. A blatant LIE.

As much as folks would like to believe the juicy gossip that Miichael beat her into this condition and is a no-good scumbag, the facts don't support the argument. And they never have.

Everyone's pespective seems to be, I would never allow my daughter/wife to starve to death. That's the false question, the true question is: How long would you want to be kept on a feeding tube while being in a persistent vegatative state? No one, I mean NO ONE who is on the side of the parents will answer that question truthfully. But the truth is no one would want to live like that for any period of time! Right! Neither would terry!

[Elidor]

150. Hey, is that kool-aid you're drinking? Yum!

I LOVE kool-aid!

[LibertyorDeath]

154. "These parents obviously loved their daughter"

That's not what I see

What I see is not Love

I see two Selfish individuals denying the wishes
of a person they are supposed to love dearly.

They are at a minimum mentally ill in some way

They are certainly NOT PARENTS!!!!!

[roguevalley]

163. When I was a teacher sometimes things would happen that were

equal in dynamics to this. A set of dimwitted parents would get divorced and then there would the child's conference. I wish I had a nickel for every parent who wanted SEPARATE conferences because they couldn't suffer for TEN SECONDS a conference together FOR THE GOOD OF THEIR CHILD! Their personal animosity and hatred trumped the child.

Some dimwits would come each with new husband or wife/girlfriend and try and trump each other's interest etc in front of the other. I wanted to slap all their faces. Contraversy brings out true character.

The Schindlers paraded their 'character' in front of the cameras of the world and alligned themselves with demons to get their way, same as a number of parents I faced who would talk to me so I could repeat their words to "THAT BASTARD" they were married too. It didn't matter we were all in the same room at the time. As for Michael, he's spoken through his lawyer. He's held himself with dignity under a CRIMINALLY WITHERING assault from EVERY DUMBASS FUCKWAD IN THE WESTERN HEMISPHERE! I can't imagine being him but I applaud him because he PUT TERRI FIRST!

End of story.

[LibertyorDeath]

168. Thank you for such a cogent response

Those look like some well Love Dogs.

:toast:

[LittleClarkie]

166. They're not allowed at the funeral either

I think there is a fear that there will be a scene. The circus should be over now.

And Michael is never in the room when the parents visit. So he just might have wanted to be there when Terri died, but since it was getting so close, and he couldn't be in the room with them, that might have influenced his decision.

I also agree that we don't know but half the story, as usual. Really, I don't know what we're all doing in these peoples business anyway. It's truly between them.

[tammywammy]

167. They're not allowed at her funeral, but they're not barred from having

their own memorial. And I think that's best. After the names and accusations they've been spreading, I don't understand why they'd want to be there with Michael. I can only imagine what kind of hell would have broken loose if all of them were in the room when she passed on, and what could happen at a funeral with all of them.

[mondo joe]

170. I don't see any obvious love. I see some very mentally ill people

with major control issues.

If they loved their daughter they would have found a way to make peace with this, rather than creating a self glorifying circus.