I really wish you all would cut Jesse Jackson some slack

[CatWoman]

He is doing nothing more than holding onto his beliefs.

PERIOD.

[Cuban_Liberal]

1. We can't have that, CatWoman!

It must mean he's a closet freeper...

:eyes:

[jdots]

18. Yeah everyone is a closet freeper now

if you stick up for some religious belief you are a freeper, if you read conspiracy humor you are a freeper .
New Rules everyone is a freeper DUH !
We seem to be doing what the repukes want us to do= devide so they can conquer.

[Cuban_Liberal]

20. Exactly.

God forbid (pun intended) that you should voice a religious belief here, even if you're sincere.

[Tandalayo_Scheisskopf]

60. I did, yesterday. Kinda.

I've experienced worse than the reactions. No biggy.

Mind you, as the religious people go, I am a poor, poor example. ;-)

[Darranar]

89. It isn't a religious belief. It's a moral one...

I could see an atheist adopting the same position.

[Kathy in Cambridge]

93. Yes, but it will fall on deaf ears. moral =religious to some

as a Catholic, I see more morality lately outside organized religion than within it.

[Kathy in Cambridge]

61. No one has accused anyone of being a freeper

that's against the rules.

Persecution complexes on the other hand...

[goodboy]

2. I agree he's holding onto his beliefs, but should he allow himself

to become a republican lap dog? should he allow himself to be used as a political tool to add legitimacy to what the RW is trying to do?

I don't think so, and I really feel that this is what's happening.

I'm very wary of this, especially after seeing Norml's JJ media thread. Did you read it?

[Lucky Luciano]

3. Agreed. I think he is sincere

especially since it does not pander to his supporters.

[FreedomAngel82]

6. It's a private personal affair

PERIOD. Everybody there needs to butt out and go home!

[MichiganVote]

10. Amen to that

[Walt Starr]

4. Sorry, Catwoman, I am as vehement on this position as I am on

reproductive rights.

It's a deal breaker for me.

[MessiahRp]

5. I wonder if Jackson being on their side

on this is sending Freepers into an aneurysm. They tend to blame him for everything that's wrong with everything and Fox/Murdoch made sure to make the guy a target as often as possible on their broadcasts.

My issue is that it's obvious that the majority of the people siding with the Schindler's are the crazy maniacal Right Wingers and you usually don't lie in bed with the Devil even if you agree with him on one insignificant issue.

Rp

[goodboy]

13. I think associating with the likes of Randall Terry and Sean Hannity

is scary...and our side cannot afford to be associated with those freaks.

I'm sorry, but I really do feel he's being used. And he is so sincere about how he feels about this issue, he doesn't even realize he's a tool. (in this situation)

[hinachan]

92. Talk about being closed-minded!

<<My issue is that it's obvious that the majority of the people siding with the Schindler's are the crazy maniacal Right Wingers and you usually don't lie in bed with the Devil even if you agree with him on one insignificant issue.>>

We're all human, and therefore there are many shades of gray between the black and white we call "left" and "right". Not all Republicans agree 100% with right-wingers, and not all Democrats agree 100% with radical liberals. It's getting scary, how Democrats who don't toe the party line are being flamed and rejected on these forums, lately. I'm beginning to see how the moderate Republicans felt, when the Far Right began to take over.

And BTW, Terri Schiavo's life isn't "one insignificant issue". It's a human life, and issues don't get more significant than that.

[MessiahRp]

94. I hate to wake you up to reality but...

those maniacal right wingers are purposely destroying our country and have attempted in every way to basically tell even the moderate Dems to piss off by attempting such things as the Nuclear Option on filibusters and having backdoor meetings on bills and presenting them on the floor without Dems even seeing them.

Fuck being nice to them or thinking we should side with them on anything. Check out ol' Holy Joe Lieberman and other Dinos and ask them how the DLC is doing these days. Being a Democrat distinctly means NOT being a Republican.

Being Moderate these days means being on the right thanks to how far right Bush and the RW cronies in the media have pulled political discourse here.

Don't give me shit about how liberals are so crazy or far out there. The problem is that just like many other moderates, they've been pulled so far to the right they don't recognize what moderate is anymore.

Saying we don't want to get in bed with the far right on any issue is hardly crazy liberal speak.

Rp

[blm]

7. I don't fault anyone who's being sincere and that includes Jesse.

There are no sincere Republicans, though. They are fascists hiding behind masks of piety. EVERYTHING is an opportunity to further their power.

[Cuban_Liberal]

9. Thank you, blm.

:hi:

[dave502d]

8. Your right CatWoman, Thank you. n/t

[democracyindanger]

11. Well, he's actually promoting them by participating in a media circus

And, given his visibility, is knowingly inflaming said media circus.

[goodboy]

14. right, which is what I said earlier...(nt)

[mondo joe]

12. But isn't that what everyone is doing?

Seriously - isn't Randal Terry holding onto his beliefs too?

[goodboy]

16. yes he is...see, nobody doubs JJ is sincere, not even me, my main

concern is that he's being used to add legitimacy to the RW's attempt to destroy our judiciary and our country.

[Stand and Fight]

17. Sure... But...

But Randall Terry has used extremist words like, "If Terri dies all hell is going to break loose." I don't see Rev. Jackson making thinly veiled threats... :eyes:

[mondo joe]

24. Sure. And that's an improvement on Randall Terry. But if the standard

is sincerity, I don't see what makes him any different than anyone else.

[Stand and Fight]

82. Consistency.

Terry Randall believes in killing abortion doctors -- I don't think that this fact along with his thinly veiled threat bodes well for his integrity in this matter. Jesse Jackson -- while likely misguided -- is a strong opponent of the death penalty and has been for years. Can the same be said for the likes of DeLay, Bush, Frist or Terry? Surely not.

[CatWoman]

19. Jesse is consistent in his beliefs

I can't say the same about Terry.

[goodboy]

23. well, I don't want to open a can of worms here, but did you see him

down in Texas standing up for Sun Hudson?

[CatWoman]

26. um, did you see ANYONE standing up for him?

I didn't.

[goodboy]

28. so why Mrs Schiavo then?

Is it the cameras and the 3 ring circus?

(i love you catwoman, don't get mad at me)

[Cuban_Liberal]

29. Why not? n/t

[goodboy]

32. well in the interest of the consistency argument, I think it is a valid

question.

[Cuban_Liberal]

35. Take that logic and run with it.

Following that logic, he should be at every bedside in the US where any issue such as these two present themselves. Think that's humanly possible?

:shrug:

[mondo joe]

38. Right. Why be at any except the most publicized?

What would be the point in that?

[Cuban_Liberal]

40. Because youre trying to sway a large number of people.

Mass media, mass audience.

[mondo joe]

54. So it's about the exposure?

Gotcha'.

[Cuban_Liberal]

56. Of course it is.

Well DUH! As Dillinger answered when they asked him why he robbed banks, "Because that where the money is". Pinellas Park is where the cameras are!

:eyes:

PS--- Youdidn't 'get me' on anything...

[mondo joe]

71. Absolutely - morality should always be played out for the greatest

publicity possible.

Understood.

[Cuban_Liberal]

72. Too bad that's not what I said.

But if it works for you, so be it.

[mondo joe]

79. Don't worry - I understand the mercenary ethics position.

It's just not my style.

[goodboy]

42. come on, Cube...you know that's not what I'm saying...there is a glaring

difference between the case of Sun Hudson and Mrs. Schiavo..


<>

[Cuban_Liberal]

47. You're correct.

There was no chance to get his message out to hundreds of millions via the mass media in the Hudson case.

[goodboy]

51. same philosopy the pukes are using, and I fear they're using JJ too.

[CatWoman]

34. I don't know "why Schiavo"

why Marge Schott?

I was repulsed by him jumping into that debate.

But as I said, he's consistent in his beliefs.

[democracyindanger]

36. Answer: Publicity

He's definitely consistent in his belief of PR.

[CatWoman]

43. and he used that "publicity"

to shine a spotlite on black-on-black crime.

I don't have a problem with that.

[democracyindanger]

65. So what's he shining the spotlight on now?

The completely phony "culture of life"?

The advocation of usurping the judicial system?

The over-the-top politicization of an intensely private family matter?

'Cause he's not talking about health care.

He's not talking about political trickery.

He's not talking about a religion that's been hijacked, and then in turn, used to hijack an entire political party which then hijacked an entire democracy.

And he's definitely not talking about Sun Hudson.

[goodboy]

67. Kick...nice post.

[CatWoman]

75. .....

ulysses Wed Mar-30-05 09:32 PM
Response to Original message
31. I'll give him major props, actually, for trying to widen the discussion to include hunger among the poor.

[democracyindanger]

He also did a photo op with Jeb Bush

Jesse Jackson: Feed the poor, Vote for Bush. Way to go, Jess!

[goodboy]

37. I do not doubt he is sincere, not for a second, however, do you think

it's possible that he's unwittingly allowed himself to become a tool for the right to say, "see? You liberals got it all wrong, look, even JJ agrees with us" That's all I'm saying.

[mondo joe]

25. I don't know - I think Randall Terry is pretty consistent. At least

what I know of him.

But I'm not trying to say he's just like Randall Terry.

I'm only saying I think most people there are just holding onto their beliefs. For me, that's not the standard.

[CatWoman]

27. Randall is not consistent.

Randi Rhodes did the rundown on him.

[mondo joe]

30. It might be that I don't know enough about him - but the bits I know

are consistent. But it's not as if I follow him or anything.

[animuscitizen]

73. Randall Terry is not consistent on "family values"--here's why:

There were publicized reports of domestic violence when he was married to his ex-wife (about 10 years ago). He had an affair with his young assistant, divorced his wife, and I think he married his mistress. I believe I read something that said he has a severed relationship with his 2 daughters, because they both had children out of wedlock. You would think that "Mr. Family Virtue" would be happy that his daughters did not run to the abortion clinic.

Randall Terry has no redeeming social value. He is not as stellar example of right wing Christian values. He is a narcissistic, self-aggrandizing windbag. Meanwhile, he places himself on a pedestal, as a spokesperson for morality, virtue, and "the right to life". Barf.

Respectfully Yours,
animus
(a lady with strong feelings about Mr. Randall Terry)

[mondo joe]

78. While I have no respect for Randal Terry, my only knowledge of him

is as an anti-choice biblical values sort of guy, rather than the more soft fuzzy "family values" type.

So I dunno if that's inconsistent or not.

And we could certainly point to some inconsistencies in JJ's life.

But that's not really an issue for me. I just don't think "holding onto his beliefs" MEANS anything. I care what the beliefs are more than how consistent someone is.

[animuscitizen]

81. I meant "family values" in a hard core, bible-thumper kind of way

Divorce, family cut-offs, affairs, beating the wife--these things don't coincide with a consistent bible bathing, fundamentalist. At the very least, the man is hypocritical.

Inconsistency smells like dishonesty. Oops--looks like Randall has broken another Christian virtue.

Most extremists fall prey to these types of problems. It is hard to maintain any extreme lifestyle, without falling prey to the normal failings of human existence.

[mondo joe]

88. I don't know - sounds pretty old testament to me. But that's

really sort of beside the point for me. I don't give anyone points for "holding onto their beliefs" - it's what they do that I care about.

[goodboy]

90. ditto (nt)

[Darranar]

86. Jesse Jackson is anti-war and anti-poverty...

So no, that is not what "everyone is doing" at all.

He is consistently pro-life, not "pro-life" when it suits him while usually being pro-death on a massive scale. In this way he is very different from the right-wingers on this matter.

[Stand and Fight]

15. Thanks CatWoman!

At least he is being true to his beliefs. I don't think the same can be said for Tom DeLay, George W., or Willy Frist.

[Rick Myers]

21. I agree...

I don't see him as 'switching sides' or anything else. He's a good guy and he is NOT trying to play politics. He's supporting his beliefs...

[YellowRubberDuckie]

22. He has a habit of latching onto very public, media-heavy causes.

I won't cut him some slack. He's only doing it for his own benefit. And he's holding onto his own belief that he needs to be on camera and the center of attention.
Duckie

[vpigrad]

57. "doing it for his own benefit"

I think you hit the nail on the head there. He has never put the party first, and he is fighting against the party in this case.

[ulysses]

31. I'll give him major props, actually,

for trying to widen the discussion to include hunger among the poor.

[KG]

49. major props from me, too, for the lifetime of good works

he man has done tons of great things for 'the people' over the years.

he's just wrong the schivo thing.

[ulysses]

52. agreed.

[seabeyond]

33. i do too, but dont look for goodboy to, wink

actually if he has gone into that family and in compassion been able to reason with them, bring them some peace, allow the to say goodbye, wont fault him at all

[goodboy]

39. ALERT! You called me out....hahahahahahahaha.....

:P:P:P:P:P:P:P:P:P

[CatWoman]

41. oh, calm the fuck down

[goodboy]

44. I was just being goofy...(nt)

[CatWoman]

48. ......

:D

[seabeyond]

46. i dont know the rules

never reaD THE rules. i am so good i dont need rules. and generally that has served me well

[drdon326]

45. Gee Catwoman...I agree with you.

next time you can cut me some slack when we disagree.

[CatWoman]

50. NEVER!!!!!!

:D

[drdon326]

58. Here CatWoman....now theyre slamming Rev.Al Sharpton

make yourself useful.....

http://www.democraticunderground.com/discuss/duboard.php?az=view_all&address=132x1696062

[CatWoman]

59. oooooooooooooo

your new website www.dicksRus?

you know I love ya.

[stevedeshazer]

53. Slack here

I knocked on doors during the '84 primary for Jesse, not an easy thing to do in the all-white town I lived in. I believed in his message then, and I still do.

I don't agree with what he's doing here, but I'm not gonna kick him to the curb for it. I think he is sincere. As to the charges that he is pandering to the press, well tough shit. That's politics.

The Radical Right has been excoriating Democrats because, according to them, we all hate Terri Schiavo and want her to die. In that sense, Jesse is proving them wrong.

:hi:

[CatWoman]

55. BINGO!!!!!!

:hi:

[Kathy in Cambridge]

62. I agree-it's consistent with his beliefs

:thumbsup:

[Bluebear]

63. Does he always have to hold onto his beliefs in camera range?

;)

[CatWoman]

64. sometimes that's the only way

get a good look at our access these days?

[goodboy]

68. He met with Jeb bush today, and is coming on Scarborough now.

[DemocratSinceBirth]

66. Thank You

eom

[oasis]

69. Jesse's move underscores the diversity that exists in the liberal ranks.

Those who think Jesse should approach this issue from their point of view are laboring under the assumption that the left must all move in lockstep.

Throughout Jesse's much publicized, high profile career, he has registered more Democrats than all the anti-Jesse DUers put together.

Jesse's out there and he'll be out there. They can call him publicity hound, camera hog, whatever.

You don't get a following by chaining yourself to computer keyboard.

Damn the torpedoes Jesse, full speed ahead.

[goodboy]

70. He's gonna be on Scarborough, I'll bet you 10 buck, and i mean it

that scarborough will say something like, "why aren't other liberals doing what you're doing" or "you're a liberal, and you agree with our side on this, why do the dems/libs want terri to starve to death" His appearance on Joe Suckborough will prove he's being used as a right wing tool.


10 bucks. You in Cat?

[goodboy]

74. Hey Catwoman!?!?!? Are you there?

[CatWoman]

76. Hon, I've got to go to bed!!!!!

we'll continue this tomorrow.

I don't get MSNBC on the tv in the bedroom.

[goodboy]

77. ok, we'll it was already on, but since you missed it, you don't owe me

[EFerrari]

80. Jesse Jackson has nothing to prove to me. Now or ever. n/t

[Zomby Woof]

83. He has always been a shyster

Preachers are usually hucksters, and he is no exception. Wiped his hands in MLK's blood, and smeared it all over him, saying "look at me!"

His beliefs aren't squat, except to promote All Things Jesse.

I have always disliked the man, this new shit is no surprise.

[goodboy]

87. Even if he isn't a shyster, why should he lie down with those stinking

flea bitten mutts?

[Darranar]

84. Agreed. His beliefs are perfectly legitimate and should be respected...

The fact that he agrees with a large portion of the Right on the issue is immaterial, at least until he starts adopting the rest of their anti-life ideology.

[SaveElmer]

85. Yeah his belief in getting as much publicity for himself as possible

In my opinion he has been entirely dishonorable on this. If he was so concerned why didn't he get involved earlier when he might have been able to do something. Now, he swoops in at the last minute, is able to get his mug on TV, but doesn't actually have to do anything other than pose for the camera, and schmooxe with Randall Terry and Jeb Bush!

I voted for him in 1988...but I will never trust him or his motives again!

[sundancekid]

91. I would if ONLY he could apply his beliefs on an equal opportunity basis

Where the hell is Jesse Jackson's outrage about what happened to Baby Sun in Texas?????? That life was expendable???? That plug could be pulled over the loud protestations of his mother without nary a whimper from the good reverend???? And that's because the err-on-the-side-of life Gov. G.W. Bush signed the TX law that actually fails to err only on the side of the hospitals' bottom line -- since that black infant's family couldn't pay, he got literally CUT OFF medical extraordinary care.

Sorry. I can't cut slack for public displays of UNEVEN application of beliefs, justice and mercy. What? Not enough TV in Texas? Not enough political capital to ride THAT horse? I'm sick and tired of the worst forms of opportunism and capricious applications of principles -- whether on their side or ours.

[Tierra_y_Libertad]

95. Randall Terry is "holding on to his beliefs" too. Doesn't make the right.

[Modem Butterfly]

96. I have a lot of respect for Jesse Jackson

But he is dead wrong on this issue.

While I find it sickening to see him on Hannity and Colmes, I must admit he is holding his own on drawing a connection between the cuts to Medicaid and the caps on malpractice awards and the Terri Schiavo situation.