Mercury and Autism

[bloom]

http://www.democraticunderground.com/discuss/duboard.ph...


From the story that was put out on March 16th - Texas Study that linked mercury pollution to autism - you might get the picture nobody had studied it or something.

This site has a lot of information. Table A - near the top is interesting.

This was written in 2001.

http://www.vaccinationnews.com/DailyNews/July2001/AutismUniqueMercPoison.htm





Summary Comparison of Characteristics
of Autism & Mercury Poisoning


Mercury Poisoning (top)
Autism (bottom)

Psychiatric Disturbances

Social deficits, shyness, social withdrawal
Social deficits, social withdrawal, shyness

Depression, mood swings; mask face
Depressive traits, mood swings; flat affect

Anxiety
Anxiety

Schizoid tendencies, OCD traits
Schizophrenic & OCD traits; repetitiveness

Lacks eye contact, hesitant to engage others
Lack of eye contact, avoids conversation

Irrational fears
Irrational fears

Irritability, aggression, temper tantrums
Irritability, aggression, temper tantrums

Impaired face recognition
Impaired face recognition



Speech, Language & Hearing Deficits

Loss of speech, failure to develop speech
Delayed language, failure to develop speech

Dysarthria; articulation problems
Dysarthria; articulation problems

Speech comprehension deficits
Speech comprehension deficits

Verbalizing & word retrieval problems
Echolalia; word use & pragmatic errors

Sound sensitivity
Sound sensitivity

Hearing loss; deafness in very high doses
Mild to profound hearing loss

Poor performance on language IQ tests
Poor performance on verbal IQ tests

<more>

[trotsky]

1. Please don't equate methyl mercury (the kind found in the environment)

with ethyl mercury (the kind found in the preservative thimerosal).

That confusion alone is responsible for 99% of the vaccine scare.

[bloom]

2. People can take vaccines

The thimerosal has mostly been taken out - as it should have been.


Mercury is mercury. I don't think the CDC or anyone else has proven otherwise.

[trotsky]

3. I'm sorry that you are ignorant on this topic.

Methyl mercury compounds are handled differently by the body than ethyl mercury ones. You should inform yourself before trying to scare people.

[bloom]

7. People can read this stuff for themselves

There are plenty of people who disagree with you.

Maybe you haven't read all that you could on the subject.

[mzmolly]

48. Again Trotsky ... YOU resort to calling others ignorant.

Several cases of acute mercury poisoning from thimerosal-containing products were found in the medical literature with total doses of thimerosal ranging from approximately 3 mg/kg to several hundred mg/kg. These reports included the administration of immune globulin (gamma globulin) (Matheson et al. 1980) and hepatitis B immune globulin (Lowell et al. 1996), choramphenicol formulated with 1000 times the proper dose of thimerosal as a preservative (Axton 1972), thimerosal ear irrigation in a child with tympanostomy tubes (Rohyans et al. 1994), thimerosal treatment of omphaloceles in infants (Fagan et al. 1977), and a suicide attempt with thimerosal (Pfab et al. 1996). These studies reported local necrosis, acute hemolysis, disseminated intravascular coagulation, acute renal tubular necrosis, and central nervous system injury including obtundation, coma, and death. (IOM)

While it is believed that ethyl mercury acts differently in the body than does thimerosal, that obviously doesn't render it harmless.

[mzmolly]

50. Some here "worship" vaccines and fear questioning them.

Vaccination is like akin to God to some?

:hi:

[lastliberalintexas]

4. It wasn't just a scare

There were children who were gravely injured by the mercury preservative which was used. I'm glad the medical community disagrees with you and that mercury is no longer used in vaccines. It was discontinued as of 2001, I believe. But people might check with their doctors to ensure that the vaccines used in their offices do not contain mercury.

[trotsky]

11. It was discontinued, but not because of any research.

No one has proven any causal link between thimerosal and autism, but vaccine manufacturers pulled it anyway because too many people (out of ignorance and the scare tactics of others) were avoiding vaccinations altogether, and that will - GUARANTEED - lead to a much worse public health problem than anything thimerosal could do.

Thimerosal is no longer used in the MMR vaccine or most other common childhood vaccines, but still used in many others. Safely.

[mzmolly]

49. There are no existing safety guidelines for ethylmercury

use, so tell me who decides what's "proven" Trotsky you or the drug companies?


Even the FDA equates methyl with ethyl mercury ...

As part of the FDAMA review, the FDA evaluated the amount of mercury an infant might receive in the form of ethylmercury from vaccines under the U.S. recommended childhood immunization schedule and compared these levels with existing guidelines for exposure to methylmercury, as there are no existing guidelines for ethylmercury, the metabolite of thimerosal. At the time of this review in 1999, the maximum cumulative exposure to mercury from vaccines in the recommended childhood immunization schedule was within acceptable limits for the methylmercury exposure guidelines set by FDA, ATSDR, and WHO. However, depending on the vaccine formulations used and the weight of the infant, some infants could have been exposed to cumulative levels of mercury during the first six months of life that exceeded EPA recommended guidelines for safe intake of methylmercury.

[bloom]

5. P.S. That doesn't mean the rest of the mercury isn't a problem.

I think people should be aware and avoid all sources as much as possible.

[trotsky]

9. Never said it wasn't.

Methyl mercury in our environment is highly toxic, and EVERYWHERE. I applaud every effort to work towards the elimination of releasing mercury into the environment.

I just don't want people getting confused between types of mercury.

[mirandaod]

8. Don't care.

It's not worth taking a chance. I don't want ANY kind of mercury to be given to my future grandchildren. Something is causing this ridiculous rise in autism, and until we figure out otherwise, NO MERCURY.

[trotsky]

12. Rates of autism today

are the same in unvaccinated children as they are in vaccinated. That's pretty much the death blow for the anti-vaccine crowd.

[mirandaod]

13. I vaccinated my kids

who are now in their 20's. I'm not antivaccine, but I don't believe they should be preserved with mercury. Why take even a small chance?

[trotsky]

14. Mainly because there is no data to support the idea there's any risk.

Thimerosal is a cheap and highly effective preservative. The net benefits it brings to the table (making it far cheaper and easier to distribute vaccines to people) are huge.

Watch it with the anti-vax crowd, though. They'll suck you in with false claims about thimerosal, but soon start trying to sell the nonsense that vaccines overall cause more harm than good.

[bloom]

16. I'm not in that crowd then

I think people should get vaccines - I just think people shouldn't get more than necessary. Like babies don't need the HepB vaccine or the Chicken-pox one ( or the Flu one, for that matter).

I think it's better to wait a bit for some of them and not have too many all at once.



I don't know what your deal is - do you really think babies should get as many as soon as possible?

[trotsky]

18. There's no data to suggest that you can get "too many" vaccines.

http://pediatrics.aappublications.org/cgi/content/full/109/1/124?ijkey=88fa50d3de8536a815959eb9a368bfb6fdb5820f

Addressing Parents’ Concerns: Do Multiple Vaccines Overwhelm or Weaken the Infant’s Immune System?

--> Recent surveys found that an increasing number of parents are concerned that infants receive too many vaccines. Implicit in this concern is that the infant’s immune system is inadequately developed to handle vaccines safely or that multiple vaccines may overwhelm the immune system. In this review, we will examine the following: 1) the ontogeny of the active immune response and the ability of neonates and young infants to respond to vaccines; 2) the theoretic capacity of an infant’s immune system; 3) data that demonstrate that mild or moderate illness does not interfere with an infant’s ability to generate protective immune responses to vaccines; 4) how infants respond to vaccines given in combination compared with the same vaccines given separately; 5) data showing that vaccinated children are not more likely to develop infections with other pathogens than unvaccinated children; and 6) the fact that infants actually encounter fewer antigens in vaccines today than they did 40 or 100 years ago.

....

Current studies do not support the hypothesis that multiple vaccines overwhelm, weaken, or "use up" the immune system. On the contrary, young infants have an enormous capacity to respond to multiple vaccines, as well as to the many other challenges present in the environment. By providing protection against a number of bacterial and viral pathogens, vaccines prevent the "weakening" of the immune system and consequent secondary bacterial infections occasionally caused by natural infection.

[bloom]

22. So that is one opinion.

One in every six children born in the United States, or 630,000 per year, are exposed to potentially unsafe levels of mercury during pregnancy from contaminated seafood in the maternal diet, creating a background level of exposure that could be exacerbated by cumulative and frequent mercury doses from vaccinations (Mahaffey 2004). Virtually all children in the U.S. were vaccinated repeatedly with mercury-containing vaccine during the 1990s; if a percentage of these children had a metabolic imbalance that increased their vulnerability to mercury, this near universal exposure could help explain the dramatic nationwide increase in autism that followed directly on the heels of this abrupt rise in thimerosal use. The findings discussed here, that autistic children share a common deficit in antioxidant protection, call into question the conclusion that mercury in vaccines is uniformly safe for all children, and underscores the need for a broader look at the role of environmental chemicals in the autism epidemic.


Every existing study that has failed to find a link between thimerosal exposure and autism has looked at disease rates in vaccinated children without regard to their individual metabolism. To properly investigate the role of mercury-containing shots in a vulnerable group, researchers would have to compare autism rates in children with the same type of vulnerability. This has not been done.

http://www.mercuryexposure.org/index.php?article_id=276

[trotsky]

23. Yeah, the opinion of the American Academy of Pediatrics.

I'm inclined to trust them.

[bloom]

25. Yeah - they probably trust the CDC

But - I'm not necessarily inclined to - on this matter at least:

"Verstraeten's initial analysis reveals two important facts," Blaxill said. "First, CDC official were aware in 1999 of an eleven fold increase in autism risk in children who received vaccines containing thimerosal versus children who received no exposure. Second, in four subsequent generations of reports using this data, the CDC never revealed their initial risk findings to the Institute of Medicine, nor to Congress when called upon to present evidence during relevant hearings.

Thimerosal, a mercury-containing preservative used for years in many vaccines, lies at the center of the vaccine-autism debate. Although the dangers of early childhood mercury exposure have long been recognized, vaccines, including those given to infants, still contain this potent neurotoxin.


"In the most straightforward analysis of the risk of mercury exposure in children, Verstraeten discovered significant extremely elevated risks of autism as well as a range of childhood developmental disorder including ADHD and sleep disorders. In emails accompanying his analyses, Verstraeten invited his colleagues to find ways to explain away these findings. Predictably, his alarming analyses were suppressed by the CDC. Only watered-down reports were ever shared and fourth of these was made public several years late, discounting any autism-mercury link," continued Blaxill."

http://www.mercuryexposure.org/index.php?article_id=220



It's mostly been congressmen who had grandkids who were affected by mercury/autism that have been trying to get any helpful legislation introduced and remove the harmful legislation that others bring. I suppose it takes having a family member with it before people take it seriously.

[trotsky]

27. It's hard to accept anything from your site

when they perpetuate the methyl/ethyl mercury confusion. They're either ignorantly or deliberately obfuscating the issue, and either way, should not be trusted.

Although the dangers of early childhood mercury exposure have long been recognized, vaccines, including those given to infants, still contain this potent neurotoxin.

No one disputes the dangers of METHYL mercury exposure. The body has a really hard time processing and getting rid of it - that's why it's such a potent neurotoxin. But thimerosal is not METHYL mercury, it's ETHYL mercury. By equating the two, your site is 100% wrong.

You can see why it's easy to get misled.

[bloom]

32. read this then:

According to someone who works in the field - see down thread - this is from the long-standing respected autism group:

http://www.autism-society.org/site/News?news_iv_ctrl=-1

"The Weldon-Maloney bill came in response to increased scientific research from respected institutions such as Columbia University, University ofArkansas, Northeastern University, and the Massachusetts Institute of Technology which clarifies that the ethyl mercury in thimerosal can be harmful to the brains of developing fetuses and young children.  Many families in the autism community have called for this action since the 1999 announcement."

[trotsky]

35. See below. n/t

[mzmolly]

51. You shouldn't be so trusting as I've shown you they are on the payroll of

vaccine manufacturers.

Did you trust them when they recommended the rotavirus vaccine too?

[earth mom]

68. Do you work for the drug companies??? Sure sounds like it...

And you sure didn't answer the question posed to you above about WHY the thimerosal was removed from the vaccinations. I'm sure the drug companies know why. Wink, Wink. :eyes:

Also vaccinations are given at a MUCH YOUNGER AGE than they were 20 years ago. Parents need to be aware of that. It's fear mongering to promote that Measles Mumps and Rubella will be rampant because parents wait and hold off on allowing the administering of vaccinations until their children are a bit older. I know a mom born with Measles-who LIVED and IS HEALTHY-who allowed her natural born child to be jabbed with the MMR with thimerosol at one year of age-yes, that child is autistic! So why don't pediatricians take a history to find out if infants could possibly have antibodies already?

IMO, there is NOT enough known about the cause of Autism-or the VERY PROBABLE FACT THAT MERCURY IS THE CAUSE-because scientists are NOT working together to find the answer. No doubt many scientists are paid to sway their findings to favor and protect the drug companies. :grr:

[bloom]

15. I don't think that it is really definitive

http://www.bhare.org/2004YearEndLetter.html

Some people disagree with you.

Esp. since there continued to be mercury in vaccines through 2002 or later.

It seems like it should be more obvious in a couple years if autism is going to keep skyrocketing or not.



I'm not esp. attached to the vaccines as being the main way people get mercury - just as being one of the ways. For instance, I think my daughter had all of the mercury necessary to give her Asperger's at birth - but I think that Rho-gam likely played a role (as well as my living near coal plants, amalgams, tuna, other....)

[trotsky]

17. George Bush disagrees with me.

Does that make him right?

http://www.highschoolscience.com/vaccines/vac_autism.html

Let's start with the idea that the MMR is somehow linked to autism. Taylor and others4 looked at autism cases in the United Kingdom from 1979 to 1999. Since the MMR vaccine was introduced in the UK in 1988, this study encompassed 9 years prior to use of the MMR and 11 years after its use began. They found that the autism rates increased steadily from 1979 to 1999, with no increase in the rate after the MMR was introduced. If the MMR were linked to autism, you would expect a "bump" in the autism rate shortly after the MMR became widely-used. No such "bump" occurred. Also, comparing vaccinated children to unvaccinated children, there was no difference in the average age at which diagnosis occurred. If the MMR were linked to vaccination, you would expect that the vaccinated children's autism would occur nearer to the vaccination as compared to unvaccinated children. This was not the case.

[bloom]

19. I have not said

that I thought the MMR vaccine was linked to autism.

From what I read - it didn't contain thimerosal.

That isn't to say that nobody ever thought that - just that is not what I am saying.


I think there did get to be being a lot more vaccines given out through the 80's and 90's. I don't think there was just one thing.

[trotsky]

20. MMR vaccine has been the primary childhood vaccine for decades.

And until just a few years ago, yes, it contained thimerosal.

[mirandaod]

29. what about polio and DPT?

They get 3 doses of those by the time they're 6 months old.

Maybe the sensitivity to mercury varies between individuals - a level that's no problem to one kid is enough to make another kid permanently sick.

[trotsky]

31. And the data would bear that out, if true.

But as it is, it doesn't.

[bloom]

33. I think

you don't want to know.

[trotsky]

36. Of course.

I love having my motives questioned. That's right liberal of ya.

[mzmolly]

54. .

nevermind.

[trotsky]

56. I don't want to get into this with you again, mzmolly.

The poster clearly was ignorant of the difference between the compounds.

You've proven in the past you cannot discuss this issue without taking it to a personal level - so I'd like to avoid interacting with you.

[bloom]

57. I've heard of the difference in the compounds.

You are clearly ignorant of the dangers of ethyl mercury. There is no rational reason to assume that it is safe.

[trotsky]

63. You mean, other than the lack of data showing it's not? n/t

[bloom]

75. Those with an open mind might find this interesting....

Eli Lilly and Thimerosal

By Annette Fuentes

Thimerosal is an organic compound that is 49.6 percent ethylmercury. Eli Lilly and Co., the Indianapolis-based drug giant, developed and registered thimerosal under its trade name Merthiolate in 1929 and began marketing it as an antibacterial, antifungal product. It became the most widely used preservative in vaccines. Thimerosal cannot be used with live-cell vaccines, such as MMR (measles, mumps, rubella) or polio, because it would kill the vaccine. The only research looking into the safety of thimerosal was done in 1930 by Eli Lilly-sponsored doctors, who injected it into 22 patients with meningitis. The human experiments failed to prove that thimerosal was nontoxic. Nonetheless, researchers H.M. Powell and W.A. Jamieson published a study in September 1931 in the American Journal of Hygienethat stated thimerosal had a “low order of toxicity” for humans, without mentioning that the human subjects were ill and subsequently died. Internal Lilly documents from the time, however, revealed that the company’s researchers were worried about Merthiolate’s “burning qualities” when used on the skin. By 1935, Eli Lilly’s Jameison had further evidence of thimerosal’s toxicity when he received a letter from a researcher who had injected it into dogs and saw severe local reactions, leading him to state: “Merthiolate is unsatisfactory as a preservative for serum intended for use on dogs.”

In the 70 years since thimerosal/Merthiolate was developed, the FDA never required Eli Lilly to conduct clinical studies of its safety, despite ample evidence of its toxicity and its highly allergic properties. In fact, the FDA today still refers to the 1931 Powell and Jameison study on its Web site as indication of the “safety and effectiveness” of thimerosal as a preservative. Thimerosal/Merthiolate was widely used in over-the-counter products, including ointments, eye drops, nasal sprays and contact lens solution. In 1998, the FDA finally banned Thimerosal for use in OTC products—18 years after it began a safety review of mercury-containing products. It took another year before the CDC and the FDA would ask manufacturers to remove thimerosal from childhood vaccines. Eli Lilly stopped making Merthiolate-containing products in the mid-’80s but still profits from licensing agreements with pharmaceutical companies around the world.

Eli Lilly faces hundreds of civil lawsuits from parents who blame thimerosal for their autistic children. But the pharmaceutical giant has powerful friends in the White House and in Congress. The elder George Bush sat on Lilly’s board of directors in the 1970s, and White House Budget Director Mitch Daniels was a Lilly executive. Lilly CEO Sidney Taurel was named by President George W. Bush to the Homeland Security Advisory Council. In November 2002, Congress passed a provision, tucked into a spending measure for homeland security, to indemnify Eli Lilly from lawsuits and require families to seek compensation through the federally funded Vaccine Injury Compensation Program. It was repealed in February 2003 after public outcry. Senate Majority Leader Bill Frist (R-Tenn.) still hopes to pass a similar bill. Congressional consideration for Eli Lilly makes sense: In the 2002 election cycle, the company gave more than $1.5 million to federal candidates, with three quarters to Republicans, making it the fourth-biggest giver in the pharmaceutical industry, according to the Center for Responsive Politics. In the current election cycle, the company already has given close to $230,000 (67 percent to Republicans) to federal candidates.

Eli Lilly may be determined to avoid liability for thimerosal, but that doesn’t mean it has abandoned children with neurological problems. This year, the FDA approved Straterra, a new Eli Lilly drug for the treatment of Attention Deficit Hyperactivity Disorder. The irony that Eli Lilly profits from damaged children is not lost on parent Robert Krakow: “When Eli Lilly is promoting Straterra on TV, saying up to 10 percent of children can be helped, you realize what we are up against.”

http://www.inthesetimes.com/site/main/article/649/

[mzmolly]

78. Very interesting to this open minded individual ... thanks.

So sadly ironic.

[bloom]

83. I wasn't thinking of that

the irony...


More info is coming out all the time.

It doesn't make sense to me - all the people who seem to think that all of the information we are ever going to have on the subject has been out there for years or something.

I realize this issue has been debated by others before - but some of the anti-anti-vaccine/thimerosal crowd wouldn't even acknowledge the mercury/autism link. Of course now there is the Texas study.

My tinfoil hat says that the government would rather acknowledge the coal-fired and environmental connection to save the pharmaceutical industry from lawsuits. It seems more difficult to sue if it's one of those out in the environment things.

But a bottle of vaccine with thimerosal that wasn't "rolled" or mixed - where previous healthy children became unhealthy - where there was an obvious lack on the part of Eli Lilly, etc. to prevent know mercury poisoning... sounds like the quite the liability.

[mzmolly]

90. You are exactly right IMHO.

:(

My tinfoil hat says that the government would rather acknowledge the coal-fired and environmental connection to save the pharmaceutical industry from lawsuits. It seems more difficult to sue if it's one of those out in the environment things.

Especially since the Government picks up the tab for vaccine injuries.

http://www.forhealthfreedom.org/Publications/Children/Vaccine.html


"Although states have police power to mandate new vaccines, the federal government is in charge of compensating children and their families for any serious vaccine-related injuries or death. Scientists agree that all medical products, including vaccines, have risks. For many years, vaccine risks went unnoticed and unreported. However, during the 1980s, a national television program publicized the serious side-effects caused by the mandatory DPT vaccine (diphtheria, pertussis, and tetanus).

Consequently, a national grassroots movement was established and parents began questioning the benefits and risks of vaccines. Parents of injured children also began suing vaccine manufacturers. Not surprisingly, vaccine manufacturers began threatening to stop producing vaccines because their liability insurance premiums skyrocketed.

In an attempt to improve vaccine safety and minimize manufacturers' liability, Congress enacted the 'National Childhood Vaccine Injury Act of 1986' (PL 99-660). This law created a Vaccine Injury Compensation Program (VICP) which is administered jointly by the U.S. Federal Claims Court, the Department of Health and Human Services (HHS), and the Department of Justice (DOJ). The compensation program serves as a no-fault alternative to the tort system for resolving claims resulting from adverse reactions to mandatory childhood vaccines, whether administered in the private or public sector.

As a result, all parents must first apply to the federal government for compensation if they feel their child has suffered from a mandatory vaccine. If a claim for compensation is rejected by the federal government, or if parents believe the compensation offered is too inadequate to provide for their child's lifelong care, then parents can then file a vaccine injury lawsuit against the vaccine manufacturer."

[bloom]

77. Safety Data Sheet for THIMEROSAL

MERTHIOLATE SODIUM * MERTORGAN * MERZONIN * MERZONIN SODIUM * SET * SODIUM ETHYLMERCURIC THIOSALICYLATE * SODIUM O-(ETHYLMERCURITHIO) BENZOATE * SODIUM ETHYLMERCURITHIOSALICYLATE * SODIUM MERTHIOLATE * THIMEROSAL * THIMEROSALATE * THIOMERSAL * THIOMERSALATE *

SECTION 3. - - - - - - - - - - HAZARDS IDENTIFICATION - - - - - - - - LABEL PRECAUTIONARY STATEMENTS

HIGHLY TOXIC (USA) VERY TOXIC (EU) VERY TOXIC BY INHALATION, IN CONTACT WITH SKIN AND IF SWALLOWED. DANGER OF CUMULATIVE EFFECTS. MAY CAUSE SENSITIZATION BY INHALATION AND SKIN CONTACT. IRRITATING TO EYES, RESPIRATORY SYSTEM AND SKIN. CALIF. PROP. 65 REPRODUCTIVE HAZARD. TARGET ORGAN(S): NERVES KIDNEYS SENSITIZER. CAUSES IRRITATION. KEEP AWAY FROM FOOD, DRINK AND ANIMAL FEEDINGSTUFFS. AFTER CONTACT WITH SKIN, WASH IMMEDIATELY WITH PLENTY OF WATER. IN CASE OF CONTACT WITH EYES, RINSE IMMEDIATELY WITH PLENTY OF WATER AND SEEK MEDICAL ADVICE. WEAR SUITABLE PROTECTIVE CLOTHING. IN CASE OF ACCIDENT OR IF YOU FEEL UNWELL, SEEK MEDICAL ADVICE IMMEDIATELY (SHOW THE LABEL WHERE POSSIBLE).

SECTION 4. - - - - - - - - - - FIRST-AID MEASURES- - - - - - - - - - IF SWALLOWED, WASH OUT MOUTH WITH WATER PROVIDED PERSON IS CONSCIOUS. CALL A PHYSICIAN IMMEDIATELY. IF INHALED, REMOVE TO FRESH AIR. IF NOT BREATHING GIVE ARTIFICIAL RESPIRATION. IF BREATHING IS DIFFICULT, GIVE OXYGEN. IN CASE OF SKIN CONTACT, FLUSH WITH COPIOUS AMOUNTS OF WATER FOR AT LEAST 15 MINUTES. REMOVE CONTAMINATED CLOTHING AND SHOES. CALL A PHYSICIAN. IN CASE OF CONTACT WITH EYES, FLUSH WITH COPIOUS AMOUNTS OF WATER FOR AT LEAST 15 MINUTES. ASSURE ADEQUATE FLUSHING BY SEPARATING THE EYELIDS WITH FINGERS. CALL A PHYSICIAN.

SECTION 5. - - - - - - - - - FIRE FIGHTING MEASURES - - - -
EXTINGUISHING MEDIA WATER SPRAY. CARBON DIOXIDE, DRY CHEMICAL POWDER OR APPROPRIATE FOAM. SPECIAL FIREFIGHTING PROCEDURES WEAR SELF-CONTAINED BREATHING APPARATUS AND PROTECTIVE CLOTHING TO PREVENT CONTACT WITH SKIN AND EYES. UNUSUAL FIRE AND EXPLOSIONS HAZARDS EMITS TOXIC FUMES UNDER FIRE CONDITIONS. THIS MATERIAL, LIKE MOST MATERIALS IN POWDER FORM, IS CAPABLE OF CREATING A DUST EXPLOSION.

SECTION 6. - - - - - - - - ACCIDENTAL RELEASE MEASURES- - - - - - - - WEAR SELF-CONTAINED BREATHING APPARATUS, RUBBER BOOTS AND HEAVY RUBBER GLOVES. SWEEP UP, PLACE IN A BAG AND HOLD FOR WASTE DISPOSAL. AVOID RAISING DUST. VENTILATE AREA AND WASH SPILL SITE AFTER MATERIAL PICKUP IS COMPLETE. EVACUATE AREA.

SECTION 7. - - - - - - - - - - HANDLING AND STORAGE- - - - - - - - - - REFER TO SECTION 8.

SECTION 8. - - - - - - EXPOSURE CONTROLS/PERSONAL PROTECTION- - - - - SAFETY SHOWER AND EYE BATH. USE ONLY IN A CHEMICAL FUME HOOD. WASH CONTAMINATED CLOTHING BEFORE REUSE. WASH THOROUGHLY AFTER HANDLING. DO NOT BREATHE DUST. DO NOT GET IN EYES, ON SKIN, ON CLOTHING. AVOID PROLONGED OR REPEATED EXPOSURE. NIOSH/MSHA-APPROVED RESPIRATOR. COMPATIBLE CHEMICAL-RESISTANT GLOVES. CHEMICAL SAFETY GOGGLES. KEEP TIGHTLY CLOSED. STORE IN A COOL DRY PLACE.

SECTION 9. - - - - - - - PHYSICAL AND CHEMICAL PROPERTIES - - - - - - APPEARANCE AND ODOR SOLID. PHYSICAL PROPERTIES MELTING POINT: 234 C FLASHPOINT >482F >250C SOLUBILITY: WATER -Z1076 SPECIFIC GRAVITY: 0,5 G

SECTION 10. - - - - - - - - -STABILITY AND REACTIVITY - - - - - - - - STABILITY STABLE. CONDITIONS TO AVOID MAY DISCOLOR ON EXPOSURE TO LIGHT. INCOMPATIBILITIES STRONG OXIDIZING AGENTS STRONG ACIDS STRONG BASES HAZARDOUS COMBUSTION OR DECOMPOSITION PRODUCTS CARBON MONOXIDE, CARBON DIOXIDE MERCURY/MERCURY OXIDES SULFUR OXIDES HAZARDOUS POLYMERIZATION WILL NOT OCCUR.

SECTION 11. - - - - - - - - - TOXICOLOGICAL INFORMATION - - - - - - - ACUTE EFFECTS CAUSES SKIN IRRITATION. MAY BE FATAL IF ABSORBED THROUGH SKIN. CAUSES EYE IRRITATION. MAY BE FATAL IF INHALED. MATERIAL IS IRRITATING TO MUCOUS MEMBRANES AND UPPER RESPIRATORY TRACT

MAY BE FATAL IF SWALLOWED. POSSIBLE ALLERGIC REACTION TO DUST IF INHALED, INGESTED OR IN CONTACT WITH THE SKIN. HYPERSENSITIVITY REACTIONS MANIFESTED BY ERYTHEMA, PAPULAR OR VESICULAR ERUPTIONS OCCUR OCCASIONALLY. ALLERGIC CONJUNCTIVITIS HAS BEEN REPORTED. TO THE BEST OF OUR KNOWLEDGE, THE CHEMICAL, PHYSICAL, AND TOXICOLOGICAL PROPERTIES HAVE NOT BEEN THOROUGHLY INVESTIGATED. CHRONIC EFFECTS TARGET ORGAN(S): NERVES KIDNEYS RTECS #: OV8400000 MERCURY, ((O-CARBOXYPHENYL)THIO)ETHYL-, SODIUM SALT IRRITATION DATA EYE-RBT 8 UG MLD AJOPAA 78,98,1974 TOXICITY DATA IAL-CHD LDLO:60 MG/KG/4W-I JOPDAB 104,311,1984 ORL-RAT LD50:75 MG/KG PCOC** -,1130,1966 SCU-RAT LD50:98 MG/KG CTOXAO 4,185,1971 UNR-RAT LD50:40 MG/KG 30ZDA9 -,290,1971 ORL-MUS LD50:91 MG/KG NYKZAU 58,235,1962 IPR-MUS LD50:54 MG/KG NYKZAU 58,235,1962 SCU-MUS LD50:66 MG/KG QJPPAL 12,212,1939 IVN-MUS LD50:45 MG/KG QJPPAL 12,212,1939 TARGET ORGAN DATA BRAIN AND COVERINGS (OTHER DEGENERATIVE CHANGES) BEHAVIORAL (ANOREXIA, HUMAN) BEHAVIORAL (CHANGE IN MOTOR ACTIVITY) BEHAVIORAL (ATAXIA) BEHAVIORAL (COMA) LUNGS, THORAX OR RESPIRATION (OTHER CHANGES) GASTROINTESTINAL (NAUSEA OR VOMITING) KIDNEY, URETER, BLADDER (CHANGES IN TUBULES) EFFECTS ON FERTILITY (POST-IMPLANTATION MORTALITY) EFFECTS ON FERTILITY (ABORTION) EFFECTS ON EMBRYO OR FETUS (FETAL DEATH) TUMORIGENIC EFFECTS (UTERINE TUMORS) NUTRITIONAL AND GROSS METABOLIC (CHANGES IN: METABOLIC ACIDOSIS) TUMORIGENIC (NEOPLASTIC BY RTECS CRITERIA) TUMORIGENIC (TUMORS AT SITE OF APPLICATION) ONLY SELECTED REGISTRY OF TOXIC EFFECTS OF CHEMICAL SUBSTANCES (RTECS) DATA IS PRESENTED HERE. SEE ACTUAL ENTRY IN RTECS FOR COMPLETE INFORMATION.

SECTION 12. - - - - - - - - - ECOLOGICAL INFORMATION - - - - - - - - - DATA NOT YET AVAILABLE. SECTION 13. - - - - - - - - - DISPOSAL CONSIDERATIONS - - - - - - - - CONTACT A LICENSED PROFESSIONAL WASTE DISPOSAL SERVICE TO DISPOSE OF THIS MATERIAL. DISSOLVE OR MIX THE MATERIAL WITH A COMBUSTIBLE SOLVENT AND BURN IN A CHEMICAL INCINERATOR EQUIPPED WITH AN AFTERBURNER AND SCRUBBER. OBSERVE ALL FEDERAL, STATE AND LOCAL ENVIRONMENTAL REGULATIONS.


Found on:

http://www.momsagainstmercury.org/

[mzmolly]

58. I'm sure you would like to avoid me. You have shown

your ignorance to the fact that even the FDA claims they don't KNOW exactly how Thimerosal acts within the body, thus they used the guidelines for methyl mercury in recent data. So, your "they're different compounds" argument is questionable.

Further, even the FDA acknowledges that Thimerosal has caused harm/brain damage and even death.

However, I shall honor your request to stay out of this matter.

So ... until next time ...

Adios Amigo ~ :hi:

[mzmolly]

52. Indeed, and we've seen an increase in autism since it's introduction.

Since the MMR vaccine was introduced about 35 years ago,the incidents of autism in children have increased by 1,000 percent - from two or three in 10,000 - to one in 500.

References

Nugent E. Experts call for new research over linked Scot autism cases. Scottish Daily Mail, Wednesday, June 14, 2000.


Azfal MA, et al. The Lancet. Vol 351. February 28, 1998 pp. 611-12.


H. H. Fudenberg, NeuroImmuno Therapeutics Research Foundation, Classic Infantile Onset Autism is an Autoimmune Disease, accessed May 20, 1998.


MMR Vaccine and Autism. National Immunization Program: Leading the Way to Healthy Lives. Centers for Disease Control and Prevention (CDC).


Kawashima H, Mori T, Kashiwagi Y, Takekuma K, Hoshika A, Wakefield A. Detection and sequencing of measles virus from peripheral mononuclear cells from patients with inflammatory bowel disease and autism. Dig Dis Sci 2000 Apr;45(4):723-9.

[vonSchloegel]

73. The 1998 Lancet

article you cite has been retracted.

Turns out that Dr. Wakefield (who you also cite) was on the payroll of a law firm mounting a class action suit against vaccine manufacturers. Ten of the thirteen scientists who contributed to the report have since withdrawn their support.

[mzmolly]

79. Interesting how many will retract when threatened as these people were.

There are two sides to that retraction story. Wakefield was slandered/fired as is any scientist who dares question the money making vaccine machine. Then *poof* a magical retraction.

http://autism.about.com/cs/autisminprint/a/wakefieldfired.htm

Andrew Wakefield, the autism researcher who found the a potential link between the Measles - Mumps - Rubella vaccine (MMR) and autism has been fired by the Royal Free Hospital in London. Ironically, this news comes one day after a researcher at Harvard University substantially replicated the results of Wakefield's research, the first step at proving a hypothesis to be true according to the scientific method.

...

Dr. Wakefield, who is recognized by many in the autism community worldwide as an authority on autism, told parents involved in his research, "I realise now that everything that has happened to me was inevitable from the beginning. If you offend the system, then the system will take its revenge." As a result, parent and Autism groups around the world are reacting with horror to the termination of Dr. Wakefield by the hospital.

Now, at the time when his research has been validated by independent researchers in other countries, Wakefield finds himself on the outside looking in, at least as far as the Royal Free Hospital is concerned. While he still will have access to patients that were under his program, according to a message that he sent to concerned parents. Always the optimist, despite the jabs made at him by many in the medical community, Wakefield said, "One great benefit of this arrangement is that I shall no longer have to spend a considerable amount of time in distracting political negotiations with the Medical School and will be able to devote 100% of my effort to the research."

It brings to mind the story from mythology in which the messenger who brought news of the defeat of the army in battle, was killed for delivering unpleasant news to the king.

[Susang]

86. Interesting how many will backpedal and rationalize

When their heroes are exposed to be the opportunists and the egomaniacs that they are.

~snip~

Last month The Lancet admitted it would not have published the paper if it had known about what it called a "fatal conflict of interest."

It followed the discovery that Andrew Wakefield was carrying out a second study at the time.

He was being paid to see if there was any evidence to support possible legal action by a group of parents who claimed their children were damaged by the vaccine. Some children were involved in both studies.

http://news.bbc.co.uk/1/hi/health/3530551.stm

[mzmolly]

88. I have much information about conflicts of interest in the vaccine

approval process, interested?

THEY claim that it's impossible to find experts without conflicts of interest because such experts are few and far between, apparently that only applies to vaccine profiteers?

So if your tossing out the baby with the bath water in the wakefield study, you should consider the following:

http://www.google.com.ar/search?sourceid=navclient&ie=UTF-8&rls=RNWE,RNWE:2004-45,RNWE:en&q=conflict+of+interest+in+vaccine+approval+process

You may also want to consider the fact that Wakefields findings have since been backed up by other independent studies conducted around the globe.

[Susang]

92. As do I

I'm also personally acquainted with several experts in the field of autism research who have no financial interests from the vaccine industry who assert that the thimerisol in vaccines have not been the cause of the increased rates of autism diagnoses. I'll trust their research and opinion on the matter, they have access to much more research and data than we do.

http://psychiatry.uchicago.edu/ddc/home.htm

[bloom]

93. M.I.N.D. Institute Position

This was linked to your site... they seem like a respectably skeptical bunch (@UC Davis) ->

...However, a recent study carried out by Mady Hornig, MD, and colleagues (Hornig, Chian et al. 2004), which was funded, in part, by the M.I.N.D. Institute, has raised the possibility that certain strains of mice with immune dysfunction may be particularly susceptible to the neurotoxic effects of thimerosal. Some of the mice in Dr. Hornig’s study were healthy and pediatric levels of thimerosal did not affect either their behavior or brain development. However, in an inbred strain of mice that is prone to autoimmune problems, treatment with the same pediatric levels of thimerosal led to both behavioral problems and abnormal development of certain brain regions. These findings will, of course, need to be independently replicated. But, they suggest that more research must be focused on detecting which individuals are genetically vulnerable to environmental challenges such as mercury, PCBs and others.

The M.I.N.D. Institute supports the removal of thimerosal from all vaccines, and encourages parents to specifically request that the vaccines given to their children be thimerosal free. There are alternative methods for preservation and all of the standard pediatric vaccines are currently available without thimerosal. Given the uncertainty about the toxicity of mercury, it is only prudent to eliminate the exposure of infant children to this toxicant. There are, however, other sources of mercury, for example, from thimerosal in consumer products (http://www.fda.gov/cder/fdama/mercury300.htm) and from organic mercury in fish. Again, it becomes critical to determine what, if any, level of mercury exposure is safe to the developing infant. Ongoing studies at the Center for Children’s Environmental Health at UC Davis and the M.I.N.D. Institute are addressing this issue.

http://www.ucdmc.ucdavis.edu/mindinstitute/html/news/current/position.html


One of the criticisms of some of the past research is that it seems the researchers did not take into account a weak immune system and/or tendency toward allergies, etc. in regards to reactions to thimerosal. This recent 2004 study - did.

[bloom]

94. This is quite interesting as well - memory and autism

(Not exactly related to the discussion... my daughter has about the best memory of anyone that I know)

July 14, 2004

UC DAVIS M.I.N.D. INSTITUTE FINDS THAT BRAIN REGIONS INVOLVING MEMORY AND EMOTION ARE LARGER IN CHILDREN WITH AUTISM


(SACRAMENTO, Calif.) — Researchers at the UC Davis M.I.N.D. Institute, in collaboration with scientists in the Department of Psychiatry and Behavioral Sciences at Stanford University , have carried out a comprehensive magnetic resonance imaging (MRI) brain analysis finding that the brain regions responsible for memory and emotion are larger in children with autism. This study appears in the July 14 th issue of the Journal of Neuroscience.


David Amaral, the principal investigator on the project, notes, “Our study shows that the amygdala develops abnormally in autism. This brain region grows too quickly in boys with autism and does not seem to have the opportunity to benefit from information derived from the environment for normal development. We also found that the hippocampus is about 10 percent larger in boys with autism at all ages.”


The research team studied 98 boys, aged 7 to 18 years, with a diagnosis of autism or Aspergers syndrome. One autism group had mental retardation and the second autism group had normal intelligence, and both were compared to a volunteer group of typically developing children.


The study examined two brain regions located in the temporal lobe, using high resolution MRI and specially designed computer software to measure the volume of the amygdala or hippocampus. The amygdala is involved with emotional processing, especially fear, and the hippocampus is involved in making memories of episodes from our lives.

http://www.ucdmc.ucdavis.edu/mindinstitute/html/news/current/07-14-04-1.html

[mzmolly]

97. Interesting that your aquaintences are so confident.

I have personal acquaintances with people in the medical field who are confident that no one can be "confident" about the safety of Thimerasol given an honest look at ALL of the data.

Also, the NIAID states that the effects of Thimerosal exposure are "unknown." So as I say, your acquaintances confidence in the matter is interesting but not surprising given the tendency toward blindness on this issue by the masses.

http://www.niaid.nih.gov/factsheets/thimerosal.htm

Additionally, autism is but ONE issue that Thimerosal is related to. As I pointed out above and again below, even the FDA acknowledges the following:

Several cases of acute mercury poisoning from thimerosal-containing products were found in the medical literature with total doses of thimerosal ranging from approximately 3 mg/kg to several hundred mg/kg. These reports included the administration of immune globulin (gamma globulin) (Matheson et al. 1980) and hepatitis B immune globulin (Lowell et al. 1996), choramphenicol formulated with 1000 times the proper dose of thimerosal as a preservative (Axton 1972), thimerosal ear irrigation in a child with tympanostomy tubes (Rohyans et al. 1994), thimerosal treatment of omphaloceles in infants (Fagan et al. 1977), and a suicide attempt with thimerosal (Pfab et al. 1996). These studies reported local necrosis, acute hemolysis, disseminated intravascular coagulation, acute renal tubular necrosis, and central nervous system injury including obtundation, coma, and death. (IOM)

[Corgigal]

21. it's not actual hearing loss

but Central Auditory Processing disorder. All autism diagnosed children have CAPD. The hearing function is fine but the neuropathology's into the brain to receive the information is scrambled.

My child only has CAPD no other symptoms.

[bloom]

30. ethyl mercury - increased scientific research

“Regardless of your position in the debate, everyone is in agreement that the injection of mercury into infants and pregnant women is an unnecessary practice” stated Dr. Cathy Pratt, Chair of ASA’s Board of Directors.


The Weldon-Maloney bill came in response to increased scientific research from respected institutions such as Columbia University, University ofArkansas, Northeastern University, and the Massachusetts Institute of Technology which clarifies that the ethyl mercury in thimerosal can be harmful to the brains of developing fetuses and young children.  Many families in the autism community have called for this action since the 1999 announcement.


“ASA appreciates the leadership role Congressman Weldon a practicing physician and Congresswoman Maloney have taken in protecting our nations’ children.  The “Mercury Free Vaccine Act of 2005” logically addresses a problem that must be resolved.  This is why ASA supports its passage,” concluded Grossman.

http://www.autism-society.org/site/News2?JServSessionIdr001=y9k36rbt21.app26a&page=NewsArticle&id=7625&security=1&news_iv_ctrl=-1

[trotsky]

34. "Can be harmful" and "causes autism" are two completely different things.

I really get frustrated with just how much obfuscation goes on by the anti-vaccine side of the debate.

[mzmolly]

53. But you said it was "safe" above?

Once again, your back-peddling.

So brain damage is "OK" with YOU then Trotsky? Talk about obfuscation.

[trotsky]

55. No, now you're just intentionally distorting.

"Safe" doesn't necessarily mean no one could ever be harmed from it. There is nothing - no substance in the world - that could ever be truly deemed completely harmless. We all need water to live, but it can also kill. Even too much oxygen can be dangerous!

"Safe," with thimerosal as well as anything else, means that the risks of using something are within an acceptable level. It's thousands of times more dangerous, statistically, to take your child for a ride in your car than give them a vaccination. So why don't you advocate everyone giving up their cars?

How you go and distort that into meaning I'm "OK" with brain damage is dishonest and mean, mzmolly. It would be nice if you apologized for that attack.

[mzmolly]

59. Problem is Trotsky, the scientists don't know what an acceptable

level of this compound is.

Again, I will honor your request to avoid this conversation.

I'm not going to get into the "car/water/oxygen" debate again, nor will I apologize when it is you that attacks others (calling them ignorant) for daring to question vaccination.

[PA Democrat]

61. mzmolly, I welcome your contributions to this topic

And as a parent of a child with autism, I can assure you that there has been entirely too LITTLE questioning of accepted tenets within the medical community with respect to autism.

There was an entire generation of mothers of kids with autism who were actually told that they caused their child's autism. Bruno Bettelheim's claim that "refrigerator mothers" caused their children's autism was widely accepted within the medical community until the mid 1970's. I know mothers who were bullied and demeaned by some of these so-called experts for daring to question what was then accepted as fact.

I'm not sold either way on the autism thimerosal thing. I am distrustful of people who want to prematurely shut the door on all questions into the safety of thimerosal in vaccines. The price of getting it wrong is just too high. And if others didn't secretly feel the same way, they would not have agreed so readily to remove thimerosal from vaccines.

[mzmolly]

62. You've summed up my feelings here as well:

I'm not sold either way on the autism thimerosal thing. I am distrustful of people who want to prematurely shut the door on all questions into the safety of thimerosal in vaccines. The price of getting it wrong is just too high.

Indeed. :(

[trotsky]

64. Calling someone ignorant is not an attack

when they are ignorant of certain facts. I didn't call anyone ignorant because they "question(ed) vaccination." Once again you lie in order to slam me. Nice.

[mzmolly]

65. Then let me sum it up by saying "your ignorant of certain facts"

surrounding the issue of vaccination. :eyes:

For example you've made numerous "ignorant" claims within this thread ~ without a shred of anything to back up your assertions. I believe another poster described it as "hubris?" I tend to agree.

[trotsky]

69. Then there's hubris on both sides, mzmolly.

I'm going to side with the majority consensus of trained, educated scientists and researchers. If that's hubris, so be it.

[PA Democrat]

74. Yes, it's hubris to ignore just how many times those "trained, educated

scientists and researchers" have been completely WRONG about autism. (Ever hear of Bruno Bettelheim?) How many of those researchers claiming that there is no link between thimerosal and autism are in the pockets of the pharmaceutical industry?

I welcome a healthy debate on the topic of the etiology of autism, but to be frank your attitude is more than a little offensive. I pray you never have to deal with the desperation, the abject heartbreak that the parent of a child with autism feels on a daily basis, and never have to deal with the reality of just how badly the "scientific" community has let us down.

Those wonderful "trained, educated scientists and researchers" told me I was wrong to pursue intensive behavioral therapy for my daughter when she was first diagnosed with autism more than a decade ago. I chose to ignore them, and now several of them have actually even admitted that THEY were wrong, based upon the remarkable progress my daughter and other children with autism have made with this type of treatment.

But due to the hubris of these so-called experts, many other parents at that time were bullied into submission and chose the treatment modalities recommended by the "consensus", and their children paid the price. Today intensive behavioral therapy is the treatment of choice for children with autism, thanks to the "ignorance" of parents like me.


Look at the very recent claims of researchers that there is no autism epidemic, just better diagnosis. Now, they are finally admitting that is does indeed appear that the incidence of autism is on the rise. Look at the very recent claims of researchers that the causes of autism were purely genetic. That doesn't fit into the scenario of the dramatic increase in the rate of autism, now does it?

I believe in science and am interested in the "consensus" viewpoint, but based upon past experience, I approach it with a healthy amount of skepticism.

[mzmolly]

76. I'm going to side with the majority of educated and independent

scientists with nothing to gain and everything to lose, if that's hubris, so be IT.

I'm going to side with people who don't FEAR open honest dialogue when it comes to the drug approval process and vaccinations in this country ...

I'm going to side with those that say parents should have balanced information regarding vaccination/rates of disease and have a CHOICE as to what medications their children are subjected to ...

[trotsky]

70. The amazing thing is,

environmental sources of mercury introduce exponentially more mercury into our bodies (and bloodstream) than even a lifetime of vaccinations - and it's the KNOWN dangerous type.

All the energy you expend spreading misinformation could be better spent helping to address the real problem of mercury pollution, which is too bad.

[mzmolly]

80. I happen to be able to focus on more than one environmental concern

at a time Trotsky.

The amount of time you spend denying parents medical choice/information regarding injecting mercury *and other questionable substances* into our infants could be better spent IMHO.

I have yet to spread misinformation. However, you sir spead drug company propaganda as if you were on the fargen payroll.

[sendero]

60. But the CDC's..

.... refusal to release the unedited results of their own studies doens't bother you at all.

I don't know if thimerisol is a problem or not, my wife thinks it is. One thing I do know, when the words "medical science" are strung together I get skeptical from the get-go becuase I've seen too many iron-clad well-reasoned policies that have turned out to be full of common sense and completely wrong.

You assertion that the body processes some mercury different than others, fine, but that doesn't mean for a second that it means the second form cannot cause problems and furthermore, you coulnd't prove it doesn't if your life depended on it.

So I find your certainty about the matter somewhat hubristic.

[mzmolly]

47. Oh bologna. Like the "scientists" concerned about Thimerosal

are "confused" :eyes:

From the FDA:

The various mercury guidelines are based on epidemiological and laboratory studies of methyl mercury, whereas thimerosal is a derivative of ethyl mercury. Because they are different chemical entities - ethyl- versus methylmercury - different toxicological profiles are expected. There is, therefore, an uncertainty that arises in applying the methylmercury-based guidelines to thimerosal. Lacking definitive data on the comparative toxicities of ethyl- versus methylmercury, FDA considered ethyl- and methyl-mercury as equivalent in its risk evaluation. There are some data and studies bearing directly on thimerosal toxicity and these are summarized in this Section.


http://www.fda.gov/cber/vaccine/thimerosal.htm#tox

[KamaAina]

6. Hearing loss is a characteristic of autism? That's news to me.

And I worked in the field, on the Yale team that introduced Asperger syndrome into DSM-IV, in fact.

And, as a person with autism myself, any hearing loss I may have would be attributable not to the autism, but to too many concerts and club shows in my 20s, just like everyone else. :-) The authors may be thinking of the fact that many children with autism are first believed to be Deaf, before a more rigorous diagnosis can be made.

Also, mercury poisoning can affect adults (Isaac Newton, say), while autism always develops in early childhood. My former employers, in fact, now say they can make a diagnosis at 15 months.

This is certainly not to say there's no link. There very well may be. But, in my long experience, someone comes along about every six months claiming to have The Answer to autism, and desperate family members are all too willing to listen.

[bloom]

10. I hadn't heard about the hearing loss, either

and it's possible that it would take a really high dose to get it.



I think there could be better information out there for doctors and the general public.

I'm rather aggravated that no doctor - including psychologists and psychiatrists and no teacher ever picked up on my daughter's symptoms. They are quite obvious to me now.

I expect there could be a lot more undiagnosed Asperger's cases.

[lumberjack_jeff]

46. My 6 year old has Aspergers

and hypersensitivity to noise is common.

Deafness? I don't know. Hearing disorders? Yes.

[bloom]

24. "increasing clinical evidence showing a connection is being ignored..."

WHISTLEBLOWER NEEDED FOR SEPARATE OFFICE OF SPECIAL COUNSEL INVESTIGATION TO MOVE FORWARD


WASHINGTON, June 2 /PRNewswire/ -- National Autism Association announced today that Scott Bloch, Office of Special Counsel (OSC), is calling for further investigation into the link between neurological disorders and Thimerosal, a mercury preservative found in childhood vaccines. In an OSC press release, Bloch states that the allegations of wrongdoing towards Health and Human Services (HHS), Centers for Disease Control (CDC), and Food and Drug Administration (FDA), " ... raise serious continuing concerns about the administration of the nation's vaccine program ... "


Bloch also stated, " ... it appears there may be sufficient evidence to find a substantial likelihood of a substantial and specific danger to public health caused by the use of Thimerosal/mercury in vaccines because of its inherent toxicity."


Specifically, the OSC has asked Sen. Judd Gregg and Cong. Joe Barton, Committee Chairmen with HHS Oversight, to investigate these allegations:


* Ethylmercury Thimerosal is still present in childhood vaccines and flu shots, contrary to statements made by government health agencies;


* The heightened concern that CDC datasets from the Vaccine Safety Datalink (VSD) once showing a relationship between Thimerosal and neurological disorders may have been destroyed and independent researchers have been arbitrarily denied access to CDC vaccine databases.


* The CDC and the FDA colluded with pharmaceutical companies at a June 2000 meeting to prevent the release of a VSD study showing a link between Thimerosal exposure and neurological disorders including Autism, ADD/ADHD, Stuttering, Tics and Speech and Language Delays. The study's author, Dr. Thomas Verstraeten, and other CDC employees published a different version in the Nov. 2003 issue of Pediatrics, showing no link.


* That increasing clinical evidence showing a connection is being ignored by government health agencies.


The OSC's order for Congress to investigate wrongdoing underscores the inadequacy of the Institute of Medicine's (IOM) May 18th report stating "no link" between autism and Thimerosal. The IOM meeting was sponsored by the CDC, and the IOM panel used epidemiological studies, including the highly questioned CDC's Verstraeten Study mentioned above, to reach their conclusion while ignoring clinical and biological evidence showing a connection.

http://www.mercuryexposure.org/index.php?article_id=90

From June 2004

[KamaAina]

26. The Nat'l Autism Assn. is far from the largest autism advocacy group

this is the first I'd heard of it, in fact, and remember, I'm in the field.

http://www.nationalautismassociation.org

The major, long-standing group, the one with local chapters pretty much everywhere, is the Autism Society of America:

http://www.autism-society.org

[bloom]

28. I'm happy to know what group you respect

From their site:

Autism Society of America Supports "Mercury Free Vaccine Act of 2005"
Friday, February 25, 2005
By: ASA Press Release


HR.881 Introduced to Protect Children, End Controversy


Bethesda, MD:  Autism Society of America (ASA), the nation’s oldest and largest organization dedicated to the supporting individuals and families dealing with autism, is pleased to announce its support of the bipartisan move by Congressman David Weldon, MD (FL-15) and Congresswoman Carolyn Maloney (D-NY) to assure the removal of childhood mercury exposure through vaccines.  HR 881, the “Mercury Free Vaccine Act of 2005” was introduced last week in the US House of Representatives.


“Enormous discussion and research has been given to this issue,” states Lee Grossman, President of ASA, “and while some progress has been made to remove the hazard of thimerosal from childhood vaccines, the lingering threat remains.  Government agencies now report that as late as January 2003 there was mercury in infant vaccines still in the marketplace.  HR 881 will clear up these issues and assure that parents are not forced to refuse to immunize as a way of preventing mercury exposure.”


Grossman refers to thimerosal, a vaccine preservative comprised of 49.6% ethyl-mercury, a known neurotoxin.  In 1999, the United States Public Health service and the American Academy of Pediatrics called for the removal of thimerosal from all vaccines with potential pediatric administration.  Unfortunately, because no mandate for the removal was instituted, mercury-containing vaccines remain in the marketplace and parents are increasingly confused.


Many physicians and researchers suspect thimerosal may contribute, either directly or through a series of events, to neurodevelopmental disorders, including autism.

[KamaAina]

38. I have no opinion one way or another on Nat'l Autism Assn.

merely to point out that they're a new, upstart group. It is conceivable that a few people with an agenda could band together under a name like "National Autism Association", though that does not seem to be the case here. I suppose we're just such a fast-growing group that we need more and more support groups!

Oh yes, I am personally acquainted with ASA president Lee Grossman, who lives out here, and with his teenage son. I have, in fact, had the opportunity to discuss the vaccine issue with him in person.

Note that I am not attempting to debunk the mercury theory, merely quibbling over the source. With that issue resolved, the next question: Will we see a dropoff in the rate of increase of autism now that the thimerosal vaccines are being removed from the market?

[PA Democrat]

37. Parents of kids with autism have legitimate cause to distrust claims that

there is no link between mercury (in vaccines or environmental) and autism. Until the mid 1970's it was accepted belief in the medical community that autism was caused by "refrigerator mothers". We were told that the increase in the rate of autism was purely our imagination, that it was just better diagnosis. We are bombarded with advice to try this treatment or that medication, only to discover that there is no peer reviewed research proving the efficacy of these recommendations.

I want definitive proof as to exactly what has caused my daughter's autism. But, in the meantime, I can't completely rule out mercury in vaccines. We've been misled one too many times.

[bloom]

39. That would be frustrating

to keep getting different information.


While I didn't know anything about ASD when my daughter was in high school, I keep remembering how the guidance counselor said how she saw more and more students like my daughter (she graduated in 2002). But they didn't know what "it" was. (The obvious thing was she was depressed and wouldn't talk with people, trouble with writing projects, couldn't drive...).

Makes me wonder how many other people might be out there and not relating their symptoms to ASD.



The similarities of symptoms of mercury poisoning and autism - plus the Texas Study showing the link to the Coal Plants - the RhoGam connection... have me pretty much convinced. The thing I think about the vaccines wasn't that it was them by themselves as much as too many of them on top of everything else.

[PA Democrat]

41. I live in western PA, one of the worst areas of the country for

mercury emissions from power plants. It makes me wonder. Of course, the energy industry will soon trot out their "experts" and their "research" to "prove" there is no such link. In the meantime, the numbers of kids diagnosed with autism continue to grow.

[bloom]

42. Where I grew up

there was not so much in the way of Coal-Fired emissions. But when I went away to college - in a town along the Ohio river - I was briefly involved with a group that was working at the time to get "scrubbers" installed at the Coal-fired smokestacks. I think they were successful for one or two of the places - but I noticed there is still plant spewing out 1300 lbs a year - compared with 120 lbs at the other plants.

http://www.nrdc.org/health/effects/mercury/states.asp

I had noticed - over 25 years ago - when I moved down there - that I subsequently developed allergies. Cats and hay fever. I think I could have been even more susceptible to the pollution since I didn't grow up around it. I don't know. I never dreamed how much I might have been affected - environmentalism was always mostly theoretical - until now.

[mirandaod]

40. I hope you get your answers.

I don't think the pharmaceutical companies and the medical community have earned our trust on these issues.

I hope things go well for your family.

[Spider Jerusalem]

43. Nonsense.

Vaccination has NOTHING TO DO WITH AUTISM!

The brains of autistics differ significantly in several respects from those of neurologically typical (that is, "normal") individuals. THe differences are of such nature and extent that they can only have been present from very early in gestation, during the period of brain formation in the womb.

Also, SEVERAL independent studies have found no connection between vaccination and autism.

And the signs of mercury poisoning are acute, and reversible; autism is chronic, and permanent.

[WoodrowFan]

71. don't upset the true believers

now, now. Don't upset the true believers. Science be damned, they know the TRUTH!

I guess the Danish are in league with "bigpharm" and the CD too!!

http://www.autisticsociety.org/article58.html

[PA Democrat]

95. Actually, there are quite a few questions about the legitimacy of the

Danish study. This from the Congressional record:

"I want to talk briefly about the other four studies that the Institute of Medicine based its conclusions on. The IOM cited the 2003 Hviid study of the Danish population as one of the key studies upon which it based its conclusions. Let us first consider the conflict of interest of the principal author. Dr. Hviid works for the Danish Epidemiology Science Center, which is housed at the Staten Serum Institute, the government-owned Danish vaccine manufacturer. Also, all of his coauthors either work with him at the center or are employed by the SSI.

The SSI, the Staten Serum Institute, makes a considerable profit off the sales of vaccine and vaccine components and the U.S. is a major market for the SSI.

SSI has $120 million in annual revenue, and vaccines are the fastest-growing business segment, accounting for 80 percent of its profits. Both the United States and the United Kingdom are important export markets for SSI's vaccines and vaccine components. Furthermore, if Hviid were to find an association between Thimerosal and autism, SSI, with which he and his center are affiliated, would then face significant lawsuits. These facts are important and are critical when evaluating Dr. Hviid's work. Furthermore, this study looked at autism and not at neurodevelopmental disorders.

The important thing in evaluating this study is that exposure in the Danish population to Thimerosal varied considerably from that in the United States. Danish children received 75 micrograms of mercury in their first 9 weeks of life and then another 50 micrograms at 10 months. By comparison, children in the United States received 187.5 micrograms of mercury by the age of 6 months, nearly 2 1/2 times as much mercury as the Danish population."

http://weldon.house.gov/News/DocumentPrint.aspx?DocumentID=6843

[WoodrowFan]

98. oh please

The single largest study ever done vs the word of a RW Doctor who sponsored the "“Incapacitated Persons Legal Protection Act" to "protect" Terri Schiavo because he said she really WASN'T in a vegatative state. Glad he's not my doctor. I'd be more impressed if you had some objections to the study from a reputable peer-reviewed journal written by a group of reputable scientists rather than the rantings of a RW nut job. :eyes:

[PA Democrat]

99. You claimed the Danish researchers had no relationship to the pharmaceutic

industry. I showed you that was not the case, and if you care to do the reading, you'll find that this very issue was raised during the peer review process.

http://pediatrics.aappublications.org/cgi/eletters/112/5/1039#547

When I see terms like "ignorant" "true believers" and "crap" being flung at anyone who dares to question whether the research on the topic is indeed conclusive and unbiased, it raises red flags in my book. I have a child with autism, and I don't think that vaccines caused my child's autism, but I also would like to see more thorough research to confirm this.

Considering the tremendous financial and emotional cost of raising a child with autism, is that too much to ask without enduring insulting remarks from you and others?

Have a nice life.

[KamaAina]

44. In the spirit of scientific inquiry, let me throw out this conjecture

before I duck and run for cover:

Given the laundry list of similarities in symptoms between mercury poisoning and autism, and the relative rarity of mercury poisoning compared to a century or two ago, could it be that mercury poisoning from vaccines is being misdiagnosed as autism? The only way to tell would be to run a whole bunch of MRIs on possibly vaccine-injured children and look for the presence or absence of the brain differences described above.

Of course, if I'm right, I just cost every researcher in the field billions in grant money, and if I'm wrong, I look like a big :dunce: in front of DU, so why am I suggesting this?

[bloom]

45. That has occurred to me...

But the other side is the argument that the appearance of autism followed the introduction on vaccines.


It seems like they could both be autism and with some - it is a matter of getting mercury in utero and others get it later. I don't know if the effects are necessarily different (it could affect differently in utero - it seems) - or if the treatment would be different - like if it's easier to get rid of mercury that one gets after one is born...

I don't know if they need to be called different things. Though they probably would be - because that is how people are.

It would seem odd to think, for instance, that insurance would cover something if someone was born with it - but not if they weren't. Or if insurance covered other things and not autism if they said that it was really poisoning.

[IndyPriest]

66. I think you're right. And not a dunce.

Much of what has been diagnosed as autism is mercury poisoning. I am a mercury poisoning "victim," have had to study the issue like cramming for a PhD, and can tell you that the direction of your hypothesis is where much of the research is going.

Much of the problem in figuring out the relationship between the mercury in vaccines and autism has to do with determining when exposure to mercury has happened in an individual. If, for example, research on autistic kids did NOT ask whether their mothers had amalgam fillings, that research is going to neglect this important piece: exposure in utero. Better research is asking whether and how uterine exposure potentiates later exposure via vaccines.

[Spider Jerusalem]

67. I think that's more likely than the alternative...

and I think it likely that fetal exposure to environmental toxins may cause a syndrome which closely mimics autism. There seems to be a strong genetic component present in TRUE autism and autistic disorders, that may not be present in environmentally-induced cases.

[WoodrowFan]

72. not this crap again

The so-called link was disproved by the Danish study covering DECADES of vaccinations. But then, facts have never bothered the tinfoil crowds.

http://www.cispimmunize.org/fam/facts/Compare%20the%20Risks.pdf

bye bye!!!

[mzmolly]

81. Interesting how the "sheep" claim they have the corner on the "fact"

market.

[Corgigal]

85. also interesting

how they are become more of a minority. If you even talked about this to someone , what 5 years ago, they all would have reacted like that. Not anymore.

Slowly but surely we are begining to see what we have done to a generation. Either through vaccines,environment or a genetic link. I think it's all 3 myself.

[bloom]

89. Before I started reading all this stuff for myself

the pro-vaccine (really the anti-anti-thimerosal) crowd influenced me. A couple months ago, for instance.


Now I think - that to believe that thimerosal is safe is like believing we went to War in Iraq for WMDs.

[bloom]

82. mini-movie by the University of Calgary - on mercury & the brain

http://commons.ucalgary.ca/showcase/curtains.php?src=/mercury/Lor2_QTS_300kb_QD.mov&screenwidth=320&screenheight=256


I hope this link works...

[bloom]

84. corresponding article...

http://www.ucalgary.ca/~gauntlet/eg/news/stories/20010329/news05.html

[bloom]

87. Mercury Alternatives

http://www.ganet.org/dnr/p2ad/mercury.html


Instead of...
Use...

Mercury (silver bulb) thermometer
Digital or red bulb thermometer

Mercury containing thermostats
Digital thermostats

Normal fluorescent bulbs
Low-mercury bulbs (with green end caps)

"Silver" dental amalgam
Tooth colored resin

Mercuric oxide button batteries
Zinc-air or other mercury-free button batteries

[bloom]

91. *Great Resource Site* activism @ the State Level - getting rid of Hg

http://mercurybanstates.tripod.com/how_to_in_your_state.htm


Ok - so it links to

http://www.eagleforum.org/

with Phyllis Schaffley, etc. - so that's weird.

Although - I did notice that Dan Burton (R) was also trying to get rid of mercury in the environment - so it's not impossible to agree with them on something - not what your typical Republican seems to endorse (i.e. the Clear Skies Act that delays and trades in mercury pollution). For the most part I think they are nuts.

[PA Democrat]

96. Dan Burton has a grandson with autism

and that is why he dares to depart from the party line on this topic.