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Jesse Jackson joining with the Schindlers???!!

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drpdx Donating Member (66 posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Tue Mar-29-05 08:49 PM
Original message
Jesse Jackson joining with the Schindlers???!!
WTF??? I have missed something along the way; this took me by surprise...

http://www.washingtonpost.com/wp-dyn/articles/A9803-2005Mar29.html

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xray s Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Tue Mar-29-05 08:51 PM
Response to Original message
1. He has been saying this for weeks now
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Just Me Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Tue Mar-29-05 09:32 PM
Response to Reply #1
10. It's just another HATE HATE HATE thread.
Edited on Tue Mar-29-05 09:35 PM by Just Me
Gee,...wonder why?

:shrug:

On edit: I make my lists and check them twice. Perhaps, Skinner and the moderators might consider doing the same. Perhaps.
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Hard Attack Donating Member (264 posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Tue Mar-29-05 08:54 PM
Response to Original message
2. Anything for Attention.
_
Jesse Jackson is a Fraud Everyone.

I shook his hand 14 years ago, the guy is a phony in my opinion.

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cidliz2004 Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Tue Mar-29-05 08:55 PM
Response to Original message
3. MJ,'s spiritual advisor, why not get on another losing side?
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James T. Kirk Donating Member (916 posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Tue Mar-29-05 09:07 PM
Response to Original message
4. Jackson's motivation?
What is up with Jesse Jackson?!?!?

Is he trying to gain political favor with Christians?

Is he trying to put and end to Americans' right to die?

Is he trying to control women's bodies?

W.T.F.?
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DemocratSinceBirth Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Tue Mar-29-05 09:08 PM
Response to Reply #4
5. ?????????????????????????//
Is he trying to gain political favor with Christians?


He's a Reverand for the love of God...
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James T. Kirk Donating Member (916 posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Tue Mar-29-05 09:12 PM
Response to Reply #5
6. You're right. He is a reverend!
He's trying to curry favor with his church! That must be it.

I can't believe he would use such a tragic case for crass political gain. And to think this guy has run for president. Imagine if he won and imposed his theocracy on us all! Forced feeding tubes for everyone!
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xray s Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Tue Mar-29-05 09:22 PM
Response to Reply #4
7. Maybe....
Edited on Tue Mar-29-05 09:38 PM by xray s
Maybe Jackson is taking up this position so he can eventually bring up the fact that if someone is concerned about Terri, like he is, you should also agree with him that it is wrong to let the state execute people, some of whom are innocent, that people are dying because of our messed up health insurance system, that you have to be concerned about hundreds of thousands dying in Iraq because of Bush's war, etc.

If you are concerned over life at the extreme edge of someone's life, you should be even more concerned about life everywhere else.

That is called consistency. A lesson worth teaching to the Fox news zombie audience.



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autorank Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Tue Mar-29-05 09:30 PM
Response to Original message
8. I remember him in DC on 1/06/2005. Can't agree w/him on everything.
Jesse Jackson addressing the rally in Lafayette Park, January 6, 2005. Telling us Boxer would vote Nay on the Ohio electors. I think we can tolerate this move in FL.

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DemocratSinceBirth Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Tue Mar-29-05 09:31 PM
Response to Reply #8
9. He Is A Reverand...
I believe he's sincere....
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Tinoire Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Tue Mar-29-05 09:52 PM
Response to Original message
11. Martin Luther King would have been with the Schindlers too.
I don't say this because Jesse was one of Martin's trusted aides; I say this because Martin was that manner of man.

What is it that people aren't getting about deep-seated ethical convictions? The same deep-seated religious/ethical/moral convictions for LIFE that prompted Jesse Jackson to stand with the Schindlers are the same ones that prompted him to take a CLEAR, unnuanced, ethical stance in face of the Iraq war- real respect for life not viewed through the microcosm of this issue or that issue, but in totality.

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drpdx Donating Member (66 posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Tue Mar-29-05 10:01 PM
Response to Reply #11
12. so what you are saying Tinoire
Is that his is a truly "pro-life" position? I guess I can see that, if he is speaking out against the death penalty, war, poverty as well. Is JJ anti-choice re abortion?? That would then be an inconsistency. I'm just asking; I don't know.
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Tinoire Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Tue Mar-29-05 10:24 PM
Response to Reply #12
13. Here is his explanation
It's pretty similar to the explanation Al Sharpton when he was cornered on this question during the Primaries. Sharpton's answer was much more entertaining but it said the same. I'll see if I can find it when I get home.

In my opinion, abortion is an issue where many Christians, Jews and Muslims who don't believe in it have ceded to Democrats but that doesn't change their religious belief that it's not right. I am anti-abortion but I am pro-choice because the ills of our society provide no safety nets to women and children and that, imo, is a greater evil that I can help correct. The issue of abortion is something I'd rather leave to the individual, their conscience and God. This is a sincere compromise & binding that many religious Americans have made with the Democratic Party.

Why do you think that if Jackson were anti-choice re abortion, he would be inconsistent? I think that in his scenario, the inconsistency would be in being pro-choice re abortion but like I said, our society is so messed up (no safety/social nets) that it's the lesser of two evils- especially when compared to magnitude of the evils you have to accept when you sign on with the Republicans.

I have to go. Be back in 45 minutes if you answer....



How we respect life is the over-riding moral issue
By JESSE JACKSON

The question of "life" is The Question of the 20th century. Race and poverty are dimensions of the life question, but discussions about abortion have brought the issue into focus in a much sharper way. How we will respect and understand the nature of life itself is the over-riding moral issue, not of the Black race, but of the human race.

The question of abortion confronts me in several different ways. First, although I do not profess to be a biologist, I have studied biology and know something about life from the point of view of the natural sciences. Second, I am a minister of the Gospel and therefore, feel that abortion has a religious and moral dimension that I must consider.

Third, I was born out of wedlock (and against the advice that my mother received from her doctor) and therefore abortion is a personal issue for me. From my perspective, human life is the highest good, the summum bonum . Human life itself is the highest human good and God is the supreme good because He is the giver of life. That is my philosophy. Everything I do proceeds from that religious and philosophical premise.

Life is the highest good and therefore you fight for life, using means consistent with that end. Life is the highest human good not on its own naturalistic merits, but because life is supernatural, a gift from God. Therefore, life is the highest human good because life is sacred. Biologically speaking, thousands of male sperms are ejaculated into the female reproductive tract during sexual intercourse, but only once in a while do the egg and sperm bring about fertilization. Some call that connection accidental, but I choose to call it providential. It takes three to make a baby: a man, a woman and the Holy Spirit.

I believe in family planning. I do not believe that families ought to have children, as some people did where I was growing up, by the dozens. I believe in methods of contraception -- prophylactics, pills, rhythm, etc. I believe in sex education. We ought to teach' it in the home, the school, the church, and on the television. I think that if people are properly educated sexually they will appreciate the act and know its ultimate function, purpose and significance.

Only the name has changed
In the abortion debate one of the crucial questions is when does life begin. Anything growing is living. Therefore human life begins when the sperm and egg join and drop into the fallopian tube and the pulsation of life take place. From that point, life may be described differently (as an egg, embryo, fetus, baby, child, teenager, adult), but the essence is the same. The name has changed but the game remains the same.
Human beings cannot give or create life by themselves, it is really a gift from God. Therefore, one does not have the right to take away (through abortion) that which he does not have the ability to give.

Some argue, suppose the woman does not want to have the baby. They say the very fact that she does not want the baby means that the psychological damage to the child is reason enough to abort the baby'. I disagree. The solution to that problem is not to kill the innocent baby, but to deal with her values and her attitude toward life that which has allowed her not to want the baby. Deal with the attitude that would allow her to take away that which she cannot give.

Some women argue that the man does not have the baby and will not be responsible for the baby after it is born, therefore it is all right to kill the baby. Again the logic is off. The premise is that the man is irresponsible.

If that is the problem, then deal with making him responsible. Deal with what you are dealing with, not with the weak, innocent and unprotected baby. The essence of Jesus' message dealt with this very problem -- the problem of the inner attitude and motivation of a person. "If in your heart . . ." was his central message. The actual abortion (effect) is merely the logical conclusion of a prior attitude (cause) that one has toward life itself. Deal with the cause not merely the effect when abortion is the issue.

Pleasure, pain and suffering
Some of the most dangerous arguments for abortion stem from popular judgments about life's ultimate meaning, but the logical conclusion of their position is never pursued. Some people may, unconsciously, operate their lives as if pleasure is life's highest good, and pain and suffering man's greatest enemy. That position, if followed to its logical conclusion, means that that which prohibits pleasure should be done away with by whatever means are necessary. By the same rationale, whatever means are necessary should be used to prevent suffering and pain. My position is not to negate pleasure nor elevate suffering, but merely to argue against their being elevated to an ultimate end of life. Because if they are so elevated, anything, including murder and genocide, can be carried out in their name,
Often people who analyze and operate in the public sphere (some sociologists, doctors, politicians, etc.) are especially prone to argue in these ways. Sociologists argue for - population control on the basis of a shortage of housing, food, space, etc. I raise two issues at this point: (1) It is strange that they choose to start talking about population control at the same time that Black people in America and people of color around the world are demanding their rightful place as human citizens and their rightful share of the material wealth in the world. (2) People of color are for the most part powerless with regard to decisions made about population control. Given the history of people of color in the modern world we have no reason to assume that whites are going to look out for our best interests.

Politicians argue for abortion largely because they do not want to spend the necessary money to feed, clothe and educate more people. Here arguments for in-convenience and economic savings take precedence over arguments for human value and human life. I read recently where a politician from New York was justifying abortion because they had prevented 10,000 welfare babies from being born and saved the state $15 million. In my mind serious moral questions arise when politicians are willing to pay welfare mothers between $300 to $1000 to have an abortion, but will not pay $30 for a hot school lunch program to the already born children of these same mothers.

I think the economic objections are not valid today because we are confronted with a whole new economic problem. The basic and historic economic problem has been the inability to feed everyone in the world even If the will were there to do so. They could not produce enough to do the job even if they wanted to. An agrarian and disconnected world did not possess the ability to solve the basic economic problem. That was tragic, but hardly morally reprehensible. Today however, we do not have the same economic problem. Our world is basically urban, industrial, interconnected, and technological so that we now, generally speaking, have the ability to feed the peoples of the world but lack the political and economic will to do so. That would require basic shifts of economic and political power in the world and. we are not willing to pay that price -- the price of justice. The problem now is not the ability to produce but the ability to distribute justly.

Psychiatrists, social workers and doctors often argue for abortion on the basis that the child will grow up mentally and emotionally scared. But who of us is complete? If incompleteness were the criteria for taking life we would all be dead. If you can justify abortion on the basis of emotional incompleteness then your logic could also lead you to killing for other forms of incompleteness -- blindness, crippleness, old age.

Life is public and universal
There are those who argue that the right to privacy is of higher order than the right to life. I do not share that view. I believe that life is not private, but rather it is public and universal. If one accepts the position that life is private, and therefore you have the right to do with it as you please, one must also accept the conclusion of that logic. That was the premise of slavery. You could not protest the existence or treatment of slaves on the plantation because that was private and therefore outside of your right to concerned.
Another area that concerns me greatly, namely because I know how it has been used with regard to race, is the psycholinguistics involved in this whole issue of abortion. If something can be dehumanized through the rhetoric used to describe it, then the major battle has been won. So when American soldiers can drop bombs on Vietnam and melt the faces and hands of children into a hunk of rolling protoplasm and in their minds say they have not maimed or killed a fellow human being something terribly wrong and sick has gone on in that mind. That is why the Constitution called us three-fifths human and then whites further dehumanized us by calling us "niggers." It was part of the dehumanizing process. The first step was to distort the image of us as human beings in. order to justify that which they wanted to do and not even feel like they had done anything wrong. Those advocates of taking life prior to birth do not call it killing or murder; they call it abortion. They further never talk about aborting a baby because that would imply something human. Rather they talk about aborting the fetus. Fetus sounds less than human and therefore can be justified.

In conclusion, even if one does take life by aborting the baby, as a minister of Jesus Christ I must also inform and-or remind you that there is a doctrine of forgiveness. The God I serve is a forgiving God. The men who killed President John F. Kennedy and Dr. Martin Luther King, Jr. can be forgiven. Everyone can come to the mercy seat and find forgiveness and acceptance. But, and this may be the essence of my argument, suppose one is so hard-hearted and so in-different to life until he assumes that there is nothing for which to be forgiven. What happens to the mind of a person, and the moral fabric of a nation, that accepts the aborting of the life of a baby without a pang of conscience? What kind of a person, and what kind of a society will we have 20 years hence if life can be taken so casually?

It is that question, the question of our attitude, our value system, and our mind-set with regard to the nature and worth of life itself that is the central question confronting mankind. Failure to answer that question affirmatively may leave us with a hell right here on earth.
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drpdx Donating Member (66 posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Tue Mar-29-05 10:54 PM
Response to Reply #13
18. you're right
The inconsistency would be in supporting abortion; I wasn't clear in what I said. I think a lot of what JJ says is messed up; I wasn't aware of some of his positions. Thanks for posting the above. I guess he's against stem cell research too...
Thanks!
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mondo joe Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Tue Mar-29-05 10:25 PM
Response to Reply #11
14. That's like when the fundies say MLK would be against same sex
marriage.

It's revolting for people to try to bolster their lame arguments by co-opting the "opinion" of a dead man.
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DemocratSinceBirth Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Tue Mar-29-05 10:41 PM
Response to Reply #14
15. They Would Be Foolish...
There was nothing in Dr. King's background that suggested he was a homophobe...

To the contrary one of Dr. King's closest associates was a homosexual...

"Strom Thurmond took to the floor of the United States Senate in July of 1963, and denounced the upcoming March on Washington by calling attention to Bayard Rustin's homosexuality. Thurmond's plan to ruin the event failed miserably when Martin Luther King, Jr. stood in defense of Rustin . At the same time, Jesse Helms was launching similar attacks from his home state of North

Carolina"http://www.lambda.net/~maximum/rustin.html


But you are right the Reich Wing does try to appropriate Dr. King just as they try to appropriate the martyred Kennedy brothers....



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mondo joe Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Tue Mar-29-05 10:44 PM
Response to Reply #15
16. It's apalling to invoke the dead and put words in their mouths to
bolster a failed argument.

Shameful.
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DemocratSinceBirth Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Tue Mar-29-05 10:52 PM
Response to Reply #16
17. We Are Looking At The Teachings Of A Historical Figure
And Applying Them To The Problems Of Today

What would Kant say?

What would Burke say?

What would Rousseau say?

etcetera...


Students of philsophy and political theory do it all the time..


You disagree....

That's fine....

But your input is duely noted..

Good Night...
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mondo joe Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Tue Mar-29-05 10:55 PM
Response to Reply #17
19. I'm sorry, I do not accept this excuse for such shifty ethics.
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DemocratSinceBirth Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Tue Mar-29-05 10:56 PM
Response to Reply #19
20. I Didn't Ask You To Accept My Apology For I Have Nothing To Apologize
Edited on Tue Mar-29-05 10:58 PM by DemocratSinceBirth
For....

But thanks for playing...
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