If this were the Republic of Gilead, would you survive?

[Sugar Smack]

I read snippets of my dog-eared copy of Maragaret Atwood's The Handmaid's Tale every time I see my country take another downward spiral.

I really don't think I'd have the resourcefulness to survive it with my sanity intact. I would be hanged at the wall or get shot by guards trying to escape. Or maybe I'd get caught trying to read or write something. Most likely, it would be for giggling inappropriately or telling a wife to "get bent".

When I think of someone taking my books and artwork away, not being allowed to at least read or express myself through my art & writing, my mind MECHANICALLY and automatically tries to find another outlet. That outlet is free speech and the freedom to be touched by a loved one. Margaret Atwood, with her amazing and on-target imagination, has managed to create a country where none of these freedoms are allowed.

This morning I looked around my apartment and figured out how lucky I was by even being able to choose what I wanted for dinner, my ability to pick up the phone, take a sip of wine, write whatever I felt like writing, and hug my friends and family.

I could not live without these things-some of them trifles and others necessities. Especially when remembering when things were better.

[Heddi]

1. I don't know---

I'm in love with my Depo-Provera, and have been on it for so long that I wouldn't be able to become pregnant for AT LEAST two years after my last shot.

I think I would be worthless for them. THey'd put me in the radioactive cleanup crew.

[Sugar Smack]

4. There's that, or being a Martha-

or Jezebel's. A woman forced into one of four "traditional" roles in our culture, because I forgot the "Aunts", is subjected to the most extreme consequences. Say I were a Martha. I could probably socialize a little, but have to work my ass off cleaning everything for a household. If I worked at Jezebel's, I'd have the sensual leanings covered-smoke, booze,sex and socializing. Maybe they wouldn't care if I read something, as it would be entertaining to men. As an Aunt, I'd have to pretend I'm brainwashed, and learn how to use a cattleprod on women.

[Heddi]

7. My hubby's uncle is a Survivalist

living in the wild mountains of Idaho. Extremely wonderful man to talk to, and even though his politics are pretty much Far Right Libretarian Constitutionalist, we really have alot in common.

Most notably, our distrust of the government and our views that our country is changing for the worse right before our eyes.

Uncle doesn't have credit cards. Doesn't have a bank account. Keeps cash only and has alot of money in gold & silver.

He's never read the Handmaid's Tale, but we were having a conversation around Christmas Time and he said that he didn't trust ATM cards or Credit Cards because of how easily "they" can just shut you out and leave you without any cash. How Diebold controls the ATM machines AND the voting machines.

How, if they wanted to, they could just obliterate the accounts of all undesirables of society.

I told him it reminded me of a book I read where the turn of things started when all women were denied access to bank accounts and use of ATM cards. He said "yep, that's one way to do it"

---

A thought about The Handmaid's Tale---I had read the book on my own, and had to read it again (and watch the terrible movie) for a Film/Lit class I took.

As much as I respect Margaret Atwood and like the book, I was confused by her message that it was the Feminists who caused the subjugation of women, or at least the start of it---because they were so Radical in their positions (marching against Pornography, for example), the Gov't decided that the Fem's were RIGHT---women can't make decisions on their own and must be tended to by men. That's why sex was outlawd except in certain situations. Why the purpose of sex had to be procreation.

As much as I loved the book, THAT part bothered me. I wish she had made the radical religious sect the one that caused the subjugation of women, not Feminists who are generally on our side with regards to equal rights. It was almost like the moral of the story was 'Be careful what you wish for or you just might get it"

[Sugar Smack]

11. I love your response, Heddi-

Yes, the Gov't took over the theme of it being "freedom toward" and manipulated it into "freedom from". That's why this is so creepy. The protests were focused enough: Women are being abused and exploited! But when the gov't took over they spun it into a religious issue and enforced women and men to "behave" in certain ways. They didn't, maybe, miss the point, but they twisted it into an unreasonable argument full of euphemisms and distractions that would cloud the public perception.

[RaleighNCDUer]

52. Sounds familiar. n/t

[XemaSab]

28. All of Atwood's books

Have "interesting" morals. They can all be looked at in more than one way.

[Sugar Smack]

34. One of the Atwood stories that hit me hard

was "Bluebeard's Egg". There was a story about a woman, who in her complacency, figured she did not need to know her husband. I think with Margaret Atwood, complacency is the most dangerous theme!!

:scared:

[leftofthedial]

2. you'd better get used to it.

[Sugar Smack]

6. I'm really starting to think like that-

As Moira said, "It's you and me against the wall, baby!" The most chilling aspect of the book was the transitional silence of the masses that followed during wartime-when everyone was fearful and the MSM was only reporting "good news".

[RaleighNCDUer]

3. I'd be fighting with the rebels.

As a Jewish atheist, I wouldn't have much other choice, even though I am overweight and over fifty.

[joneschick]

5. I have been encouraging

my three teenage daughters to read Handmaiden. For some unfathomable reason I read while pregnant with daughter #3. I think I'll re-read it soon.

[Sugar Smack]

12. Good for you!!!!!!

If they're teenagers they should be kept abreast of other angles of the news in literature. I don't care how you do it- get'em to read it! Geeze, I sound like a total fanatic at this point, but there is so much power in that ONE BOOK that it shouldn't be ignored! Atwood sometimes even irritates me with all her commas, but if you can get past it, you'll see some amazing stuff.

[joneschick]

14. what other books

do you recommend for my very literate and liberal daughters? My eldest (17) has been reading some very interesting stuff. 'Course I can't remember any titles at the moment.
PS: I just went online to my library and ordered an audio, unabridged copy of Handmaiden to share with them. I'll try to listen with them.

[Sugar Smack]

20. I think "Bitch" by Elizabeth Wurtzel

is a good one. It's non-fiction, and its subtitle is "In Praise of Difficult Women". It's fun for teen-aged girls to be encouraged to read books with incendiary titles! The message always turns out to be a self-realization. The girl will wonder what else she has missed, as this particular author has voiced her thoughts in a way that frames her debate!!

[politicat]

32. Fiction: Sherri Tepper, Laurie R. King

Sherri Tepper writes very feminist SF; L. R. King's Marry Russell series are mysteries for the literate feminist. (Feminist Majority Foundation turned me on to her.)

Both can be enjoyed by teenagers.

Pcat

[Sugar Smack]

8. You know, I vaguely remember

a part wherein you'd swear an oath to Christianity OR you'd have the choice to be put on a boat that was, ultimately, sunk. Fighting with the rebels- a possibly large enough group to make a difference. When it happens, could you smuggle me somewhere in a chicken truck?

:)

[RaleighNCDUer]

51. Anytime, Sugar Smack. Assuming I could get in with the rebels.

As I remember, the rebels in the mountains of Gilead were specifically refered to as Baptists. I could just be SOL.

[atommom]

9. I don't know if I could handle it either. Literacy and learning are

big parts of my life, I don't want to be a broodmare for some old fundie, I have no domestic skills to speak of ... I guess that leaves "shot while trying to escape," or Jezebel's. (Do you suppose they let the hookers play Scrabble?) ;)

[joneschick]

10. LOL

but, but I only play Scrabble with my husband!

[Sugar Smack]

16. Welcome to DU, BTW, joneschick!!!

I love your username! You wouldn't REALLY say that to your commander, now would you????

:D

[Sugar Smack]

13. YEAH! That was a big turn-on for the commander!

The movie wasn't as thorough as the book, of course, but in both, the absurdity of it was laughable! Jezebel's- compared to everything else-sounds kind of fun. Since it's such a hotbed of iniquity, I'm sure there's a closet with a game of Scrabble in it somewhere (with government-regulated confiscation of high-powered letters like X or Q).

[atommom]

15. But X and Q are the sexiest letters, baby!

LOL!

[Sugar Smack]

18. Yeah, baby!! X-Rated and Quizno's!!!!

Plus, according to Offred, the tiles were "cool" on her fingertips, and looked like they would "taste" good, like peppermint candies!

:P

[atommom]

55. I guess you have to take your sensual pleasures where you can

find them, especially in Gilead!

[Sugar Smack]

62. Do you remember that scene in the book

where Offred was holding a soft-boiled egg in her hand, staring at the calcium pebbles on the shell? She was realizing at that moment exactly what you said. "Pleasure is an egg..blessings that can be counted, on the fingers of one hand...if I have an egg, what more could I possibly want?"

[atommom]

64. That's very deep, actually. I need to go read the book again now.

[incapsulated]

17. Nope, brown skin

Shipped off to prison camp, where I would wind up anyway, or dead.

:)

[cmf]

19. I was just about to reply that

I'd be deemed a "child of Ham" and sent off to prison camp. I'd probably try to make a run for the Candadian border, though. I live close to it.

[Sugar Smack]

21. cmf- to you and to incapsulated-

how would you try to pull such a thing off? Sometimes I wonder how I could think of something M. Atwood didn't think of as she plotted her novel. All I could find was that the husband, Luke, "seemed too happy". This is so scary. If you know that your entire life is at stake when crossing a border, how do you act as if it isn't? Do you plan a picnic, as they did (even killing their cat!!!!) or do you really bluff it out? See, I'd be in trouble because my face gives me away!

[Sugar Smack]

24. How and where would you die?

Would you die in line, kneeing a soldier in the groin, or would you wait till you were in your "final destination" and plot an escape?

[incapsulated]

25. Oh, I'd fight when they come for me

If I couldn't run for the border (which is close). Once they put you on an island camp, where do you go from there?

[Sugar Smack]

26. God- in the movie, when all the black women were fighting back

and in the next instance, everyone who was black had been "cattle-prodded", that made my skin crawl.

[incapsulated]

30. I'd rather die...

And try to take some of them with me than be at the end of a cattle prod.

Ya know?

[Sugar Smack]

35. YES I DO.

My imagination of what lies beyond such extreme measures at taming the populace has me as scared/filled with determination as anything you will evr see in a movie or read in a book. It also makes me think about how to lie effectively. Are these screwed-up times, or what?????

[mcscajun]

22. I'd like to think I could make it as a "Martha" and subvert from within...

…but I'd probably 'mouth off' one time, get caught, and wind up shipped away as an "Unwoman".

[Sugar Smack]

23. But you'd have the satisfacion

of being in control of the food!!! You'd probably have to cozy up to the other Marthas. Food can be spat in, and worse. Food can be hoarded privately. (For example, anorexics use food as a means of being in control, not necessarily losing weight.) Can you imagine the indignity of being a woman in that situation, with no regard for how a Handmaid fels, thinking of your "charge" as getting all the breaks? What a powerful story.

[Technowitch]

27. My wife and I would probably be somewhere in the Sierras

With the Resistance.

And if that proved untenable, we'd head north to Canada. I'd rather be shot at the border than sold off as a Handmaiden to some ignorant fundamentalist asshole.

[Sugar Smack]

38. I understand that-

because the "powers that be" would consider you A) fodder for regime support or B) enemies. Considering the pressure brought upon such military and other groups, one would hope they'd choose the more hopeful scheme, and not the more "paranoid" one. Frankly, I'd head North to Canada myself, and not take my chances.

[Technowitch]

47. As a same-sex couple, we'd be fodder for the 'Re-Orientation Camps'

[Sugar Smack]

61. Moira was a lesbian

but she was nabbed by the army because her ovaries were "still jumping". One of the scariest parts of the book was that preference and orientation meant nothing to those in control. If they could build a bigger army using you and me and any woman with "viable ovaries", they would.

:scared:

[politicat]

29. Right now, I'd be a Handmaid.

I'm under thirty, fertile, and married to a man who has been married before. I have no children.

I'm not sure what I would do, if I'd commit suicide or suicide by cop or just do as Offred did.

I've been thinking about getting the tubes tied - trying in fact very hard to do so - but it's hard to do when you're under thirty, have no children, and are married to someone who has had his own snip. Apparently, I'm not supposed to take my own fertility into control since my husband has done it for us.... :eyes:

On edit: That's where they'd class me. I don't know what I would do. Probably fight. But it would depend on how traumatic my separation from DH was. Shock can make you do things totally out of character.

[incapsulated]

31. What do you mean?

Do you mean no physician will do this because of your age and lack of children?

[politicat]

33. Yes, precisely.

I've been told by several physicians that they won't refer me for the procedure because I "might change my mind". Thus, I change doctors. I now have a reputation in my medical records for "doctor shopping" because I refuse to go to a doctor (and the women have been worse than the men on this one) who will not respect my fundamental right not to procreate.

I am currently keeping a diary asking myself daily if I want a Tubal; not one day has passed when I have not said let's do it today. I figure when I have a year's worth of entries, I will have a bit better chance with the docs.

[Sugar Smack]

36. a reputation in your medical records-

I can't even imagine. I have a medical history of needing some anti-depressants now and then. Or some sedatives. In a controlled environment such as that one, I also can't imagine how I'd fare.

I'd also never envision your medical wishes withheld because you "might change your mind"!!!!!!!!!!!

[Canadian Socialist]

43. Never once

has my doctor refused my requests re: my reproductive choices. I became pregnant, went for an ultrasound (to see if it was a tubal pregnancy), then went for an abortion, all in within 3 days. And, naturally, all covered by Alberta Health. Then, I told her I needed a tubal ligation to prevent this from ever happening again. She (my MD) made some calls and said, "Is Tuesday good for you?". That was it. No discussion about my age or anything. It was MY decision. BTW, I wasn't a teenager but that was irrelevant. When I decided, in my teens, I thought it might be a good idea, you know, just in case, to go on the pill, my doctor simply asked me, "Do you want a 6 month script or 1 year?". Again, all covered by our wonderful universal health care system.

edited to add: haven't read "The Handmaid's Tale" in years. Margaret Atwood is a real Canadian jewel re: literature. I lent my copy to a friend, and haven't seen it since. But this thread has prodded me into going to the local bookstore and picking up another copy. I heart MA.

[politicat]

54. I would love to come to Canada....

That's not the American system, to my great dismay. I was on the pill from 16 to 26, but I stopped because a) DH IS snipped, and b) there are some blood clot issues in my history. (Which in my mind is a very good reason to not get pregnant, since blood clots are common in pregnancy.... but gee, logic is not supposed to enter into this.)

I'm trying to sell a book right now so that I can apply with a computer games company in Alberta (one of the requirements is to be published) so that we can legally immigrate.

Hope you don't mind. We'll do our best to blend in...

/end thread hijack.

[Canadian Socialist]

59. You see

I just don't get it. I can go anywhere in Canada and have no worries about my health care. Sure, here in Alberta we pay (for singles) $42 a month, but that is only because our Conservative government thinks we should know that health care is not free. Duh. But, that money is not put into health care. It's put into general revenue. The funny thing is that it costs more to COLLECT the premiums than it costs. Because they have this wack-ass programme that if you make less then X you don't have to pay; but then if you make more then X you have to. So then, they have a whole department figuring this out! Instead of simply doing away with the premiums altogther... which makes more sense. And this is the richest province in the country. As well as one of the richest areas in the world (what with the oil and all). Don't get me started. Gotta love CON-servatives. They are stupid everywhere!

[politicat]

53. They do that all the time....

We've changed insurance companies 6 times in the last 10 years, and usually the provider I'm "with" isn't on the new system. But the records follow....

And yes, GYNs withhold treatment all the time for these. The stories are rampant from women trying to get tubals and can't because we're too young/not enough children/etc. It's unfortunately a well known problem. There's been some discussion of a class action suit or a civil rights suit, but who would we sue?

[mondo joe]

37. I would be a big bearded deep voiced handmaid.

With the biggest clitoris in all of Gilead.

At least that would be my cover!

[Sugar Smack]

39. WHOA!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!

Excellent!!!!!!!!!!!! Lookahere, though- what if you were to be forced to live WITHOUT A SENSE OF HUMOR??? You have a good one, and I suspect that would not go down well in Gilead.....Anxiously awaiting your reply!!!

;-)

[Niccolo_Macchiavelli]

40. Handmaids that don't give birth do not last long in Gilead

i'd be a heretic outlander

[Sugar Smack]

42. Niccolo!!!!!!!!!!!!

How would you survive it, though????

[Niccolo_Macchiavelli]

45. i'd be in europe

that simple, just a foreigner, or a potential tourist?

[Sugar Smack]

49. I'd want to be in Europe too-

watching all of it from a distance. PREFERABLY AT SOME CAFE, with a laptop, drinking coffee or beer, and saying, "My God, I'm so horribly glad I escaped that."

[mondo joe]

46. Once they have tasted the Mondo they will find a way to keep me.

Honest.

[solinvictus]

41. Yes. But likely not for long..

I'd take as many as I could out if I were caught unaware. If I could get away, I'd likely be some sort of guerilla.

[Sugar Smack]

44. I would survive it too, but not for long-

I would never have a history, unless my "vantity" made it possible. I would make sure there was some kind of record of my life before I succumbed to it, and I would make sure somebody learned from it-remember "nolite de bastardes decoromburum"? That was the effort of the girl before trying to make her determination heard.

[Sugar Smack]

48. Would your sanity survive

if you remembered how it was when you were allowed to hug your loved ones/ cash a check/ remember how it was when you could choose what you wanted to do?

[AmandaRuth]

50. as a registered democrat, and a PCO

I am sure I would be shipped off to clean the nuclear waste lands.

[intheflow]

56. Yes, I'd survive.

I've lived through enough various oppressions to know I'd survive. It wouldn't be a picnic, it would totally suck, but I'd survive. And somehow find a way to work within the system to undermine the theocracy. If I was caught and forced into a concentration camp, though, all bets are off. But I think I'd be willing to risk it. I'm a hopeless optimist with a strong will to live.

But I still feel your pain. :hug:

[Sugar Smack]

60. Hi, intheflow-

you never know what you can adapt to, do you? As horrible as this administration gets, I become more and more curious as to how bad things can get before people snap. It looks so much like this country is headed on the fast track for "Gilead"-I say that, meaning only if there were another large-scale "terrorist attack".

I really appreciate your response.

:hug:

[Taxloss]

57. I'd be an Undergrounf Femaleroad terminus

As a liberal British citizen, my fiancee and I would be making room for feamle American refugees. Meanwhile, I would be overcoming British conventions and learning to shoot, ready for the reconquest.

[Samurai_Writer]

58. I would be an unwoman and shipped off to the colonies.

Since I'm 44, my tubes are tied, and I would not keep my mouth shut about the injustices. Also, I would be labeled 'dangerous to society' since I have been politically active in feminist issues for several years.

I would probably find a way to kill myself before I got shipped out to clean up nuclear waste with my bare hands, though.

[noonwitch]

63. I live in a border city, so unless Gilead nukes Detroit

I'll be able to get to Windsor easily. Occupying Detroit would be very tough for the Republic's military, because they would be constantly fighting off well-armed locals.