Why I thought the world changed on 11- 04- 79 and not 09 -11-01 though I

[Valerie5555]

acually was only a third grader when that hostage stuff happened:


(1) That was the day when the word "highjacking" could apply to embassies as well as airliners



(2) The terrorists' "war" with the United States may have began in earnest that day (as in on 11-04-79).


(3) If not for that darned H - word incident neither Ronbo Raygun, nor George Herbert Walker Bush or more accurately, George Herbert Traitor (for he may have done a dirty deal w./ Iran to delay the release of those captives) Bush, wouldn't have been able to have a "foot in the door" to the American Presidency.

[Peace_2_Everyone]

1. Yes Valerie5555 I think you’re right on there.

it may not have been the beginning but it certainly a big step toward today's problems.
It certainly was the military/ CIA /? Flexing their musle and railroadeding President Carter for sure.


Iranian Hostage Crisis
On November 4, 1979, 3,000 militants overran the U.S. Embassy in Teheran and captured 54 embassy staff members

In April 1980, a U.S. rescue mission failed. The hostages were released in 1981, on President Ronald Reagan's inauguration day, 444 days after they were taken.

http://www.super70s.com/Super70s/News/1979/November/4-Iranian_Hostage_Crisis.asp

[Valerie5555]

3. Not only that, some

:tinfoilhat: types may have said, and may still say, that the "accident" that doomed Eagle's Claw to failure may NOT HAVE been an accident at all.

[Maccagirl]

2. You make a valid point

Carter's handling of the hostage crisis certainly helped RR Superstar. I look back on it and ask-where was the INTERNATIONAL outrage? It was the start of Americans viewing themselves as victims-thus the knee-jerk cowboy mentality rearing it's ugly head. There are still questions regarding Henry Kissinger and David Rockefeller's roles in bringing the hated Shah to the US for treatment.

[Valerie5555]

4. And it may be true the Shah actually hated Carter, and his friends

Messrs. Kissinger and Rockefeller were no doubt RETCHPUBLICANS.


Am sure it may have been little wonder Americans made a big deal over Canada putting one over on the late Ayatollah, by sneaking the Americans who eluded capture at their embassy out of Iran.

[Name removed]

5. Deleted message

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[Valerie5555]

6. But wasn't it really the case that the United States even put the USA in

USAMA as in USAMA BIN LADEN at one time? Namely under Reagan and Bush 1, and possibly under Carter?

[Andy_Stephenson]

18. Google the name "Tim Osman"

http://www.worldnewsstand.net/03/SR/1-5.htm|Here>

[Valerie5555]

20. Wonder if he is still working for the CIA, hmmmmmmmmmmmmmmmmm.............

.................................... You really never know,:tinfoilhat:, :shrug:.

[Andy_Stephenson]

28. Once CIA

always CIA

[Octafish]

29. It isn't necessarily a bad thing.

The Agency does some outstanding work. Some people within it may be bad eggs, but the vast majority are good people and excellent public servants. JFK thought Allen Dulles to be one of the latter. Wonder if JFK knew Poppy?

Excerpted from Gus Russo, Live by the Sword (Maryland: Bancroft, 1998), pp. 31- 36:

The Kennedy brothers had also preserved a long-lasting association with Allen Dulles, then CIA Director. Letters in both the Kennedy and Dulles collections reflect that John and Robert Kennedy maintained correspondence with both Dulles brothers from at least 1955. Traveling in the same social sphere, Allen Dulles and John Kennedy were "comfortable with one another and there was a lot of mutual respect," Richard Bissell said in an interview. In fact, Kennedy was known to regard Dulles as a legendary figure. Historian Herbert Parmet wrote, "Dulles often went to the Charles Wrightsman estate near Joe Kennedy's Palm Beach House. As far back as Jack's early days, they socialized down in Florida, much of the time swimming and playing golf." Dulles himself said, "I knew Joe quite well from the days when he was head of the Securities and Exchange Commission." . . .

Dulles first met Jack Kennedy at the Kennedy Florida compound in 1955. They became fast friends. "Our contact was fairly continuous," Dulles later said. "When was in Palm Beach, we always got together." Jack came to revere both Dulles' intellect and accomplishments.

Robert Kennedy, too, was clearly impressed with Dulles. Regarding his performance at the time of the Bay of Pigs, Robert Kennedy later recalled, "Allen Dulles handled himself awfully well, with a great deal of dignity, and never attempted to shift the blame. The President was very fond of him, as I was." He elaborated to historian Arthur Schlesinger, "He liked him -- thought he was a real gentleman, handled himself well. There were obviously so many mistakes made at the time of the Bay of Pigs that it wasn't appropriate that he should stay on. And he always took the blame. He was a real gentleman. JFK thought very highly of him."

Dulles kept a variety of Kennedy secrets from the public. For example, when John Kennedy won the election in November 1960, the CIA under Dulles conducted a background investigation of Kennedy in anticipation of his first intelligence briefing as President-elect on November 18. Such investigations were designed to predict how the subject would respond when informed of the full range of CIA operations, and to show Dulles the most effective method of appeal. Prepared by CIA psychologists, the study included hot evidence from the FBI: the indiscretion of a youthful Jack Kennedy, at the height of World War II, with alleged Nazi spy Inga Arvad Fejos. In 1942, while serving in the Office of Naval Intelligence in Washington, Jack Kennedy had established this potentially dangerous liaison. The FBI, which had wiretapped Arvad, initially compiled the file. Historian Thomas Reeves wrote:

CONTINUED...

http://www.jfk-online.com/jfkdullescia.html

[Octafish]

7. October Surprise

The Iranian Hostage Crisis cost Jimmy Carter the election. The thing was more than just an allegation of Bush and Casey meeting with the Iranians in Paris before the election, the thing had cruel tentacles extending throughout the Carter Administration.

Pro-Bush CIA officers — within the government — treasonously aided and abetted the terrorists, to the detriment of Carter, politically; the hostages, physically; and the country, Constitutionally. This sending of arms to terrorists was later reconstituted as US policy in the Iran-Contra affair — many of the same sinister players were involved.

One intrepid independent investigator, Daniel "Danny" Casolaro, described this intricate web of traitors as an OCTOPUS that goes back in America's secret history to the NAZI-CIA Operation PAPERCLIP days though the Bay of Pigs Things through the JFK assassination through Vietnam through Watergate through October Surprise thrugh Iran-Contra through Iraq-Gate and through BCCI and the S&Ls, where he was murdered.

Had he lived through the 1990s and early part of the 21st century, Danny Casolaro would have seen the OCTOPUS extended through MonicaGate, Selection 2000, ENRON Energy Policy, 9-11 and the PermaWAR.

Casolaro was found in a West Virginia hotel, his wrists slashed, his body in a bathtub, next to an empty wine bottle. His body was embalmed before autopsy, contrary to the law in West Virginia. For background, the Columbia Journalism Review printed in 1991 a fine recap:

http://www.cjr.org/archives.asp?url=/91/6/octopus.asp

[Valerie5555]

8. That and "Operation Eagle's Claw's" not being an accident (or so according

to the "tinfoil hat" set,), may be Bush Snr's, or George Herbert Traitor Bush's, revenge on Jimmy Carter for having him fired as CIA director the way SEXGATE may be his revenge on Bill Clinton, for "pruning" him politically in 1992.

[Octafish]

9. Yeh. Donald Gregg, Robert Gates, Richard Secord, Ollie North.

A case of Treason can be made against these men during their terms of military and civilian service to the United States of America. Today they are treated as heroes by the BFEE Media.


CAMPAIGN 1980 & THE IRAN-CONTRA AFFAIR

©2002 by Jim Moore

In 1980, Jim Moore became Davidson County co-chairman of the John Anderson presidential campaign. It was, compared to his earlier adventures, a pretty tame experience, but not without its surprises - including Republican dirty tricks aimed directly at Anderson's daughter. That story has never been told before now.

John Anderson is not just the man who ran against Ronald Reagan and Jimmy Carter as an independent in 1980. He is also the man who approached Carter during that campaign and warned him that the White House had been infiltrated by a Reagan operative, Donald Gregg, who had stolen Carter's debate workbook, which contained key strategies and questions. Anderson had information relating to the Iranian hostage crisis in which Reagan and Bush actually paid the Iranians to hold onto the hostages longer, thus helping to ensure Carter's defeat.

Carter had been deeply humiliated when a rescue mission turned into a fiery disaster after the rescue helicopters crashed in a sandstorm. What Carter did not know - and may not know to this day - is that a gungho colonel named Oliver North was a key player in that disaster. Someone had removed some of the sand filters from the helicopters, and that is what led to their crash when, without filters, the engines clogged up.

Earlier in 1980, Carter set out to free the hostages with "Operation Eagle Claw," built around a surprise helicopter landing and secret assault on the building where they were held in Teheran.

CONTINUED...

http://www.geocities.com/omegareport/Authors/04-Moore-g.htm

PS: Thanks for remembering what I was talking about, Valerie5555! You know a great deal for someone so young! Good on you and take good care!

[Valerie5555]

10. Holy smoke!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!! Billy Boy as in Bill Clinton

had been about my age when he first ran for Arkansas Gov.


Had found out about most of the hostage stuff like the Oct. Surprise through later reading as I got older.

[Name removed]

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[Octafish]

12. The problems go deeper than a stolen election or an illegal war.

They go back to the very basis of today's political reality — the corrupt national security state. It's no obsesson to consider historical precedent to better understand how we got here. Perhaps those most confused are without deep political background, which, you may be surprised to discover, is dimmed by the very depth of criminality which is the OCTOPUS, or what DU terms the Bush Family Evil Empire, or what I like to call the Bush Organized Crime Family.

BTW: Instead of asking "What do you know about the subject?" why did you prefer to make observations of what you term my mental state? By writing that I am "obsessing over conspricy theories over 20 years old," are you accusing me of being a "conspiracy nut"? My references to High Treason in days gone by could also have included the work of the Mafia, Mossad, and Saudis. I was simply too angry to remember to type their sorry asses in.

P.S. One more important point: A hearty welcome to DU, venmax!

[Valerie5555]

14. How about the BUSH MAFIA?????????????????????????

ntn

[Valerie5555]

13. Isn't "Bush Snr. put the USA in USAMA " a 20 odd year old

conspiracy theory too??????????????????????

[Name removed]

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[Octafish]

16. Elect John Kerry.

He's gone after these crooks since he was an adult. He believed in his government when he volunteered to serve as an officer in the US Navy after graduation from Yale. After his heroic serice in Vietnam, he returned home and resigned his commission so he could work in the efforts to end the war.

That'd be enough for most people. Kerry became an attorney and then a Massachusetts district attorney. In that capacity he helped put Mafia people behind bars.

In the Senate, Kerry investigated corruption in government, the ranks of lobbyists, and big money financiers. His work uncovered evidence linking the Reagan-Bush White House to Iran-Contra drug runners, bipartisan corruption in the BCCI bank, and

As so many of the top players in those conspiracies are still around playing roles in the Invasion of Iraq (like Richard Cheney and George W Bush, as well as Richard Perle and Adnan Khashoggi), you might see why it is relevant today.

And of course, with his encyclopedic knowledge and duplicate records of all the above shenanigans, Sen. John Kerry has the kind of valuable "experience" needed to kick the Little Turd back to Crawfurd and from there into an orange jail jump suit.

[Name removed]

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[Andy_Stephenson]

19. Not A damned thing...

He is BFEE. Bushco whatever you want to call it. If Kerry Wins...Bushco/PNAC wins. Look at Kerry's advisors... PNACer's. PLus he has been lockstep with the agenda.

[Octafish]

21. Here's why KERRY IS NOT BFEE:

Don't bust a nut, but here's a photo of who Kerry knew, way back when. One of the seminal events in the rise to power of the BFEE was the assassination of President Kennedy 40 years ago. The murder led directly to the escalation of Vietnam — which Kennedy opposed and LBJ and the Generals Motors, Electric, and Dynamics favored — and from there to the rise of the national security state.

And, as the late Danny Casolaro worked to establish, there are many on DU who can make a direct case from the BFEE of today to then and from there back to the origins of the CIA and their invite to the NAZIs post-World War II. That's not theory, those are facts.

FYI: For the first time since Robert F. Kennedy, In John Kerry we have a candidate who has the brains, backbone, and history needed to beat the bed-wetting fascist bastards at the ballot box. Why do you all seem so scared at the prospect? It's the BFEE that should be worried. They're going to jail, if they're lucky.



Kerry, left, sails with President John F. Kennedy
aboard the 62-foot Coast Guard yawl Manitou
in Narragansett Bay on Aug. 26, 1962.

[Name removed]

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[Valerie5555]

22. And two words

SKULL AND BONES, right????????

[baldguy]

25. You forget. The people who organized the October Suprise . . .

. . . are the same people who first trained, financed and set up bin Laden in the terrorist business. They're the same people who financed terrorists in Central America and Africa with money from Iran. They're the same people who supported and armed Saddam and gave him the OK to invade Kuwait- then attacked him for doing so. And they're the same people who stole the 2000 election.

That "conspiacy theory" from 20 yrs ago has direct bearing on what is happening today.

[Ani Yun Wiya]

24. In point of fact...

The game now afoot is actually older in origin than 1979.
It had its real startup back in '53 with the assasination of an elected president in Iran, by none other than our own boys in the CIA. Another step in the process occured in '63 when the Ba'athists were eased into power in Iraq by the very same bunch.

One could even go back a bit further if the Brits were included in the equation.

[tinanator]

26. try 47-48

The ugly history of Iran's sojourn turned on the 53 events, but our final descent began in post WWII plans for the National Security State.

[Octafish]

27. Guess which member of the Secret Team wrote it?

The National Security Act of 1947, which created the National Security Council, the Central Intelligence Agency, and much of what we call the national security state was co-written by Clark Clifford. Called counsel to the Presidents (Democratic, mostly through Carter), Clifford is the same guy who would later "beard" for the owners of BCCI.

[populistmom]

30. I realized this at a young age as well

I was still 8 when Reagan was elected. The day those hostages were released, it was obvious a deal was made. I will never trust that crowd and often wonder just how stupid are Americans to be manipulated like that?

[tinanator]

31. well bipartisanship does wonders

especially when it comes to covering up treason by GHWB. And that is how we lost democracy, folks.