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If * pulls another coup in '04, will there be an "Underground Resistance"?

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liberalhistorian Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Sat Sep-13-03 08:56 PM
Original message
If * pulls another coup in '04, will there be an "Underground Resistance"?
I am becoming more and more frightened of and infuriated by the Bushistas, with every passing day their statements and actions grow worse and more absurd and we get deeper and deeper into the hole. And I am becoming more convinced than ever before that the BFEE and their cohorts will find a way to continue his "presidency" beyond 2004, whether by fixing voting machines, declaring a "national emergency" and cancelling elections due to said "emergency", causing or allowing another "terrattack", or by any other nefarious means they can come up with.

As my screen name indicates, I am a historian, although an amateur one (I have a B.A. in history, but I work as a paralegal), who has studied 1930's Germany, the Holocaust, and WWII at length for many years and I see so many parallels to Germany in the 1930's that's it's downright eerie and very frightening. I believe that 9/11 was Smirk's version of Hitler's Reichstag Fire, and Americans are as clueless about that and the incredible manipulation involved as the German citizens were.

Never, not in five million years, did I ever, ever, EVER think my own country would be moving so dangerously close to the same situation. Every time I'd read another book or research paper, or see another documentary or movie about the subject, or talk to a Holocaust survivor, I'd thank God that I was living in the USA where such things were so unlikely as to be almost impossible. Ha! What naivete! People are people are people, no matter what country they live in or how much they pride themselves on "diversity and tolerance." Call me paranoid. Call me a Chicken Little. Call me overdramatic or crazy, but I know my history and I know what's going on and what will happen if * remains in power beyond 2004.

What brought this thread on tonight is that I just saw the new documentary on Dietrich Bonhoeffer, the German theologian who resisted the Nazis, was involved in an early plot to kill Hitler (that didn't, quite unfortunately, succeed), and who was murdered by the Nazis in April of 1945. He began to recognize early on the danger posed by Hitler's rule and to see through his manipulations and propaganda, as well as what he was doing to anyone who wasn't what he considered an "Aryan", to dissenters and those who disagreed with him, and what his "final plans" for such groups were. He spent some time teaching in a theological seminary in New York City in the 1930's, and was greatly influenced by the strong social activist bent of the African-American churches he visited and became familiar with. Though he could have remained in the States, he chose to return to Germany so he could join the resistance there and try to stop what was happening. He came to realize that his Christian beliefs and theology required him to work within the system to resist evil, in other words, to not resort to evil in order to fight evil; however, when faced with the total, all-consuming, Satanic evil of something like the Nazis, any act in resistance against such evil, including murder, was permissible, and that God would understand.

Bonhoeffer, too, thought he'd never seen such things happening in his own country. But he joined the resistance group, and never regretted it. I have been talking with members of a newly-formed group in Cleveland (I live in a suburb of it) called the Blue Triangle Group. This is an immigrants-rights group whose purpose is to support Arab, Muslim, Indian, and Southeast Asian immigrants, as well as Arab-Americans, to advocate on their behalf, and to work to protect their rights. I have been hearing some real horror stories about what many of these immigrants and Arab-Americans are going through at the hands of the police and the government, it's enough to curl your hair. And you don't hear about it in our so-called "liberal media", either. And most people still don't believe that such things are happening. They are, but under the radar. It's called the Blue Triangle Group, because each person in the Nazi camps was given a triangle with a particular color to symbolize their "offense" (pink for homosexuals, Jews had a color, etc., etc.), and immigrants and non-Jewish racial undesirables were given the color blue.

So, what I'm wondering is, if the Bushista Cabal remains in power after the 2004 election, and you know they'll do EVERYTHING POSSIBLE to ensure that that's the case, will there be a substantial resistance group similar to those in 1930's and WWII Germany, in this country? Will there be enough people who will recognize the need for resistance and be unafraid to join together, no matter the consequences? And would you be among them?

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soothsayer Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Sat Sep-13-03 08:58 PM
Response to Original message
1. If there's a revolution, count me in
If there's another funky voting situation, I hope folks don't sit on their hands this time.

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JanMichael Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Sat Sep-13-03 09:02 PM
Response to Original message
2. Just don't read "The Iron Heel" or "It can't Happen Here"!!!
I've read the first last week and will read the other next week...

Needless to say the parallels are chilling when compared to both the Jack London/Sinclair Lewis novels and Human History.

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Oracle Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Sat Sep-13-03 09:04 PM
Response to Original message
3. I live in N CA but I'm going to hitch hike if I have to,
Edited on Sat Sep-13-03 09:05 PM by Oracle
protest the republicans policy for another four years, next year in New York city at the republican convention.
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LoZoccolo Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Sat Sep-13-03 09:05 PM
Response to Original message
4. 1930's Germany vs. Today
You should write something up on the parallels; it'd be a good thing to pass around, especially if there's a lot of quotes from the Nazi propaganda compared to the Bush administration's. I was just thinking today that it would be cool to do that, but I don't know that much of the history.
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liberalhistorian Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Sat Sep-13-03 10:04 PM
Response to Reply #4
15. That's a good idea, maybe I"ll get to work
on that! God knows there's enough material already.
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Fla_Democrat Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Sat Sep-13-03 09:05 PM
Response to Original message
5. Define "resistance"
:shrug:
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Kathy in Cambridge Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Sat Sep-13-03 09:09 PM
Response to Original message
6. I have a BA in History too and studied Europe 1900-45
focused on 'fascinating fascism'. The parallels are real-Joseph Goebbels would be proud of the Bush propaganda machine.

if the country is still in recession, we are bogged down in Iraq, and the media grows some cojones, an attempt by BushCo to steal the election again will be met with resistance. Americans are fat and lazy, but i don't think most of them will be fooled again.
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Boom_cha Donating Member (431 posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Sat Sep-13-03 09:12 PM
Response to Original message
7. Greg Palast said
Edited on Sat Sep-13-03 09:14 PM by Boom_cha
in The Best Democracy Money Can Buy that in 2000 there were three presidential coups--in the US, Peru, and I forget the third country. In only one of the three cases did the coup stand. In the other two cases, the people took to the streets and succeeded in overturning the coup. His point, as I recall, is that the only safeguard against coups is the people's willingness to take to the street and protest en masse. So rather than underground resistance, massive overt protest may be the way to go, assuming that such protests can be mobilized.
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FarLeftRage Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Sat Sep-13-03 09:13 PM
Response to Original message
8. If that should happen
and I won't discount that with these idiots, I think you'll see enough people in this country to pull a forcible change (revolution).

The level of misery and discontent grows higher with each and every passing day.

With that being stated, I see no other way out...

More people out of work
More people hungry
More people dying due to lack of health care
More people with sons and daughters being sacrificed in wars for corpoRATions...

This all adds up to a much needed change in government.
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Zhade Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Sat Sep-13-03 09:16 PM
Response to Original message
9. Careful, LH - I had a post deleted for less than what you've said here...!
NT!
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Cha Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Sat Sep-13-03 09:18 PM
Response to Original message
10. I'm getting the feeling that what is happening Now is an
"Underground Resistance"! That enough People, like yourself, realize that it is Now we have to act and Not after the fact like 2000!

I believe they are going to lose but am wondering what they will be doing to try and "resist"?

I know they have discussed this on the Mike Malloy Show and Mike says he will definetly be in the streets if the worst happens and the bushitistas take over the Country with another coup in 2004! :kick:
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Gman Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Sat Sep-13-03 09:30 PM
Response to Original message
11. This is something better discussed with 128 bit encription
starting around the first of the year.
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Patriot_Spear Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Sat Sep-13-03 09:31 PM
Response to Original message
12. You realize everyone who posts on this thread will go on a list...
...Damn. I guess that means me too.
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Oracle Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Sat Sep-13-03 09:32 PM
Response to Original message
13. War has served as the last great safeguard...
Edited on Sat Sep-13-03 09:52 PM by Oracle
it is highly intriquing to compare the recommendations of this report with life in the US today. The Iron Mountain "boys" listed these possible subsitutes for the "function of war"

--a comprehensive social-welfare program

--a giant, openended space research program aimed at unreachable targets (missions to Jupiter, etc.)

--a permanent ritualized ultraelaborate disarament inspection (as in Iraq and Bosnia)

--omnipresent international policeforce (a UN peacekeeping force as in the Persian Gulf)

--massive global pollution

--fictitous alternate enemies (Hussien, Talaban)

--a modern sophisticated form of slavery

--new religious or other mytholgies (new Age theologies, cults, etc.)

--socially oriented blood games (the NFL, World Wrestling Federation.)

--a comprehesive program of applied eugenics (abortion and birth control)

Most significantly, the report states, "the elimination of war implies the ineviable elimination of national sovereignty and the traditional nation states" it added, "The possibility of war provides the sense of external necessity without which no government can long remain in power"..."The basic authority of a modern state over it's people resides it's war powers."
War has served as the last great safeguard against the elimination of necessary social classes...

From: Rule By Secrecy -by Jim Marrs 2001 (Harper-Collins)
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buff2 Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Sat Sep-13-03 10:00 PM
Response to Original message
14. Count me in,too
:hi:I have the same fears :scared: and all I can think about is how crucial it is to get rid of Bu$h and his nazis. I knew when he stole the presidency it was going to be bad.....but this is far worse than I could ever have imagined.Another stolen election and I will be in the streets with someone or without. I don't care what it takes,but I will not sit by and let this idiot do this again to us and our country without fighting back. Enough is enough! :argh:
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liberalhistorian Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Sat Sep-13-03 10:44 PM
Response to Reply #14
17. I'm with you, I don't care what it takes,
either! And like you said, I knew, when * was selected, that it would be bad but it's far worse than anything I could have imagined.
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xJlM Donating Member (955 posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Sat Sep-13-03 10:06 PM
Response to Original message
16. I bet a lot won't do a thing
Not implying anyone here (most of you folks help me have some optimism), but a lot of America seems all ready to write it off as more of the same old shit. And of course, the repugs are counting on this...
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iangb Donating Member (444 posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Sat Sep-13-03 11:18 PM
Response to Original message
18. Start Now!
It's the Presidential Emergency Powers that could make a cancelled election possible. Unless Congress can be convinced to limit them BEFORE a real (or contrived) situation that would make such a move seem 'unpatriotic' it could 'Be all over Red Rover'.

You MUST convince your Rep's to move to have those powers limited........now damnit!
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BiggJawn Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Sat Sep-13-03 11:41 PM
Response to Original message
19. Oh, good heavens, NO!
We should be GOOD little Murkans, and keep shopping to the end of our lives and money, and take a flight at least once a week, and tune our TV's to FAUX and throw away the channel knobs....

And that sig line of mine ain't all about Easter Seals, dig?
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