Lord help me! I'm beginning to HATE christians! I dont want to...

[maveric]

but the more time goes by, the more the hateful ignorance I see, the more it influences my family and me, the more I'm hating!

I'm not a hateful person either.

Are there any "Real" christians left? If so post here to help me reafirm my beleif that christianity is a religion of peace and wisdom.

This is really eating me up here!

Help me please!

[LynzM]

1. My brother is one

He really tries to follow the things Jesus taught, about helping the poor, being kind, respecting other people's beliefs and opinions, and not pushing his religion onto people. He'll certainly tell you about it, but he's not going to throw it in your face. He's a social liberal, and believes pretty much in live and let live, and that the gov't should pretty much stay away from doing anything based on religion.

[LiberalFighter]

22. Need more Christians like him

[LynzM]

31. Yeah, we do...

I mean, if you're going to call yourself a CHRISTian, you should at least pay some attention to what Jesus said, not just the book of Leviticus, and the writings of Paul. Meh.

[OldLeftieLawyer]

2. You don't hate Christians

Real Christians aren't out there doing the shit that's bugging you.

Those are "professional Christians," and they're nothing remotely associated with the teaching of Christ.

They're scum. You do well to hate them.

But, see, you and I are probably Christians - I try - and you like me, don't you?

Feel better, sweetie?

[maveric]

16. I'm trying to feel better! I was raised Catholic and was always made

to beleive that we are to help our fellow humankind. Be tolerant, kind, generous, etc... I've always tried to do those things and most of the time its blown up in my face. But I've always maintained my faith. Over tha past few years I've witnessed so much hate, greed,intolerance, homphobia, racism and hypocracy, done in the name of Christ that I'm teetering on atheism and turning to hate. This is making me "hate" myself for being that way.

[OldLeftieLawyer]

34. Don't.

I, too, was raised Catholic, and now I don't believe any of it. None. Not even the existence of a god.

But I do believe that the teachings of Christ were good guidelines for how to live a righteous life.

Don't give those lowlifes the power over you. Don't let them take away from you what you love and believe. Be strong, and do not ever let people who are not your equals in any way redefine you according to what they do.

The very fact that you're upset about this tells me that you're all right. Any sane and healthy human being, living now in our country, should be conflicted.

But, never surrender what you love. Never give up what you are.

[FreedomAngel82]

18. Right

I'm Christian too and can tell you also the people you're upset at aren't Christians even though they claim to be.

[housewolf]

3. I think you might still like Liberal Christians

There's the ones trying to get to heaven through their private practice of religion and doing good works. They really are very good people, I think you might still like them.

[IndianaGreen]

4. Some people lump all Muslims into the same terrorist pot

We should not repeat the same mistake with Christians, or any other religious group.

[RaleighNCDUer]

5. Please, don't say that.

The only thing that's been keeping me sane for the past several years is that I moved from the mid-west to NC, where I've felt barraged by RW fundies, and I've held out the hope that everything was OK, I could always go back home to some place sane.

Please don't tell me it's this way all over the country, now.

[lastknowngood]

6. Go the the UUC and get a dose of real Christians it will do you

a world of good. Being a pagan I feel very comfortable with them and them with me. It's so refreshing talking to people whose IQ doesn't drop a 100 points when that talk religion.

[Tux]

38. Also

Try UUA. They're open to anyone. My local church has the following: Christians, Zen Biddhists, pagans, Hindu, atheists, secular/religious humanists, generic spiritualists, and Muslim/Islamic leaning folks.

[Biased Liberal Media]

7. I don't hate Christians. I'm no Christian but I do not like

those who hide behind their religion to justify their hatred and ignorance.

[candy331]

8. You want know real Christians readily because they don't blow their

trumpets loudly to get a hearing, they just live the life that real Christians are admonished to do. Christ the real Christian told his disciples not to tell who he was and had to be kissed by a traitor to have his identity revealed publicly. Never read in the Bible where it said to wear Christian on your forehead or spew it from your lips at all times rather it said " the tree is known by the kind of fruit it bears".

[FreedomAngel82]

21. Yep

You should read about the Pharasiee's and Sadusee's and what God taught about freaks like the rightwingers.

[lonestarnot]

9. Don't hate me! I'm on your side! Fook! n/t

[RustNeverSleeps]

10. Christians and the Right

I was raised Evangelical-type church--so I know a bit about this subject. You have to understand that Evangelicals have always been a tad crazy. What's scary now is that they are being used as a voting block for the neo-cons. My experience is that the Evangelicals are basically not good people. They lie, cheat, and will do just about anything to get their way. They truly believe that any bad things they do are forgiven because Jesus loves them and their ticket has been pre-punched for heaven.

[Bluebear]

11. RNS welcome to DU!

[Canuckistanian]

12. If it helps, this seems to be only an 'american' phenomenon

Up here in Canada, we do have Christians but they don't advocate death to their opponents or take over governments or stink from hypocrisy.
You'll find the same in most civilised countries.
It seems a shame that a country that has specific rules against church/state separation is rapidly moving to a rabid theocracy.
But, take heart. These things always move in cycles. There was a huge spasm of 'christian outrage' in the 1920's, too. It passed.

[ultraist]

13. Yes, there are. Look into the faith based peace activists

There are religious groups that are liberal and do a lot of charity work. We are seeing the nuts, only. The squeaky wheel gets the grease.

[boomboom]

14. A true Christian

would not inspire your hatred or anger. A true Christian is to be an inspiration to the world. Many people spewing hatred these days in the name of Christianity are not true Christians. Rejoice that you are discerning enough to recognize one from another. Then, gather around a closer circle of those who lead a real Christian life. Not just when it benefits them. I too am outraged at the manipulation being done by those who claim to be Christian. But, it's not for me to judge. I devote my heart and mind to the Lord. Not these "kings" on earth.

[blogbear]

15. I Hear You And Don't Hate Anyone or Be Consumed by Hate..

I have to fight hate too and am sure that many people feel this way and understand what you're talking about..Instead of hating maybie we need to open our hearts and minds even more. I know this may seem easier said than done but this world is in such a bad fix right now that we really all need to get our heads on more than ever and help each other through a bad time. We can do it! Dont't hate..but love, learn, feel, empathize, give, and live!

[Tux]

43. Same here

As a Buddhist, I'm supposed to control my extreme ranges of hate (and medical conidtion causes it too) but it is hard but i do keep this in mind.

Yoda once said to a little boy after the boy told him it didn't matter if he felt scared, "Fear leads anger. Anger leads to hate. Hate leads to suffering."

Buddha would be proud of Yoda.

[ScreamingMeemie]

53. And yet, you accuse Christians of arrogance.

Rich.

[Tux]

55. No one is perfect

But believing that Christians are right and all others are wrong just because some book said so isns't arrogant?

[ScreamingMeemie]

57. And I never said that in my post. You saw more than the simplicity

that was there. And so, I am labeled dumb as a box of rocks. Oh well.

[classof56]

17. I'm one of those born-again Christians who's also a Liberal.

I share your disgust and frustration about those who are calling themselves Christians, the high-profile right wingers who are doing more to turn people off to Christ'a gospel than they will ever realize. Read the words of Jesus in the gospels. Read the book by Jim Wallis (all of a sudden the title escapes me, but you may have heard of him). Keep focused on what Jesus said about peace, love, wisdom and hope. It's what I cling to now, as I have given up on church and associations with my fellow Christians who have done so much to undermine and diminish my faith. Trying hard to look to God and believe his promise that he loves us no matter what.

Don't know if this helps. You should know that there are those of us believers who hear you, share your anguish and offer you our assurances that we are not ALL like the ones who make the news.

Blessings.

[FreedomAngel82]

26. I'm with you

It's so frustrating with these people who claim to be apart of the same faith as me and they're doing all this hateful stuff because they think they're doing good when they aren't. *sigh*

[keith the dem]

19. Go to www.ucc.org now!

The people you hate are the equivalent of the money-changers Jesus threw out of the Temple....i.e. Jesus didn't like them much either.

[boomboom]

59. my pastor

a Southern Baptist, has mentioned that Jesus was kind and merciful with those committing "sexual" sins. His only ire was raised by greed and false idol worship. I found this to be truly profound

[janx]

20. Don't hate Christians. There are many private Christians who

try to honor the teachings of Jesus Christ and who lead exemplary lives. There have been many governments throughout history who have taken advantage of faith.

[journalist3072]

23. I am a Christian

And am disgusted by what a lot of so-called "Christians" are doing.

I've said it before and I'll say it again: it's exactly because of my Christian values (and not in spite of them), that I am someone who is left-of-center.

I believe that if we want Jesus Christ to say to us "well done thou good and faithful servant" then we have to live up to his admonition that as we have done it for the least among us, we have done it for him.

And I don't see that value being espoused by a lot of so-called Christians on the right.

And for all of their talk about promoting a culture of life, I think we have an obligation to help people live more happier and healthier lives, which means providing them with universal health care, providing them with jobs, etc.

So in short, my advice to you is to take a deep breath, relax, and realize that a lot of those people professing to be Christians aren't really Christians at all.

[dsewell]

24. Jim Wallis's book is a good antidote

I've just finished "God's Politics" and recommend it. I was prepared to dislike it because I'm a member of Americans United for Separation of Church and State, which comes under brief fire for "secular fundamentalism" in Wallis's book. But I came away impressed with Wallis's deep commitment to social justice and honesty despite disagreeing with a few of his opinions.

In an odd way, I'm thankful to the rabid religious right, because they've been forcing me, a nearly lifelong agnostic, to dig deeply into my core values and to find the place where I say "Here I stand." A lot of nonreligious folks (and casual religious folks) just don't bother to spend much time thinking about ultimate questions, and we need to be prodded now and then to do so. I'm feeling a hell of a lot less apologetic about my secularism than I was a few months ago (when the common wisdom was that Democrats should be talking more about religion), because I think I've found a way to express its positive values.

So maybe one lesson is not to obsess over why others are wrong, but take the occasion to explore why you believe you are right.

[Tux]

45. Can't remember the guy's name now

But he had a theory of sociocultural change based on a cycle of materialism, psuedo-spirituality, spirituality, psudo-materialism, repeat.

He said that by now we'd be entering the spiritual phase but each change is hard at times. His evidence is based on several societies over centuries. As time goes one the cycle gets faster.

We did need to bring up religion but this is not the best way to do it.

[derby378]

25. Quakers, Mennonites, etc.

Hang in there - it's the neo-fascist pseudo-Christian fundies that have you up in arms. Keep your focus.

[Lindacooks]

27. I'm a Christian, and I understand how you feel.

Here's my take - God is love. Whether a person goes to 'hell' or 'heaven', if there is such a thing, depends on what's in their hearts: love or hate.

Read 'The Last Battle' by C.S. Lewis - the final chapter is what I believe. There, some of the 'sworn enemy' looked at Aslan (the God figure in the book) with love and went with him. And some of the 'faithful' looked at Aslan with hate and went away.

To me, Christianity means abiding by the words of Christ, as much as possible: being inclusive, helping the poor and children, taking care of the environment, not aiding the rich. My dh puts this best - 'If you were a supreme being and saw all the suffering in the world, but everyone was spending all their time praising you, wouldn't you say 'for pete's sake, get out there and help your fellow man - I've had plenty of worship already.'

[Extend a Hand]

28. as a Christian, I am *appalled*...

by the immoral and unchristian actions of both political and religious leaders of the far right and dominionist movements...
the attacks on the poor in our country
the war in Iraq
the abuse of prisoners
the breaking of treaties
the unethical politics
the destruction of our environment
the attempts to replace our democratic republic with a theocracy
the ignorance, the hate mongering,
the undermining of scientific inquiry...

I don't understand it. I can't fathom it.

I am saddened that you see these people as representative of all Christians-- but I can certainly understand it.

I suppose that many Muslims feel the same way when Islam is defined for many by extremists that resort to terrorism.

Here is a site that is devoted to true Christian values
http://www.jesusonthefamily.org/

Here is an article written by a Christian (Katherine Yurika) that explains:
"Why Bush’s Agenda Is Immoral and an Abomination to God"
http://www.yuricareport.com/Religion/TheBloodGuiltyChurches.html

The whole situation is soooooo depressing.

[Lydia Leftcoast]

29. We're not all like that

:-)

[Nikepallas]

30. I know what you are saying I myself get that way too. I might suggest

keeping this image in mind when dealing with them (...a sort of Christian in underwear...) just image that person standing before God, Saint Peter, Michael,whoever>>>>


Heavenly being: So Christian, where you a good person?
Christian: Yes, I was. I followed the commandments and everything the bible and Jesus taught.


Heavenly Being: Really...Well, on my list I see on my list you did not show tolerance to all religions...that you forced some to take the views of christianity...and you voted for George W. Bush 2 times...could you not see he was the right hand of the Anti-Christ,ROVE? We sent several signs of it.


Christian: But I did spread Christ message and tried to open many to the light of truth-.

Heavenly Being: No, no, no. you must go back to earth and start over again.

Christian: re-reincarnation?

Heavenly Being: Yes, you must start life as a snake...

[BeHereNow]

32. Correction: You DON'T hate Christians

You hate the narcissistic and self deluded hypocrites
using Christianity to disguise their uniquely Amerikkkan brand
of fascism and hatred.
If Jesus showed up tomorrow, I know he would feel the
same as you.
BHN

[maveric]

36. If Jesus showed up tomorrow, these Neo-Xtians would kill him

He was a liberal Dammit! He was tolerant! He was peaceful! He was Love!
He was generous! He was logical! He was everything these others AREN'T!
This is just really eating me up and I'm about to lose it!

[BeHereNow]

39. Jesus said:

"By their fruits you shall know them."

Too bad the x-tians lack the humility to
take a look around the orchard and notice
that their fruit is rotting on the ground, stinking
and putrified, not too mention soaked in the
blood of innocents.

I understand how you feel.
BHN

[erinlough]

33. what is bugging me these days

is how it is assumed that if you are living in America you are a Christian or will be respectful and tolerant at all times when Christianity is brought up or mentioned. I do have respect for honest practicing members of any (and I do mean any) religion, I am getting sick of values being assumed to be Christian.

[barb162]

35. some of my good friends are real christians, peaceful, loving

and humanist type people concerned about the world, doing a lot of charity work, etc. My neighbors, so-called Christians, are some of the biggest sociopaths I have ever seen, they'll run you down with their SUVs if you get in their way.

[Maestro]

37. Well I am on my spiritual journey

and it hurts. I want to believe but I am finding that I don't want to because of the minority of freak Christians that seem to command most of the attention. They just follow, follow, follow, never really wanting to learn what true spirituality is. They make me sick.

I am currently reading "Christian Doctrine" by Shirely C. Guthrie. He states that any good Christian should always question and analyze. He goes on to say that bad theologians are those that pretend to have all the answers and see their only taks in life is to convince others of their beliefs, evangelizing. This is what fundies do. They do not think about religion. They think that literal interpretations of the Bible are set in stone and that simply is not the case.

I want to find true Christians, true theologians. Sadly, I have come up short in almost all cases. It is insanely saddening to me. The latest crop of fundies just make me want me to shut the door to religion and never open it up again.

[BeHereNow]

41. Have look at 1John Ch. 4-

The first letter of John, (1 John 4)
gives implicit directions for discerning
false Christians.
You are correct, we are too examine carefully
as so not to be deceived.
What is driving everyone insane is the apparent
large numbers of those who have been deceived
by the spirit of the anti christ, so clearly evident in
the BFEE and the chaos they have wrought when
examined in the light of 1 John Ch. 4.
BHN

[Name removed]

42. Deleted message

Message removed by moderator. Click here to review the message board rules.

[BeHereNow]

44. Welcome to DU

You should probably read the rules again.
Saying "fuck Christians" is really not okay
and will most likely result in your post
being deleted and a reprimand from the Admin.
BHN

[maveric]

40. And now this thread!

http://www.democraticunderground.com/discuss/duboard.php?az=view_all&address=104x3328116

[Ladyhawk]

46. I have this problem sometimes.

Recently a "christian" on DU got into my business and behaved exactly like the fundies I so detest.

I've decided to just take each person as an individual...but I have to admit, I finally completely gave up on fundies. If someone is religious, I am extra careful. If they're religious, there's a good chance they're also dogmatic. I even gave up what was supposed to be a "secular" class because the curriculum had obviously been ripped from a religious source and was being portrayed as "the truth." Ladyhawk isn't down with that.

I don't like feeling this way, either, but it's become a matter of self-preservation.

[ScreamingMeemie]

47. I am a Christian. Do you hate me?

I give my life to my husband, my children, my friends...and humanity. I am not always "good". But each day, when I get up, I try. I'm the person you chatted about the weather with in the grocery store line. I stopped to see if you needed me to call someone when your tire was flat. I treat others as I wish to be treated myself, but I also realize that I am, first and foremost, human. Hate what's been done to Christianity, but don't hate Real Christians. :hi:

[Name removed]

50. Deleted message

Message removed by moderator. Click here to review the message board rules.

[ScreamingMeemie]

52. Judge not...

Sorry, no arrogance here. Only what you perceive. This is who I am and how I define myself. I'm not going to get into it with you. So you can just move past my post. There is nothing there to fault me for.

[progmom]

58. Hey Tux

Where is the arogance in MrsGrumpy's post? Where did she say Christianity is the only religion? Where are you coming from???????

[Tux]

60. Bad day

Employers are now putting those fish symbols on businesses. More and more, the Bible Belt is excluding anyone that could even remotely not be Christian. Hell, I graduated from a MI college and can't get a job because I lived in MI. Many employers are saying that and slapping a fish symbol on the store window or whatnot.

[progmom]

64. I understand why that would frustrate you, I do.

It would me too, if I were in the same position.

But please go back and read what Mrs Grumpy wrote. It wasn't simple minded, it wasn't arrogant. It was full of love and humility. And for many Christians, that's what it's all about. It's not about being holier than other people, it's not about judging someone's worth based on what they believe....it's simply about trying to do the best you can for your fellow human beings.

I'm really sorry you're having a bad day. I hope tomorrow is better for you. :hug:

[Tux]

65. I try

I do. I even have baptist friend but hell, the rest make me so mad I could either breath fire or put an enraged Gohan's ki to shame (Dragonball Z reference). They do view us godless liberals with degrees out of state as inferior and try to keep us down. If it wasn't for my UU church, I'd run amok. All I ask for is a decent job.

[BeHereNow]

61. Mrs. G never said that Tux.

Not once in her post did she say anything about
Christianity being the only faith.
She simple said it was hers and described how she
personally walked the talk.
BHN

[Az]

62. Um Tux, a simple bit of advice

Include words like some, many, and various. Particularly when refering to behaviour patters of groups. Example.

Some Christians are arrogant.

Many Christians believe theirs is the absolute truth.

Various sects have more dogmatic positions than others.

[Bouncy Ball]

48. I'm a Christian.

I believe in non-violence, working for peace and fighting poverty. I believe the true measure of a person is how they treat others. I believe our entire purpose and mission on earth and in life is to love one another and make the world a better place for everyone.

I also believe in respecting all religions and belief systems, as long as they do no harm. I do not believe in pushing my beliefs on others or being nosy about other people's beliefs.

I believe in humility. "Rapture fundies" seem to believe Christianity is about power. I believe it's about love. Radical, huge, beautiful LOVE.

[Logansquare]

49. I hate these Jesus-stealers

These Christ-ransomers, these Godnappers. They're perverted, like child molesters who tell their victims they were the seductive ones. There is no greater hate than LIES.

[Dark]

51. Give in to your hate, young padawan. n/t

[Az]

54. They are out there

Unfortunately like liberals they have been silenced by a more organized and more regimented religious right. Because they embrace tolerance and diversity they do not push their own particular beliefs. In large part this renders them invisible to the general republic compared to their more vocal brethren.

I as an atheist have found many Christians ready to stand by me and move forward in this nation. Not lead by blind fanaticism. Instead they are open to reason and compassion. Real compassion born of a sense of connection to our common human condition.

I keep telling them they need to speak up or they will be lost to the uproar of the religious right. But they are in the same boat as all liberal, open minded, compassionate individuals. They do not want to run the risk of stepping on another's beliefs in championing their own beliefs.

There needs to be a new way for all. There needs to be dialog between the various positions. We need to talk things through. We need to each be able to stand up and represent our views without stepping on others views.

We are all born blind and screaming into this world and it is only with the help of each other that we make any progress.

[ScreamingMeemie]

63. That was so very wonderfully said Az.

I'm glad I know you.

[foreigncorrespondent]

56. Oh you bet...

...there are real Christians left. They are called The Religious Left.

All these religious zealots you see and hear so much about, are fundamentalists. They are not true Christians.

[babylonsister]

66. Can you be righteous in your heart?

I think I am. I don't have to have a higher power to feel like I'm a good person.

[Moderator]

67. Locking

This is famebait.