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texastoast Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Tue Mar-22-05 04:41 PM
Original message
Lack of DU Interest in Social Security Is Alarming
So many of the young people on this website are going to be adversely affected if shrubito's plan gets marketed. Yet, I have seen little interest in the posts that have made it here.

Here are some snippets from an article that prepared me well enough to take on my representative at a recent repuke-friendly Town Hall meeting. With the shrub doing his best to market private accounts (which may not necessarily be a bad thing if they could only truly be private), young people need to be steamrolling against his plan for many other reasons.

The plan Bush is proposing is very similar to the plan tried in Great Britain. In an interview with the BBC, one participant said of the plan, "We would have done better to have put our money under our mattress," citing the private account maintenance fees and attendant fluctuations in the market and a resulting overall 30% decrease in benefits.

Here are some excerpts from Allan Sloan's recent Newsweek article written in lay terms. For the full text, click on the link.

http://www.msnbc.msn.com/id/6920720/site/newsweek/

Key points under the Bush Plan (from the article above):

Bush is pretending Social Security's about to collapse and go broke, which isn't true. The Dems are telling you that it can continue as is for more than 30 years without a problem—and that's not true, either.

. . .

An average worker retiring in 2075, for instance, would get a benefit 46 percent below the current formula. Later cuts would be even deeper. The plan does this by using a benefit formula based on inflation rather than on wages, which are roughly 1 percent a year higher. **If you get a 20% raise one year, you SS contribution would be based on the current inflation rate, rather than your increased wages. This was already tried in Great Britain and failed.**

. . .

Shifting to private accounts, under Bush's plan, would lead to massive borrowing by the federal government, adding to our already huge deficits. Over the first 20 years, borrowings would total $4.5 trillion. Given that foreigners are financing almost all our budget deficit, we'd be hocking ourselves even more to lenders—such as the central banks of Japan and China—whose long-term interests may not be the same as ours.

. . .

You would own the account, sort of, but you wouldn't control it. And you'd have to fork over the 3 percent return—by taking a smaller benefit—when you cash in your account.

. . .

When it's retirement time, low-income people would likely have to convert most or all of their private account into an annuity to have enough money to live on, or to meet requirements that their guaranteed benefit plus annuity income would exceed certain levels.

. . .

Although stocks tend to rise over the long term, you'd have to cash in some or all of your retirement account to buy an annuity when you retire. That puts you at the mercy of events. Consider the following, produced by the Center on Budget and Policy Priorities. Say you retired in March of 2000, with a private account that held $100,000 of stock in an SP 500 Index fund. (Index funds match the performance of a benchmark; they don't try to beat the market.) Your inflation-adjusted annuity would have been $7,558 a year—about $630 a month—by the center's calculation. But if you had the same number of shares in your account and instead retired in October of 2002, your account would have had less than $60,000 in it. Your annuity: $3,352 a year, or $279 a month.

. . .

Understanding the complexities of this issue can seem daunting, but, hell, even I got somewhat of a grip on it.

A straightforward solution could be to raise the current payroll tax by less than 2 percentage points or cut benefits by 13 percent. Either would solve the problem through 2080. Similarly, if the limit on wages taxed for Social Security, currently $90,000, were lifted altogether, the system would be kept fully solvent until 2077, according to the Social Security Administration's chief actuary. (But what would the superearners say about that?)

My own personal solution? Give me more leeway with my 401(k). Now that is a real private account that I can take responsibility for.

And, my dear young DU'ers, I'm not the one who is going to get the short end of this stick, because I'm just too old.
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KitchenWitch Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Tue Mar-22-05 04:44 PM
Response to Original message
1. I am afraid there is too much noise out there to take anything seriously
Scott Peterson
Terri Schiavo
Michael Jackson
ad nauseum
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Blue_In_AK Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Tue Mar-22-05 04:55 PM
Response to Reply #1
11. All four op-ed pieces in our newspaper this morning were on
Schiavo -- Kathleen Parker, Molly Ivins, Richard Cohen, and Cal Thomas, breaking down along the usual lines. (At least our paper is "balanced.") Granted this is an important issue, but NO other opinions pieces?? Definitely overkill.
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ohio_liberal Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Tue Mar-22-05 04:44 PM
Response to Original message
2. I haven't forgotten
:kick:
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andyhappy Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Tue Mar-22-05 04:53 PM
Response to Reply #2
9. hey ohio_liberal
are you a member of bluehammer.org?

when is the site going to be up and running?
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ohio_liberal Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Tue Mar-22-05 04:56 PM
Response to Reply #9
14. I volunteered to moderate
Don't know much about the time frame/tech stuff. You can shoot an email here to find out more info: admin @ bluehammer.org
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andyhappy Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Tue Mar-22-05 05:06 PM
Response to Reply #14
23. I volunteered to do some graphic stuff
Edited on Tue Mar-22-05 05:09 PM by andyhappy
here is the little recruitment video I made for them once it is all rolling!

I hope it is a vehicle to get us all organized! The DU is great but our side lacks focus!!!

here is a link;
http://www.syntheticniche.com/bluehammer

keep fighting the good fight!

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Dutch Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Tue Mar-22-05 04:48 PM
Response to Original message
3. It's almost as if people have been distracted from real issues....
Wonder how that could have happened...
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Walt Starr Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Tue Mar-22-05 04:49 PM
Response to Original message
4. Not much to talk about while congress is on Easter Break
and Dipshit is in Texas talking to the cows.
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MsTryska Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Tue Mar-22-05 04:52 PM
Response to Reply #4
8. yeah that's pretty much it.
lately it's been all about Social Security around ehre, but now that the bamboozapalooza tour's been cancelled and every one his home doign their thing, and we've got teri to mull over, people are doing just that.
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Walt Starr Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Tue Mar-22-05 04:56 PM
Original message
It'll all come back with a vengeance after Easter
Count on it.
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MsTryska Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Tue Mar-22-05 04:59 PM
Response to Original message
19. as soon as someone does soemthing stupid,
we'll be all over it like a fly on sh*t. ;)
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WilliamPitt Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Tue Mar-22-05 04:50 PM
Response to Original message
5. This plan is DOA
Has been for a month, and they know it. They kept pushing it to distract us from fights over ANWR, the Gun Manufacturers Shield Law and the Bankruptcy Bill. Those said through with ease while we were all yelling about an SS bill that never had a chance.
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texastoast Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Tue Mar-22-05 05:21 PM
Response to Reply #5
25. I wouldn't call it DOA
I would say it has much more of an uphill battle now, and congresspeople are distancing themselves from his plan. (That was so sweet to watch in our Town Hall meeting--a whole lot of backpedaling going on).:7

And you are right--it was a distraction tool. However, ANWR is so not over yet. But * screwed the little guys on the bankruptcy bill. He's helping his credit industry buddies make more regular folks homeless.
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liveoaktx Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Tue Mar-22-05 04:51 PM
Response to Original message
6. I have a collection of videos to watch on Social Security
at SS Videos

Under the social security section. The ones on Social Security Policy are particularly good.
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texastoast Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Tue Mar-22-05 05:31 PM
Response to Reply #6
27. Thanks for the link!
I added it to my own collection.
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Chicago Democrat Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Tue Mar-22-05 04:52 PM
Response to Original message
7. Not lack of interest... Just certainty it is DOA and I frankly suspect
is basically a diversionary tactic to get through odious appointments and laws under the radar screen.

ie bankrupcy, ANWR drilling, Wolfowitz and Bolton.
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rodeodance Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Tue Mar-22-05 04:56 PM
Response to Reply #7
13. Bush WANTS his private accounts-and he will get them somehow
this is NOT over. Most likely there will some sort of 'compromise"-bipartison and bush will his accounts.
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andyhappy Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Tue Mar-22-05 04:54 PM
Response to Original message
10. I did an animation about SS
check it out...I am going to enter this puppy in moveon.orgs flash competition about SS

http://www.syntheticniche.com/ss/

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Chicago Democrat Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Tue Mar-22-05 04:58 PM
Response to Reply #10
17. That's GREAT! I want you to win!
YAY!!!!


You are so cool.
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Batgirl Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Tue Mar-22-05 05:02 PM
Response to Reply #10
21. nice! n't
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hermetic Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Tue Mar-22-05 05:05 PM
Response to Reply #10
22. Nice!
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texastoast Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Tue Mar-22-05 05:28 PM
Response to Reply #10
26. That was . . .
Completely excellent! Good luck!

:yourock:
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Pirate Smile Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Tue Mar-22-05 04:56 PM
Response to Original message
12. Damning Washington Post article on Bush's SS "plan" was at the
top of the Greatest and Home pages for a long time (it was in Saturday's paper). If you missed it, make sure you read the entire article - almost 75% earn less in Private Accounts.

Retirement Accounts Questioned
Paper Challenges Expected Benefits

By Jonathan Weisman
Washington Post Staff Writer
Saturday, March 19, 2005; Page E01

Nearly three-quarters of workers who opt for Social Security personal accounts under President Bush's "default" investment option are likely to earn less in benefits than those who stay with the traditional Social Security system, a prominent finance economist has concluded.

A new paper by Yale University economist Robert J. Shiller found that under Bush's default "life-cycle accounts," which shift assets from stocks to bonds over a worker's lifetime, nearly a third of workers would bring in less in benefits than if they remained in the traditional system. That analysis is based on historical rates of return in the United States. Using global rates of return, which Shiller says more closely track future conditions, life-cycle portfolios could be expected to fall short of the traditional system's returns 71 percent of the time.

Both the White House and the Social Security Administration have relied on historical returns in estimating the earnings of proposed personal investment accounts. Shiller used 91 computer simulations to analyze the past performance of stocks and bonds in a variety of portfolios. He measured the returns in 44-year increments, beginning in 1871, to approximate a worker's lifetime contributions to personal accounts.

The results "showed a disappointing outlook for investors in the personal accounts relative to the rhetoric of their promoters," concluded Shiller, a leading researcher in stock market volatility who gained fame in the late 1990s for his warnings of a stock market bubble.
http://www.washingtonpost.com/wp-dyn/articles/A48341-2005Mar18.html
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democracyindanger Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Tue Mar-22-05 04:56 PM
Response to Original message
15. Lack of discussion doesn't always mean lack of interest
SS privatization is dying on the vine. Not much to discuss about it. I have no doubt that the majority of DUers, like the majority of Americans, see privatization as the horrible idea in principle that it is.
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Donailin Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Tue Mar-22-05 04:56 PM
Response to Original message
16. Not only are DU'ers against privatization
but so are the majority of Americans.
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deadparrot Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Tue Mar-22-05 04:59 PM
Response to Original message
18. Nah, its been discussed quite a bit.
I know its hidden right now in the Schiavomania, but there have been numerous discussions about it in the past few months.
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guinivere Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Tue Mar-22-05 05:01 PM
Response to Original message
20. It's not that I'm not interested or have forgotten,
it has more to do with the stomping of your final rights issue at front and center. I also have a feeling that the fish weren't biting as far as their "plan" goes. They have retreated to regroup.
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cynatnite Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Tue Mar-22-05 05:38 PM
Response to Reply #20
29. From what I've seen, the repubs are realizing...
people are not for it. Any attempts they've made to get public support has failed.
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GumboYaYa Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Tue Mar-22-05 05:20 PM
Response to Original message
24. Give me a break....
DU was all over this issue when it was ripe. I and many others on here wrote and called our congresscritters and other congresscritters to keep them holding the line on SS.
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Undercover Owl Donating Member (621 posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Tue Mar-22-05 05:33 PM
Response to Original message
28. it's important.
SS has already been discussed quite a bit, but it is a very substantial issue.

(And, I need a break from "Terri"!!)
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