'there was no rain before Noah's flood'

[bobbieinok]

crops were watered from underground

statements from a univ section head

[slackmaster]

1. My GAWD - I read "there was no brain before Noah's flood"

Must be getting low on blood sugar.

[Ripley]

4. There was no brain before Noah's food.

Trust me putting slow in flood lugar.

[Az]

2. I've heard worse

I have been involved in many debates on this subject and the number of explanations for the flood would blow your mind.

[charlie]

8. Yeah, but from a Uni head?

Some of my favorite entertainments have been the bent assertions from Usenet legends like Brice Wellington and John Boatwright, but crap like this emanating from a college official is beyond dismaying.

[Az]

14. Hehe Boatwright

Ahhh memories of tangling with that nutjob. But no. I am refering to individuals that one would assume are much more informed on the subject.

[charlie]

3. What?

Who? What college? He/she's still on the payroll?

[Drifter]

5. Don't be silly ...

the great flood created the Grand Canyon. What more proof do you need.

Cheers
Drifter

[Dookus]

6. and people insist

I'm supposed to respect people like this.

Sorry, I do not.

[Walt Starr]

7. So what section of the university does he head?

Pseudoscience 101?

[unhappycamper]

9. actually, it's entirely possible

One school of thought is that the great flood of antiquity was caused near the end of an ice age. When big chuck of glacier broke away from the sheet covering Europe, the resulting flood created the Black Sea.

I forget which book it was, but I can narrow it down to two:
"Frozen Earth" or "The Two-mile Time Machine."

I also seem to recall some scientific expeditions within the last few years in the Black sea north of Turkey that found settlements under the water.

[GiovanniC]

12. Run That One By Me Again

[Tansy_Gold]

36. Black Sea, Noah's Flood, Bob Ballard, Nat'l Geographic

http://www.nationalgeographic.com/blacksea/


This is not really news, as the theory has been around for at least five years.

[GiovanniC]

47. The Black Sea Was Caused By a Global Flood That Marked The First

time the Earth ever experienced rain?

I guess I've just been way out of the loop.

[Tansy_Gold]

50. No, no, no, no, no.

I was just posting a link to the Black Sea theory as an explanation for the flood "myth."

I don't think there's any scientific evidence supporting a global flood, but there is scientific evidence supporting the notion that a local catastrophic flood in the region of the Black Sea led to a myth that became the Noah myth.

In that sense, I guess the Black Sea theory refutes the ice-sheet-into-the-ocean tsunami flood myth.

So it's a sort of "Never mind, I just happened to be sorting through a stack of National Geographics and remembered this" moment.

[Dookus]

13. you think it's entirely possible

that mankind lived for generations before it ever rained?

[unhappycamper]

15. no - just that big rains were not necessary for the flood

if you buy the glacier scenario

[Ripley]

16. So you think an iceburg hitting the ocean...

can cause the entire landmass of Earth to submerge?

[unhappycamper]

28. think of a sheet of ice 4-5 miles thick covering all of Europe,

Greece, and most of Turkey.

At the time, what is now the Back Sea may have been a populated valley. Sparsely populated, but populated. Suppose the much warmer Mediterranean Sea calved a chuck of the glacier off.

This is not a proven fact, but it's one of the theories on the great flood.

[Ripley]

31. I can understand a local affect from that...

but isn't Noah's Flood a global event?

I don't care how big a tsunami there was, it would not submerge all of Gaia.

[northzax]

49. right, but it doesn't actually have to be 'global'

on a planetary sense, it only has to wipe out everything that the people involved know of. I'm sure that for the people of Acer Province, the Christmas Tsunami of '04 was a global event. without any connection to the outside world, how would they know it didn't affect everyone?

obviously, there was no truly global flood. that's absurd, geologically and hydrologically. can't happen. But a massive regional flood? certainly. Which means the basis for the story can be true, all of a sudden, the world was deluged with water.

none of this, however, explains how Noah brought alond mosquitos but neglected triceratops.

[Az]

32. Its real simple to demonstrate that a global flood never occurred

Ice cores. Each season ice and snow deposit in the north and south polls. As the seasons provide a regular interval of temp change the density changes over the season. This creates a regularly changing layer of ice in the developing layers. We can literally count the years by counting the layers of ice and snow compressed in these. By taking cores of these deposits we can look back in time and draw conclusions about what happened in the past. We can look back over 150,000 years this way. And according these cores we have taken there is no evidence of the entire world ever being covered in water. It simply never happened.

[charlie]

34. Hah, not me baby

The notion of 3-mile tsunamis pulled up by Mars caroming around Earth is too awesome to resist. Bruckheimer-sized flooding! Velikovsky rocks!

Why settle for the prosaic when you can have the SPECTACULAR?

[Az]

19. Are you saying localized flood or global flood?

A glacier would not account for a global flood as suggested by the bible.

[Blue_In_AK]

44. The "world" was a pretty circumscribed place

to the writers of the Bible. A localized event would have seemed global. Hell, they didn't even know "global." The earth-is-round idea came up much later.

[Az]

48. Very much my point

The dead sea flood is a very likely source for numerous flood myths that spread through various systems. The glacier explanation is unwarranted in this case as the source of this particular localise flood has already been identified.

[Az]

17. They figured out that flood some time ago

It was a localised flood (a big one but still not global). It was caused by a partial colapse of a mountain range seperating the fresh water body from the sea. The resulting torrent of water wiped out a fair sized city and may have given rise to the story of Atlantis and perhaps the flood.

[FreedomAngel82]

24. Something I used to wonder

about the flood was similiar to that. Was it just the known world at that time or the whole world in general? Remember people back then didn't know this side of the world exisited and just their area in the middle east. So I used to always wonder about that. Now days after studying tons of history and all that I do think it was just the known world at that time. Not the whole world in general. I hope I'm not being confusing.

[atommom]

10. What university? And what section?

It's hard to believe a person who could achieve a PhD in anything would make such an asinine statement.

[Toots]

11. Have the believers in the Flood answered how different animals got to

different parts of the world. How did Australia get so many weird animals that are not found in other parts of the world? How did so many different forms of vegetation appear in so many different parts of the world. Millions and millions different types of vegetation. Just how big was that Ark anyway? How big is a cubit? Millions and millions of different types of vegetation and no such thing as evolution. :shrug: I must admit I can't figure how Noah managed that one. Kangaroos and Platypuses only found in Australia and no where else. :crazy:

[charlie]

18. And bugs and insects

Squintillions of bugs would take epochs to gather and would bury the ark under a crawly mountain.

And why did fish get off the hook?

[DulceDecorum]

20. After the mammals were safely deposited in Australia

they sinned.
And G-d did smite them.
With a pouch, he smote them.
And they carry that pouch upon them to this very day.

What else dyawannaknow?

[GiovanniC]

26. Australia Was a Prison Colony Even Way Back Then

For all the evil kangaroos and koalas and Steve Irwin.

"Verily, for I have stepped into the gaping jaws of this mighty crocodile! And I do say unto you: crikey and danger, danger!"

[FreedomAngel82]

27. Don't forget the different types of people

that are now out. Black, white, asian, chinese, etc. Where did they all come from?

[Az]

29. A list of problems (minor list)

What did the carnivores eat after they got off the boat? Any critter they ate would effectively wipe out a species.

What did the vegetarians eat after they got off the boat? After a year underwater there would be no vegetation.

Where did the water come from? There simply is not enough water on the planet to cover it to the depth claimed.

Where did the water go? see above

How did the ark survive the rainfall? Do the math. According to the bible the rain covered the earth to the very tip of the tallest mountain. Do the math and project the rate of fall necissary to cover the earth to the depth of the tallest mountain in 40 days and nights. The pressure from such a rate of rainfall would crush anything including the ark.

What happened to the fish? Fish live in very defined ecosystems. The flood would have destroyed the salinity content of both fresh water and salt water environments.

How did the animals get to their final locations? Imagine a three toed sloth making the journey from My Ararat to South America. They would still be making the journey today.

How did they get all the criters on the ark? The classic question. The beetles alone would have filled the ark. There are over 350,000 species of beetles. And then there are the worms.

There are more questions of course. But these are some of the more interesting ones that have generated the most amazing explanations from believers.

[Stirk]

33. They only had to gather one type of beetle. The others all

evolved after-

No- wait! I'll get back to you.

[RaleighNCDUer]

42. LOL!

[Az]

45. That is an actual argument

For those that believe in the ark the argument is often made that TYPES of various species were saved. Not every species. Just the base types. And after landing a limited form of evolution within types created the diversity we have today.

[unhappycamper]

21. here's an interesting observation

As scientists continue to expand our knowledge of this third rock from the sun, we are finding hints in our history that support catastrophic events from time to time.

The Black Sea being created by a chunk of glacier breaking away from the European ice sheet is an example. Do you suppose the people of that time would have remembered that event and passed it on through stories to the tribe? And that those stories would be embellished over time? And perhaps even written down somewhere?

I don't know that this is true, but I can't be sure it's not.

[LibertyLover]

37. Black sea flood

That's the theory - that a large flood, localized to the Black Sea area which submerged villages which were located on the then shore line, was so traumatic that it engendered legends which eventually got written down as Noah's story, Utnapishtam's story, etc. The flooding was purely localized, and I believe dating to around 9000 BCE, but if you were a human who lived through it you would probably think that the "whole" world had flooded. It's a matter of perspective. It was Ballard (of Titanic fame) and the National Geographic who did some underwater research a few years back in the Black Sea, that found several areas of human habitation (they found pottery and artifacts) that had all been flooded at the same time, roughly 9,000 BCE and postulated the flood which caused it was the origin of the Noah story. It's as good an explanation as any.

[Az]

38. Mentioned above

The flood was caused by a catostrophic collapse of a mountain range seperating the fresh water body from the sea. The resulting flood created the top layer of salt water over the lower layer of fresh water.

[Walt Starr]

46. That's how mythology happens

And why Babylonian myths became a basis for Judaic mythology.

[Ezlivin]

22. And there's been no sense after the flood

Look, it's easy. If you have a group of people who will believe fantastic fairy tales, then you can make them do virtually anything.

Rove's not a genius; he just harnessed the power he witnessed in the fundamentalist churches.

[AlienGirl]

23. My high-school Physical Science teacher taught his classes that

[On the Road]

25. Would it be Bob Jones University?

[meisje]

30. "I had no brain after that fat green bud"

[seg4527]

35. some people say the earth was created with fossils already inside it

if you want crazy.

[phatkatt]

39. I was told that very thing in a fundy church I used to belong to.

There is some verse in pre-flood Genesis mentioning mist or water bubbling up or something. Of course that was when the Earth was young back 500 years ago or so.:eyes:

[Az]

40. I ran into one theory

That stated there was this massive vapor cloud that hung above the earth. It created conditions which stopped aging thus allowing people to live for the hundreds of years as suggested in the bible. There was no rain till the flood. After the flood the vapor cloud allowed radiation in and sped up the aging process.

Of course none of this has any scientific backing.

[RPM]

41. No shit - that's cuz there was no flood

:eyes:

[Toots]

51. I believe there may well have been a flood of some sort

The ancient 'tablets of Ur' have in them a story called the Epic of Gilgamesh (written long before the bible) and it is about a flood and is very similar to the Noah story. Also there is evidence of a salt deposit line at about two hundred and fifty foot level on the Pyramid of Cheops. funny thing about that pyramid. It has air vents going into each large chamber that exit the pyramid at about the three hundred foot level. Why would these people want to pipe air into a tomb. They were very much into preserving the body and they knew enough to know that exposure to air increases decomposition. I believe the pyramids were built for shelter instead of burial chamber especially since no body has ever been found in one. In the kings chamber over five hundred vessels (empty) that had been filled with grains and corn. It was said they were there to help the Pharaoh through the afterlife but what happened to the grain. Locals stole it? why didn't they take the whole jar instead of just the grain? I am sure the flood could not possibly have covered the entire world but completely around the Mediterranean Basin anyway.

[BigMcLargehuge]

43. and so the opiate of the masses demonstrates its cerebrum destroying

affects yet again.