Why don't people treat Mrs. (Terri) Schiavo with respect?

[northzax]

on this or any other board?

I was always brought up to use Mrs. in relation to a married woman, older than I, who I did not know. She is not a little girl, she is an adult human being. Call her by her name: MRS. Schiavo.

Unless, of course, you know her. then call her "terri", by all means.

thank you.

[Divameow77]

1. Do you always refer to people you don't know like that?

Mr. Moore, Mrs. Pitt, Mr. Connery.......?

[northzax]

6. pretty much

when I address them. (and I believe that's Ms. Aniston :)) I like to follow the NYTimes style guide, Mr. or Ms. in the first reference and then the last name in the following, unless you need the honorific to determine which person you are talking about.

I don't do it, in many cases, for people that I do not respect, who have earned nicknames or diminutives by their behaviour or language (chimpy, rummy, etc.) Mrs. Schiavo has done nothing to earn my disrespect. And people use first names as diminutives, her parents want you to see her, not as an adult and a wife, but as their child. using the title "Mrs." conveys the reality that she is legally married, with all the rights and responsibilities that this entails.

[Divameow77]

9. Actually she legally changed her last name

to Pitt, drivers license and all, until they get divorced that is :)

[northzax]

14. didn't actually know that

however, she uses "aniston" as her name for performances. So that's what I'd use.

if I ever had to. :)

[sniffa]

2. um

kind of a weird thing you harped on there.

[northzax]

13. words matter

language matters.

we use last names for adults (Sarbanes-Oxley) but first names for Children (Amber alerts, Megan's law) using the name "Terri" instead of Ms. or Mrs. Schiavo implies she is a child and therefore needs to be defended, by her parents, against monsters.

[sniffa]

18. i don't agree

if anything, caLLing her 'terri' humanizes her - which is why she's caLLed terri.

[LuminousX]

32. This is my opinion as well

By referring to her as Terri (as in Terri's Law) we aren't forgetting that this is a person, a human being, whose suffering is being crassly used for political gain.

[mondo joe]

3. Well I wasn't brought up in the civil war era

And no one ever asked me to call them Mrs Anything.

[northzax]

11. do you call your Dentist "Steve"?

or Dr. Smith?

Why would you immediately give more respect to him/her than to a woman you've never met in Florida?

people shouldn't have to ask you to use honorifics. That should be expected. They should ask you to use first names, if they want.

[mondo joe]

15. Why should honorifics be expected? Because you say so?

I don't expect them of any of the kids in my neighborhood.

[alcibiades_mystery]

17. I believe the previous poster meant the "Civil Rights" era

My wife does not want to be called "MRS. alcibiades_mystery." In fact, she corrects people who say that. She considers it arcane and prefers Ms. alcibiades_mystery. Oh well.

I do agree that the use of the first name is far too familiar (and often belittling), and you'll notice that it happens much more often with women than with men (Teresa, for example).

[oddmanout]

4. Mrs. Shiavo is dead...

Mrs. Shiavo has been dead for 15 years. Let her rest.





:dem:

[Frances]

5. When I was young ( a long time ago)

married women were not known by their own names. They simply added a Mrs. before their husband's name so that they became an appendage to their husband.

I don't know when it happened, but gradually my women friends began to prefer to be known by their own names.

Now when I receive letters from my female friends, their return address labels usually give their first name and their last name with no Mrs., Ms., or Miss. So when I write back, I address their letters that way.

I think it's an identity thing. Even women my age seem to prefer to be known as people in their own right rather than as an appendage to their husbands.

[northzax]

8. so use Ms., if you want

that's fine. I don't see it as an 'apendage' issue, after all she did take the name 'schiavo' as her legal name.

think about it. When you write a letter to someone, or call someone, you don't know, and want to get something from, do you say "Hi Bob, how are you?" or "Hi Mr. Smith" and wait to be told to sue 'Bob'

i still call my girlfriend's parents Mr. and Mrs. because they haven't told me differntly. her brother's girlfriend uses first names, and thinks it strange I don't. As soon as they say "call me bob" I will.

Antiquated, or a function of growing up in Europe?

[Hand]

10. Yeah, that was truly bizarre.

I glanced at the society page in a medium-sized town newspaper once in the early 1970s. The caption on a photo read like: "Left to right, Mrs. Harold Smith, Mrs. Arthur Blahblah, Mrs. John Yaddayadda, Mrs. Martin Repuke..." etc. Weird as hell; not one vestige of their given names appeared in print.

I couldn't help wondering, "What the hell do you call them? John? Harold? Arthur?" Strange days indeed. A real :wtf: moment.

[Horse with no Name]

7. Actually I think you have a point

Because the more we say "MRS. Schiavo", the more we remind people that she is Michael's wife.
Notice we aren't calling her "MRS. Schindler".
This is a good point in order to recognize the legal guardianship while remaining respectful.

[sonicx]

12. i do it as a shortcut. i call the husband 'husband.'

[ScreamingMeemie]

16. Why don't you quit judging? My daughter will remain a girl to me whether

she is 15 or 51. Especially in a case where a person is so twisted by grief they cannot see that the girl (I'll continue to say it...whether you like it or not) is no longer there.

I find it interesting that you chose to post another thread instead of responding to my reply in the other thread.

[northzax]

21. this was actually posted before I replied to your post

in the other thread :) I haven't been back there to respond yet.

I'm not saying that her parents shouldn't call her whatever they always have. They're her parents. We have allowed the wingnuts to win the battle of words so many times, and words define the playing field for so many of these debates. ON EDIT: I'm also not saying that Mr. and Mrs. Schindler are anything but grieving parents. They do keep strange company, however.

Mr. and Mrs. Schindler see their daughter as a little girl. I'm sure my parents still see me that way (I'm the age Shiavo was at the time of her accident) and that is proper. But they want US to see her as their little girl as well, instead of as an adult and wife. If she's a child, her parents have control, not her husband.

you don't think the first names of men and women are used differently? watch a golf tournament. the commentators will refer to most players (male) by their last names (except people like Tiger Woods, who's names are icons) then watch a women's tournament. the players are referred to by first names.

same thing in tennis, basketball, soccer. think it's a coincidence?

[ScreamingMeemie]

23. As a mom, I see their point and can see the girl she once might have

been. There is nothing wrong or undignified about that.

In my neck of the woods. Brett is Brett (Favre) Stevie is Stevie (Yzerman) etc....

I think eveyone's getting a little too worked up. I need to walk away from it. :hi:

[northzax]

27. well sure, for Stevie,

but they are people who have chosen to become public figures (not to mention athletes) do you refer to your governor as Granholm or Jenny?

sorry, I play with linguistics a bit. I certainly never meant to judge or attack you, you simply happened to be the post I replied to. :hi:

[ScreamingMeemie]

28. As a matter of fact, most call her Jennifer around here.

:hi:

That's okay. I'm on the offensive this morning. I never hold grudges or get too upset. At least I try not to.

[northzax]

29. yeah, well I do...so watch your back...

sorry, Tom Delay took over my keyboard for a moment there. all better now!

:)

[ScreamingMeemie]

30. ROFL. Mom? Is that you?

hehehehehe...

Me own Mum's a diehard grudge holder. She hasn't spoken to me in 2 months. ;)

[northzax]

33. well maybe if you called every now and then

and would it hurt you to come home for easter dinner? and some flowers? would that be so damn hard for the woman who brought you into this world and sacrificed everything so that you could have a good life? huh? you'll miss me when I'm dead, you know!

[crispini]

19. You're right, and this is a framing issue, too.

Referring to her as Ms. or Mrs. Schiavo reminds people of the marriage, it makes her more adult. "Terri" is informal and casual and it makes people think of the parent/child relationship instead.

[Texasgal]

20. OH GOOD GOD!

With all that is swirling around this case, this is your GRIPE?

Damn... I worry about humanity sometimes... I really do. *shakes head*

edit: spelling

[ProfessorGAC]

22. I Think You Miss His Point

Suddenly, she's Terri! The idea is to defuse the RW attempt to remove this married woman's last name ignored. The defense of marriage people are conflicted about this, but if they make the name Schiavo go away, the conflict goes away.

The OP is suggesting that WE be the ones who maintain the connection.

You worry about humanity. I worry about people's ability to grasp subtlety.
The Professor

[Texasgal]

25. Maybe I didn't "grasp" the subtlety

because I am way more concerned about the deeper ramifications of this case that could affect us all.

Not only that.... I haven't seen a over amount of threads just the name "Terri" Many of them refer to her has just "schivo"

Still failing to see the point of this, I mean is DU gonna change the outcome of this case by simply referring to her as "Mrs. Schaivo"?

Give me a break!

[ProfessorGAC]

31. Still Missing The Point

The RW is TRYING to frame the issue by getting rid of her last name in their references. We cannot allow that to happen, since the ramifications you describe are contingent about the way the public reacts to the situation.

They are not mutually exclusive. They are connected inextricably. You don't have to like it, but they are one and the same. I don't have to like it either, but that doesn't change anything.

Your original post made it clear that you thought the OP was making a tempest in the teapot. I think the OP has identified a critical element in making the case about the right of people to die with dignity and the right of married people to transfer those decisions to their spouse. Making her last name no longer relevant to the public will help people miss the point, and make her loathesome parents more acceptable.
The Professor

[seabeyond]

24. how weird, i go by julie when talking ot adults, and you know

they even respect me, when they talk to me. julie isnt indicitive of respect, from what i have found.

[Walt Starr]

26. This is actually a very good point

Especially when taken in light of the meme coming out of the radical cleric camp referring to her as Terri Schindler-Shiavo.

[Name removed]

34. Deleted message

Message removed by moderator. Click here to review the message board rules.

[Inland]

35. Avoiding given names tough when speaking of a family dispute.

Get confused between all the Mrs. and Mr.s--unless you do a lot of typing, it seems like a Russian novel.