Terry Schiavo is a loser for us

[gnofg]

The repubs have a real pulse on what drives us in the deepest areas of the nations mind(unfortunately they have proved it in the last election) Many of the people at DU are so definitive on this issue but this one is in the gray area. I have seen tons of people calling the parents terrible names. I personally think that the repubs are absolutely using this for political gain and they make me puke. However Michael Schiavo's argumensts to me don't ring true. He has moved on and has another family. This is what people see. Michael Schaivo is compromised on this issue. He compromised himself. This is a loser for us. Sometimes you can win the battle and lose the war.

[Gman]

1. Her parents would amputate all her limbs

if that's what it took to keep her alive. Do you think that's a real winner for the GOP?

[Tandalayo_Scheisskopf]

6. Lovely thought.

Lovely people, no doubt.

[Cooley Hurd]

2. Funny how every single poll on this issue doesn't support your thesis...

...since they all show overwhelming support for Terri's right to die with dignity.

Sorry...

[vi5]

3. Um...I don't often look to polls but the fact is...

Every single solitary poll done by every range of organizations and news outfits (INCLUDING Fox News) shows that an overwhelming majority (in the range of 70-80% in most polls) of people think the husband has the right to make this decision and also that they would want the same thing done in this situation.

No, the parents should not be called names, but Dems on this board are right on their outrage at the republican actions on this issue and our outrage is in the majority not the minority.

[gnofg]

18. I agree

The repubs make me puke on this. It is all for political gain. I also think that no court will overrule the state court and she will pass. I jsut think over the long haul we lose on this.

[trapper914]

4. Just because...

...the Republicans use this as a political issue, doesn't mean we should.

This is a family matter...not a left vs. right case. I know you've seen the polls. They overwhelming support Michael in this case. Finally, the people realize that every controversial issue isn't decided by one's voter registration card.

[Tandalayo_Scheisskopf]

5. Yo.

Check the polling on this issue. This is a "turd in the punchbowl" moment for the repukes. They have decloaked their real agenda and the really vast majority of people ain't buyin'.

In spite of the news blatherings. Frankly, the news spin seems to be running exactly counter to the polling data and that tells me the news organizations are getting astroturfed by Brent Bozell and Company.

[Tesla]

7. This isn't about us.....

You don't know the hell that man may have experienced through all this.

He is only human.

I don't understand why he didn't seek a dicvorce and give rights to her parents 10 years ago!

[spooky3]

17. Could it be because he loved his wife and was trying to do the right thing

Maybe he thought it was his duty to ensure that her wishes were carried out, and if he divorced her, her parents would do anything but that.

I have heard a lot of BS in the media about his alleged money motivations, but they fail to report (a) the above argument (b) that the money is already gone, spent on lawyers and Terri's medical care and (c) no amount of money would compensate for the 15 years of hell he has endured.

[Demit]

23. Perhaps because of his loyalty to his wife & that he cared about her?

Having been her husband he knew more about how she felt than did anyone? Like most married couples, they'd confided in each other about their feelings toward their parents?

I have to assume you're saying you would have thought long and hard about what to do in the same situation, and come to the conclusion to abandon your wife through divorce. The fact that he didn't I would say speaks to his ethics.

[Catch22Dem]

8. I've got news for my wife

If she became a vegetable, I would have moved on after 15 years too.

[spooky3]

9. This is NOT a Dem issue--loser or winner--at all. The Dems were not

the party to turn this into something that might yield political gain. It is the Rethugs who are trying to make political hay out of it. The Dems are simply trying to do what they have to in response. They are trying to do what is right.

[bowens43]

10. I guess you haven't been paying attention.

The country OVERWHELMINGLY supports the husband in this issue and the country OVERWHELMINGLY opposes the actions of both congress and the president.

But keep spouting DeLay's talking points if it makes you feel better

[seabeyond]

11. i am going to say this slowly teri isnt democrats issue

teri is the repug game. they are playing a political game. the dems are not an adversary or a player in the game. it is all the right wings pathetic circus. go after the repugs. they are the ones that are being sick, they are the ones that created this mess, that took power from the state, they interfered in private life, and huge personal decision making, that ignored court finding.

teri isnt about the democrats

teri is an example of the digusting abuse of the republican party

why do repugs always get away with their pathetic power grab, to easily swing finger back at democrats

youa re being an enabler for the republican party. playing their game

[mrbill]

12. cheese burger, cheesburger

n/t

[Riding this Donkey]

13. The problem here is that people want to hold Terri to her marriage

vows, but they don't feel the need to have Michael be held to his.

In my mind, he is compromised.

He is her husband yet he has another woman and has children with her.

He has not followed his vows.

But, we all want Terri to be held to hers. She "chose" him.....give me a break.

He has moved on, let terri move on as well.

[qazplm]

41. if he was so compromised

he would have taken the million dollars to not remove the tube, divorced her and moved on a LONG time ago.

Seriously, this has nothing to do with Terri being held on to her "vows" and by the way, you have NO clue what Terri would have wanted for her husband in this case, were I marred, I would absolutely want my wife to move on after 15 years and find happiness, and were I to want to definitely be let go, I would absolutely want her to also stick by me long enough to see that happen.

Don't bring your notion of "vows" into a relationship you have no part in.

[Riding this Donkey]

43. I wasn't bringing in vows, really.....it is being used as a way to justify

his actions.

And I'm sorry, there is no way around it, he is an adulterer.

like it or not.

[mondo joe]

56. Both Terri & Michael are bound by their marriage CONTRACT

Simple legal matter.

[LynneSin]

14. Wait, 70% of the American public disapprove how repukes are handling this.

..so how is this a loser for us? Enlighten me because I'm not seeing it at all

:shrug:

[Junkdrawer]

35. Me neither (and they announced 70% after they got beat 92 to 8 online) ..

The Repukes jumped the shark to placate their base. Now, their spinning their asses off.

[ET Awful]

39. Agreed completely Lynne.

Firstly, 70% of the public disapproves of the whole fiasco and thinks that Michael should be allowed to make the decision.

Second, no Democrat has made an issue of this anywhere. In fact, the only ones making it a political issue are Republicans. Nowhere is there a prominent Democrat jumping up and down in front of cameras talking about this. Only Republicans are highlighting the issue. Only Republicans are making it an issue in the first place.

It's not a loser for us in any way. It's not even a battle for us. It's a private issue that most people in this country believe should have been left a private issue.

[Wright Patman]

15. Single-issue politics

is the key here. While a general poll of disinterested observers (who do not know what a scoundrel the 'husband' is, not that that should matter in a generic question on the issue) registers support for the husband, most of those who support him do not vote based on that single issue.

EVERYONE on Schiavo's side is motivated to vote by single issues such as abortion, euthanasia, gay marriage, etc. And this will probably be a net winner for the GOP because it will motivate another couple of thousand pastors to continuallly declare to their sheep that Democrats demonic over the next couple of election cycles using this case and the fact that Clinton appointed the judge who refused to reinsert the feeding tube as proof.

[izzie]

16. The family of these people are the ones who are lost.

No one in that family should be treating that women like this.

[ClintonTyree]

19. When over 70% of Americans agree she should be.........................

allowed to die, and the rabid right are the only ones saying "No," I think we're pretty much on the correct side of the argument.
The Slugs are the ones that are going to lose credibility on this issue, not us.
Michael Shiavo is not the issue here. Terri is. Does she have the right to end a life of being in a a vegetative state? That's what this really boils down to.
The Slugs have revealed their hypocrisy and willingness to politicize it, the Dems more or less support her right to die with dignity.

[ugarte]

20. Yes, from a political standpoint it's better for Dems that she stay alive

since the public sides with us vs. the Republicans on this issue. The difference is that (some) Democrats have principles and want to do what is right.

So you're right, When Terri dies, the Republicans will blame Democrats and try to make political capital.

[still_one]

IT IS NOT A POLITICAL ISSUE, PERIOD

it is between her parents, her husband, her doctors, and the courts

[adwon]

21. I'll disagree

Unfortunately, I bring only anecdotal evidence.

For all the excitement over the current case, I know only one person who would not choose to die in this type of situation. This is after 15 years or so of hearing about this issue. In addition, my experience is limited to the south, that hotbed of pro-life crusaders. I don't think this issue is a loser at all. This is one of those issues that positively polarizes the debate between actual liberty and paying lip service while degrading it.

[bridgit]

28. my sense is that you have it right...

faux liberty is not a winner for neo-cons who are in this case breathtakingly seen for what they are truly: neo-ghouls...

if ever the case be made, as is their standard retort, to 'get over it & move on' it is now imo

[adwon]

38. The beauty of it

This issue makes it personal for most people. One can rationalize Guantanamo because they're terrorists (though I think detention was justifiable for about the first year, after that amount of time, it has to be apparent who to try and who to ship home). Bankruptcy can be rationalized as irresponsibility. This? This is overstretch for them.

[DIKB]

22. The left isn't making this an issue.

If you don't fight, how can you win or lose ?

As it was said last night, "Why get in the way of a perfectly good trainwreck ?"

The right is beating their drums, and they are so far from the pulse of the public. EVERY poll I see says the opposite of what these people support, right wing websites ESPECIALLY the libertarian-conservative ones are against this.

So . . .

um . . .

WHERE THE EVER LOVING FUCK ARE YOU GETTING THE IDEA THAT THIS IS A LOSS ?!?!?!?!










not making accusations, but something smells freepy.

[gnofg]

42. You think I am a freeper

See if anyone doesn't step into the liberal line they are a freeper. This is why it is a loser. It makes us look strident. As I stated I am long term democrat that grew up in the sixties and am a minority. My father was not allowes to swin=m in the public pools in St. Louis in the 30's. I have never voted for a repub. Just keep that attitude and we will lose more. I take it you are pretty young.(under 30)

[Riding this Donkey]

46. Don't let it get to you, I have been accused probably 50 times of

being a freep, but I love DU and they aren't gonna push me away because we disagree on this one issue. I love the democratic party way too much for that. There is no reason I would ever vote for a republican.......not even this one, even given my strong opinions on it.

[maxrandb]

53. Strident!??

Are you kidding? Dems look "strident"?? All 48 out of 435 House Members that voted against this bill. All "ZERO" Senators who challenged unanimous consent?

I did not see one single Democrat standing up there saying "we should let Terri die, or kill her". What they were bravely saying is that the Congress has no businees intervening in this case, and that this woman should not be used as a political football.

If that is a losing argument, then I guess I'll lose along with them.

The American people seem to realize that the Republicans don't give a rats-ass about Terri Schiavo. They are using this to try to make political points and it is not working.

The backlash against this "activist Congress" may be just what we need to break their hold on power.

The American people are smart enough to know that Congress should stay the hell out of our private lives.

[Bridget Burke]

24. Essentially, this is not a political matter.

Even though the Republicans have made it so. And most of the American people are becoming disgusted with them.

[Avalux]

25. Who are the tons of people calling her parents terrible names?

And, why are you using RW talking points to describe Michael Schiavo? Just wondering.

[Riding this Donkey]

29. I have seen Terri's father being accused of MOLESTATION because

she allegedly had bulimia.

That is a fact, right here on DU!

I have heard them called liars.

But alas, most, finally coming around that this isn't a political issue as I have been saying all along.

This is not a political issue to be used to further causes on either side.

It is disgusting and calling her parents the names I have seen them called on this board is disgusting to me as well.

[koopie57]

52. I'm curious if anyone saw

Hannity last night (I don't normally watch, but was channel surfing and stopped, just this once, really!!!) but there was an older guy on there (who I thought was her dad) talking about the night she had her trauma. He more than implied that Michael had something to do with it and criminal charges. I didn't want to say anything cuz I really didn't listen to much of it, but since your brought up this issue, I was curious if anyone else heard what I did.

[mondo joe]

57. No you didn't. You read that I wouldn't be surprised if her father

was found to have molested her.

Please get the facts straight.

[gnofg]

33. Are you

implying that I am a republican. Let's see I am from a union family and I am a minority. I have never voted for a republican. I worked for McGovern and he was the first presidential candidate I voted for(Iwas 21) I never voted for a winning president until Clinton. I worked for Kerry and donated alot of money. If someone doesn't agree with you then they are wrong. Keep this up and we lose even worse.

This is a very complex issue. The earlier post saying that this is a motivator for them is right. Once people see that Michael is compromised we become the loser.

[Avalux]

36. I didn't say you were wrong -

just asked a couple of questions. And yes, it is a very complex issue - so complex that NONE of us have the right to surmise the relationship between Michael and Terri Schiavo.

[gnofg]

45. I see

you use the peace sign. What is the real meaning of that sign?

[katinmn]

26. I put myself in Terry Schiavo's place.

I would never want my body nor my privacy paraded the way hers has been.

I think most people would not want to be remembered this way or used as a political symbol.

Jeb Bush and Tom DeLay had no right to overstep the legal decision that was Michael Schiavo's right.

[Mr.Green93]

27. It's a winner

The public is on our side and the Federal Judge has emasculated the congress. You have seen the high water mark of Republican power. It is over for them. We have the Judges and the public on our side from now on.

[Riding this Donkey]

30. Yeah, just start using it to further Democartic agendas and see

how far it will get you.

No where!

Let this play out in the court of public opinion, it has fallen our way anyhow. But start framing it in with abortion, gay marriage and all of the support will be thrown out the window in a matter of time.

We will be seen as no better than them.

Let them hang themselves.

My god, will we ever learn. This is not a political issue and this is why the polls are the way they are. They don't see it a democrat issue, they see it as a republican issue, but go ahead, and make it a democratic issue anyhow. It will get the party nowhere!

On edit: even if the dems use is for the right to die issue only and become vocal about it in that way, the repugs will bring twist and spin it t'il the end. Let it be about them, not us!

[saracat]

31. These are RW talking points. There is NO evidence to support your

assertions and plenty to the contrary. America is waking up. This is a struggle between the courts and Congress. Scalia and Renquist both has prior rulings in similar cases and have indicated no willingness to reverse themselves. The Courts are NOT going to be shoved around as the Repugs want to do. And the vast majority of Republicans are against this as well.And the Judge is a REPUBLICAN!

[Mend]

32. So what....we are saying the right thing.

We are demanding that our Democratic politicians stop being scared and do right. The least we can do is the same thing. Let Terri go. We can't compromise with the truth and I don't give a damn what the fundies and media think and rant about.

[SheepyMcSheepster]

34. 19 or so different judges that have heard the case disagree with you

but hey, it's just the judicial branch of our government. it's not like it is one of the pillars of our democracy.

:shrug:

[CTyankee]

37. Isn't it about time for another terror alert?

Or maybe yet another gay cartoon character? Is that what usually happens when republicans get their ass in a crack? Only this time, they're stuck for awhile.

However, I do think they will morph this thing into the "activist federal judge" thing (I already saw an LTE along that very line in this morning's paper). I am sure they are already preparing the script.

[Name removed]

40. Deleted message

Message removed by moderator. Click here to review the message board rules.

[DemonFighterLives]

44. Stupid for the repukes to get into this

Big Ed Schulz yesterday said there was a memo to the pubs stating that the Schiavo case would be a winner for them. That is why delay and the gang beat the drums on this issue. The talking points are that the dems are the party of death etc.
It'll backfire on them. Amazing that the demonstrations against the war and Delay's ethics violations didn't make the news.

[depakid]

47. That was a sad post

Whatever happened to "respect for the rule of law." and the integrity of the Constitution?

When did those become losing issues?

Unfrotunately, there are too many sell out Dems who go along with the shallow analysis- and they hurt the party (and themselves) in the long run.

[Name removed]

48. Deleted message

Message removed by moderator. Click here to review the message board rules.

[gnofg]

50. it

kills me that I am accused of being a troll. I am as democratic as anyone. As I ststed earlier I am from a union family. My father negotiated for the lonshoremen in 1968 in Yonkers, NY. I am from a blue state. I also stated that the courts will not overrule this. We unfortunately don't get it sometimes and we all have to admit that the repubs are good strategists.

[Name removed]

58. Deleted message

Message removed by moderator. Click here to review the message board rules.

[0007]

49. "Us? Don't include me in your right wing rhetoric.

CNN Poll

Who would you want to make the decision about pulling the plug if you were in a vegetative state?

Spouse
78%
101373 votes

Parent
14%
18715 votes

Somebody else
7%
9572 votes

Total: 129660 votes

[gollygee]

51. The court decided T.S.'s fate after hearing evidence from multiple people

in fact several courts all ruled the same way. They know more than you or I know. They are impartial, unlike M.S. or her parents. I base my opinion of this case on those courts and they work they have done.

It's been 15 years. Why are you suprised M.S. has met someone else in that long a period of time? If I were in T.S.'s position, I would hope that my husband would be able to find another person to love and not be alone.

[Media_Lies_Daily]

54. The fact is, your post has very little to do with reality.

[Walt Starr]

55. Bullshit, 70% of the American public think this was way over the line

This one ends up being a dog for the Republicans and will continue to be one.

Republicans want to force people to take medical treatement against their will.