Russia thinks al-Qaeda is a figment of Bush's imagination

[NNN0LHI]

http://www.mosnews.com/news/2005/03/21/shebarsh.shtml

U.S. Using Anti-Terror War to Gain World Oil Reserves — Soviet Intelligence Chief

On the pretext of fighting international terrorism the United States is trying to establish control over the world’s richest oil reserves, Leonid Shebarshin, ex-chief of the Soviet Foreign Intelligence Service, who heads the Russian National Economic Security Service consulting company, said in an interview for the Vremya Novostei newspaper.

Using the anti-terrorist cause as a cover the United States has occupied Afghanistan, Iraq and will soon move to impose their “democratic order” on the Greater Middle East, Shebarshin said. “The U.S. has usurped the right to attack any part of the globe on the pretext of fighting the terrorist threat,” Shebarshin said.

Referring to his meeting with an unnamed al-Qaeda expert at the Rand Corporation, a nonprofit research organization in the U.S., Shebarshin said: “We have agreed that {al-Qaeda} is not a group but a notion.”

“The fight against that all-mighty ubiquitous myth deliberately linked to Islam is of great advantage for the Americans as it targets the oil-rich Muslim regions,” Shebarshin emphasized.

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[Robbien]

1. Riverbend and Raed had no idea who they were either

never heard of them until the corporate media started mentioning them.

[judy]

2. So do the authors of

"The Power of Nightmares"
Great documentary!

[Al-CIAda]

21. stream/download -The Power of Nightmares

The Power of Nightmares - Part I
Baby It’s Cold Outside”
In the past our politicians offered us dreams of a better world. Now they promise to protect us from nightmares.
The most frightening of these is the threat of an international terror network. But just as the dreams were not true, neither are these nightmares.
This is a must watch documentary - Broadcast BBC 2 10/20/04 - Written and Produced by Adam Curtis
http://www.informationclearinghouse.info/video1037.htm

-----

The Power of Nightmares Part II
Part II: The Phantom Victory
http://www.informationclearinghouse.info/video1038.htm

----
And if you only had time to watch one, choose the last-

The Power of Nightmares - Part III
The Shadows In The Cave
The Power of Nightmares assesses whether the threat from a hidden and organised terrorist network is an illusion. In the concluding part of the series, the programme explains how the illusion was created and who benefits from it.
http://www.informationclearinghouse.info/video1040.htm

==========OR=====
BBC series – The Power of Nightmares
TV documentary that explores how the idea that we are threatened by a hidden and organised terrorist network is an illusion

part 1
baby it's cold outside
real player
http://www.informationclearinghouse.info/video1037.htm

part 2
the phantom victory
real player
http://www.informationclearinghouse.info/video1038.htm

part 3
the shadows in the cave
real player
http://www.informationclearinghouse.info/video1040.htm
=====

You should also check out this site for a fantastic collection of other video as well-
http://www.thedossier.ukonline.co.uk/video_september11.htm

[blogbear]

3. At Least Russia Thinks..

[Deja Q]

4. Doomsday clock ought to be reading 23:58 by now.

Still says 11:50. Must be some anti-clenis folks running it...

[The Doctor.]

5. That would have to mean the last administration

was part of the ruse.

I'm cynical enough to believe that we've been gearing up for this.

That still doesn't explain the handing over of missile-guidance tech to China...

I'm still trying to figure that out.

Anyone? anyone?... Buel-oh nevermind.

[Capn Sunshine]

37. No one handed anything over

They allowed a SALE to go forward after serious pressure from the corporate parent and the defense lobby, both of whom funneled a shitload of money to anti-Clinton witch hunters as well.

That's a pretty right wing canard for a supposed "democratic" poster, amigo.

[The Doctor.]

38. When did I ever say I was a 'Democrat'?

Or for that matter, Democratic?

Nonetheless, I was one of the few people against the granting of 'Favored Nation' trading status to China back then.

I don't have all of the information on these issues so I do not pretend to be an authority, but I do think it was a bit odd that those sales were allowed.

Someone had to cave for that to happen.

I'm just curious what kind of strategy was being pursued. If it was merely so that corporations could put up satellites more cheaply, then I would be sorely disappointed.

Got info?

[ashmanonar]

6. so someone mainstream finally said this.

i've been thinking it for months. i think most of us have.

but try to say it...hooboy. i'm glad he's come right out and said it.

[Lizzie Borden]

7. Yes. I certainly am inclined to agree with him.

[RBHam]

8. The myth of Al Qaeda has served the neo-cons well...

Expect them to keep fueling it.

[Mr_Spock]

9. Nominated - because I agree with them - A RW guy at work told me this

He told me Al Quaeda was a fabricated threat - if he says so then I'll just take his word for it :D

[FreedomAngel82]

22. A RWinger??

:crazy: Wow. I'm surprised if it's a rightwinger saying that.

[Mr_Spock]

34. Yeah, well he's actually a socially liberal conservative from Texas

He's an intelligent person who has issues with Dem's only WRT gun control and some of the pet agenda's of people up here in the NE. Heck, I agree with his criticisms at times - maybe he is more in the middle leaning right? I did convince him that a vote for Nader was a waste (he hated Bush and Kerry) and to vote for Kerry. I keep him on the straight & narrow :D

[donheld]

10. Republicans thought al-qaeda was a figment of Clinton's imagination

as long as he was trying to fight them. Remember their "wag the dog" analogies.

[SlavesandBulldozers]

12. yep

looks like there are ideological 180's going on all around.

[oneighty]

36. Careful there my friend.

180

[SlavesandBulldozers]

42. see there's one

i knew i wasn't seeing things!

[K-W]

11. The US government has a history of inventing enemies, as Russia knows.

Which is insane, just as inventing al-queda would be insane, its a difficult question because we rely on networks of information that we cant neccessarily trust.

But one thing is for absolute certain is that the al-queda the white house talks about does not exist and that is what is important.

There is no global terrorist conspiricy, just as there was no global communist conspiricy (outside of the philosophical conspiricy that was never hidden and never threatened to succeed), just as there was no global German conspiricy surrounding WW1. The only real global consiricy was the facists and as soon as they ceased to be a threat to us, we became pro-facist because facists are anti-communists.

[Lone Pawn]

14. There was a global communist conspiracy

and a global capitalist conspiracy. Those would be called Warsaw Pact and NATO. USA and CCCP. KGB and CIA. You know, the cold war? Yeah? That was two superpowers both trying to extend their influence over the entire world.

[K-W]

16. No, there was a nation state called the Soviet Union

that happened to be a very large empire with a large sphere of influence.

An empire is not a conspiricy.

The supposed communist conspiricy is based on the writings of marx mainly, but in practice the revolutionary potential of marxism never seriously manifested itself in any developed nation. In the US and Western Europe the communists played a key role in organizing the labor movement and contributing to the progressive movement. That is why US elites hated it so much. These struggles were sometimes violent and the labor movement did sometimes threaten armed revolt, but I think any honest reading of history shows that unjust government and corporate practices were the reason the conflict reached a level of violence. More stable nations have active communist parties that dont advocate revolution. The only countries we supposedly found communist conspiricies were convienently also nations with massive instability and terrifically unjust political and economic systems like Russia or the many colonized regions of the world, clearly the peasant and worker revolts in these countries was due to the evil black magic of communism.

We pretended a conspiricy, to give us Carte Blanche to crush any populist movement around the world. Any movement against US economic and political control, any movement involving organized workers or peasants, any movement that called for land reform or resource reform. It also meant war on the left inside the United States, a war that still rages.

We did, by the way, refer to the communist conspiricy as the global terrorist conspiricy during the cold war.

What you need to see is that the overall paradigm has never shifted. The enemy is always global, frieghtning, seemingly unstoppable, and requires us, the most powerful nation in the world, to spend our asses off on more military equipment, stay conservative, and resist meaninfgul economic reform domesticaly and abroad.

[Wilms]

13. I figured they were smart enough to know. n/t

[leesa]

15. So do I...created to keep the arms sales and plunder alive.

They were created after the 'communism' boogieman no longer worked. It's ALL a scam.

[leftofthedial]

17. not a figment

a PR invention

and a perfect scapegoat

[greatbubba]

18. I agree

Alqaeda is made up...just like aliens

[EnfantTerrible]

20. There are some aliens

that would disagree with you.:P

[DulceDecorum]

19. Darn

now I will have to surrender my tinfoil hat
and join the mainstream.

[Wilms]

23. kick n/t

[FM Arouet666]

24. The scary part of this whole theory.

You have a Neocon agenda which posits that the U.S. should take a more proactive approach to the world, and the middle east in particular. Then you have a terrorist with financial backing and some influence in the Muslim world. This same group attacks the U.S., very convenient but not unbelievable. The U.S. then goes on a crusade to defend America and defeat the terrorists. The ulterior motive, to gain control of the middle east? Not unrealistic, but for this to work you must have complete control of the U.S government, given that an untoward change in political control could scrap the whole plan. Election 2000 and 2004 a manifestation?

[Wilms]

25. Seems they've been building toward this for sometime. n/t

[xpat]

26. Yup

Zbigniew Brzezinski lays it out in "The Grand Chessboard". He says Americans won't swallow the program without a "Pearl Harbor". Enter al Qaeda, stage right.

[Wilms]

27. Stunning that they're just kind of out there with it.

Zbigniew, Henry, and the whole PNAC Gallery.

[xpat]

28. Successful conspiracies are always out in the open.

To succeed, conspirators need to convince. When the conspiracy is of this magnitude, it can't be hidden. Otherwise, noone would be able to adhere to it. This is just another way of saying that history is largely a matter of conspiracies. A real conspiracy is not a tinfoil hat affair, but a plan instituted by a determined group of people. Take the American Revolution, for instance.

[Wilms]

29. Got it. Thanks. n/t

[thebigidea]

31. Kissinger, you mean? The neocons fuckin' hate him and the realists.

[Wilms]

52. A squabble among thieves. n/t

[radwriter0555]

33. Yes, it's a dream come true, isn't it? Especially when you read the PNAC

manifesto.... it's all just a dream, it's all just a dream...

[mopaul]

30. it's like a batman comic world

bushman versus the maniacal cartoonish osama and his terrorist henchmen in striped shirts and crook masks.

i've never bought into it, but millions have

[radwriter0555]

32. Russia is RIGHT. I've been saying this for almost 3 years...

Apparently I keep good company.

[Anakin Skywalker]

50. Yes! You Are Soviet Spy! We Arrest You Now!

:) Heh heh.

[Igel]

35. Shebarshin retired in 1991.

His specialty was a bit east of the Arab world: Pakistan, Iran, even India.

[merh]

39. The terrorist are our boogey men and the illegal and immoral

war in Iraq is the night light for the pathetic fools (RWers) that have fallen for the boogey man scare.

And my nation falls apart around me! :cry:

[candle_bright]

40. The title of this thread is misleading

One specialist said this, not "Russia."

I don't buy the Al-Qaeda is made up story either. Al-Qaeda just means "the base" anyway, like a base for a network of many subgroups.

[Wilms]

41. .

[Wilms]

43. kick n/t

[Wilms]

44. .

[Rex]

45. It is far worse than the Russian MI guy thinks!

I have student after student tell me we attacked Iraq because of 911. Bush has gone way beyond Al-Qaeda, we now link (70% of Americans) terrorism to Iraq! I could have sworn it was Reagan that loved Saddam and his war against Iran. He also loved OBL fight in Afghanistan against the Russians. Surprised it took so long for the Russians to say it.

[Wilms]

46. .

[davidthegnome]

47. Well persinily I think

We need ta git dem terrists, we need ta git dem and whup dem. we need ta spread freedom ta every corner of da world. osama bin laden is an alien from planet pluto aint he? Yeah I just bet he aint. Git yer gear liddle people, we gonna go have us a shindig.

Now wheres dem gosh'dern WMDS? nope... not under my desk... not in the closit... maybe i should search the bathroom. Dem russian iraqian iranain korean chinese terrists will nevur stop lookin fer ways ta harm our great nation and its stupid people. and neither will we.

(Maybe Putin's hiding them, yes, time to go after Putin and teach him about democracy.)

[Blue_Tires]

48. ttt

[Massacure]

49. I doubt al-Qaeda is a figment of Bush's imagination

Unfortunately for the world, Bush overly politicizes them though.

[Wilms]

51. I agree. He knows it's a ruse.

:)

[Guy Fawkes]

53. Did some research...

Al-Qaeda *is* mentioned in the new york times before 9/11. It wasn't mentioned before August 1998.

[Al-CIAda]

54. kick