Poor people have it EASY! (at least that's what this e-mail implies)

[4_Legs_Good]

I'm sure this has come up before. Again it's all about income tax, not about the myriad of regressive taxes that we all pay, but here's the message. I'm sure it's been brought up before.

Debunk if you can! (PLEASE!)

david

*******************************************************
Interesting economic statements.

If you have any friends or acquaintances that have trouble sorting through
the political rhetoric about taxes, this may help.

Here is one of the easiest ways to understand the United States Tax system and what really happens when taxes are raised and when they are cut.

This is expecially intended to set the record straight for all my poorly informed
Democratic friends (and you are my friends) who think the rich are the only
beneficiaries of a tax cut.

Top 1% earn 21% of all income and pay 37.5% of all taxes;
Top 5% earn 35% of all income and pay 56.5% of all taxes;
Top 10% earn 46% of all income and pay 67% of all taxes;
Top 25% pay 84% of all taxes;
Top 50% pay 96.5% of all taxes; the bottom 50% pay 3.5% of all taxes.

Just in case you are not completely clear on this issue, the following may help:

Tax Cuts - A Simple Lesson in Economics
This is how the cookie crumbles.
Suppose that every day 10 people go out to dinner. The bill for all ten comes to $100. If they paid their bill the way we pay our taxes, it would go something like this.

The first 4 people (the poorest) would pay nothing.
The 5th would pay $1.
The 6th would pay $3.
The 7th would pay $7.
The 8th would pay $12.
The 9th would pay $18.
The 10th (the richest) would pay $59.
The 10 people ate in the restaurant every day and seemed quite happy with this arrangement, until one day, the owner threw them a curve.

"Since you are all such good customers," he said, "I'm going to reduce the cost of your
daily meals by $20." So now dinner for the 10 would only cost $80.

The group still wanted to pay their bill the way we pay our taxes. So, the first four people were unaffected. They would still eat free. But, what about the other six, the paying customers? How could they divvy up the $20 windfall so that everyone would get his "fair share"? They realized that if they divided $20 by 6, they would each get #3.33.

But, if they substracted that from everyone's previous share, the 5th and 6th persons would each end up being "paid" to eat their meals. So, the owner of the restaurant
suggested that it would be fair to reduce each person's bill by roughly the same amount, and he proceeded to work out the amounts each person should pay.

And so:
The 5th person, like the first 4, now paid nothing (100% saving).
The 6th person now paid $2 (33% saving).
The 7th person now paid $5 instead of $7 (28% saving).
The 8th person now paid $9 instead of $12 (25% saving).
The 9th person now paid $14 instead of $18 (22% saving).
The 10th person now paid $49 instead of $59 (16% saving).
Each of the six was better off than before and the first four continued to eat free. But, once outside the restaurant, the people began to compare their savings.

"I only got a dollar out of the $20, declared the 6th person."
"Yeah, that's right," exclaimed the 5th person, "I only saved a dollar too. It's unfair that he got ten times more than me."
"That's true!!" shouted the 7th person. "Why should he get $10 when all I got was $2?" "The wealthy get all the breaks."
"Wait a minute," yelled the first four people in unison. "We didn't get anything at all. The system exploits the poor."

The nine people surrounded the 10th person and beat him up. The next night the 10th person didn't show up for dinner, so the nine sat down and ate without him. But, when it came time to pay the bill, they discovered something important. They didn't have enough money between all of them to pay even half of the bill.

And that, boys and girls, journalists and college professors, is how our tax system works. The people who pay the highest taxes get the most benefit from a tax reduction. Tax them too much, attack them for being wealthy, and they just may not show up at the
table anymore. There are a lot of good restaurants in Europe and Caribbean.
***************************************************************

[Career Prole]

1. The wealthy "just may not show up at the table anymore"

Tell them not to let the door hit 'em in the ass.

At least in my inbox I can delete these things.

[4_Legs_Good]

8. Hee hee - The funny part is the person who sent it to me...

Yup on the e-mail. The funny part is that the guy who sent it to me has been out of a job for almost 2 years, is 35 living at home with his parents who are also housing his brother and his family of 6...

And THIS guy is sending me an e-mail which is fighting for the rights of the top 1%!!! It blows my mind how these people are so brainwashed that they spend time and effort fighting against their best interests to further enrich the wealthiest among us while they're, at best, living in a freaking trailer.

david

[NMDemDist2]

2. first of all, it's BS secondly, it takes no account of how much folks

have left in their wallet after dinner

third the "four who eat free" pay a higher percentage of their income in FICA and sales taxes than the 1%er pays for all taxes on the higher income

it's bullshit all the way around

[hootinholler]

20. Plus it doesn't even touch

Sales taxes or excise taxes.

-Hoot

[Warpy]

3. Easy debunk

"FICA"

40% of the FICA paid by working people is being robbed and used as income taxes.

the lower 50% of earners generally pay much more in FICA than they do in income taxes.

The lower 50% of earners are therefore shouldering much of the burden of government, something the rich are getting a free ride on.

There are no oil depletion allowances on FICA; there are no deductions at all. FICA is paid on the first dollar through $90,000. Not a dime of FICA is paid on earnings above that, no matter how many hundreds of millions of earnings are being raked in. FICA does not apply to income earned by sitting on your ass and clipping coupons. It is only applied to income from your sweat and tears.

Tax whiners like to pretend FICA doesn't exist and that 40% of all FICA payments aren't being used as income taxes. Tax whiners are only proving once again just how disingenuous they are. Give them pacifiers and work to get their taxes hiked up far enough that they'll once again have something real to scream about.

[LoZoccolo]

4. Ha ha! Lots of good restaurants in Europe...

...where they have even more of a progressive tax!

Plus the Caribbean seems like a shitty place to live compared to here.

[WoodrowFan]

5. Snopes has a little

http://www.snopes.com/business/taxes/howtaxes.asp

[4_Legs_Good]

6. Yeah, I read that, but it's only about authorship

I find it amazing how many of these right wing e-mails get attributed to credible sources and end up being totally bogus.

david

[Beaverhausen]

7. The rich have expense accounts and write it off

[yankeedem]

9. Here's my rebuke

A boss decides to go out to dinner with nine of his employees.

The boss orders a magnum of Dom Perignon, the finest lobster, and dessert.

His executives order a steak dinner with all the trimmings, with fine Scotch to drink.

Their secretaries order chef salads, and drink Diet Coke.

The people who clean the office ate just the bread which was put on the table.

The bill came to $1000. The boss said "I have an idea, why don't we split the check?".

So everyone at the table, whether they ate bread or fine lobster, paid $100 each. When it came time to leave the tip, the boss said "hey, I don't have to pay the tip, I only have to pay for dinner. It's like how I only pay FICA on the first part of my income". The secretaries and custodians had to pay the tip.

The next night, the other nine employees went to dinner without the boss. Without having to pay for the bosses' excess, the bill came to only $200, and everyone ate steak. And the waiter got a fat tip for his efforts.

They figured out that they could create their own business without the boss, after all, after saving all that money from dinner, they would soon have enough to start their own business!

[HawkerHurricane]

13. Yours is better than mine.

I bow to the superior anecdote.

[yankeedem]

16. To attack freeper logic

You have to write in freeper style.

[4_Legs_Good]

14. NIIIIIIICE!!!

I love it!

:)

Thanks!

david

[HawkerHurricane]

10. This would only matter...

if all 10 people were getting the same services.

Look at it this way...

Mr. Rich Man got Filet Minon, Caviar and Champaign... which cost 75$
Mr. 7, 8, 9 got Super Deluxe Bacon Cheeseburgers with all the trimmings, which cost 7$ each.
Mr. 5 and 6 got Kids meals, costing 2$ each.
And Mr. 1, 2, 3, and 4 ate crackers and water (essentially free).
Now, those of you who can do math might note that Mr. 10 got a 75$ meal for 59$... his meal was subsidized by everyone else (except the 4 poorest...)

Except... most people pay more in 'payroll taxes' than they do in income taxes... so that's another story.

[yankeedem]

11. Great minds think alike

See post 9 :)

[WoodrowFan]

18. that's pretty good

I like that HH. nice job.

[DIKB]

12. It makes NO MENTION

of the portions received. Or how about the fact that corporations have many tax exemption loopholes, and that many have received reimbursements, even though many haven't paid taxes in YEARS ?

If the person who pays the most gets the largest portion of a meal, say a large T-bone steak, whereas the poorest lives off of bread and water.

This completely ignores the fact that your taxes are based on income, it assumes all receive equally, and that some are victimized by being forced to pay out the nose. BOTTOM LINE - There is a VAST difference in that which is received, therefore there is a vast difference in that which is paid.

Amount paid, Goods received, Amount reimbursed, and how much of the paid came from necessity and how much from excess ?
The oversimplification is a result of arrogance, slap this person with some facts.

[Joz]

15. Doesn't this prove our side?

Top 1% pay 37.5% of all taxes;
...
the bottom 50% pay 3.5% of all taxes.


Doesn't that prove that tax cuts benefit the rich, and barely make an impact on the poor? (except a loss of essential social services?)

[MrMonk]

17. Fuzzy math

The numbers are biased, through rounding, to make it look as if the guys on the lower end of the scale are making out at the expense of the one guy at the top of the scale. When you use your cents, you see that they each get a 20% reduction. When you figure in regressive taxes (FICA, sales tax, etc.) and loss of the services that will no longer be funded, its becomes clear the guys at the bottom are not receiving any benefit from the cut. The only thing left to do is for 1-6 to dine on 10.

[Ready4Change]

19. What are the actual income numbers, I wonder?

If the average income for those brackets were revealed I wonder how it would sound?

[4_Legs_Good]

21. Yeah, that's a really good point

Sorry, but it's gonna take a whole lot for me to feel sorry for anyone who makes $100,000,000.00/year regardless of how much they pay in taxes. Even if it was 90% they'd still pull down $10M.

david