church cuts ties to food pantry - you'd never guess why

[donsu]

http://www.heraldsun.com/state/6-588371.html


Church cuts ties to food pantry because of Catholics


A church has withdrawn its support for a food pantry serving the needy because the pantry works with Roman Catholics.

Central Church of God explained its decision in a letter March 1 from minister of evangelism Shannon Burton to Loaves & Fishes in Charlotte.

"As a Christian church, we feel it is our responsibility to follow closely the (principles) and commands of Scripture," the letter said.

"To do this best, we feel we should abstain from any ministry that partners with or promotes Catholicism, or for that matter, any other denomination promoting a works-based salvation."
-snip-
------------------------------

AND GET THIS: they also didn't like it because three Muslems were allowed to serve food. they also cut ties with Love, Inc. that helped poor old people BUT the church said: " there was no animosity toward any of the organizations."


the religiously insane are dangerous and need therapy

[sui generis]

1. I'm in favor of banishment and executions, personally

what a judgemental bunch of primitives - and ironically "holier than thou".

Get thee behind me, christian.

[bryant69]

2. Interesting

Apparently following those bits of scripture that suggest feeding the hungry or clothing the needy are less important than those bits that suggest working with catholics are bad? What verses are those?

Bryant
Check it out --> http://politicalcomment.blogspot.com

[punpirate]

15. This has to do with a longstanding...

... disapproval of the fundies for Catholicism which, I think, is Baptist-oriented. The fundies believe that one can only be saved if one is "born again," i.e., accepts Christ as one's personal savior and makes public that salvation through baptism.

The fundies believe that Catholicism preaches salvation through good works (which probably goes back to the Catholic practice of buying indulgences, confession, repentance and penance, etc.).

It's probably theological nit-picking, but the fundies are pretty black and white about it--you're saved, or you aren't--while the Catholics do take into account one's good works and repentance.

The scripture of both religions includes the demand to aid the poor.

This is what is referred to in the Central Church of Christ's disapproval of "works-based" Catholicism.

[ProfessorGAC]

33. Commonly Known As "Good Works Won't Get You. . .

. . .into Heaven" theology. RC's believe that you make yourself worthy during life by doing good works and deeds. Fundies believe that completely absorption into the word is what's needed, and no amount of good deeds are the path to salvation.

The latter does seem rather odd, given the teachings of Christ.
The Professor

[Midlodemocrat]

37. Which is a total misrepresentation of the Catholic faith.

I am a cradle Catholic and I believe that I am going to Heaven when I die because I believe in Jesus Christ. I was baptized as an infant, so I do not see the need to be 'born again'.

I perform good works, not out of any desire to increase my chances of passing through the Pearly Gates, but because that is who I am. I believe completely and totally in the corporal works of mercy and have devoted all of my adult life to performing them.

[punpirate]

39. Okay, then...

... tell me that the practice of buying indulgences never existed.

Tell me that the practice of confession and penance doesn't exist.

It's not a misrepresentation. It's fact, and that's what disturbs the fundies. They are basically Calvinists, who believe that some are saved, and some are condemned (i.e., they're saved, we're not), and they grasp at those practices in the Catholic faith to accentuate their beliefs in the nature of salvation. Part of that attitude goes all the way back to the Reformation, due to the political influence of the Catholic Church in European affairs. Saying that it's a "total misrepresentation of the Catholic faith" ignores about 1300 years of history.

Try being a little less sensitive and think more about comparative religion and history. That's where my original reply is based.

Cheers.

[Midlodemocrat]

40. I wasn't being sensitive

and I was speaking in reference to the ignorance of fundies, not you.

Vatican II did away with all of the stuff of which you speak. Therefore, I am correct in saying that the Calvinistic thought process of most fundies is incorrect. It is a total misrepresentation. Confession and penance have nothing to do with getting into Heaven. It is simply a way to cleanse oneself.

Of course indulgences were wrong. They no longer exist. Most fundies that I know, and I know a lot because I live in a red state, have no concept of Catholicism and the concept of transubstantiation. They simply can't grasp it. To me, if you can't get that, you don't get Catholicism, period.

[seabeyond]

3. we could learn divide and conquer too,

another thing i am doing with religion in my area, pitting the catholics and baptists, wink

[rodeodance]

7. America--the land of Christian love (aka-infolerance)

[Lerkfish]

4. wow. just wow. I think they'll be very surprised on judgment day.

:)

Christ never taught or practiced intolerance.

[oscar111]

8. "works based salvation": the main idea till 1900

then, came those who pushed for

"only need to profess faith"

No need to do anything. Perfect for the GOP. Empty mouthings, nothing more needed.

Today, few know this history, know that most churches once saw works as necessary.

They think todays spavined theology has always been the rule.

[HockeyMom]

24. Purgatory

Catholic church teaches there is an "in between" place, not just heaven or hell. Yes, based on the good works concept. If you don't believe in Jesus and are not Christian, that does not mean you are DOOMED TO HELL. A Jew, Muslim, even a atheist, who live their lives in accordance to what Jesus TAUGHT (giving and caring to the poor, the sick, the helpless, etc.) will not go to hell, but an in between state of Purgatory, based on the fact that even though they do not accept him as God but are living according to Jesus's principles.

Kinda takes away all of the Fundie FEAR aspect, doesn't it?

[brooklynite]

36. Hmmm.

but an in between state of Purgatory

Is that a "Red" state or or a "Blue" state?

[salin]

10. and never advocated withholding

food for the needy - based on intolerance that is based on folks actually following his teachings (eg good works.)

[merh]

5. What exactly is

"a works-based salvation"

Let's play word substitution:
"To do this best, we feel we should abstain from any ministry that partners with or promotes Tax Collectors, ..."

"To do this best, we feel we should abstain from any ministry that partners with or promotes Lepers, ..."

[oscar111]

11. works based, means you must help those in need: feed the hungry, clothe

the threadbare, and so forth.

In other words act like a democrat.

[salin]

16. Some rad right believe

that good works are not needed to get to heaven - just "acceptance of Christ" - and that those who take the good works avenue (you know, trying to act according to what Jesus taught) actually are... er... misguiding others by preventing them from "accepting Christ" - since good works are enough.

The funny thing is that long ago the thought was that such acceptance would lead to trying to act according to Jesus's will (eg his teachings) and thus lead to good works - and not doing good works thereby would indicate that there was not real acceptance. But that got dropped long ago. It is what bush meant (or played to) when he said tht 'Jesus had changed his heart' - and he showed the current state of what that really means today for many when he couldn't give any description of what that meant other than repeating himself.

[merh]

21. You mean, I can accept Jesus as my lord and savior and do

nothing, and ignore other people and be mean spirited and I will still make it to heaven? :shrug: What book are they going by any way?

[MountainLaurel]

31. Exactly!

[tanyev]

6. Woof.

Would they like to bring back the Inquisition?

[ClintonTyree]

9. And what do you want to bet.................

that the "Central Church of God" is one of dumbya's "Faith Based" organizations that gets Federal funds? :wtf:

Another bunch of raving lunatics disguising themselves as Christians. Our pretzelnit acts like a spoiled three year old so everybody that supports him thinks it's OK to do the same. GROW UP, you freaking sheep!

[oscar111]

13. I think COG is the church with the preacher here on our radio,

who is really a laugh. Nam was a UN action, he said. Not as far as i know, someone tell us for sure.

He says a lot of ultra RW ideas.

[DBoon]

12. There will be more of this

As these folks become embolden by their seeming public success, they will be more and more public about revealing their intolerant side.

You don't have to be an atheist to be a blasphemer.

[biscotti]

14. How disgusting

Horrible hypocrites. When will this madness stop?????????

[me b zola]

17. Funny how the fundies flash to the Pope

whenever he spews something evil that they agree with:

~hate gays

~hate choice

~hate right to die

....then they love the Pope.


MoDo was on Imus in the Morning and said that everyone is so worried that if we leave Iraq now it will turn into an Islamic fundamentalism State, but if a martian were to visit earth it would believe that America was a theocracy. B-) Gotta love MoDo!

[fishwax]

28. If a martian were to visit earth

it would believe that America was a theocracy.

What a great line. ;) Thanks for sharing it.

[matcom]

18. let's put all the churches in a room

to fight it out and see which one comes out standing. wouldn't that be "divine"?

[Lerkfish]

19. sure. the room is called "the world".

:)

sorry, couldn't resist.

[northzax]

38. oh great, but then we'd all be mormons

nice thought.

on the plus side, we would have polygamy, so that's not all bad. (based on the thought that fundies always kill moderates)

[shadowknows69]

20. a works based salvation?

yeah we wouldn't want to be bothered with earning salvation or anything. Just say you belong to a church and you're cool with God. Doesn't matter you support a murdering President, Jesus saves.

[scarletlib]

25. Catholics (and I am one of them) do not believe that you must

do good works in order to attain salvation.

This is an inversion of our belief. Salvation is attained by accepting Jesus as your Savior--your acknowledgement that he is the Son of Christ, the Messiah etc. We do not get 'saved' in the way that Evangelical Christians do.

Catholics are either born into and baptized into the faith(most) or you come to that faith later (like me) at which point you study the Catholic Beliefs and then you may be Baptized (if it hasn't been done before) and you make a profession of your faith before the Congregation.

A major theme in Catholic Theology is this: If you are truly a Catholic Christian then your faith must (and naturally will) manifest itself in the Good Works that you do in the community and for your fellow human. It seems quite logical to me. How can anyone claim to be a Christian and yet not seek to do the good works that Jesus said we should do for our fellow humans. The desire to do good works just flows from your salvation and Christianity.

There is no minimum or maximum of good works a Catholic must do. There is no litmus test saying oh you need to do more good works or you won't go to heaven.

Catholics manifest their faith by observing the Sacraments, going to Mass and doing good works. Of all of these in the eyes of the Church, observing the Sacraments and going to Mass probably count more for salvation in the "Official" scheme of things.

Finally, I am what is called a lapsed Catholic at this time. I do not regularly attend Mass or take Holy Communion. However, the philosphy of doing good works for my fellow human being infuses my whole life.)

[MountainLaurel]

22. The future of charity in the U.S.

Although federal funding, is not an issue here . . .

As more and more funding is transferred into faith-based initiatives, you can expect to see more of this. Organizations can discriminate against anyone they want to as long as their religion says it's ok. They don't have to abide by licensing and professional standards (e.g., your substance abuse counselors don't actually have to have their counseling license). They don't have to offer comprehensive programs equivalent to the ones they are replacing.

Just hope and pray that you're never in need of assistance from these snake-oil salespeople.

[Wilber_Stool]

23. Nobody represses Christians

like other Christians. They found this out in Europe over the last 500 years. I hope it doesn't take that long over here.

[ultraist]

26. Good point

The most intense religiophobia comes from one religion or sect towards another. That's why there are so many sects/demoninations of Christianity. Each time a group broke from the original Christianity, violence ensued.

In the South, there are relatively few Catholics and there has always been a hostiity from the fundies towards Catholics and Episcopalians.

[alfredo]

27. gonna

kick this.

[qanda]

29. I guess their mission won't be accomplished

"Our mission here at Central is to be a great pentecostal worship center and to be the givingest church in America."

http://www.centralchurchofgod.org/index.html

[tanyev]

30. "Givingest"?

I nominate them for most grammatically-challenged church in America.

[JHB]

32. They just can't help themselves!

Remind every Catholic Bush supporter of this. They have to be reminded that for the "Christian Right", "Christian" does not include Catholics. They may have learned how to tone down their rhetoric in public, but once they get done being distracted with the New Agers, muslims, "secular humanists" and gays, they'll be back after their traditional favorite targets, Jews and Catholics!

[brooklynite]

34. Well, as long as the decision was "faith-based".....

they should still be up for cash from the Administration.

[jokerman93]

35. How to start a cult

1. Everyone qualifies! (Even dis-empowered losers who want real bad to be winners!)

2. Easy to understand. Full ideology fits on a folded brochure or a comic book tract. It can be about anything and what it's about can change through revelation.

3. Easy to join. One quick session to accept "jebuzz" or dear leader gets you saved.

4. Easy to practice. No basic changes required. Just think, act, believe, and vote like the cultist next door. No reading or study is really necessary - dear leader (pastor, Rev. Moon, Dubbya) explains everything. Simply witness (talk about faith), and recruit as many new members as possible.

5. You can feel the payoff as a vague sense of self-righteous inflation. You have a right to judge and despise those who differ. You are chosen. You are special. (No really!)

Cults are fun and easy to start. CIA does it. Moonies do it. Corporate fascists do it too! It's the Amerikan way.

[QC]

41. dupe

http://www.democraticunderground.com/discuss/duboard.php?az=show_topic&forum=104&topic_id=3316565