In light of the protests yesterday, a question

[grace0418]

I got back from the protests yesterday and got into a "conversation" with my husband. He's a very intelligent person and a great debater. I'm not a great debater at all so I often have trouble articulating my opinions in a way that makes sense to him. That's why I need some help from you all.

The main question is why do we protest? He thinks that protesting is a waste of resources and it makes people annoyed at you instead of sympathetic. He's pretty well on board with the ideas that liberals embrace (although he's sceptical of people on both sides of the fence) and he understands the issues we're trying to convey. But he just doesn't understand what good protesting does. And I can't seem to make him understand.

I said it shows solidarity, it tells others that they are not alone, it raises questions not asked in the msm, it forces those in power to pay attention, and it forces change. He argued that there must be other ways to do that without wasting tax dollars on police and street cleanup, not to mention traffic snarl-ups. I remember coming home from the huge protest that marched up Lake Shore Drive in 2003 (he watched on tv) and he was really ticked because he saw an ambulance that was stuck trying to get to the hospital.

I think part of the problem is that he doesn't react well to anything "in your face" and generally speaking, neither do I. I don't like sales people that hover, door to door pollsters, telephone solicitors, etc. But I do believe in the power of public protest. So I can I convince him what the difference is and why it's necessary? I'm not expecting him to join me on my next march but I would like a little more support and a little less disdain for what I do.

By the way, my husband is someone who claims Ghandi is his hero, which seems pretty hypocritical to me, but I didn't think of that until after our discussion was over (the way it always is with me).

[KarenS]

1. some thoughts about protesting,,,,

I think you made good points.

I'm on my way to a Pro-Peace rally so I will just post some bullet points,,,, =)

-protesting is not all that I do ~ I write letters, emails, watch where we spend our money (away from Repug donors)
-this country was started by dissenters =)
-sometimes it just feels good to get out there & march & hold signs & be around like-minded people.
-This is not the time to be 'on the fence' about what is happening in this country,,,, it is time to stand up to the ones that are taking away our civil rights, launching illegal wars, ruining our economy and dividing this country.
-when I protest, it is not about trying to change other people's minds; it is to show that I believe strongly that everything is going down the wrong path!!

Good point about Ghandi,,,, he lead many protests & boycotts =)

Peace.

[Lydia Guerra]

2. Put a Face to the Protester

I protest because it is important for others to look at my face, hear my voice, see what I'm wearing, watch how I walk, etc.

I'm your next door neighbor, you child's school teacher, the clerk at the department store, your pastor, your car mechanic, your plumber, your mother, your sister, your daughter,

your wife!

I want the people looking out the windows of their cars, houses, apartments, passing me on the sidewalk, to see me and to see themselves. I want those thousands of police (in Chicago) to see me and see themselves.

My presence at a protest or a rally puts a real face on the majority of those who oppose this illegal war and this illegal administration. Once you see how familiar I look, you know, like a "regular person," maybe you will join me for the next march and the next one. Critical mass.

Okay, so the corporate media may not cover the protest or the rally. If they do - they focus on those who choose to be disruptive. That's why we have the internet, now, isn't it!?

Of course, protesting isn't the only form of action one can take. Maybe your husband is uncomfortable marching and rallying. No matter what one does, patience and persistence is required. If it's results or "impact" he's looking for, maybe he could write to the editor, call his local politicians, join a civic group that helps clean up the neighborhood or maybe he could volunteer at a shelter or at the local elementary school.

I am the protester. Look at me. Look at you!

[Lydia Guerra]

3. PS in Chicago, the only one wasting resources was the Mayor!!

Overtime pay for all those cops - to ultimately arrest a Quaker and a minister? Give me a break. I wasted none of my own resources - in fact, I got to take along walk, let off some steam, hear encouraging speakers, and go for coffee with my friends at the end of the train ride home.

[Lydia Guerra]

4. Look - here's some pix!

Chicago -

http://pg.photos.yahoo.com/ph/gettysburgii/slideshow2?.dir=/76c2&.src=ph&.beg=0&.spd=2

Minneapolis -

http://www.dodgerdigital.com/rally/

Etc. Check out the DU States and see if others have posted photos.
Looks like anyone we know could've been there.

[grace0418]

10. Oh I know, it was ridiculous

I said the same thing in my post about the rally. The part that is so stupid is that the police are keeping tabs on us. They read our plans for protest so they know we're not planning to bomb or set fire to or hurt anything or anyone. It's a PEACE rally for cliff's sake. And yet they show up like we're a bunch of terrorists threatening to take hostages. It's utterly absurd.

My pictures and post about the rally are here if anyone is interested:

http://www.democraticunderground.com/discuss/duboard.php?az=view_all&address=150x6119

[tsuki]

5. It was an eye-opener to me. Somehow, I have just never connected

as unconcerned America really is. In the middle of a war, people are partying and drinking all day and all night in the Quarter. The war does not touch them, and so I am beginning to believe, it does not concern them.

We had support along the way. Horns honked, thumbs up, people shaking our hand. But once we entered the French Quarter with all the tourists, they were really angry, some of them, that we disturbed their fun with reality.

A couple of angry middle aged men in their Izods, or whatever the near-rich wear these days, yelled, "You could stand their and talk like that if it wasn't for Bush."

Fact is Freedom of Speech is what its all about, and I wouldn't have to stand their if it wasn't for Bush.

[mrdmk]

6. People who do not...

speak their mind

write the letters

keep themselves informed

get together with other people either for or against an endeavor

--Have Given Up--

Why do you think Arnold Schwarzenegger called people "girlie men", who do not think their government are doing things correctly. The answer is that the government will have to do what the masses of people want done which is very difficult and less of a monetary reward for that person.

[manic expression]

7. We protest

to make our cause visible. To make our fight tangible. We protest to show people that we are serious about what we believe in and that we are willing to put our bodies on the line for that.

Protests put things in people's faces, it shows them the true physical embodiment of a movement (or anything else). It makes a sentiment undeniable.

Yes, an ambulance being held up is very unfortunate, but shall we abandon such a good cause due to such a relatively small occurrence?

By the way, that is an interesting question. Thanks for bringing it up.

[concord]

8. An article by Howard Zinn put a fire under my butt last month

He puts everything in perspective. This is a very long fight, but there is hope. Against strong odds, social movements have brought about positive change.

Here's some of the article, but I recommend reading all of it. It really helped me put aside my despair and get moving again. It makes the argument for protest.


==========================================
Published in the March 2005 issue of The Progressive
Changing Minds, One at a Time
by Howard Zinn

<snip>

That question leads me to a larger one, which I suspect most of us have pondered: What does it take to bring a turnaround in social consciousness--from being a racist to being in favor of racial equality, from being in favor of Bush's tax program to being against it, from being in favor of the war in Iraq to being against it? We desperately want an answer, because we know that the future of the human race depends on a radical change in social consciousness.

It seems to me that we need not engage in some fancy psychological experiment to learn the answer, but rather to look at ourselves and to talk to our friends. We then see, though it is unsettling, that we were not born critical of existing society. There was a moment in our lives (or a month, or a year) when certain facts appeared before us, startled us, and then caused us to question beliefs that were strongly fixed in our consciousness--embedded there by years of family prejudices, orthodox schooling, imbibing of newspapers, radio, and television.

This would seem to lead to a simple conclusion: that we all have an enormous responsibility to bring to the attention of others information they do not have, which has the potential of causing them to rethink long-held ideas. It is so simple a thought that it is easily overlooked as we search, desperate in the face of war and apparently immovable power in ruthless hands, for some magical formula, some secret strategy to bring peace and justice to the land and to the world.

"What can I do?" The question is thrust at me again and again as if I possessed some mysterious solution unknown to others. The odd thing is that the question may be posed by someone sitting in an audience of a thousand people, whose very presence there is an instance of information being imparted which, if passed on, could have dramatic consequences. The answer then is as obvious and profound as the Buddhist mantra that says: "Look for the truth exactly on the spot where you stand."

More http://www.commondreams.org/views05/0210-28.htm

[diamond14]

9. pre-bush* wars... marches were to put pressure on bushites to PREVENT wars

and to force bush* to REACH OUT to all the greatness in America, to find a solution OUTSIDE of WAR....but bush* LIED to Americans, and colin powell LIED in front of the UN, and rumsfeld LIED and they went ahead and BOMBED a city of 11 million civilians...


then more and more street marches continues throught the past three years, as more and more Americans became aware that this is morally and ethically reprehensible and has dimished our country's once honorable position in the world....


currently, we are no longer engaged in 'PROTESTS', we are engaged in 'Pro-Peace rallies and events' in direct opposition to hard-line PRO-WAR activists and war-profiteers....this Pro-Peace activism at the Neighborhood Level has raised awareness in America...today CNN poll showed the a very large majority of Americans think bush* wars are WRONG....

here's is my NEWS release on the current purpose of this weekends "Peace Vigils", and "Pro-Peace events".....it's time to shut down bush* follies of death and destruction and BRING OUR TROOPS HOME...


http://www.democraticunderground.com/discuss/duboard.php?az=view_all&address=104x3307013

[grace0418]

11. Keep it coming! This is very helpful!

Thanks everyone.

[shadowknows69]

12. because it's the only thing we have left in our power to do?

or perhaps just to remind the powers that be that we're still here and some of us are still listening and watching them. Also that if we ever need to take things to the next level that there are still some true patriots left willing to do the work.

[BuyingThyme]

13. The first time Clinton ran for president, I stopped a war against Iraq.

Poppy Bush fell behind in the presidential race, so he started rattling his saber. The media were forced to ask whether or not Poppy was making war noises simply because he was faltering. In the end, he backed off in shame and decided to Red-bait instead. (Remember?)

By demonstrating, we stopped a war, removed a monster, and elected a president -- all in one swoop.

That's why I protest.

[grace0418]

15. The media was forced to ask real questions?

That would be a great start these days, wouldn't it?

And now, back to our top story about Terry Schiavo following by an indepth analysis of Michael Jackson...

[Wilms]

14. .

[lukasahero]

16. Tell him because of people like my husband

who keeps comparing everything to Viet Nam but said to me today when I showed him the pictures "Now if we could only get a few hundred thousand more people to show up".

[Imajika]

17. I think protests have increasingly little impact...

I applaud everyone who goes out and protests for whatever causes they believe in, but I just think most Americans have gotten used to the idea that there is always some group or other that will get out and protest just about everything.

The only way a protest really has a significant impact is if the vast majority of the participants are non political people who would otherwise have never considered taking to the streets. That is something people would be likely to notice - when their non political friends and family join protests.

And some protests, where the slogans and costumes are particularly partisan in nature - such as prominent Bush=Hitler banners and Palestinian flag displays, might even be counterproductive as it makes it appear that the cause is only taken up by radicals.

I could well be wrong, and I do admire people who get out and make the effort, I just suspect the impact on US public opinion is slim to none.

Imajika

[grace0418]

19. Honey? Is that you?

;) Sorry, that just sounds a lot like what he said.

[tinanator]

20. yeah youre wrong

its all about public perception and opinion, and every time a group of people come together in public, another group of people see it, and thinks about it, and that is something that cannot be done any other way as long as the fascist media holds the reins. Just because the oligarchs are laughing all the way to the weapons catalog doesnt mean these demonstrations are ineffective. What those demons do will return to haunt them in this life, as long as the righteous opposition maintains its momentum and visibility. Considerable educating needs to be done because of the black hole the media operates, and these assemblies are a lesson full of lessons.
newsflash- Bush is Hitler is Fascism is Osama is 9-11-01 is PATRIOT ACT is your problem too.

Go to one, see if you dont run into some friends who you didnt realize werent complacent or complicit.

[theboss]

18. I think "Who" is protesting is the issue

Living in DC, I'm pretty much immune to protests and marches at this point. But I think the issue with the anti-war/pro-peace/anti-Bush rallies is that it is the same few hundred thousands folks every few months. And they have been characterized (rightly or wrongly) as "professional" protestors.

The marches in DC that have actually gotten attention are the ones where the marchers are from unexpected groups - black men in their 30s (Million Man March), housewives (Million Mom March), middle age white men (Promise Keepers), etc.

With the war, it's always the same group of activist college students, ANSWER activists, old Nuclear Freeze activists, etc. I don't think it's anything that surprises anyone.

[grace0418]

21. That's the problem with our current MSM

Every march I've done has been filled with people you'd probably not expect to be at these things. Sure there were the people you'd expect at the march and that's who you see on tv. But in reality the people you don't see are the housewives, the blue collar folks, the grandparents, the disabled, the yuppies, the high school kids, the military families. The MSM doesn't want you to see those people because it's a lot easier to demonize or ignore a bunch of "hippies" who will protest anything.