Democrats--The Party Of Death!

[skjpm]

Jesus H. Friggin' Christ, people! Can you not see that if the Democrats don't stand up for Terry Schiavo, we are going to forever be the party that let this woman die? They are going to show videos of her convulsing and crying for a week until the camera pans in on her last feeble breath--and every Democrat running for Congress is going to have to answer for that.

Is it worth it to you? If the Republicans are grandstanding, well, let's grandstand right back. Let's stand next to the bed of Terri Schiavo and say, "We need to save her because she represents everyone in this country who needs health insurance. She represents all the lives we could have saved in Iraq but didn't. She represents all women who are abandoned by their husbands." Let's make her a symbol for our causes.

It's ghoulish, you say? OK, we're going to lose every election for the next ten years based on the "Democrats let Terri die" issue. Have you ever heard, "Paris is worth a mass"? Sometimes, you have to fight the ghouls by making ghoulishness work in your favor.

[K-W]

1. I respect the constitution, clearly you dont.

And frankly, if respecting the constitution means losing elections, so be it.

[KC21304]

2. The Democrats ARE standing up for Terri Schiavo

and for our forum of government that has worked for over 200 years.
Get a grip !

[stray cat]

5. I agree - but watch how it gets spun....

[rzemanfl]

24. Listen to my paranoia. Terri Schiavo dies while this is tied up

in " partisan procedural wrangling" and the Repugs use it as a hammer against "obstructionist tactics" in Congress (read "filibuster"). Would Rove do something like this? Of course he would. There was plenty of time before this weekend for them to have pulled this stunt, they knew when the tube was coming out.

[Cha]

30. They are Definetly standing up for

Terry Schiavo and making me proud, too!

Dignity in Death!

"1999 Gov Dubya Signed Law Withdrawing Life Support Despite Family Objectin"

http://www.democraticunderground.com/discuss/duboard.php?az=view_all&address=132x1673139

Freakin' hypocritical pandering political hacks!

[stray cat]

3. Repubs will frame themselves as protecting the disabled

-the protectors of those who can't fight for themselves. They are experts at taking a good democratic value and turning it all upside down.

[Media_Lies_Daily]

21. The GOP wants to take care of all of the disabled...except those....

...that have been wounded in the Middle East.

[salin]

4. Did you see the press conference?

Made a very strong case that this wasn't about being the party of death. The easiest defense is Bush's own action in Texas - listing those who died as a result of removing feeding tubes as decided by hospitals OVER the objections of families - and then on this one and only this single case taking action.

[Jack Rabbit]

6. They'll say that anyway

In their little moral unverse, abortion is murder but the deaths of 100,000 Iraqis in order to open Iraq's markets to foreign domination is liberation.

I have a 93-year-old father who does not want extraordinary means used to keep him alive if that's all they can do for him. This is about his right to have that wish honored and not have Randall Terry, Tom DeLay, G. W. Bush or some similarly minded jack ass stick his ugly snout where it doesn't belong.

Yes, the verbal abuse they will heap on us is worth it me.

[saracat]

7. We have used that argument so much we have become the other side and

no one will vote for us because they can vote for the real thing. I am pleased that at least some Democrats are willing to protest governmenta intervention in our personal lives. Gee! wouldn't you think that would be a Republican stance?

[Crandor]

8. Terri doesn't want your "help"

She said before she wouldn't want to be kept alive like this. Michael respects her enough to stand up for that, but folks like Delay want to play God and keep corpses "alive" forever.

[skjpm]

18. OK, and good luck when your Congress candidate

is shown Terri's last breath during the debate, and the little old lady in the town meeting asks, "How could you support letting this woman die?" How can this party have such a tin ear to what really moves people to vote? With the Schiavo video under one arm and 9/11 under the other, the Repugs can get rid of social security, block health insurance, and write checks directly to corporations. Let's just give them the keys to the government until they get tired of runnning it, shall we?

[Media_Lies_Daily]

25. Based on the tone of your posts, I think that....

...the GOP-controlled Congress is more YOUR Congress than it is the Congress of Democrats.

Nobody's buying your bull...take a hike.

[skjpm]

32. Not taking a hike--want to save the party

The Democrats are going to lose big on this one, and I'd like to go on record saying that we have bigger issues to worry about. If we ever want any kind of power again, we're going to have to suck up and grandstand this one side-by-side with the Repugs. It won't be pretty, but if you ever want universal health care, you'll see my point.

[alcuno]

40. It's disgusting that so many make this political. 87% of adults DON'T

want to be kept in this condition. Republicans could very well turn around and have this bite them in the ass. My VERY Catholic family knows well that the Church does not believe in extreme measures and the majority thinks she should be left alone to die in peace.

If doing the right thing means a backlash, so be it.

[Cha]

35. She's already "dead"..

And you are a "chicken little" with the "sky is falling..the sky is falling"..

"How do you know that the sky is falling, Chicken Little?" asked Ducky Daddles.

"I saw it with my eyes, I heard it with my ears, and a bit of it fell on my head," said Chicken Little"

http://www.rickwalton.com/funstuff/skyfall.htm

[gollygee]

She wasn't abandoned by her husband

He is still trying to do what's best for her. He has *not* abandoned her!

[iamjoy]

9. Wedge Issue

Can't we see that Terri Schiavo is a wedge issue - like gay marriage and abortion?

As for "letting her die" - it is in the framing, we are in favor of letting individuals make decisions for their health care/end of life care. (Several medical professionals have determined that there is no brain function. Michael Schiavo states Terri would not want to be maintainted like this. Several lower courts have agreed.)

And yes, we could make an issue of the fact that taxpayers are largely paying for Terri's care, and the Republicans now fighting for her life are also trying to cut Medicaid funding

[bigtree]

10. Let's stand next to her bed and say

we're here to protect our political viability??? :eyes:

Pathetic!

[Avalux]

11. Calm down

Terry Shiavo's cerebral cortex is gone; she has been dead for 15 years and kept alive by artificial means - rehabilitation is not possible. Those are the facts and I refuse to allow hysteria to win out; I refuse to side with those who have allowed ignorance to replace reason.

My argument to all fundie Christians - keeping Terry Shiavo alive artificially goes agains the will of God and is cruel. She should be allowed to go be with him in peace.

It may very well be the repugs have overplayed their hand on this one. I don't think the majority of Americans are on board.

[seabeyond]

12. theres the one calling dems the party of death, yup

just wrote about you in another post. you want to create us as that. you arent looking at this except your own narrow little view and you want us to all suck up this fuckin party of death shit. you dont know me. you dont know about everyone on this board. you are mischaracterizing it and totally doing the emotional hype and telling us to buy it.

this crap pisses me off the most. dont make me the person responsible for teri's life or death, it is the court who made this decision.

you you, lol lol this grosses me out

[killbotfactory]

13. So you believe...

That the democrats should be for forcing medical treatment on people who don't want it if they thought it would prolong their life?

I don't.

[mikehiggins]

14. Nonsense

Don't we hear people on this board constantly saying we can't win by just becoming more like the GOP? What Delay and the others are doing is criminal, and unconstitutional. Should we hop on that bandwagon so nobody could criticise us in the future?

Pally, in a year nobody is going to give a rat's ass about this case except her immediate family. Right now there is a media supported hysteria in place (Congress to ACT! Dubya to fly in to sign bill!) that will most likely run aground as soon as the bill is passed and signed and then someone wants to bring a case before a federal judge on a matter the Supreme Court has ALREADY declined to address.

This is political whoredom at its worst, and if you think THAT is a good tactic to follow, perhaps you should find another party to attend. The party I belong to is not going to be stampeded into kissing Tom Delay's ass just because the press tells us to.

[thebigidea]

15. I'd prefer to be branded as the party that wants to kill adorable kittens

I hereby nominate Cobra Commander as the '08 candidate.



This ticket has real possibilities - the pro-Death image will counter the weak-on-defense perceptions.

But will we be weakened by the ability to be dispatched by a simple judo chop?

[nothingshocksmeanymore]

39. GAWD I love it when you post!

[Media_Lies_Daily]

16. Right. Meanwhile, the GOP is responsible for the deaths of tens of....

...thousands...probably hundreds of thousands...of deaths in the Middle East, and want to add still more by threatening Syria and Iran.

How about YOU stand wherever you want, and quit trying to preach to us about what we should or shouldn't be doing?

Have you ever had to personally deal with this kind of situation? I doubt that you would be so seriously gung-ho if you had.

By the way, where did you get the idea that he had abandoned Terri? Are you trying to tell us that you believe what's being published by the rightwing mainstream media?

[Mr_Spock]

17. Go way - stop trying to control the arguement here - who the heck

do you think you are? "IGNORE" button for you.

[skjpm]

23. Of course it's a friggin' wedge issue! And it's working!

Don't you get it? The Repugs are the masters of wedge issues, and this one is absolutely brilliant, and it's going to work, and we're going to let our party go down the tubes because we can't find the guts to grandstand right back in their faces. Once again--Paris is worth a mass.

[nothingshocksmeanymore]

37. I'd rather lose and let a dead woman die than parade a corpse through

the streets...that's what barbarians do.

[Az]

19. She is dead in any meaningful way already

The person she was is gone. Forever. Prayers and medicine will never bring her back. What is left behind is a preserved tradgedy. It is a mockery of who she was and will not let her family heal. People need to grieve and mourn the loss of a loved one. As long as medical technology and the law force her corpse to remain preserved and seemingly alive their pain will continue.

She will never talk again. She will never love again. She will never dance again. She will never reach out to someone in need again. Everything she was is dead. Let her go and give her family the closure they so desperately need. Clinging to a breathing corpse is despicable. There is no person present in that body. Its just wires and circuits keeping her body alive. Have some freaking mercy.

[Avalux]

20. HEY - where'd you go?

Another hit and run, apparently. :eyes:

[skjpm]

26. Right here. n/t

[Tierra_y_Libertad]

22. Sounds like the same thinking that caused Dems to back McCarthy.

We sure wouldn't want to upset the fascists.

[Quixote1818]

27. Bull Shit! Polls say otherwise.

Most said they want Congress to stay the fuck out of this and 90% of people would not want to stay alive in Terri's condition.

[merh]

28. The Democratic Party is the party of the Constitution and

respects states rights versus federalism!

What is your problem - when has the federal government every had the right to interfere with a state matter that is a family issue? Next will they tell us who we can marry and/or divorce?

The Schiavo case is no longer about the woman, it is about Congress interfering in the operations of the states. Florida law was followed, Florida Courts decided and the federal government has no authority to interfere with the action or to pass this resolution.

This is state's rights versus the federal government and is an example of the members of congress violating their sworn oaths to protect and follow the Constitution. Bills of Attainders are illegal and acts of legislation aimed at individuals, generally for the purpose of punishing an individual without a trial, are bills of attainders.

In this case though, a special piece of legislation has been crafted solely to federalize the case of Terry Schiavo, trumping state sovereignty and the 10th amendment. Thus the members of Congress that vote for this resolution are violating their oaths of office and are not upholding and protecting the Constitution.

Additionally, the GOP's has been on the band wagon complaining that the judiciary is in effect legislating from the bench, but with this resolution they will be guilty of “Legislative Adjudication” usurping the rulings of the Florida State Court that followed the Florida State Laws.

You can use this site and change the message of the email to voice your concerns that Congress has decided that the Constitution is not important.
http://go.sojo.net/campaign/morally_bankrupt_budget/step1.tcl

Or use this site: http://www.59millionstrong.com/

Call your senators and representative now!
Call Congress at [phone] or use this number (if it still works)
1-877-SOB-U-SOB (1-877-762-8762)

"The powers not delegated to the United States by the Constitution, nor prohibited by it to the States, are reserved to the States respectively, or to the people." --10th Amendment to the Constitution of the United States

Bill of Attainder

Definition: A legislative act that singles out an individual or group for punishment without a trial.

The Constitution of the United States, Article I, Section 9, paragraph 3 provides that: "No Bill of Attainder or ex post facto Law will be passed."

"The Bill of Attainder Clause was intended not as a narrow, technical (and therefore soon to be outmoded) prohibition, but rather as an implementation of the separation of powers, a general safeguard against legislative exercise of the judicial function or more simply - trial by legislature." U.S. v. Brown, 381 U.S. 437, 440 (1965).

"These clauses of the Constitution are not of the broad, general nature of the Due Process Clause, but refer to rather precise legal terms which had a meaning under English law at the time the Constitution was adopted. A bill of attainder was a legislative act that singled out one or more persons and imposed punishment on them, without benefit of trial. Such actions were regarded as odious by the framers of the Constitution because it was the traditional role of a court, judging an individual case, to impose punishment." William H. Rehnquist, The Supreme Court, page 166.

"Bills of attainder, ex post facto laws, and laws impairing the obligations of contracts, are contrary to the first principles of the social compact, and to every principle of sound legislation. ... The sober people of America are weary of the fluctuating policy which has directed the public councils. They have seen with regret and indignation that sudden changes and legislative interferences, in cases affecting personal rights, become jobs in the hands of enterprising and influential speculators, and snares to the more-industrious and less-informed part of the community." James Madison, Federalist Number 44, 1788.

Supreme Court cases construing the Bill of Attainder clause include:

* Ex Parte Garland, 4 Wallace 333 (1866).
* Cummings v. Missouri, 4 Wallace 277 (1866).
* U.S. v. Brown, 381 U.S. 437 (1965).
* Nixon v. Administrator of General Services, 433 U.S.425 (1977).
* Selective Service Administration v. Minnesota PIRG, 468 U.S. 841 (1984).

http://www.techlawjournal.com/glossary/legal/attainder.htm

This is not about Schiavo - this is about the Constitution and the continuing efforts of the repukes to violate the Constitution and to erode our rights and the rights of the states.

You should be upset about that, imho!



.

[Dookus]

29. You're wrong

we should be making the point that we are the party of individual rights.

You think we should support this blatantly unconstitutional power grab for fear of being called names by right-to-lifers? That's silly.

[charlie]

31. C'mon, don't be disingenuous

These political concerns are secondary to you, admit it. If it was poll-tested solid that allowing Schiavo to die was a winner and opposition a loser, you wouldn't have posted this.

[Az]

33. We are the party of doing the right thing

Even if it hurts. That body is a mockery of the person she used to be. It is a shackle keeping her family from dealing with the grief of their loss. Let her go.

[nothingshocksmeanymore]

34. Here's a copy of the first thread you ever started

http://www.democraticunderground.com/cgi-bin/duforum/duboard.cgi?az=show_thread&om=39245&forum=DCForumID60&archive=

Some things never change

[skjpm]

38. Wow! You don't like me, you really really don't like me!

I'm hurt. And oddly, I still think I'm right.

If this message gets deleted, I'd like to know why the posts attacking me don't get deleted.

[Horse with no Name]

36. Lose the hysterics

To start with, there won't be any pictures or videos of this for the morbidly curious. This has been banned long ago.
Also, a very small minority of people who have life support withdrawn "convulse" nor do they cry. The ones that do generally do so because they have underlying seizure disorders and they have not had their medications because that is also included in the withdrawal of life support.
Most simply just peacefully go out of this world, generally with their loved ones at their side.
It doesn't HAVE to be this ugly, yet it is is.
Some people do hang on inordinately long and it is harder on the healthcare workers than it is on them, and personally, I don't like having to be the nurse that does this. I did have one patient suffer from morphine toxicity, but that was solved by backing off of the morphine.
Everyone deserves to have their wishes adhered to and that is the crux of this matter.
I, along with most, don't look at this as killing her, but carrying out her final wishes.
If her final wishes were to vegetate in a nursing home with bedsores and nasty oral hygiene while shitting in her diaper...then our position would be to uphold those wishes as well.
I don't think this case is going to make Democrats start trolling around nursing homes for other potential victims to kill off.

[Moderator]

41. Inflammatory headline

And you can go to this thread:

http://www.democraticunderground.com/discuss/duboard.php?az=show_topic&forum=104&topic_id=3302186