Biggest Myth On Schiavo Case That Everyone Keeps Repeating

[Quixote1818]

Myth - Michael Schiavo made the decision for Terri that she would want to die and Michael could at any time hand that power over to her parents. This is false! The trial court became the surrogate decision-maker in this case.



Question - Why did Terri’s husband get to make the decision about whether she should live or die?

Michael Schiavo did not make the decision to discontinue life-prolonging measures for Terri.

As Terri's husband, Michael has been her guardian and her surrogate decision-maker. By 1998, though -- eight years after the trauma that produced Terri's situation -- Michael and Terri's parents disagreed over the proper course for her.

Rather than make the decision himself, Michael followed a procedure permitted by Florida courts by which a surrogate such as Michael can petition a court, asking the court to act as the ward's surrogate and determine what the ward would decide to do. Michael did this, and based on statements Terri made to him and others, he took the position that Terri would not wish to continue life-prolonging measures. The Schindlers took the position that Terri would continue life-prolonging measures. Under this procedure, the trial court becomes the surrogate decision-maker, and that is what happened in this case.

The trial court in this case held a trial on the dispute. Both sides were given opportunities to present their views and the evidence supporting those views. Afterwords, the trial court determined that, even applying the "clear and convincing evidence" standard -- the highest burden of proof used in civil cases -- the evidence showed that Terri would not wish to continue life-prolonging measures.

Recently, Michael received an offer of $1 million, and perhaps a second offer of $10 million, to walk away from this case and permit Terri's parents to care for her. These offers, assuming there were two, were based on a misunderstanding of the situation here. Michael lacks the power to undo the court order determining Terri's wishes and requiring the removal of her feeding tube. He did not make the decision and cannot unmake it. The court made the decision on Terri's behalf. Nonetheless, Michael apparently rejected each offer.

http://abstractappeal.com/schiavo/infopage.html

[Mr_Spock]

1. Interesting

Why would the facts of this case have anything to do with any of the discussion here on DU or elsewhere? lol :eyes:

[OldLeftieLawyer]

2. Bless you

I've been continually astonished at the lack of knowledge people have, even as they spout off anti-Michael Schiavo slander.

Thank you for putting up this very basic, and intrinsically central, fact of the matter.

Clarity - in all things.

[Quixote1818]

26. That is a hell of a complement coming from a lawyer on a law issue

You are most welcome.

[Frances]

3. Thanks for the informative post

nt

[BlueManDude]

4. but I heard on CNN that Michael Shiavo wants to kill her?

you mean we haven't been given all the facts?

[Quixote1818]

8. Isn't it JUST MADENING!!!! I have heard that even here on DU!

You would think the FUCKING MEDIA WOULD TAKE A FEW MINUTES TO GET THE FACTS BEFORE THEY START ATTACKING PEOPLE!!!!!:mad: :argh:

[BlueManDude]

10. the coverage has been astoundingly bad n/t

[Quixote1818]

11. It's clear the media doesn't want the facts out they want a soap opera

that everyone will tune into.

[K-W]

13. I dont think the facts ever entered into thier thinking.

I think with alot of the right wing attacks in the media lately it has become fairly obvious that they just take marching orders.

[Quixote1818]

15. Exactly, we already know they had a talking points memo on how

to politicize this to hurt Democrats. Many people here on DU say the Schaivo case is not important but the Bull Shit being pulled in this case by Republicans is precisely what is wrong with our government and media. On every level this is an outrage! From the lack of facts given to the public and character assination of Michael Schaivo to the Republicans creating a circus out of this to the talking points to the Fucking Congress overstepping their authority and making a travesty of our legal system. :argh:

[IndianaGreen]

21. Michael Schiavo had all of Terri's cats put to sleep

that puts him in the same category as Bill Frist.

Michael Schiavo does have another family, yet refuses to divorce Terri (or marry his girlfriend), preferring instead to have her die by court edict. Something does not compute about this man, and I won't have him as an icon of liberalism.

http://news.findlaw.com/legalnews/lit/schiavo/index.html#docs

http://www.syndicatednews.net/

[Quixote1818]

23. Even if he did divorce Terri it would NOT change the courts decision

Did it ever occur to you that perhaps he feels a responsibility to Terri and that is why he has not divorced her?

[OldLeftieLawyer]

28. Perhaps he took his promise seriously?

What could he be? A man who honors his wife's wishes?

What a shock.

That's how simple this matter is. The parents have completely fucked it up and taken the spotlight off the central issue.

He is her legal guardian - they've tried for years to remove him and they've failed because it's consistently been determined that he is the person with the patient's best interests.

What is wrong with these people who are so quick to condemn him for living his life, all the while standing by his promise to his wife?

So much for compassion. I foolishly expect better from DUers.

[Quixote1818]

29. From everything the court determined Michael was a wonderful husband

everything else is rumor and lies and it's about got me ready to go off the deep end!

Your post was spot on.

[OldLeftieLawyer]

31. Thanks - you know what gets me?

How these so-called "Christians" have no problem lying and slandering and, in general, committing all sorts of since, simply to advance their political agenda.

No wonder they're so afraid of death.

[mondo joe]

32. Because they are righteous they can lie to serve any purpose because

they are, by definition, good, so anything they do is, by definition, good.

Or so they think.

[OldLeftieLawyer]

33. See..........

this is where I think we're long overdue for another edition of the Inquisition.

[Mabus]

42. You got it.

I've felt if he didn't love her he would just walk away and let her family continue with their misguided quest. He waited, what 8 years, before he tried to get the tube removed.

I've also felt that if the family had given her just a portion of the support and attention while she was alive that they have given to keep her alive they might have intervened in her bulimia problems. As it is, her family was in denial then and they are in denial now. Rather than recognize their self-denial and take responsibility for their failure to help Terri when she was alive they are taking out their anger/helplessness on her husband.

[OldLeftieLawyer]

27. Crucify him for euthanizing cats?

That's good - condemn a man you don't know personally for being loyal to his wife and fighting for her all these years, at the same time having very human needs and wants and desires.

What doesn't compute? His loyalty? His devotion? His strength of character?

His humanity?

[LiberalFighter]

37. I haven't seen anything of the sort about the cats except from RW tabloids

How old were the cats?
What type of condition were the cats in?
How many cats?
When were the cats adopted?
What are the sources of the story?
Who investigated the data?

[mondo joe]

40. Who cares? No matter what it proves he's a MURDERER. Or something.

Or something like that.

Sorry.

I hate to see these liars posting crap about Michael Schiavo who has been a true hero.

[TrustingDog]

5. thanks Q,...

I'm not sure what to make of all this, (the only thing Clear As A Bell to me is that the fucking feds should have No Fucking say in matters such as these and those fucking lies put out fucking false and twisted information on their fucking media megaphones and sometimes even the smarters DUers get fucking sucked in) but what I've learned, to my great disappointment, is that there are so many Freeping DUers here, or are they DUing Freepers, not sure.

sorry for the mild language. I'm just so enraged that we get so easily MisLed here on the exact issues that Bush wants most profiled. bah.

[CoolOnion]

12. I'm outraged, too.

If my body was in the state Terri's is in, I would NOT want Tom DeLay or some right-wing Freeper making decisions for me. I would not want to be the poster child for their "pro-life-but-to-hell-with-quality-of-life" agenda.

Whatever happened to conservatives who want the government out of our lives? Does that only apply to social programs? Aside from Welfare, Social Security and a health care plan, they want the government to micro-manage every facet of our lives.

[Cha]

6. I, too, have been amazed at all

the faux talking points here on DU. That have nothing to do with the reality of the case.

[janx]

20. This topic really brings out the closet right-wingers--

as well as the innocently misinformed. But I keep asking these people where they're getting their information, and they won't answer.

[The Doctor.]

7. Thank you for posting this.

I'd love to ask the folks who think he wants her to die why he would turn down the million.

BTW- do you have any documentation or sources for that tidbit?

I'd like to be able to reference something.

[Quixote1818]

9. Read furthur down on origional post and also look at link.

It goes into that.

[Tierra_y_Libertad]

14. Oh, oh, but sentimental soap opera sells so much better than facts.

Kinda like waving the flag and singing "God Bless America" when sending the troops to kill and die for nothing.

[UTUSN]

16. Dave WELDON (Scoundrel- Florida) Is Lying His Ass off on C-SPAN

Says Terri SCHIAVO is "RESPONSIVE...EMOTES".

Followed by an A-Hole, Christopher SMITH, who is claiming that she "can respond, can SWALLOW, can follow COMMANDS. She's not a candidate for DEATH BY STARVATION."

How're these for MYTHS?

**********QUOTE*********
http://story.news.yahoo.com/news?tmpl=story&cid=2270&ncid=2270&e=2&u=/krwashbureau/20050319/ts_krwashbureau/_bc_braindamagedwoman_guardian_wa

.... Wolfson was appointed by a Florida court in the fall of 2003 to be Schiavo's guardian ad litem, or guardian at law, to deduce Schiavo's best interests and represent neither her husband nor her parents but Terri Schiavo herself.

This makes Wolfson one of the very few people to have spent extended time with Schiavo and gauged her level of awareness without having a vested interest at stake.

In the end, after long hours at Schiavo's bedside and after poring over 30,000 pages of legal documents, Wolfson concluded that Schiavo was indeed in a permanent vegetative state. ....

But Schiavo never made eye contact. When Wolfson visited her when her parents were there, she never made eye contact with them either, he said. And for all of Wolfson's pleadings and coaxing, he never got what he most wanted: a sign. ....

Wolfson was dismayed to learn Friday that Barbara Weller, an attorney for the Schindlers, claimed that Schiavo tried to speak. "Terri does not speak," he said. "To claim otherwise reduces her to a fiction." ....

********UNQUOTE*******

[Quixote1818]

18. Oh that mother fucker! Media Lies just infuriate me!

That eye contact thing is such crap. They took like 15 hours of video of her then put a balloon in front of her face. Her eyes were all over the place randomly looking in many directions then for like two seconds it appeared as though she was actually following the balloon. They cut out hours of footage and then use the two seconds where she looks in the direction of the balloon then of course the news programs use that two seconds in their clips over and over and over!

[Inland]

17. Bears repeating; this is what Terry wanted. nt

[Quixote1818]

22. That is certainly what six state courts determined. nt

[Quixote1818]

30. And that is really ALL that matters period! nt

[merh]

19. Contact your congress critters and tell them that they should

not violate their oaths of office. They are obligated to follow the constitution and this resolution would violate the constitution.

The Schiavo case is no longer about the woman, it is about Congress interfering in the operations of the states. Florida law was followed, Florida Courts decided and the federal government has no authority to interfere with the action or to pass this resolution.

This is state's rights versus the federal government and is an example of the members of congress violating their sworn oaths to protect and follow the Constitution. Bills of Attainders are illegal and acts of legislation aimed at individuals, generally for the purpose of punishing an individual without a trial, are bills of attainders.

In this case though, a special piece of legislation has been crafted solely to federalize the case of Terry Schiavo, trumping state sovereignty and the 10th amendment. Thus the members of Congress that vote for this resolution are violating their oaths of office and are not upholding and protecting the Constitution.

Additionally, the GOP's has been on the band wagon complaining that the judiciary is in effect legislating from the bench, but with this resolution they will be guilty of “Legislative Adjudication” usurping the rulings of the Florida State Court that followed the Florida State Laws.

You can use this site and change the message of the email to voice your concerns that Congress has decided that the Constitution is not important.
http://go.sojo.net/campaign/morally_bankrupt_budget/step1.tcl

Or use this site: http://www.59millionstrong.com/

Call your senators and representative now!
Call Congress at [phone] or use this number (if it still works)
1-877-SOB-U-SOB (1-877-762-8762)

"The powers not delegated to the United States by the Constitution, nor prohibited by it to the States, are reserved to the States respectively, or to the people." --10th Amendment to the Constitution of the United States

Bill of Attainder

Definition: A legislative act that singles out an individual or group for punishment without a trial.

The Constitution of the United States, Article I, Section 9, paragraph 3 provides that: "No Bill of Attainder or ex post facto Law will be passed."

"The Bill of Attainder Clause was intended not as a narrow, technical (and therefore soon to be outmoded) prohibition, but rather as an implementation of the separation of powers, a general safeguard against legislative exercise of the judicial function or more simply - trial by legislature." U.S. v. Brown, 381 U.S. 437, 440 (1965).

"These clauses of the Constitution are not of the broad, general nature of the Due Process Clause, but refer to rather precise legal terms which had a meaning under English law at the time the Constitution was adopted. A bill of attainder was a legislative act that singled out one or more persons and imposed punishment on them, without benefit of trial. Such actions were regarded as odious by the framers of the Constitution because it was the traditional role of a court, judging an individual case, to impose punishment." William H. Rehnquist, The Supreme Court, page 166.

"Bills of attainder, ex post facto laws, and laws impairing the obligations of contracts, are contrary to the first principles of the social compact, and to every principle of sound legislation. ... The sober people of America are weary of the fluctuating policy which has directed the public councils. They have seen with regret and indignation that sudden changes and legislative interferences, in cases affecting personal rights, become jobs in the hands of enterprising and influential speculators, and snares to the more-industrious and less-informed part of the community." James Madison, Federalist Number 44, 1788.

Supreme Court cases construing the Bill of Attainder clause include:

* Ex Parte Garland, 4 Wallace 333 (1866).
* Cummings v. Missouri, 4 Wallace 277 (1866).
* U.S. v. Brown, 381 U.S. 437 (1965).
* Nixon v. Administrator of General Services, 433 U.S.425 (1977).
* Selective Service Administration v. Minnesota PIRG, 468 U.S. 841 (1984).

http://www.techlawjournal.com/glossary/legal/attainder.htm

This is not about Schiavo - this is about the Constitution and the continuing efforts of the repukes to violate the Constitution and to erode our rights and the rights of the states.

You should be upset about that, imho!


.

[housewolf]

24. Thank you SOOOOO much for posting this...

I've been avoiding the issue as much as possible because there's been just TOOOOOO much emotional partisan pleading on both sides of the issue and the facts of the case have gotten lost.

This site is like a breath of fresh air, an opportunity to stop, take a breath and read the facts of the case. I learned a lot of things that I didn't know about the case.

THANK YOU!

[Quixote1818]

25. You are welcome!

I just got attacked for posting several threads like this. I took an interest in this case because I saw so much inaccurate information in the news and even on DU. I simply felt a need to get the ACTUAL facts out! I hate seeing lies being reported as truth. It drives me nuts!

[phylny]

39. I'm surprised there hasn't been a "terra" warning yet.

Anyone wanna bet when that'll come?

;)

[Bunny]

34. Anyone who truly wants to learn the truth about this case can

find it - I did.

When this story first broke, I was fully in support of the parents, and quite willing to blame Michael for all sorts of things, from benign neglect to possibly causing her condition. If he didn't want her anymore, why not just divorce her and let her parents have her? He only wants her dead so he can get his hands on her money.

It was only after reading the available information on the net, from unbiased sources, that I've done a 180 and believe the complete opposite now. Terri is gone. Her husband is trying to fulfill what the courts determined her wishes to be. Her parents are nuts.

Our Congress in committing an unprecedented outrage - what they have done is astounding.

[Quixote1818]

36. And to think Bush is going to sign this bill without even looking at the

case. Now that is an informed opinion for you.

[Bunny]

38. It truly is frightening. What about Bill Frist, an MD, who

was miraculously able to diagnose her via videotape?

How can so many people be so willfully ignorant? It doesn't take much to get actual facts.

[Maddy McCall]

35. This sounds like "guardian ad litem" procedure that is used in...

many cases involving children.

[William Bloode]

41. I was unaware of this or only partially aware.

But then again i have been avoiding it for the most part. I am not an educated man, i have no insight to the working of the human brain etc. All i know is it is a terrible shame that repukes have polarized this issue and politicized it. Of course folks on Du have discussed it at length, but i never really heard much on the issue from Democrats. The pukes now, boy have they really grabbed on with both hands......gonna hurt 'em in the end i think.

My personal opinion is if the courts ruled she wish not to be kept alive then so be it, my opinion on the matter does not matter. The government(nor anyone else) has no place in this.