How do we feel about the "sanctity of life," or do we care at all?

[IndianaGreen]

I am often challenged by the commitment of groups such as Pax Christi to the sanctity of life. They marched against Bush when he visited South Bend, they oppose the war in Iraq, they oppose the death penalty, they are appalled about the poverty and social injustice in this country and in the world, and they also oppose abortion and euthanasia. Theirs is the pure pro-life position.

How do we feel about the "sanctity of life," or do we care at all?

Here is something that Pax Christi put out a year ago:

The Catholic Church teaches that ALL life is sacred. A candidate for office must understand that the Church stands against any policy or course of action which diminishes life, dignity, or the rights of the human person: abortion, capital punishment, war, scandalous poverty, denial of healthcare, mistreatment of immigrants and racism, to name but a few. All are essential issues to a “pro-life ” voter.

For over 30 years, Pax Christi USA has raised the immorality and injustice of modern warfare as a serious affront to our Church’s proclamation of the sanctity of life. Over the past two years we have seen nearly 900 U.S. military and over 15,000 innocent Iraqi civilians killed in what Pope John Paul II repeatedly stated was an unjust and unnecessary war. Contrary to words used in political speeches, a commitment to the sanctity of life must be judged by the actions taken to defend and promote life in ALL its forms. War is a defeat for the culture of life and political leaders that bring about or perpetuate war sin against God and humanity and cannot be considered in any sense of the word, “pro-life.”

http://www.paxchristiusa.org/signon.pdf

[mitchtv]

1. I follow the Catholic teaching

of The primacy of conscience. I find it hard to be more than ambivalent about the death penalty.I draw a distinction between assisted suicide and euthanasia.I am not a pacifist so therefore ther is a time for war, also.

[crispini]

2. If by "we" you mean Democrats, and/or DU,

I'm pretty sure there is no consensus position. :shrug: I think you could probably find some people on here who agree with the Pax Christi position 100%, and some that don't.

[IndianaGreen]

3. By "we" I meant DUers and Democrats in general

I am speaking of the moral and ethical aspects of this issue.

[crispini]

6. Well, IMO there's not going to be any consensus

about this either in the DP or on DU. Because when you start talking morality and ethics you invariably drag in religion -- your OP did -- and there are a lot of different takes on these issues even among the various strains of Christianity, not to mention the atheists, other non-Christian religions, etc. And, it's a big tent... so, very little consensus.

edited to add: and "sanctity of life" is being co opted by the Rethugs, unfortunately -- you hear chimpy use it all the time, and he sure don't apply it to Iraqnam....

[IndianaGreen]

7. I am Jewish, and I think that we must protect and enhance life

Now, to inject some political reality in here, I think that those decisions involving abortion, and a dying loved one, are best handled by the families, not by the State.

The State does have a legitimate role to play. The State can provide for free health care for expectant mothers to prevent abortions due to poverty (this is very common). The State can provide free programs of family planning and contraception, as well as teaching parental responsibility to both sexes in the public schools. The State can provide free health care and education for the child after he/she is born. The parents should get free day care so that they can work if they so choose. Parents that choose to remain at home to raise their children, should be compensated for such work.

The State also has an obligation to eliminate poverty and provide a living wage. A job is a human right!

There are many things that we can do to enhance life!

[crispini]

11. Sounds good to me, I'll agree with most of that.

I'd have to think about paying parents to raise their kids, though, and about the 100% free day care. Especially if people CHOOSE to have kids, I think they should bear *some* of the expenses.

And, the whole thing WRT decisions best handled by the family -- sadly, in the Schiavo case the family doesn't agree. Those things kind of wind up in the state by default, unfortunately. But the whole current situation has been allowed (encouraged?) to get incredibly out of hand.

[cynatnite]

13. I didn't choose to have my last one

I think you'll find a lot of women didn't choose to be pregnant, but did. My son wasn't supposed to happen. I wasn't supposed to be able to have any more children, but hey, it happened anyway.

I don't know about paying parent's to raise their kids either, but the day care I would like to entertain that idea...both ideas are whole different debate that I think I would need to know more specific information on before I could be on one side or the other.

The Schiavo fiasco should never have gotten as far as it has. Best handled by her husband.

[Greybnk48]

4. The sanctity of life argument grants rights to anything that has

human DNA. This argument, therefore, grants rights to cancer cells in a petri dish. I know this conclusion is ridiculous, but that is, in fact the logical conclusion to that argument. If i scratch my arm, the tissue under my finger nails has a "right to life." People need to educate themselves. What do we mean by "life" and most importantly for the issue today, what's the difference between a coma and a persistent vegetative state. What does it mean for the patient to no longer have higher brain function? What is her prognosis? Please read about it--everyone.

[Walt Starr]

5. I support the Death Penalty, I am pro-choice on reproduction

and I am pro-choice on choosing the time of your own death.

[sandnsea]

8. Sacrilege

Lord, make me an instrument of Thy Peace!
Where there is hatred, let me sow love;
Where there is injury, pardon;
Where there is discord, harmony;
Where there is doubt, faith;
Where there is despair, hope;
Where there is darkness, light, and
Where there is sorrow, joy.
Oh Divine Master, grant that I may not
so much seek to be consoled as to console;
to be understood as to understand;
to be loved as to love;
for it is in giving that we receive;
It is in pardoning that we are pardoned;
and IT IS IN DYING THAT WE ARE BORN TO ETERNAL LIFE.

There is nothing in this about impeding death for our own selfish desires. It is not Catholic and I don't care how nutty how many Catholics, including the Pope, get over removing life support from the dead. There is still nothing Catholic about keeping corpses alive just because we can.

[Dookus]

9. no

not all life is sacred. To treat it as such would be paralyzing.

I pulled weeds in my garden today - did I destroy the sanctity of life?

The right to determine our own destinies can come into conflict with any so-called sanctity of life. In that case, personal control takes precedence.

"Sanctity of life" is just a slogan, and slogans aren't that useful when they hit real life.

[Az]

10. I care about individuals

Life? Life is a trick. There is a lot of confusion about life. Life is a distraction. Its actually very common. Life that is. Life isn't what we are concerned about. We lose enough "life" on a daily basis to build a copy of ourself in seven years.

Cancer is life out of control. Its life but it destroys the particular balance of life we like. Bacteria and disease are life but not the life we favor.

See here is the thing. Its not just life that we are concerned about. Its particular arraingments of life. A clump of human cells are alive and human. But they are not a human being. What we value are coherant forms of life working together to create identities. It is more than just life.

We have biases for certain forms of life that we favor. We would like to believe that our life is special but it is only our bias that deems this so. The ants and the bears would hardly miss us should we vanish from this earth. Life would continue. Life is just doing its thing and some of those things happen to be things we have come to like.

[Lexingtonian]

12. it's an idolatry

Material life as a good higher than any other moral value amounts to an idolatry.

[Tierra_y_Libertad]

14. It is a question of values.

While I may agree with most of the stances taken by Pax Christi, I disagree on others according to my values.

As for the "value of life", that enters into a philosophical argument(s) that can lead almost anywhere. Does one value the life of an embryo over the life of the mother? Is life itself just a happenstance of chemical reactions? Is the life of a mosquito or pine tree as valuable or important as that of a raccoon or a human? Is life eternal? Is life an illusion?

The questions are endless and the values ascribed to the answers end up as personal.

I believe that we can only muddle on through and try not to bump into too many things and hopefully try not to do too much damage while acting in a way that helps. But, those are my values.

[LynnTheDem]

15. I think IRAQ pretty much sums up the US majority's true opinion of

"sanctity of life".

[jdots]

16. may i ask you all a question ?

Have you had a loved one die ?

[Malva Zebrina]

17. I care about women

and women's rights. Pax Christi ignores modern day science, and seeks to subject women to the status of being a sinner who does not abide by their definition of the "sanctity " of life. That women are concerned about the sanctity or the preciousness of their own life in this day and age does not seem to count nor does it fit into their theology. This treatise diminishes and tacitly condemns women, but I am not surprised in the least bit. Sometmes, what is left out is more important than the high sounding moral postions about "sanctity of life"


I am glad to have found out that Catholics are the "real" pro-life people different from the fake "pro-life" people though. :eyes:

"culture of life" -- sounds familiar.