Terri Schiavo is as alive as cut flower in a vase

[mondo joe]

Her death has been artificially suspended for 15 years, keeping her body in a zombie like semblance of actual life.

[bonito]

1. I don't know about you but I put water in the vase.

[Pithlet]

3. Even if the flower told you they didn't want you to? n/t

[mondo joe]

4. Forever?

[whistle]

2. And the guilt of Terri Schiavo's parents has also be kept in that...

...artificially suspended animation for 15 years. This has been a travesty.

[mondo joe]

5. I wouldn't be at all surprised to learn she was molested in some way

by one or both of them.

[whistle]

6. Her heart failure came from her anorexia/bulimia illness which

...her parents denied she had and her husband attempted to help her with. This is so very tragic.

[LisaL]

32. How did he attempt to help her with her bulimia?

:eyes:

[Walt Starr]

7. That would be consistent with the bulimia

:shrug:

[mondo joe]

8. And now the shameless creeps continue to try to control her

In a tragic life she did have one lucky break - marrying a man who would go to the mat for her.

[ohio_liberal]

25. Please, more info

I dont know anything about bulimia. Is it a symptom of abuse?

[LisaL]

33. Wouldn't you?

I thought baseless accusations was very much frowned upon on DU.
I guess I was wrong about that.

[mordarlar]

9. I have no desire to argue on the fate of Terri but i have a question

How are people explaining the bone scan which showed she had multiple injuries prior to the collapse?

I have not heard any explanation, other than injury from Michael, yet. It is an important fact concerning his "devotion" to her.

Just curious.

:shrug:

[ashmanonar]

10. that sounds to me like a RW talking point.

something made up to taint the debate.

if there really was something like that, do you think the court would have allowed michael schiavo's custody of her?

[mordarlar]

12. See below...

[ashmanonar]

21. my question still stands:

why didn't the courts take this evidence into consideration? maybe because she was anorexic/bulimic, and probably fell/hurt herself quite a bit? bulimics don't have the perfect blood chemistry either, bruises would stay longer because healing processes go slower in a starving person.

[mordarlar]

24. The Dr. who reviewed the scans testified that they most likely happened

just before she collapsed. He also testified that they were inconsistent with injuries that would have been sustained during a fall, by someone in Terri's condition. When this was introduced into court they were dismissed by judge Greer. To date i have seen no explanation for the dismissal.

[ohio_liberal]

26. How about being thumped on

during CPR?

[mordarlar]

28. Below is from his testimony...

Q I realize you can't assign a cause to

20 these injuries that you picked up in this report.

21 But typically in your experience, what would be the

22 causes of this pattern of abnormality?

23 A In somebody her age, an auto accident is

24 by far the most typical cause.

25 Q Assume that she was not in an auto



1 accident but that she had suffered an anoxic or

2 hypoxic encephalopathy type of injury from a cardiac

3 arrest and had been bedridden for a year at this

4 point. What might account for these abnormalities?

5 A In my knowledge, that type of injury

6 would not account for this pattern of abnormalities.<<<

A I can only say that if they were

24 traumatic that they probably occurred within 18

25 months.



1 Q Is it possible that the abnormalities

2 that you noted on the right femoral diaphysis and

3 metaphysis could have occurred if the patient was

4 standing and suffered a cardiac arrest and fell to

5 the floor?

6 A Probably not. That wouldn't be a typical

7 mechanism of injury that would cause a periosteal

8 bruise. Typically you need a direct blow of some

9 kind. I suppose one could speculate that she fell

10 on a piece of furniture, that that could produce

11 that injury. But just typically falling on the

12 floor would not do that.<<<<

(Michael claims he found her lying face down in the hallway)





http://www.zimp.org/stuff/03%20-%20WalkerDepositionDepo.htm


http://www.terrisfight.org/documents/MotProtOrderWalker111903.pdf

On Nov. 19 Michael Schiavo filed for a protective order to block the discoveries of the bone scan.

[LisaL]

34. I don't think anybody knows how she sustained her injuries.

[mondo joe]

31. Because it was not relevant to determining Terri's wishes

Which was Judge Greer was tasked with doing.

[mordarlar]

36. The determination of Terri's wishes IS DIRECTLY RELATED.

Michael is the one claiming this was her wish.

There was testimony from several sources including an ex girlfriend of his claiming he is potentially dangerous.

EXCERPTS FROM CYNTHIA SHOOK MAY 8, 2001 DEPOSITION
>>>"He came on the floor looking for me several times. I felt it was out of character for him to get a job as an orderly at the hospital That was concerning to me. When he would come up to the floor looking for her she was not scared the first time but later was scared.

In town I would look up when I was driving…not at my work- she would look up in the rear view mirror and there would be Michael Schiavo. I would look up and he would be behind me in traffic. It continued for several months after he didn’t work at the hospital. She would change lanes, try to make a turn and he would do the same. He did this about ten times.

One time he was behind me in traffic he got next to me in a two-lane going the same way, and he changed lanes basically right on top of where I was at, and I had to swerve not to be hit. I had to swerve off the road. Michael ran me off the road. I considered it as stalking, dangerous and guessed potentially life threatening."<<<



Her injuries may relate DIRECTLY to what was or was not her choice.

[riverwalker]

11. the bone scan

could be explained. If she went into cardiac arrest from electrolyte imbalances from vomiting/bulimia (like Karen Carpenter) it would be a gradual process of getting weaker and unsteady, dizzy, lots of falling, seizures, even passing out, until finally her heart stopped. That could explain the injuries, as well as malnutrition from the anorexia affecting her healing process.

[mondo joe]

13. Maybe you should review the court case and history

Rather than casting smears in the form of questions.

[mordarlar]

14. I have reviewed it. This was dismissed.

Edited to add... Perhaps this matter is being taken A LITTLE TOO PERSONALLY.

[mondo joe]

17. And why was it dismissed?

[mordarlar]

19. I don't know mondo joe. The Dr. who reviewed the scans said they were

abnormal and consistent with trauma. Why do you suppose it was dismissed with NO FURTHER INVESTIGATION?

It seems the arguments of many people would be stifled if there were ONE VALID explanation for this. Nows your chance.

[mondo joe]

22. Wait - didn't you say you reviewed the court case?

What did it say?

[mordarlar]

29. Judge Greer's response was this....

"The court concludes that while it might be interesting to pursue the issue of trauma as it may have occurred almost 12 years ago, that has nothing to do with Theresa Marie Schiavo in 2002,"

Yet testimony of medical professionals suggests the injuries are possibly related to the date of her collapse. They also testify that it was unlikely to have occurred from a fall. Most likely very near the event which led to her current state.

Rather than ordering a further investigation Judge Greer dismissed the evidence.

12 years before 2002 would take us to 1990 which is when she collapsed. Yet apparently from the Judges quote he did not feel issues surrounding her collapse RELEVANT.

[mondo joe]

38. Abd don't forget this from Dr Walker's testimony:

23 A We don't attempt to be exhaustive because
24 there is a list of probably 30 or 40 things that
25 could cause abnormal bone scans of this wide nature.
? 30
1 And because the body is very variable, nothing is
2 ever classic, which is why attorneys make such a
3 good living at malpractice, because nothing is ever
4 typical.

[molly]

16. In case you missed my other posts....

Philly columnist changes mind on Terri Schiavo
'Uncomfortable details' lead him to side with her parents
A Philadelphia Inquirer columnist who believes in the "right to die" has changed his mind about the Terri Schiavo case, pointing to "uncomfortable details" about her estranged husband that now lead him to side with the parents of the brain-damaged Florida woman, who are fighting to keep her alive.

snip...

Terri Schiavo suffered severe brain damage in 1990 after collapsing. Michael Schiavo attributes it to a chemical imbalance caused by an eating disorder, but parents Robert and Mary Schindler believe he may have tried to strangle her.

Michael Schiavo contends his wife told him she never would want to be kept alive artificially.

But Grogan points out Terri Schiavo's heart and lungs function on their own, and she requires only a feeding tube that might not be necessary if she were given physical therapy.

The columnist notes Michael Schiavo, as her legal guardian, has forbidden any therapy.

more.....

http://www.worldnetdaily.com/news/article.asp?ARTICLE_ID=43039

[mondo joe]

18. I love quotes from World Net Daily on DU

HAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHA

[molly]

20. Are you following me around DU?

stalking may be a better word....

[mondo joe]

23. I started this thread. If anyone is stalking it's you,

[bigwillq]

15. QUESTION--Who is paying to keep Terri alive?

To me, this makes a big difference as to how I feel about the case.

[dzika]

27. Schiavo Lawyer with indictment of BOTH parties

March 18, 2005 @ 3:45 ET

Video - From CNN Live Feed: Schiavo Lawyer with indictment of BOTH parties - 3/18

Selected video clips from Friday's press conference with Schiavo's lawyer.

Aren't you tired of the right-wing baiting and media manipulation? This is an issue that is win-win for the neocons. They play to their base while at the same time getting the media spotlight (what little there is of it) off of the war protests and the Delay ethics issues.

This entire week has been filled with "take your eye off the ball" political grandstanding while the media ignores the most substantive issues.

This man is clearly frustrated by the Democratic Congress and their refusal to stand up to Republicans. He makes a passionate plea to stop using the Schiavo case as political tool.

If you were frustrated by the Democrat's voting record on ANWAR or the Bankruptcy bill then this lawyer may be saying something that you can identify with.



Video in Real Media format (13 minutes)

[Az]

30. Bad analogy

Her body and most functions are fully functional. There is very real life present within her body. What is gone and destroyed her identity. Her mind no longer exists.

This continues to misunderstand the nature of what is going on. Its not life that we seek to preserve. Cut off the head and connect the body to a machine and its still life. But its not a person.

It is not simply life we seek to save. We could stick a skin cell in a petri dish and it would not mean immortality. What we seek to preserve is the continuing process of activities in our brains. This gives rise to the continuation of our minds. We can stand to lose a limb, an organ, anything except our brains and our identity would continue to exist.

Her mind is gone. Her brain is damaged beyond repair. Life continues to exist within her body. But that which is most important to us is gone.

[Cleita]

35. Extend that thought about the brain.

What is the brain of the plant that created the flower, which is essentially a sex organ? It's the roots. If the plant's roots are gone, sticking the flower into water will keep it fresh for awhile but not alive.

Now plants can be a bad analogy because as all gardeners know, we can propagate plants often without seed by trying to get a branch to root by sticking into a nutrient rich medium, a clone if you will. But you still have to have a root to get it to grow after providing it with the right conditions to grow, water, sun and soil.

The fact is though without its roots a plant will not live and grow, neither will a person when their brains are gone beyond hope of regenerating cells needed to make that person be as you said that individual.

[Az]

37. Its not the roots

A body kept alive by machine can still grow and thrive. Considering what sent her into the coma she may actually be healthier than before. Physically. The body is more life support for the brain than the brain is for the body.