Saw $2.20 a gallon on the way home last night...

[BiggJawn]

Looks like the oil industry is responding to the ANWR vote....

So how long (if ever) before some SUV pilot stares blankly at the sight of 5 hour's pay disappearing down the filler neck and thinks "Ay! I thought this stuff wuz sposed to git cheaper?"

Oh, Well, at least Homos can't marry, and Texas cheerleaders won't be able to shake their bums anymore...Murka is Safe for PNAC!

[SCDem]

1. Yep it's $1.98 here in SC

where the median income is $19,000.

[RebelOne]

2. Averaging $1.97 to $1.98 in No. Georgia in my area.

Median income where I live is about $25,000-$30,000.

[Cooley Hurd]

3. It's $2.25 here in upstate NY...

Two weeks ago, it was $1.95...:(

[sellitman]

4. I want it to be 5 Bucks a gallon

I'd love to see Hummers parked because of high gas prices. I say bring it on Exxon!!!!!

(who I have boycotted since Valdez anyway)

[Cooley Hurd]

7. As much as I appreciate your sentiment...

...unfortunately, the ones who are hurt the most by higher fuel prices are the ones who can't afford it. Hummer drivers will still fill their tanks and drive their monstrosities without abandon.:(

[sellitman]

21. Not from what I hear

Whenever I bring gas prices up to some poor slob who has an SUV all I hear is that they are sorry they got it and if prices go up they will sell it. I see allot of poor folk driving them too. The myth that it's only the wealthy that own them is just that...a myth. I know it may cause some hardship (including myself BTW) but we must have "tough love" to change the buying patterns in this country. Nothing pisses me off more than a huge SUV with a Kerry bumper sticker on it. I call those people "Oxymorons".

Just my .02

[ArkDem]

26. ***Malapropism Alert*****

[BiggJawn]

14. So what's my "Poor Boy" discount gonna be?

I'll be stuck walking or pedalling 15 miles to work LONG before the Little Penis crowd even notices it's costing more to fill their dildos.

$5 a gallon would affect the working poor a hell of a lot more than it would the other bunch.

Stupid Git.

[sellitman]

22. See this post....for my answer

http://www.democraticunderground.com/discuss/duboard.php?az=show_mesg&forum=104&topic_id=3292612&mesg_id=3293231&page=

[BiggJawn]

25. You still miss the point completely.

In your almost religous fervor to "wake up" the SUV pilots out there, you totally discount the folks out here who are ALREADY having a hard time.

[sellitman]

29. No...I understand

You didn't read my post. I will be under a hardship too. We need to make these sacrifices for the common good. I am a road salesman who pays for his own gas. this would impact me greatly. I am willing to suck it in if it changes buying patterns down the road.

That would lead to manufacturers changing what they make. This "tough love" is necessary unfortunately.

[BiggJawn]

33. Fine, you go right ahead, then.

How much money you gonna be making when your "Road Territory" shrinks to what you can cover in a day on a mountain bike with your sample case strapped to the back?

And THEN....What about the price of everything ELSE going through the roof because of increased transportation costs? Hmmmmm?

You see, I understand your desire to twist the SUV-Nation and auto industry's arms to give up this Big-Ride death cult of theirs.

What pisses me off to NO end is you and the other "I wish gas was $10 a gallon" dummies TOTAL lack of concern to what happens to people who aren't driving around in H-2's, lighting their blunts with $50 bills.

Some people, at $10 a gallon, would see their weekly gas bill go up only $10-$15, because they are nearly car-free already. But the cost of everything ELSE in their households...
Save gas riding your Extracycle to the store, you're gonna need the money because what cost you $50 last week is going to cost you $75 this week...

Do YOU understand? Or are you, as I saw written last week, so focussed on JUST the SUV "tree" that you ignore the WHOLE rest of the "energy forest"?

[sellitman]

39. A 10 gallon dummy replies....

snip<How much money you gonna be making when your "Road Territory" shrinks to what you can cover in a day on a mountain bike with your sample case strapped to the back?>

My territory is going the other way my friend. Wal-Mart, imports and market factors are doing that. Oil price increases aren't a factor.

snip<And THEN....What about the price of everything ELSE going through the roof because of increased transportation costs? Hmmmmm?>

If we are driving smaller vehicles and consuming less energy then the cost will go down eventually.

I think long term and you are worrying about next week. No pain...no gain.

snip<You see, I understand your desire to twist the SUV-Nation and auto industry's arms to give up this Big-Ride death cult of theirs.
What pisses me off to NO end is you and the other "I wish gas was $10 a gallon" dummies TOTAL lack of concern to what happens to people who aren't driving around in H-2's, lighting their blunts with $50 bills.>

I'm thinking terrorism and world peace along with my hatred of SUVs. You are thinking me...me....me. That is thinking usually associated with the other party. "This $10 a gallon dummy" (thanks for the kind words BTW) believes that if you take the weapon of oil away from the Mid-east...peace breaks out. Removing the funding from the terrorists is a great by-product if you ask me.

Do YOU understand? Or are you just able to see the forest in front of rather than the world beyond that forest?

[BiggJawn]

44. Yeah, it IS "me...me...me..."

In your efforts to squeeze the SUV owners, you don't give a shit about the little people who are going to be hurt.

And then you take off on some jag about how this will have the "Value-Added" benefit of "fighting terrorism"...What a load of crap.

"If we are driving smaller vehicles and consuming less energy then the cost will go down eventually."

Eventually? Gee, how long? 5 years? 10 years? I should live so long. Hope I don't starve to death before that wonderful day.
And where are these "smaller vehicles" coming from? Detroit? They didn't get it in the 70's they aren't going to "get it" now.

"This $10 a gallon dummy" (thanks for the kind words BTW)"

You're more than welcome. Take comfort in the knowledge that's the WORST I called you here.

[sellitman]

55. Paths

Your Path:

CHEAP GAS which produces:

Larger and larger SUV's
Bad Air Quality
Global warming
Terrorism

My Path:

$5 a gallon gas which would produce

Smaller and more fuel efficient Cars.
Better Air Quality
Less Global warming
Under funded Arab Terrorism


Like I said. I hope the prices go up to $5 bucks a gallon. It won't stop everyone from wasteful practices but it will change a society that assumes it's luxuries are more important than the needs of the planet and the people in other country's.

[BiggJawn]

56. "luxuries"?

"Like I said. I hope the prices go up to $5 bucks a gallon. It won't stop everyone from wasteful practices but it will change a society that assumes it's luxuries are more important than the needs of the planet and the people in other country's."

Boy, you're just the Bulldog, aren't you? got your teeth into this "expensive gas is actually GOOD for you" bullshit and won't let go.

"Luxuries"?

Food is a luxury? Staying warm in the winter is a luxury?

Yeah, and Anarchy is a viable social form, too....

Now I see. I'm done with you. Shit, you're having the time of your life yanking my chain, aren't you?

[TreasonousBastard]

59. It just might, and...

it won't do a damn thing to get gas guzzlers off the road.

What it will do is kill off people like me, who drive for a living.

Delivering merchandise and parts, sales calls... I can't possibly do this by bus or bike and I end up driving well over 50,000 miles a year. 60 or 70,000 some years.

My car gets 35mpg on the highway, and $2 gas is already killing me.

Realistically, I buy 1,500 to 2,000 gallons a year. Guess what a dollar rise costs me? The tolls are going up too, btw. Income is going down, though. Amazing how that works.

In theory, yeah, I think it's ridiculous for a gallon of gas to cost less than a gallon of milk or spring water, but I'm one of a lot of people who won't gain by buying an even more efficient car and will simply be out of work because I can't make a living at this any more, and take another, probably even more shitty, job.

[ohio_liberal]

5. 2.059 in eastern Ohio

The price keeps fluctuating between 1.999 and 2.059. I noticed that the kerosene price posted at one gas station jumped from 1.999 to 2.399 in a day.

[hippiechick]

6. Yup, $2.25 up here in Carmel ...

SUV Central, as it were. :eyes:

Now that it's spring, I can dust off my bike and head up the Monon to work, and wave at all the Hummer yuppies I pass on my way ....

[Athame]

28. I would have thought Carmel would be closer to us here on Central coast

where the CHEAPEST gas around is 2.35 a gallon. The station by my office is about to top 3.00 for premium.

[BiggJawn]

34. No-no! that's Carmel, INDIANA...

And it's pronouced CAR-mel, not car-MEL, like the place Eastwood was mayor of...

$2.35 out on the coast, eh?
Ewww!

[hippiechick]

38. Carmel, Indiana ... sorry

my bad.

[Athame]

52. Ooops, I gotta remember to check the profiles before I reply

I didn't recognize the other town you mentioned, but still, $2.25 is really high for Indiana. Course, where I am I pass several offshore wells on my way to work and a number of pumping grasshoppers, so it burns to be paying $2.35 even when I know we in the USA should be paying thrice that for our consumption and the real costs of fuel.

[ConcernedNonpartisan]

8. $2.279 in Las Vegas.

Regular, unleded. And that is at the "discount" stations.

[BiggJawn]

16. Do they still give the free aspirin and sympathy?

Like that station down by the MGM Grand says on their sign...

[ConcernedNonpartisan]

20. I don't know.

I have lived here over 30 years and haven't been on the strip for the past 15 (except for conducting business).

[merbex]

9. I saw $2.38 yesterday at a Mobil in Eastern MA n/t

[leftynyc]

10. $2.49 in Westchester County, NY

And every other car is an SUV here.

[OmmmSweetOmmm]

62. I live in upper Westchester and paid $2.36 yesterday for plus. n/t

[Freebird12004]

11. $2.31 Mobil in New York State

of course on the Thruway it's higher

[Freebird12004]

40. Today $2.35 Yesterday it was 4 cents cheaper

[Divernan]

12. In Shell station in Chicago, $2.19-$2.39/gallon yesterday.

Filled up my economy size rental car on the way to Midway Airport.

I don't know what the local price is - I only have to fill my 2001 Saab (146,000 miles) once a month so haven't been to the local staion for three weeks.
side comment: people across the street from me - wife unemployed and staying home with two pre-school age kids - have two SUVs and a high price sedan. Classic case of driving three blocks to the grocery store in a SUV. The sedan stays parked in the garage for months at a time. Can't wait for the two kids to reach driving age - then there will be five vehicles at a house with a one car garage (on a narrow street).

[notadmblnd]

13. 2.23 for the cheap stuff in MIch.

nt

[zanne]

15. I keep hearing that it doesn't matter to most people.

According to CNN, that is. They quoted AAA as saying the price of gas won't affect how many people drive for pleasure. I guess they don't want people to get nervous about the summer season.

[BiggJawn]

17. Well, I heard some Shill saying "Of course, Adjusted for Inflation...."

"..Gasoline is actually CHEAPER now than it was at the time of the 1991 Gulf War..."

Yes, and "adjusted for inflation", my paycheck is less now than it was in '91.

[durablend]

60. "We surveyed 100 people..."

At the state's country clubs and asked

Will the rising price of gasoline curb your driving?

Not surprising, not one said yes. They said that they might have to change to grade A- caviar and maybe one less truffle per week, but otherwise, most of them didn't have much problem with the gas price increase.

So there you have it folks, the American people as a whole don't have a problem with gas going up.

[newportdadde]

18. 2.03 in Kansas City this morning.

Almost the highest its ever been, 2.05 is the record I've seen.

[seabeyond]

19. i didnt hear about the texas cheerleaders n/t

[Old Deuteronomy]

23. $2.05...

in eastern NC USA this morning....

[IrateCitizen]

24. I regret to say this, but I don't think prices can go high enough...

The higher they go right now, the better chance that there might be some kind of action taken to mitigate effects before things get too bad in the near future.

There was an article in Salon yesterday that profiled a prominent group analyzing oil supplies that predicted we may hit peak oil as soon as 2007 or 2008. That means that prices of $2.50/gal will seem like a bargain in the future.

Will there be people squeezed by rising gas prices now? Sadly, yes. However, there will be MANY more squeezed in the future if we don't act NOW. The choice is between moderate pain now and a positive future, or crippling pain in the future.

This will most certainly affect me as well. My wife travels 60 miles round-trip for work every day. Gas prices rising will mean much higher commuting costs for her. But it will also mean much less driving overall, in order to save money.

I'm not trying to be callous at all about this, because I realize that many people will be hurt from it. However, I just don't see anything else that will make people stand up and demand action. Then again, the only action they may demand will be lower gas prices, because Americans seem to consider driving an automobile to be a God-given right, rather than just one transportation option out of several....

[reprobate]

30. Your post brings up an interesting question:

There are many people, women in particular, who take home very little when you consider transportation costs, childcare costs, etc.

I wonder just what the effect on the economy will be when some of them decide that the income from work is just not worth the extra costs. I realize that many will not have the freedom to make that decision, they MUST work to pay the bills.

I speak mainly of the two income family. Will many of them decide that they are actually losing money by having two jobs? And what will removing them from the workforce?

I guess we'll just have to wait and watch.

[GiovanniC]

31. Filled My Tank Yesterday Morning at $2.009 a Gallon for Regular Unleaded

That was around 8:30 am.

At about 4:30 pm, drove by the same station which was up to $2.259 a gallon.

[IrateCitizen]

32. That's a whole other ball of yarn you just brought up there...

Personally, I'm a big believer that we need to significantly transform our economy if it is to truly every become "sustainable". One of the factors inherent in that is the idea that people HAVE to work 40 hours a week, 50 weeks a year, in order to "make a living". If we're every going to strive toward employment for all, we cannot continue on the current course of "job creation" indefinitely. There has to be a certain amount of job sharing as well.

IMHO, one of the biggest failings of the labor movement was to adopt the "bread and butter" approach as opposed to the "bread and roses" approach. The difference is that the first focuses almost solely on wage gains to the exclusion of all else. The latter focuses on providing workers with a solid living wage, but also on giving them leisure time to "smell the roses" as well.

Productivity has increased exponentially over the past 100 years. However, Americans are also working longer hours than in many, many years at the same time. When are we going to start equating productivity growth with a reason to actually REDUCE workers' hours on the job?

Of course, there is still the very valid argument that people have to make a living. I'm not going to discount that. People have to pay for food, housing, transportation, etc. But considering the gross disparities of wealth in this country, there is MORE than enough to go around to everyone while STILL maintaining the incentive of more money for better work or more ingenious ideas. Furthermore, we have come to look at so many things that were considered conveniences just 20 years ago as necessities, we could easily scale back on our rampant consumerism if we had more time.

I think a slight scaling-back, in the manner of which you speak, would actually be a GOOD thing in the long run. Not just for women, but for both men and women. Rather than both parents in a household working 40-50 hours a week, or even one parent working 50-60 hours a week, why not strive for a system in which both parents can work 20-30 hours a week and still maintain a modest lifestyle?

[reprobate]

42. I think we agree. But there would have to be a new paradigm of 'work'.

Way, way back, as a freshman in college (god, thats forty years ago) I wrote a paper that prophesied a society in which automation had provided everyone with the basics of life; clothing, food, shelter, transportation and entertainment. Production costs were so low that this was attainable.

If you wanted more you worked for it. The difference was that, with the drudgery handled by the machines, you could do what provided you with the personal satisfaction that can be found by doing something you love, not by working at a job that some corporation would give you to enrich it's stockholders.

"Wealth" could then become personal satisfaction, not materialist yearnings that can never be fulfilled. And I believe that in this kind of societal organizing there would be enough diversification of needed 'work' that everything could be done by those who enjoyed that particular thing to keep them occupied. And let's face it, we all need to work at something, and this would be an even deeper need when it was what WE wanted to do.

The funny thing is, I believe that we as a society are near the point of automation that this is almost possible.

That's what I meant by 'a new paradigm'.

[BiggJawn]

35. What KIND of "action"?

"...just one transportation option out of several...."

Let's see, my "several" transportation options...

Drive.
Walk. (oooh! don't forget, it's 15 miles one way)
Hitch-hike. May as well walk.
Ride bike. OK between April and October.
Move closer to job? Less cost-effective than paying $5 a gallon for gas.

Note that I did not list non-existent forms of transport as commuter trains, busses, rail service, air shuttle, etc.
You drive, walk , or pedal in this part of the country.

"My wife travels 60 miles round-trip for work every day. Gas prices rising will mean much higher commuting costs for her. But it will also mean much less driving overall, in order to save money."

No more "joy-riding", eh? Do a lot of that on the weekends? I don't.

And what do you think will happen to the cost of eating and other human things, once transport fuel prices go up?

Geez, you short-sighted people who think higher pump prices affect ONLY SUV drivers are really starting to bum me out.

[IrateCitizen]

36. You sure read a lot into my post BiggJawn that wasn't there!

My entire point is that for most people right now, there AREN'T other transportation options. And that, my friend, is the big problem.

Do you think that gas prices are NOT going to continue to go up and up more in the future? They are -- especially as China and India's oil demand escalates. And while you might be saved a bit by paying $2.30 per gallon today, you will get hurt even MORE if you have to pay $8-10 per gallon in another 5 years.

"My wife travels 60 miles round-trip for work every day. Gas prices rising will mean much higher commuting costs for her. But it will also mean much less driving overall, in order to save money."

No more "joy-riding", eh? Do a lot of that on the weekends? I don't.

No, we don't "joy-ride" either. We do, however, use our car for trips that might be a mile or so each way to run errands, and it would be a lot better for us to get a bike trailer or a couple of pull carts and WALK those distances instead. Last I checked, going grocery shopping or to church on Sunday wasn't exactly "joy-riding"....

And what do you think will happen to the cost of eating and other human things, once transport fuel prices go up?

Exactly my point. That's why we need something to compel us to establish better alternative transportation systems NOW when the costs of fuel are still manageable, as opposed to 5-10 years down the road when they are not.

Geez, you short-sighted people who think higher pump prices affect ONLY SUV drivers are really starting to bum me out.

Point out to me where I said, or even implied as much in my post. And I'm bringing these points up because I'm trying to think about the long-term implications of when gas gets a helluva lot more expensive than it is now. And for that, I'm short-sighted?

Take a deep breath, calm down, and try to respond to what I've actually said rather than responding to what you've somehow twisted my words to mean.

[BiggJawn]

41. OK, I'm sorry....

I lumped you in with the asses who can't see beyond "Know what'd be KEWL? Watching an SUV owner cry at the pump!". that was wrong.

"Exactly my point. That's why we need something to compel us to establish better alternative transportation systems NOW when the costs of fuel are still manageable, as opposed to 5-10 years down the road when they are not."

I'm in total agreement. Also goes for developing alternative forms of Energy. I think it will be a hell of a lot easier to develop the hardware to creat Energy (do you actually CREATE it, or just convert it?) NOW as opposed to later, when we'll have to figure our how to deposit Photo-Voltaic films without electricity. The infrastucture has pretty much been destryed, though. I'm thinking about "Light Rail". Shame they tore up all those abandoned tracks, even if it did give us long bike paths in their place (which will prove valuable in the future)

"No, we don't "joy-ride" either. We do, however, use our car for trips that might be a mile or so each way to run errands, and it would be a lot better for us to get a bike trailer or a couple of pull carts and WALK those distances instead. Last I checked, going grocery shopping or to church on Sunday wasn't exactly "joy-riding"...."

OK, again, I apologise. We're in the same boat. Commute to work, combine errands so as to minmize driving, and go to town ONE additional trip on the weekend for shopping. when the weather breaks, I intend to start biking to work.

[Norquist Nemesis]

27. Suburban Chicago 2:30 pm yesterday $2.08; 3pm $2.18

Two weeks ago the Jewel station was $1.73 for regular. It's usually the cheapest around these parts. It's now at $2.08, but I suspect by this afternoon it will be at $2.18 or so. BP's and Shell's are running $2.25 for regular.

[Strelnikov_]

37. It’s Called Demand Destruction By Economists

I call it an example of how the ‘market’ system is dysfunctional when it comes to infrastructure planning. In this case, the energy and transport infrastructure. Because of the lead times required to transform the energy infrastructure once the ‘market’ signals a problem, massive economic distress is unavoidable.

On edit: Some of the mitigation this report considered was much higher CAFE standards for demand reduction along with GTL, Coal Gasification and Heavy Oil for supply mitigation.

Peaking of World Oil Production: Impacts, Mitigation and Risk Management.
Hirsch, Bezdek, Wendling, February 2005

http://www.hilltoplancers.org/stories/hirsch0502.pdf

. . .

Because conventional oil production decline will start at the time of peaking, crash program mitigation inherently cannot avert massive shortages unless it is initiated well in advance of peaking.

Specifically,
* Waiting until world conventional oil production peaks before initiating crash program mitigation leaves the world with a significant liquid fuel deficit for two decades or longer.
* Initiating a crash program 10 years before world oil peaking would help considerably but would still result in a worldwide liquid fuels shortfall, starting roughly a decade after the time that oil would have otherwise peaked.
* Initiating crash program mitigation 20 years before peaking offers the possibility of avoiding a world liquid fuels shortfall for the forecast period.

Without timely mitigation, world supply/demand balance will be achieved through massive demand destruction (shortages), accompanied by huge oil price increases, both of which would create a long period of significant economic hardship worldwide.

[ailsagirl]

43. I heard today that in Malibu, California, it's $3.00 per gallon

Gee-- wonder if it has anything to do with the ANWR vote???

Bastards

[Martti]

45. Try this.

In here it's $4.80+ and no-ones complaining :)
We've had years to get used to tho'.

Mara

[RUMMYisFROSTED]

47. Are there roads in Finland?

:evilgrin:

[Martti]

48. Last I checked

And to top it we have a quite good educational and health care systems, largely paid by taxation of fuels :)

Mara

[RUMMYisFROSTED]

49. Can we trade?

I'll even throw in a "cowboy" who's been kicked in the head too many times.

[Martti]

51. I think we'll pass that one, thank you

Here's our president fixing *'s tie (The artist's addition to the picture is not totally unwarranted either).



P.S. Impeach the war-monkey-in-chief, will you? Please?

[RUMMYisFROSTED]

54. P.P.S.

It's hard work.

[Art_from_Ark]

58. I guess I ought to consider myself lucky

that I'm only paying about $3.80/gallon here in Japan

[RUMMYisFROSTED]

46. $2.70 in Washington.

Diesel.

[alfredo]

50. $2.18 in Lexington Ky

[SF Bay Area Dem]

53. $2.71 --- SF East Bay (San Ramon/Blackhawk area)

It seems like it has jumped .50 in the last two weeks...

[SoCalDem]

57. I'd buy it

It's $2.40-something here for regular:cry:

[Freebird12004]

61. $2.39

[B Calm]

63. Ben said it best. The people who voted for an oil president

thinking that it would mean cheap gas, have go to be feeling pretty stupid now.

[liberalitch]

64. $1.95 in Norfolk, Va. (For reg.... $2.12 for the next grade)

Jack the oil prices.... point and say "look we need to drill.... foreign oil is killing us"
They have people believing that ANWR drilling will save our economy.

the rest of the world just doesn't like bush.... plain and simple... our economy (trade deficits and such) will not end until he is gone