C.S. Lewis on "omnipotent moral busibodies" (vs. Robber Barons)

[villager]

Since Lewis is being touted anew as a Christian allegorist/moralist (with the Narnia films in the works), run this by your Fundie "friends:"

"It may be better to live under robber barons than under omnipotent
moral busybodies. The robber baron's cruelty may sometimes sleep, his
cupidity may at some point be satiated; but those who torment us for our
own good will torment us without end, for they do so with the approval of their consciences."---C. S. Lewis

[Bob3]

1. Greed never sleeps.

N/T

[villager]

2. true, he may have been an optimist viz. the Robber Barons but...

...interesting that he thought the "moral busibodies" were the larger threat...

[Dogmudgeon]

3. G.K. Chesterton is also being flogged on the unwashed

Another figure of admiration by the Conservatives, who was anti-Corporate. They also like him because he opposed pacifism, but forget that he opposed pre-emptive and imperial wars, too.

--p!

[villager]

4. pretty "selective," those necons, eh?

n/t

[Dogmudgeon]

16. Here's an GK Chesterton quote worth keeping in mind:

“The poor object to being governed badly.
The rich object to being governed at all.”
- from The Man Who Was Thursday (1908)

--p!

[Merlot]

5. C.S. Lewis isn't your ordinary fundi/moralist

His books are very well written and intellectual. I doubt many fundies, or even many xtians have read them. I'm not talking about the childrens books, but his books on morality, god, etc. Very heavy stuff. He thinks for himself.

If you want to find out more about him, "Shadowlands" (with Debra Winger) is an exceptional movie. Anthony Hopkins breaks my heart every time in that movie.

[villager]

6. I'd forgotten about "Shadowlands...."

thanks for the tip...

[toddaa]

8. Not in my experience

Usually, the more rabid the fundy, the more likely that they've memorized "Mere Christianity" and will quote from it liberally. He's quite popular with the "come, let us reason" crowd.

[villager]

11. there's still a "come, let us reason" crowd?

A handful maybe. If there's still a crowd, maybe it warrants a tad of increased optimism...

[toddaa]

12. Put 'reason' in quotes

The "come, let us reason" bit is from the Bible and is reference to apologetics. Some apologetic arguments are pretty decent, and some are like those C.S. Lewis's. Swiss cheese. The rabble who freely quote Lewis have as much grasp of the fundamentals of logic as Lewis, meaning not much.

[villager]

14. Didn't ML King use that line?

Or am I imaginging that -- like the fantasy of the time when America still had "possibility...?"

[toddaa]

17. Probably

As a minister, he was definitely familiar with the passage (Isaiah 1:18). Apologists use it incorrectly, whereas ML King appears to have a better grasp of its context. It pertains to sin and forgiveness.

[villager]

19. ML King appeared to have a better grasp of what Jesus was saying

...all the way around...

[toddaa]

23. Wanna know why?

It's because he was a Christian.

[villager]

27. an actual one...

...as opposed to these blaspheming fundies. Good point.

[tanyev]

7. Unfortunately, we are living in a country

where the omnipotent moral busybodies have entered into an alliance with the robber barons.

[William Bloode]

9. I agree with this statement.

I would fully rather live under robber barons who left me alone than a pack of moral busy bodies.

Sadly todays robber barons are also moral busy bodies.

[Jacobin]

13. Bingo

[shance]

21. "Today the robber barons are also moral busy bodies"

Well said!!

[jdj]

25. but is he referring to fundies or us do gooder liberals?

I don't trust this quote, but if he's referring to the fundie control freaks I say amen.

[KG]

10. so, our choice as leaders are theves or fundies.

time for humanity to start thinking outside the box.

[Orsino]

15. Fortunately, we don't have to choose...

The thieves are now wearing fundie costumes, and the alliance is ironclad. They are united in their quest to keep us kneeling.

[LanternWaste]

18. There's a peculiar gentleness to his writing

A couple of paraphrases from Lewis...

"The great civilizations from which we were born all had one thing in common.. the practice of usury (charging interest rates) was expressly forbidden... and these are the very same civilizations from which our "Shared Myths" have arisen from. Odd-- we proclaim with righteousness the very same thing thing that had been condemned"


"Of course He came with a message repeated often before and since... most of the world's greatest teachers do not teach us new philosophies and morals, they simply remind us about the one's we conveniently forget"


I do think however that many of today's radical Christian clerics have and do read Lewis. But, as with us all, we read and see what we *want* to read and see.

For anyone even remotely interested in apologetics, I recommend "Surprised by Joy" as a very good primer. His works have gone through numerous re printings and I still have little problems finding them in even the smallest of bookshops.

There's a peculiar gentleness to his writing that makes me often wonder... do his ideas start in the heart and get refined through his mind, or the other way around?

[villager]

20. his phrase "Surprised by Joy" reminds of me Abraham Joshua Heschel's

equally redolent phrase, "radical amazement." We are charged with showing/expressing radical amazement at all the gifts life constantly arrays around us...

[Ladyhawk]

22. Good quote. I added it to a list of quotes I keep. Thanks! n/t

[villager]

24. yr. welcome!

n/t

[LittleClarkie]

26. Tolkien was in the same vein

though his faith wasn't so much on his sleeve in LOTR. I love to remind those who think that D&D is an evil game that the guy who wrote the books that the game is based on was a Christian, and that LOTR has Christian undertones. Lewis, who was his friend, pushed him to be more overt about his references, but Tolkien liked it the way it was.

Not your typical fundies indeed.

As for CS Lewis, I recommend "The Screwtape Letters."

[Bridget Burke]

28. Tolkien re-awakened Lewis's religious interest.

He didn't set out to "convert" him, but they were members of the Inklings at Oxford & some of their conversations ran to the spiritual. Tolkien "cured" his atheism, but Lewis went Church of England rather than becoming Catholic. (Lewis's Ulster Protestant background may have kept him from going over to Rome.)

Immediately, Lewis began writing about his newfound faith; & his books sold well. Tolkien wasn't into such obvious allegory & may have envied Lewis's financial success. A fine position at Oxford didn't really pay enough to support a wife and four children & Tolkien's writing seemed less commercial. When he finally finished LOTR, the publisher thought it worthwhile literature that would sink like a stone. Tolkien accepted minimal payment & settled for 50% of the profits. (Ho Ho!)

Evangelicals / Fundamentalists read Lewis's religious works but some consider him dangerously ecumenical. And his Narnia stories are anything but Fundamentalist.