Do you support bilingualism?

[Stop_the_War]

There are about 30 million native Spanish speakers in the U.S. Would you support an increase in the education of the Spanish language in American schools and an increase in the amount of Spanish on buildings, in libraries, on TV, and so on?

[HEyHEY]

1. Yup - In Canada I support it for as well - however

Not for French, not in Western Canada. I think out here our kids should be at least given the option of Taking Cantonese in School. We didn't have it until grade 11. But french is mandatory starting in grade 5. There is not enough French people in BC to worry about that language here.

[aint_no_life_nowhere]

22. Is western Canada a separate country?

While I agree with you that Cantonese should be given in the schools (I'm in favor of the teaching of as many languages as possible in the public schools) the mere fact that there are few local speakers of French in western Canada should not be determinative in my opinion. If Canada is to continue as a whole sovereign entity, the west and the east should understand and know each other. In the same way, I would favor the teaching of Spanish in Maine and Alaska in the United States, where there are few Hispanics.

[NewJeffCT]

33. Why Cantonese?

Mandarin is spoken by more Chinese, and many that can speak Cantonese also understand Mandarin. Cantonese is basically Hong Kong & Guangdong Province, while Mandarin is the rest of Eastern China...

[Locut0s]

40. I'm 1/2 Chinese and live in Vancouver Canada, speak a bit of mandarin...

but don't speak any Cantonese. Actually I used to speak it fluently but have forgotten most of it :( We have an extremely large Chinese population here in Vancouver and interestingly enough Cantonese would probably be more useful here than mandarin, although there are also a LOT of mandarin speakers here too.

[ulysses]

2. yes. n/t

[Abelman]

3. I think

Every student should be educated in English, an Asian language such as Japanese or Cantonese, and a romance language such as French or Spanish. Once you learn one type of a language family, it is much easier to learn others within that family. I think it is important for students to learn another language to better appreciate different cultures and ways of life, and I wish I'd been that smart in high school so I would have taken a foreign language.

[Yosie]

10. Agree

And the younger the better.

The best to learn a foreign language - is to listen to your immigrant grandparents talk about something "The children shouldn't hear."

[jdj]

115. me too.

I am so tired of this reactionary redneck isolationist bullshit that Bush keeps forcing down everyone's throats. Ignunt white trash need to be dragged kicking and screaming into the 21st century. Where I am from there is such an influx of ukrainian and russian folks (which people don't seem to bitch about because they are white, even Walmart hires them and pays 'em under the table) that maybe some russian should be thrown in their too.

I can't wait for the U.S. to grow up and be all sophisticated. I watch "Strange Love" on VH-1 just to see Brigette switch into one of the five languages she knows, she is so respectful of people in that way, and I just wish Americans were encouraged to be, well, Christ-like in our interactions with other cultures.

[Blue_In_AK]

4. Language immersion programs

My 5-year-old kindergarten grandson is involved with a Russian language immersion program at his school. The whole class is done in Russian all morning and then they switch back to English in the afternoon. He's loving it and picking it up so fast, not only speaking but the Russian alphabet, too. I think it's fabulous.

ed...Anchorage school district also has Japanese and Spanish immersion programs at other elementary schools. Russian seems like a good fit for Alaska because of our history, and we have a lot of interaction with Russia since it's so close.

[loro mi dicevano]

7. That's wonderful. There need to be more of those programs.

[TahitiNut]

30. I'd favor wholesale exchange programs in grade school and

... high school. I'd love to see more and more students able to live for an entire school year in a foreign country, learing not only the language but the culture and the people. After two years of a language, demonstrating classroom competence, a year immersed in the foreign country would have immeasurable benefits, I believe. Spanish immersion (by exchange) could also be done domestically.

[ohio_liberal]

56. We have a foreign exchange student every year...

...in our school district. The exchangees spend a whole year twiddling their thumbs over curriculum they already know and being drafted onto the football team because they know how to kick. These kids are so better educated than our own local kids it's not funny.

[Lydia Leftcoast]

60. I once had a Danish roommate, and when she was in school,

the students were sent on field trips to Germany (a couple of hours away) and England (during vacation periods). She said it was highly motivating.

[Menshevik]

62. wow

I wish I had that program as a kid. I bet he can speak Russian better than me!

[Blue_In_AK]

69. He's particularly fond of "da" and "nyet" LOL

[loro mi dicevano]

5. Yes, absolutely. English and Spanish should be mandatory in schools,

starting in fourth or fifth grade, with other foreign language options available.

I REALLY need to learn Spanish.

[etherealtruth]

6. We need to start bilingual education early.

High school (though better than never) is too late.

[Coastie for Truth]

14. Elementary school

My son had Hebrew and French in elementary school (Solomon Schechter School near the Canadian Border) and is still passable in both.

I picked up Yiddish and Russian from my grandparents - practically as a toddler - both languages are still with me 60 years later.

[Scout]

8. not just Spanish

I think all of us should be fluent in at least two languages these day.

I started and quit studying Spanish in jr. high, high school, and college ... never could get past a certain point and become a fluent speaker.

I just spoke with a friend not 30 minutes ago, about getting together with a mutual acquaintance who is a native Spanish speaker and helping each other speak English/Spanish.

When I was in elementary school, they taught us French in 4th and 5th grades, but then it stopped in 6th. Not sure why ... it had been mandatory, and then it was just dropped.

I hate it when people are "proud" of speaking only English, especially when they don't even do that very well. I'm kind of embarrassed that I speak only one language.

[Warpy]

9. I'd like to see Spanish started in kindergarten

because the earlier you start kids on a second language, the better they learn it. Learning a second language also boosts a kid's ability in his primary language, and makes learning subsequent languages easier.

Most of the rest of the people in this hemisphere speak Spanish, so it's only natural that Spanish should coexist with English from kindergarten on.

In any case, waiting until high school to introduce a second language just doesn't work.

I studied Latin and Greek and had 6 years of French, and I've used them all, although rarely conversationally.

[SuperWonk]

11. re:

I think there should be a firm basis of learning English first, and then work up from there: Spanish, French, Gernman, whatever.
Starting languages early is a great idea, but not at the expense of losing focus of the native tounge.

[etherealtruth]

18. My understanding is that bi or multilingualism enhances...

the "native" tongue vs. detracting from it.

[EFerrari]

12. Aqui en California

it should be the law, a result of the Treaty of Guadalupe Hidalgo.

And we've got to deal with practical challenges, like printing ballots in seven languages. I've worked as a translator. Mistakes get made all the time and the folks that make them get really upset at being called on them.

[Contrary1]

13. My thoughts are that if they are going to live here

they need to learn English.

[Stop_the_War]

16. that's a very ignorant statement

Of course they will learn English. But we should learn Spanish too.

[kittenpants]

32. actually I don't think it's ignorant to say that...

I've read and heard accounts by people who speak English as a second language and they sometimes feel that if they aren't forced to learn English and not rely on their native language it would prohibit them from feeling confident in using English when they have to. I do believe multi-lingualism is necessary for our country though. It will be a long road getting there, but it's worth it.

[Contrary1]

52. Why post a poll if you did not want opinions?

Come to Indianapolis, which has one of the highest percentages
of Hispanic-speaking people in the country. Talk to the ones
who cannot yet speak English. (I do speak Spanish, by the way.)
Ask them how long they have been here.

"Of course they will learn English..."

Then tell me that it was a very ignorant statement.

[ultraist]

55. According to the USCB, Indianapolis has only 5% Hispanic/Latino population

5% is LESS than than half of the national average of 13%

http://factfinder.census.gov/servlet/ACSSAFFFacts?_event=&geo_id=16000US1836003&_geoContext=01000US%7C04000US18%7C16000US1836003&_street=&_county=indianapolis&_cityTown=indianapolis&_state=04000US18&_zip=&_lang=en&_sse=on&ActiveGeoDiv=&_useEV=

White
510,955
67.0
76.1%

Black or African American
190,879
25.0
12.1%

American Indian and Alaska Native
4,066
0.5
0.8%

Asian
11,874
1.6
4.1%

Native Hawaiian and Other Pacific Islander
0
0.0
0.1%

Some other race
26,013
3.4
4.8%


Two or more races
18,803
2.5
1.9%


Hispanic or Latino (of any race)
38,490
Indianapolis: 5.0
National average: 13.8%

[Contrary1]

58. According to the 2000 U.S. Census,

the Marion County Hispanic population quadrupled from 1990 to 2000, with current residents at 33,290. 2004 estimates put the population at closer to 150,000. Brookings Institution Center on Urban Policy and Metropolitan Policy 2002 report finds that Indianapolis ranks in the top 25 of the largest cities with foreign-born residents, with Mexico as the largest origin country.

Edit: Indianapolis includes all of Marion County.

http://www.kibi.org/news/news_latino_outreach_100604.htm

Not counting illegals.

[ultraist]

65. That is an urban policy estimate not a US census bureau stat

I posted the 2003 US Census bureau stats on percentage of Hispanics/Latinos, different stat. In the TOP 25 cities of ALL foreign born, could be 25th.

Foreign born is NOT just Hispanic.

[Contrary1]

66. 150,000 not 33,290

On edit: make that closer to 200,000.

"The 1990 census shows that the Hispanic population in Marion County represented 1.06% of the total population of the county, or 8,450 people. By 2000 they had increased to 3.87% of the population or 33,290 people; a 293.96% increase. Most experts conclude that the actual figure is around 200,000 since most Hispanics were not counted due to multiple factors such as lack of information, language, culture and immigration fears. The numbers continue to grow rapidly specially on the west side...."

http://www.ai.org/dot/div/projects/accelerate465/design/news.html

[ultraist]

72. US CENSUS BUREAU STATS: 4% Hispanic/Latino Indiana

http://factfinder.census.gov/servlet/ACSSAFFFacts?_event=&geo_id=04000US18&_geoContext=01000US%7C04000US18%7C16000US1836003&_street=&_county=indianapolis&_cityTown=indianapolis&_state=04000US18&_zip=&_lang=en&_sse=on&ActiveGeoDiv=&_useEV=

Fact Sheet
Fact Sheet United States | Indiana | Indianapolis city (balance)
Hispanic or Latino (of any race)

237,800 TOTAL FOR STATE
4.0% Indiana
13.8% National average

[Bridget Burke]

92. I live in Houston & love San Antonio

I doubt the "Hispanic menace" you percieve in Indianapolis would frighten me.

[Coastie for Truth]

17. Yes - but if we are going to live in a world economy

we should at least know which door is to the appropriate rest room, and where the fire escape is, and that the red, octagon that says "Arrete" is a stop sign, and which stairs lead to the right subway (the "Three Dudes Dancing" is the subway to Roppongi).

[LWolf]

20. It's not "they" or "them."

"They" are U.S. citizens, just like those of us who are monolingual.

More languages = more learning, more cross-cultural communication, more open doors, more flexibility, and better international communication and understanding. It's nothing but good.

Restricting people to any one-size-fits-all limitation, whether it be in the arena of language, education, religion, politics, family structures, relationships, art, music, or any other "way" of doing something is, imo, destructive. It's the antithesis of individuality, freedom, and appreciation for diversity.

There is never just one "right" way.

[July]

61. I share your views.

And I would also like to note that Spanish was spoken in what is now the United States before English was. It is also spoken in many countries of the world.

[LWolf]

84. Especially on point in my state.

Spain was the first major(European)colonizer of California, followed by Mexico about a hundred years later. Spanish was the original european language spoken here; our geographical names are more spanish than english.

[gollygee]

21. The same could be set for the first English-speaking settlers in Florida

and the Southwest.

If they were going to live in a Spanish-speaking area, they should have all learned Spanish.

[Swamp Rat]

23. ¡Entonces, tú tienes que aprender el español!

Se quisera morar aqui, tem que aprender o portugües também et Français aussi!

Ha det bra. :hi:

[loro mi dicevano]

24. Ha det bra, eh? ;) Can't understand much Spanish, but Norwegian!

(/Swedish/Danish) THAT I can do. :P

[Swamp Rat]

28. Ja.. hêia!

:hi: Hvordan står det til med deg?

... mas, falo portugües (y español and English und Deutsch) muito melhor que tudo. For some reason my brain likes Latin-Romance languages better, but I want to return to Norsk and start on Finno-Ugric languages... after I work on Italian and French. :) The latter two I cannot speak well and it is frustrating. x(

Wanna try a HARD language? Look at Basque or a native North American language like Ogibwe. :)

[Stop_the_War]

29. How many languages do you speak Swamp Rat?

WOW.

Do you speak Latin too?

[Swamp Rat]

41. Ha! No, I don't speak Latin... at least not very well.

I learned Medaeval ecclesiastical Latin when I was studying early music manuscripts of the Latin Mass and the liturgy - Liber Usualis.

I'm pretty good in a few languages, including music. ;)

If I lived to be 500 years old, I would attempt to learn every language on Earth, then I'd apply to be an Earth Ambassador to our extraterrestrial alliances/contacts. We gotta defeat the alien lizards! :D

[Stop_the_War]

42. I once read an article that said that people today could live to be 1000

No kidding. I'll try to find the article, but it said continual advances in science and medicine would dramatically increase the lifespans of people living today.

[Stop_the_War]

44. here it is:

http://news.bbc.co.uk/1/hi/uk/4003063.stm

[Swamp Rat]

46. Whoa! Thanks. n/t

[loro mi dicevano]

34. Kjempebra, takk! Og med du?

I can only speak Norwegian and English fluently, and Chinese pretty well, but I'm working on Italian, Romanian, and Arabic. I speak bits and pieces of Dakota, but I REALLY try to limit myself to four or so languages at a time. *cringe*

Being multilingual is very, very fun.

[Swamp Rat]

45. Gad, tak.

Oui! :D

Did you see the DU Language and Linguistics Forum? I just discovered it last night! :D

http://www.democraticunderground.com/discuss/duboard.php?az=show_topics&forum=309

[loro mi dicevano]

47. Whoa, I never noticed it! Awesome, thanks!

Oooh.

[Swamp Rat]

50. Bem-vindo ao DU!

:hi:

It looks like the group is just getting started, but hopefully many more DUers who love learning languages will participate. It would great if more "furriners" would register here and post in their native languages. I really want to post and read posts in portugës so can can practice. :D

Oba!

[Stop_the_War]

51. Ola...como e voce? Eu falo espanhol e ingles...

That's about all the Portuguese I speak.

[Swamp Rat]

110. Super-legal rapaz!

(= "¡la ostia hombre!" en español)

Eu gosto de vê-lo tentar falar o português! :)

Vea, solamente tenemos que tratar hablar otros idiomas. No es posible habar todos, pero es el buen intento y el buen esfuerzo que importa. ;)

[Telly Savalas]

74. Maybe we should learn Cherokee then.

[ThorsHammer]

98. I agree completely; but have no problem with us learning Spanish as well

EDIT: Left out the 'us' (non-native speakers) in the post.

I do think that immigrants should learn English, and would support ESL (?) programs to help them. I also think it would be beneficial for Americans to learn Spanish, as it can only help.

[Book Lover]

111. Interesting, but not germane

The OT is about native USians learning a second language, not about what immigrants should or should not do.

[LWolf]

15. Language acquisition happens best early.

The best model for becoming a bilingual nation would be dual immersion bilingual schools. We have one in our district.

I support it. In another decade or so, I will be obsolete as a monolingual teacher. The problems I encounter in not being able to communicate to parents in their language are increasing every year.

I've had 2 years of high school French and a year of college Spanish, and a year of college sign language. I don't speak or understand any of them. Textbook/classroom language learning doesn't "stick" if you aren't conversing regularly with native speakers of the language. I'm left with being able to pick out some familiar vocabulary, if they speak v e r r r r r r y s l o w l y.

I'd love to learn Spanish; if my future daughter-in-law and son ever live in the same community I do, I'll have her teach me. Then I know I'd have someone to talk to so I could apply what I was learning.

[Swamp Rat]

19. Absolutamete!

Monolingual Americans are so deprived of their own, rich culture. It is as if they are dispossessed of their roots by the vestigages of an anglophilic colonialism.

Que tristeza! :cry:

[Rabrrrrrr]

25. If you mean teaching kids Spanish,and other foreign languages, then yes

Our teaching of foreign languages is pretty rotten in this country.

But if you mean teaching students in Spanish instead of English, then no. Our schools should be in English.

And in terms of TV, anyone can start a TV station in whatever language they want. I don't think the big boys should start broadcasting in foreign languages, though.

As to buildings and signs - I say keep them all in English, at least the public ones. If a private citizen wants to put up a building, they can put their sign in whatever language they want.

But given the vast diversity in this country in terms of languages and cultures, I think we need to stick to English-only, otherwise we're gonna have road signs with 85 languages on them, etc.

For the sake of sanity and practicality, it is even more important that we make sure everyone who moves here gets to learn English, and that we teach them well, and that we keep just one language as the language of the country.

Yeah, Canada manages it, but they had a huge French population to begin with, and so had to compromise. Plus, you don't see Canada trying to include Cantonese and Spanish and Korean and whatnot into their official stuff.

[Stop_the_War]

26. Actually there are more Spanish speakers in the U.S.

than French speakers in Canada. And Canada DOES try to include other languages than French in their official stuff.

[rockymountaindem]

53. There are more Spanish speakers in the US than Canadians in Canada.

The French speaking Canadians comprise about 1/3 of the population.

[bleedingheart]

27. I agree with you.

[ulysses]

39. but when a student comes into a school at, say, 15,

with minimal or no English skills, and the state (as in the case here in GA) is required to pull him into an ESOL class for an hour or two per day but provide all instruction in core curricula in English...how is that student supposed to learn anything?

[Rabrrrrrr]

80. In about a year, that student will have learned English

The best way to learn a language to be fully immersed in it, especially in a sink or swim situation. Might set him back a year scholastically, but who cares? So he graudates at 19 instead of 18. At least he knows the language of his new country, and will be able to speak in it and go wherever he wants.

Will he learn much in his specific subjects that first year? No, not necessarily - but every minute, he is learning English. And that's far more important and in the long run do him far, far more good.

What's the other option? Teach him everything in Spanish, and by the time he graduates high school he'll have English at a 5th or 6th grade level?

Yeah, that'll really help him out.

[Locut0s]

43. Uhh as a Canadian on the west coast I can say that Canada is...

more bilingual in name. Yes anything official, government forms and government run facilities, are in both languages, although road signs are only in English. Any company that offers customer service offers both French and English service. Almost all product labels are in both languages. However you will find that very few people on the west coast come out of high school with anything more than "Bonjour", despite the 6 or 7 years of French classes. The same is true in most cities here, although it is definitely better out east. Basically is you were raised as a French Canadian in Canada then you are likely to be bilingual, if not then chances are you only know a handful of phrases. It's actually not quite as bad as that, there are people who come out of high school knowing quite a bit of French, but it's not the norm.

[DemExpat]

63. Agreed.

DemEx

[July]

64. Well, I've lived in Spain, & there are several different languages there.

Most were suppressed under Franco, but that is no longer the case. Besides Basque, Catalan, and Galician, there are some fairly distinctive variations of Spanish, as well. In the areas where they are prominent, you adapt. You can speak Spanish, if that's all you know, but the people speak in their own language, and use it in government, street signs, schools, and everywhere else. The country isn't in a crisis over this.

There are much smaller countries in Europe (Switzerland, Belgium) with several official languages. You manage when you have to. And I think we are going to have to soon, given the demographics for Hispanic Americans.

[Karenina]

31. EVERYONE who has a chance

should learn a second language. There is NO DOWNSIDE to being bi-lingual. At 19 my "goal" was to master 5 languages by the time I was 50. I failed, but have had A LOT OF FUN trying!!! Learning to communicate with someone who uses different sounds that mean the same common experience is SO EMPOWERING!

[NewJeffCT]

35. How about trilingualism?

English, Spanish and one other major language for all children - Japanese, Chinese, German, Russian.

[Stop_the_War]

36. sounds great !

[amazona]

37. I absolutely do support it

I have very little talent for language and the more support I get in the environment, the more it helps. I have to see it/hear it over and over to get it. Pretty selfish reason, I guess. But it would be a big help in my travels if I had more than "menu" Spanish.

The conservation movement is a breeding ground of communists
and other subversives. We intend to clean them out,
even if it means rounding up every birdwatcher in the country.
--John Mitchell, US Attorney General 1969-72

[Gman]

38. I learned Spanish in high school and college because

I chose to stay in South Texas and spoke only English. Figured if I was going to live here I should learn Spanish.

[starwolf]

48. Only if its Esperanto

[Darranar]

49. ¡Claro que sí! n/t

[newyawker99]

54. YES. n/t

[Mairead]

57. Making Spanish quasi-official? ¡No way, José!

The only reason the question even arises is that the birthrate of Spanish-speakers is, because of the Catholic church and the culture of machismo, ruinously high. In a world already desperately overpopulated, that is the very last thing we should be rewarding by quasi-official recognition.

But second-language learning? Yes. Chinese (guoyu/putonghua), Japanese, French, Dutch, Spanish, and isiZulu or Swahili would make a good start.

[Karenina]

68. Ich bin sprachlos...

:wow:

[Mairead]

83. Meinst du? Wieso denn? (kT)

[Karenina]

87. Heh?

Auntie K. does a triple take? Was soll denn das? Was meinst Du denn?

[Mairead]

100. Gar nichts außerordentliches, ich versichere dich.

I was surprised, and wanted to know why you felt speechless.

[Karenina]

101. The birthrate of Spanish-speakers

is "ruinously high?" Sorry, I must admit to being totally durcheinander reading your posts.

[Bridget Burke]

105. I'd wondered what "ruinously high" meant in statistical terms.

"They breed like animals, you know!"

Myself, I'm descended from recent Catholic immigrants. However, they had the benefit of 800 years of exposure to English civilization before crossing the ocean, so they spoke a version of English.

[Mairead]

121. "They breed like animals, you know!"

I'd more say they breed like observant Roman Catholics with the additional handicaps of priapic machismo and irresponsible political leaders.

(edit: their birthrate is 2X that of non-Hispanics...and the non-H birthrate is too high!)

[Mairead]

119. They are the fastest-growing minority group in the US

In hardly any time at all, they've completely overtaken Black people. Why do you suppose there are so many Spanish-language provisions?

Schau dich bitte an: http://www.ahorre.com/hispanicinfo.htm

(Durcheinanders? Warum so?)

[ultraist]

122. Immigration is the main contributor to the growth of the Hispanic pop.

Hispanic population in US is only slightly higher than the Black population which is 12.5% nationally.

What do you mean by "totally taken over Black people?"

[Mairead]

123. Their birthrate is 2X the non-Hispanic average

And I said 'overtaken' not 'taken over' (strange that those aren't even vaguely similar in meaning).

[ultraist]

127. EXCUSE the typo

My question stands, what do you mean by your remark, "They have overtaken Black people?"

Do you have source for average # of children of Hispanic families compared to non-Hispanic families?

[Mairead]

130. Sorry, I thought it was a misreading rather than a typo

What I meant was that Black folk have been displaced as the largest minority group, and it happened quite quickly. (edit)Between 1990 and 2003, the Hispanic population nearly doubled. Which means that in 13 years it went from about 60% of the size of the Black population to 101%.

And as to a cite, please see http://www.ahorre.com/hispanicinfo.htm (also given to Karenina, in an earlier post). I'm sure the Census site will confirm the numbers.

[Karenina]

134. All the more reason

to learn Spanish! ;-)

[Lydia Leftcoast]

59. I would require a foreign language of all students

Whether that should be Spanish or something else would depend on local conditions. French would make more sense in Maine and perhaps Chinese or Korean in some parts of the West Coast. Spanish is dominant now, but a hundred years ago, German and Italian were the "Spanish" of their day, spoken by large immigrant communities in all major cities.

For all the horrible things that the former South African government did, they did one thing right. Their white population is divided between speakers of English and speakers of Afrikaans (a variety of Dutch), with the Afrikaners being a slight majority. In white schools, all students were required to study both English and Afrikaans beginning in first grade. (Black students studied their tribal language and English, and in fact, some of the Soweto riots were triggered when it was proposed that black students be required to learn Afrikaans, which they considered the langauge of their principal oppressors.)

The main problem with requiring everyone to learn English and Spanish or English and French or English and Chinese would be finding qualified teachers.

It would also be vital to have a mixture of native speakers of both languages in each class. Otherwise, there is a real danger of the children developing a "classroom dialect" of their non-native language. I've seen this happen in poorly-run Japanese immersion programs, and once the students internalize English-patterned Japanese, it's almost impossible to break them of those weird sentence patterns.

[ultraist]

67. Republicans cutting funding to fed agencies for Spanish docs

Rep US Senator (can't remember who) is proposing that English be made the official US language and that eventually all voting info will not be provided in Spanish, as well as other bi-lingual services. (Court translators, hospital translators, etc)

Some of their xenophobic dirty deeds can be seen here:
http://ourworld.compuserve.com/homepages/JWCRAWFORD/langleg.htm#108th

[Mairead]

85. I would agree on the 'official language' part.

but not with the idea of not providing a qualified interpreter for someone who needs one in an official or medical situation. We lose part of our ability to learn languages after puberty. With some people the loss is nearly complete, and, since it's not a volitional issue for them, they shouldn't be punished.

[Sympleesmshn]

70. i agree with Bilingualism

Another language should be taught from Kindergarten. I don't know if it should be Spanish though. Maybe a regional thing, or choice of the parent.... I would love to be able to be fluent in another language, Mandarin would be my first choice, but I think we should stick with mostly English signs, unless you want to but others everywhere too. I think it is vital that my generation know a second language if not 3 or 4. My grandfather, born in California, learned German before English, because he could only speak German in the house. If our country is going to teach other languages it should start at the earliest age possible...

[Tierra_y_Libertad]

71. Most of us are already proficient in 2 languages. English and Profanity.

Both are useful in dealing with everyday life, though profanity is particularly handy during encounters with Republicans, computers, and shrinkwrap.

[adwon]

73. Only

if it's done as a 2d language program, akin to current foreign language requirements. Of course, I'd like to see current requirements be closer to immersion-style.

If it means instructing children in only their native language, then no. I have to agree with Mario Cuomo and Robert Rodriguez on this one. Part of assimilating into an American identity (or any new identity as an immigrant) is learning the dominant language. I just can't picture an American immigrant to France really being able to fully participate in French culture, politics, etc. without being able to speak French.

[spinbaby]

75. I agree with you

And I'm speaking as someone who entered an American kindergarten not speaking a word of English. This was in the 1950s before there was any real understanding or tolerance of non-English speakers in the school system. My teachers first thought I was retarded, then thought I had a speech impediment. But being forced to learn entirely in English ensured that I mastered the language. I now speak English without an accent and make my living as a writer--I'm not at all sure that would have happened if I had been catered to by being instructed in German.

On the other hand, I'm all in favor of teaching new languages early with language-imersion programs. Waiting until high school and teaching textbook language does very little to make anyone competent in any language.

[Massacure]

76. Foreign languages are both a help and indrance to cultural understanding.

People who speak two different languages obviously cannot interact with each other, and so cultural understanding is very hard to come by. However, there are so many different languages. It is not possible to learn all of them.

[Karenina]

96. Unbelievable...

Amis are SO IMPOVERISHED despite the "melting pot" claims.

Last night I was at at Turkish wedding. My Turkish is limited to several words. I USED THEM and picked up some more at my advanced age! ;-) I felt SO "at home" as we did the line dances, got goose-pimples as Arslan sang folk songs, Omas and Opas pointing at me and laughing as I tried to pick up the steps the MEN were doing... A GOOD TIME was had by all.

The FUNNIEST THING is that the invitation said 2pm. The thought that it meant CPT, JPT, IPT, APT DID occur to me but my punktlich Deutsch mentality got the better of me. LOL!!! Our beloved Bridal Pair made their entrance at 5:30!!! SO MUCH COMMUNICATION is non-verbal. It's more about our connexion as homo-sapiens. Wer WILL verstehen, versteht! Grammatik notwithstanding.

[Mairead]

129. Perhaps you should think through your premises again? :-)

Any lack of understanding is not made worse by the disparity in languages.

[Karenina]

136. Ich bin AHNUNGSLOS

tryin' ta figger out WHAT you're on about! :shrug: It has been my experience in every place I've travelled that enthusiasm and a willingness to learn opens doors into gem-filled rooms...

[UdoKier]

77. I support people learning foreign languages as a form of enrichment.

But I see no reason why Spanish should be promoted over other languages. English is the dominant language, and English proficiency should be a a goal for all who choose to live here. When I went to live in Japan, I didn't demand that the locals bend over backwards to speak English for me. I learned the language.

I think the amount of Spanish on signage, forms, etc. at present is quite sufficient. There are TONS of Spanish channels on my TV, so I see no need for any increase. There are at least a dozen Spanish channels on our cable, but there is only ONE 24-hour Japanese channel, and we had to get a dish and pay $30/month - FOR ONE CHANNEL! (Oh , and there is like a 3 hour block of Japanese programming on the "international" channel on Saturdays and Sundays. All the forms here in SF are in Spanish, Arabic, Farsi, Mandarin, but NEVER in Japanese. If anything, the amount of expression in other languages gets shortchanged in favor of Spanish .


But by the same token, I hate white Americans who get annoyed at "foreigners" chattering in their own native tongue. Don't expect two people from Poland to speak in English to each other just because you happen to be in earshot. It's unnatural to speak to another person from your home country in a foreign tongue.

[LSdemocrat]

78. A second language should be mandatory but also fluent English

No one should graduate high school in the US without having fluent English.

I do also agree we should start teaching other languages in elementary school.

[cobaindrain]

79. it should be optional for american born, english speaking students

[cire4]

81. I think that would prolong the problem...

Making it optional would discourage students from learning another language. We should be encouraging our youth to at least try to learn a foreign language, not only for academic enrichment and personal benefits, but for the future career and professional benefits, as well.

To me, a knowledge of a foreign language is as essential to an education as knowledge of American history....

[cobaindrain]

86. no, it's only a burden

and an unnecessary burden as well.

our kids need more MATH! not more Spanish.

[ultraist]

91. I disagree. Most Universities have second language requirements

for all degrees. Providing more language courses earlier on to students, would help them prepare for college requirements.

Moreover, we already LACK in the arts/music/culture area in our public schools. Language courses are a very effective way to open the door to multicultural studies. I've never had a Spanish course where we did not look at other cultural elements (art, music, food, etc)

We need to expose our children to more culture, not less. Ethnocentric Americans are not going to be well prepared to operate in the real world. We need to broaden our students' horizons.

[Karenina]

93. Monolingual, eh?

Did it ever occur to you that if kids communicate in several languages, they'd be able to "do the REAL math?" :evilgrin:

[Bridget Burke]

94. I work with professionals from many countries....

Most of them know several languages besides English. And they tend to have multiple scientific degrees. Nobody told them to choose between languages & math. They did it all.

[Lydia Leftcoast]

104. I used to have pen pals from Europe

Most of them were taking two foreign languages AND math AND biology AND chemistry AND physics by the time they were sixteen.

Japanese people study six years of English and are about two years ahead of Americans in math. In Japan, all high school students are expected to study calculus, unless they're at a specifically vocational school.

The trouble with high schools here is idiotic parents who elect idiotic school boards who think that the only purposes of high school are athletics, reinforcing the social pecking order, and keeping teenagers off the street during the day.

Other countries prove that you can teach math and science and a couple of foreign languages to teenagers and have them survive with their social skills intact.

[Cleita]

82. I'm bilingual in Spanish and English myself and I wish

I had learned many more languages fluently. I think you miss so much in understanding other cultures as well as their literature if you don't know the language. When I was in college, I always admired the exchange students, especially from around the Meditteranean who grew up speaking three to four languages fluently and as a matter of course.

[Skidmore]

88. Why limit it to Spanish and English?

Why not include as many other languages as possible for young people to choose from?

[UdoKier]

89. Yep. nt

nt

[rene moon]

90. Yes! YES!

I wish I was bilingual. My parents are Mexican-American and they both speak Spanish. Bu they chose not to teach their children Spanish because of the racism they dealt with as children in AZ and CA.

They didnt want to see us suffer like they did---though not knowing Spanish and growing up in S. AZ had been hard.

So, I say yes---I support bilingualism.

[democrat_patriot]

95. I live in Phoenix - it's already bilingual

I support teaching languages in school. I don't support forcing all signs etc to be in another language. I would assume anyone moving/migrating to another country to learn that language. I would not move to Germany and expect to have everything in English.

[ermoore]

97. No.

The best thing to do is to force the US's Spanish speakers to learn English. I understand first generation immigrants aren't likely to pick much up, but it's important for their children to be able to speak English. It's not about being culturally insensitive or what-the-F-ever. It's about them having opportunities to do more than cheap labor. Face it, if you're going to have any chance to get a quality education you have to speak English. If you want to have a decent job you pretty much have to speak English. That's just how it is and it ain't gonna change no matter how many public schools teach Espanol or public buildings have bilingual signs.

[Karenina]

103. WHOOMP!

Dey it is!!!!

The post to which I reply is the "poster child" of American IGNORANCE of language developement.

Kids are SPONGES. They CAN do it all, given an environment that encourages them to do so. There is NO DOWN SIDE to being multi-lingual.

[ermoore]

107. Misunderstanding.

I got no problem with learning multiple languages (well, actually I'm completely inept at it, but in theory it's cool). I think that's a great idea. I was posting about kids who are born Spanish-speaking, for whom English would be a second-language. I know there, at least, used to be schools (I think in California) that just taught in Spanish. That's what seems to me to be a bad idea. My high school (obviously) spoke English with French and Spanish classes, but very, very rare are those who actually learned enough French and Spanish to do anything worthwhile.

[Swamp Rat]

112. Zwei "WHOOMP!"

Dort ist es! :D

Can we say ignorance cubed? Why do Americans, with all the technology and access to information, willfully remain in ignorance? Is it because we already have a cottage industry selling bumperstickers and plastic flags that say, "I'm a dumb-ass conservative redneck and proud of it?"

We should rename our capital to "Washington C.D.," or perhaps "W.C.D." for "Willful Cognitive Dissonance..." or, the acronym could stand for "Whiteous Cognitive Dissonance." :D

[ck4829]

99. Many countries speak more than one language

Some RW'ers want to restrict language, I have a feeling that is the 15th sign of Fascism.

[Jack_DeLeon]

102. There is no offical language in the US....

I'm against laws that make bilingualism like in Canada mandatory, however I would have no problem if someday the majority of the US spoke spanish or whatever.

[Vladimir]

106. Of course

and why stop at Spanish? The more languages kids learn, the better for them. At what age this should be taught is a different debate, but surely it can't hurt anyone to learn 2-3 foreign languages during the course of their childhood/teens? And then you could leave it to municipalities to deal with signs, TV etc. depending on their own ethinc makup. In Vienna on a tram you can read instructions on the ticket machines in Serbian, German, English and I think Turkish, for example - admittedly Austria doesn't take things much further than that, but the principle seems to me sound.

[Lydia Leftcoast]

133. Even in Japan, you can see more and more public information

available not only in English but also in Chinese, Korean, and Portuguese (due to all the Japanese Brazilians who are going to their ancestral country).

[semillama]

108. I hired two folks from different countries for temp jobs

on my archaeological field crew. one is polish, the other from Cameroon. Besides english, between them they speak Italian, Polish, German, Russian, French, Pidgin English, Latin, and Northwest Bantu.

So, yeah. Bilingualism is a START.

Me, I wish I had Spanish immersion when I was a kid - would've come in much handier last year in Mexico than my phrase book and trying to remember stuff from my year of spanish in college 10 years ago!

[musette_sf]

109. No.

I think schoolkids should definitely have more education in foreign languages. I think knowing another language is a good thing. But increasing education in Spanish, at the expense of other languages, will lead to more immigrants who will have little motivation to learn to be competent in English.

Spanish in schools as a foreign language is okay with me, as is any other language. But becoming a English/Spanish bilingual society is not okay with me. It will encourage the establishment and growth of an underclass that is not competent in English.

I am first generation American (not of Hispanic origin) and believe that those who come to America should learn English. As a good progressive person, I do not understand why many progressives disagree with this.

[NYdemocrat089]

113. Yes

I also think that foreign languages should be taught at a much younger age. I know in my school we started Spanish or French (Spanish in my case) in 7th grade. I wish we had had the opportunity to start at a younger age. I think I would have been more enthusiastic at a younger age to learn.

[Mairead]

126. The earlier the better. Preschool would not be too early

Kids could easily learn 5, possibly 7 or even 9 languages to a high standard by the time puberty robs them of the ability. But they'd have to start at pre-school age.

[AP]

114. Here's a good reason to support bilingualism:

http://www.ipev.org/~kress/vid/Fucking_Funny_Swedish_Commercial.mov

[Stop_the_War]

116. wow

that is really funny. was that a mistake the advertisers made or was it intentional?

[rinsd]

117. But isn't that more regional.....

The vast majority of Spanish speaking people live in 6 states, CA, AZ, TX, FL, NY & NJ.

I would be happier if we had more foreign language training in our schools. I think I got 5 years of German and I took that well beyond what was required.

[ultraist]

124. It's more global

Most Europeans also speak Spanish. Our children need to be prepared for a Global community. Many predict that Spanish will become the world's second language.

Most widely spoken languages
Language Approx. number
of speakers
1. Chinese (Mandarin) 1,075,000,000
2. English 514,000,000
3. Hindustani 496,000,000
4. Spanish 425,000,000
5. Russian 275,000,000
6. Arabic 256,000,000
7. Bengali 215,000,000
8. Portuguese 194,000,000
9. Malay-Indonesian 176,000,000
10. French 129,000,000

[RedCloud]

118. Sí, entre más lenguas, mejor

id est: The more tongues the better (wrong thread?)

[deadparrot]

120. I voted yes.

My theory is, if you're living in the United States, you should be making a concentrated effort to learn/speak English, whether it's by taking classes, speaking it in public places, etc. However, I'm never opposed to education in a foreign language, no matter what it is. I would support a law requiring every child to take a foreign language class from nursery school through high school. Education never hurt anyone.

[Rann]

125. English and Swedish

[KamaAina]

128. E ola mau ka 'olelo Hawai'i!

the Hawaiian language lives forever...it's been official here since 1978.

Just today the Hawaiian language revival got in the paper:

http://starbulletin.com/2005/03/14/news/index7.html

"E heluhelu kakou," Nako'olani Warrington tells her third-graders -- let's read together.

But there's no need to translate at Ke Kula Kaipuni o Anuenue, a public immersion school where all instruction for the 350 students is in the Hawaiian language....

A 1983 survey estimated that only 1,500 people remained in Hawaii who could speak it, most of them elderly. Today there are probably 6,000 to 8,000 Hawaiian-language speakers throughout the state, most of them under the age of 30, said Kalena Silva, professor of Hawaiian studies at the University of Hawaii-Hilo....

Silva remembers that when he joined the UH-Hilo faculty 20 years ago, only 10 students were majoring in Hawaiian studies and Hawaiian language. Now there are more than 100, he said, including some from the mainland and from Germany and Japan. Hawaiian language enrollment also has increased at UH-Manoa.

Maika'i no! (Very fine, indeed!)

[Stop_the_War]

131. That is cool

I would love to see Hawai'i become bilingual.

[rucky]

132. other: "Si!"

I'm an ESL teacher and, well, here's a slice of my world:

My kids are in a class where I must teach them English (the language), English (reading, lit & grammar to state standards), and Social Studies to state standards of all three grade levels (6,7,8). This is in a two-hour block period daily. My class is about half Hispanic and half Vietnamese. The Hispanic kids have various levels of ability with the English language - so when I try to teach content (in English), about half the kids don't understand. I bring that down to about a quarter when I slow down and explain things another way. Meanwhile the kids who do get it have to move so slowly there is no way I can teach them what the State requires in the school year (without completely losing the rest of the class). As a result, pretty much nobody meets the benchmark. As for the rest of the class, if they don't get something, I can't always tell if its because of language or content.

If we had history in Spanish language, at least these kids would have a fighting chance at showing their true abilities. Instead, they're thrown into a system that has them set up to fail.

[Karenina]

135. ...a system that has them set up to fail.

YOU have hit the nail on the head!